399 replies to this topic

[ensoriki]

Wrong move as I see it.
Why not just add an "infusement" slot? Or hell even an infusement title kind of like Lightbringer in GW1?
They had plenty of ways to get their grind/gold sinks/whatever without turning Exotic armor into tier 2 in terms of effectiveness.

Casually speaking, Exotic armor itself was fairly expensive. Having to do it all again really grinds my gears.
Was expecting title grind, not this. If anything I'd like a nice 10 day window to convert your max stat exotics to ascended...seriously.

Edited by ensoriki, 13 November 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[Naevius]

Frankly, infusion against Spectral Agony sucked in GW1 - you absolutely needed it in certain missions, but it meant nothing in the majority of cases.

If they do introduce it, the 'infusion' should be swappable.

[Zedabi]

Can't say I'm terribly impressed, but there's still a few things I think they should clarify:

1) Will Ascended armour be upgradable with Runes? If not, then the minor boost in stats is somewhat understandable (Given that Runes also provide stat increases, an overall boost in stats makes it more like the Triforge Pendant: Increase in stats across the board, but not higher than specialised gear). In which case, Exotics may still be better because the runes also provide additional effects that Ascended gear won't (i.e. Increased boon duration, increased specific condition damage).

2) Will Infusions act like Runes in the sense that they provide specific stat upgrades and bonuses for a set, or will they be specifically for the Agony / FotM mechanic? I.E. If you're affected by Agony, you gain a boon / increase in power / reduced damage ect.

3) Will Ascended gear be guaranteed, random drops or require multiple play-through to get? If the gear will be guaranteed, therefore progression being guaranteed, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with this, providing I don't have to repeat content to get it. If I have to repeat content with no guarantee of progression, I'd have a problem with that.

4) How will the personal difficulty thing work? For example, someone who has just started wouldn't be able to group with people that are on level 20 difficulty, because of the need for the Ascended armour against the Agony mechanic.

[omar316]

Still don't see why this much whining for a minor stat increase.
Just because he has a +10% stat increase over mine does not mean he is going to win in any case.
So many factors involved which negates the whole 10%.
Traits, gear type and abilities paired with the player himself.

Fan boys, take a deep breath, and exhale all kinds of nonsense from your thoughts.
No one is going to be built the same. In fact extra gear only adds to the diversity.

There are still people who roam around WvW in greens and zerg their ass off. There is absolutely no way in hell can there be equality in WvW. The game is not built for WvW balance. If you want to play balanced PvP go into the sPvP lobby. Even then it is not balanced.

Again no one is being forced obtain such gear. You can still play without such gear. Why? Because there is no way in hell can there be a single instance of time a zerg of 50 are all in acended gear.

We're already bleeding players. And all these complaints about WvW being affected, its not like siege weapon has gone acended.
Acended Ram, now that WvW game breaking.

[Lordkrall]

Zedabi, on 13 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Can't say I'm terribly impressed, but there's still a few things I think they should clarify:

1) Will Ascended armour be upgradable with Runes? If not, then the minor boost in stats is somewhat understandable (Given that Runes also provide stat increases, an overall boost in stats makes it more like the Triforge Pendant: Increase in stats across the board, but not higher than specialised gear). In which case, Exotics may still be better because the runes also provide additional effects that Ascended gear won't (i.e. Increased boon duration, increased specific condition damage).

2) Will Infusions act like Runes in the sense that they provide specific stat upgrades and bonuses for a set, or will they be specifically for the Agony / FotM mechanic? I.E. If you're affected by Agony, you gain a boon / increase in power / reduced damage ect.

3) Will Ascended gear be guaranteed, random drops or require multiple play-through to get? If the gear will be guaranteed, therefore progression being guaranteed, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with this, providing I don't have to repeat content to get it. If I have to repeat content with no guarantee of progression, I'd have a problem with that.

4) How will the personal difficulty thing work? For example, someone who has just started wouldn't be able to group with people that are on level 20 difficulty, because of the need for the Ascended armour against the Agony mechanic.

1) It won't

2) Sounds like it will be Agony-specfic

3) No idea, possible the same was as the current system with tokens.

4) That is something that I would like to know as well.

[Dove]

Treadmills don't have to move fast to be treadmills, you know. Let's call a duck a duck here.

[AJBeast]

So, not only has Anet taken the first step down a particularly slippery slope, one that some (me included) would say goes against their own manifesto, but they've done so while implementing the spiritual successor of one of the crappiest, most annoying mechanics from Prophecies.
I feel a bit betrayed ...

Edited by AJBeast, 13 November 2012 - 03:28 PM.

[Mordachai1977]

Shinimas, on 13 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

Except that if you don't have Ascended gear you will be gibbed by Agony.

It will be harder , sure. But since they are adding the dungeon on the weekend of the 16th and they are not adding any ascended armors/weapons/gear yet apart from 2 accesoiries which only drop in said dungeon, it would be safe to assume that the fractals dungeon is manageable without it, at least to some extent.

Further more, what i got from the announcement is that the new Agony condition is only to be found in the new dungeon.


edit: From the announcement itself: "" In the upcoming Fractals of the Mists dungeon, we’ll introduce a new monster condition called Agony."

Edited by Mordachai1977, 13 November 2012 - 03:32 PM.

[Coren]

Azure Skye, on 13 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Quoted from the truth, how many tier did they add after that? NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When was this, so i can go in the other guru to look at the posts from back then.

Do remember that greens had the same stats as max stat golds, not more powerful thangolds.

[Lordkrall]

Coren, on 13 November 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Do remember that greens had the same stats as max stat golds, not more powerful thangolds.

And yet they had unique sets of stats and was always max.
Getting maxed items with the right stat-set was rather hard during that part of GWs life.

[Whoops]

I’ve seen a lot of arguments why raising stats on a new tier is bad.

I’ve seen some arguments that the stat increase is negligible, so there is no need to worry…

However, I haven’t seen any arguments yet as to why stat increase is good/necessary (at least from a players perspective)?

Maybe someone could argue the upside/benefit of a-net adding increasing the stat budget on this new tier?

[Zedabi]

Whoops, on 13 November 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

I’ve seen a lot of arguments why raising stats on a new tier is bad.

I’ve seen some arguments that the stat increase is negligible, so there is no need to worry…

However, I haven’t seen any arguments yet as to why stat increase is good/necessary (at least from a players perspective)?

Maybe someone could argue the upside/benefit of a-net adding increasing the stat budget on this new tier?

The only reason I could see it being a good thing is if Ascended armour 1) can't be upgraded with Runes, and 2) don't have the stat upgrades + bonuses from Runes put in them.

Raising the stats is then counter-acting that you can't upgrade stats through Runes. Albeit, this depends entirely on how Infusions work.

[Coren]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

And yet they had unique sets of stats and was always max.
Getting maxed items with the right stat-set was rather hard during that part of GWs life.

Precisely my point. Green items were implemented to make it easier to get max damage items, but the stats themselves weren't different from a collector blue with the right add-ons.

[KillSlash]

Whoops, on 13 November 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

I’ve seen a lot of arguments why raising stats on a new tier is bad.

I’ve seen some arguments that the stat increase is negligible, so there is no need to worry…

However, I haven’t seen any arguments yet as to why stat increase is good/necessary (at least from a players perspective)?

Maybe someone could argue the upside/benefit of a-net adding increasing the stat budget on this new tier?

Only thing that comes to mind is it give a new character-power thing to work towards. Some people like that

[Mordachai1977]

I really could care less about the whole "stat-issue". Heck, most of my level 80's dont even have exotic yet even though i got the gold for it, the difference is hardly felt. I will just continue to have fun, crying about a 1-2% increase in stats is ridiculous... really.

Anet comes along and drops a crapload of new (and free) content in your laps and all people can do is focus whatever they can find to complain about. For months the same crowd has been creating threads about how there isnt anything to do at endgame, how they want new content..etc etc. Now there is new content and its not good enough.

Edited by Mordachai1977, 13 November 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[Astalnar]

Just so, I can finally say I told you so, here is the next quote:

Quote

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

You remember all those times approximately a year ago when some of you, you know who you are, were so vehemently and ardently defending Arenanet and their jibber-jabber about end game starting at level one.

[Coren]

Astalnar, on 13 November 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Just so, I can finally say I told you so, here is the next quote:



You remember all those times approximately a year ago when some of you, you know who you are, were so vehemently and ardently defending Arenanet and their jibber-jabber about end game starting at level one.

Not ashamed to say it, I was one of them. I took ANet's word at face value. I may be pleasantly surprised by the new ascended stuff, if the lack of runes balances them with exotic.

Two lessons I'll bring back with me: 1) wait and see. 2) don't believe talk from game developer's until it's been physically backed up by deeds.

[Roland Der Meister]

Faowri, on 13 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Oh my god, I never even thought of that :\ I would ragequit right there.

They can just transfer the skin back onto a ascended weapon cause when ascended weapons come that's when legendarys get there upgrade

[ToySoldier]

omar316, on 13 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

We're already bleeding players.

This move does give off a scent like ANet is trying to deal with bleeding.

Reminds me of when Lotro forum kept trying to close GW2 threads.  Right there I sensed their revenue must have been dropping and they were worried about GW2 siphoning more lotro players away.  Their strange, and unreasonable move in the deletions of GW2 threads made me quit Lotro.  I have not been back to it since.  Did not surprise me they had a layoff recently.

Making the wrong move when a game is already bleeding can end up deadly for the game.

[G L J]

Coren, on 13 November 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Not ashamed to say it, I was one of them. I took ANet's word at face value. I may be pleasantly surprised by the new ascended stuff, if the lack of runes balances them with exotic.

We don't know that they'll have a lack of rune. It was only mentioned as pure speculation. For all we know, they could very well allow runes.

[adra12]

Mordachai1977, on 13 November 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I really could care less about the whole "stat-issue". Heck, most of my level 80's dont even have exotic yet even though i got the gold for it, the difference is hardly felt. I will just continue to have fun, crying about a 1-2% increase in stats is ridiculous... really.

Anet comes along and drops a crapload of new (and free) content in your laps and all people can do is focus whatever they can find to complain about. For months the same crowd has been creating threads about how there isnt anything to do at endgame, how they want new content..etc etc. Now there is new content and its not good enough.

At what % is it not ridiculous? Have you rolled a level 10 in WvW and tried to kill a level 80? Stats do play a role and for ANet to say you could build an character equal character without ever having to kill a mob in the PvE world and then introduce items with higher stats only available from a dungeon completely goes back on one of the main principals of their Manifesto, because that model equates to play more = win more.

I for one will be doing the dungeon because it will be fun, but for ANet to appear to go back on one of their main principals behind this game just feels like a sucker punch.

[BandwagonX9000]

Var, on 13 November 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

This isn't small.

Even if we take the +77, not only +77 isn't small, but next update on "gear progression" will be, what, +100? +125? +155? Because there will be a next one, be assured of that. As a wvwer I find this pve threadmill as disgusting as the cash shop armor/speed/regen boosts working in wvw.

Edited by BandwagonX9000, 13 November 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[Shayne Hawke]

Dove, on 13 November 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Treadmills don't have to move fast to be treadmills, you know. Let's call a duck a duck here.

The leap from rare to exotic gear already feels like a treadmill to me, albeit a light one, and more importantly, an optional one, as no content in the game currently requires a certain level of gear or upgrades to be completed.  I might change my mind later though if I figure out how to make money better than I am now.

The issue I have with ascended gear is that it's poised to be a necessary treadmill, forcing you to obtain the gear and spec into certain upgrades in order to have any hope of completing certain content.

Edited by Shayne Hawke, 13 November 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[Firstborn12]

Whoops, on 13 November 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

I’ve seen a lot of arguments why raising stats on a new tier is bad.

I’ve seen some arguments that the stat increase is negligible, so there is no need to worry…

However, I haven’t seen any arguments yet as to why stat increase is good/necessary (at least from a players perspective)?

Maybe someone could argue the upside/benefit of a-net adding increasing the stat budget on this new tier?

the only reason I see behind adding a new tier is to give people something to actually work towards once they reached level 80.  if they just offered new, stylish armor & weapons skins, that would be great, but nothing really special, I see lot of cool weapons like Foefire, Vision of the Mist & Volcanus just to name a few, but I wont be getting them since they are not any different from my Mystic Claymore(dont get me wrong Im greatful for more gear skins that are comming). Its just adding a higher Tier gives people (some at least) something to actually do other than upgrade their fashion.

[tatsuo]

Ok this is bullcrap. Here we go again. Is this Anet that boasted about innovation? But they started doing just like the rest of old mmos did. More carrot on a stick..

[EagleDelta1]

G L J, on 13 November 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

We don't know that they'll have a lack of rune. It was only mentioned as pure speculation. For all we know, they could very well allow runes.

Actually, we do.  The article says that the upgrade component is removed for ascended gear and those "upgrades" are built into the gear.  At start there will only be infusion slots for gear.  No runes, gems, doubloons, etc in the ascended gear

[Azure Skye]

If they add another tier of weapons/armor then this is gear treadmill. If not, its just like greens came out in GW1.

[G L J]

EagleDelta1, on 13 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Actually, we do.  The article says that the upgrade component is removed for ascended gear and those "upgrades" are built into the gear.  At start there will only be infusion slots for gear.  No runes, gems, doubloons, etc in the ascended gear

And yet the ring carries the stats of the gem already inside of it. The armor could very well contain the runes inside it as well, albeit unmodifiable.

[xLOKIx0830]

Whoops, on 13 November 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

I’ve seen a lot of arguments why raising stats on a new tier is bad.

I’ve seen some arguments that the stat increase is negligible, so there is no need to worry…

However, I haven’t seen any arguments yet as to why stat increase is good/necessary (at least from a players perspective)?

Maybe someone could argue the upside/benefit of a-net adding increasing the stat budget on this new tier?

Why is no one complaining about exotics having better stats than rares? Because exotics were already in the game at launch. I'm willing to bet people wouldn't think twice about ascended armor if it was in game at launch. All this boils down to is people not liking that they have to put in more effort than what they have already to get max stats.

People are complaining and claiming that with this update gw2 will become a gear-grind like WoW, and yet this is nowhere near true. People are just complaining because they can. There is no indication that anet will introduce higher tiers than ascended, and so to assume that they will is absurd.

The reasons why they added higher stats and not just infusion slots to exotics or rares is because people wanted some form of progression between exotics and legendaries. So anet makes content for those people, and now everyone is upset and butthurt. People are always going to complain if they can, there's no use trying to justify it.

[Manzana]

Scumbag community.

"Erhmahgerd there isn't enough to do after you hit 80."
*Anet adds new content*
"Whiiiiiine."

"Erhmahgerd, getting Legendaries is so impossible and dumb.  I hit the wall, and I don't even want them anymore!"
*Anet adds a gear level to bridge the gap between exotics and Legendaries*
"Whiiiiine"

Now, what would be serious power creep is if Anet added a tier above Legendaries.

Edited by Manzana, 13 November 2012 - 04:37 PM.