399 replies to this topic

[G L J]

Manzana, on 13 November 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Scumbag community.

The people complaining about the gear grind aren't the same people complaining about the lack thereof.

[Ckris]

Personally, I'd be fine with this if Ascended tier gear is available by the same means as exotics; through dungeons, crafting, karma vendors, badges, etc. Of course they should require more resources than exotics to acquire. I think most people would be fine with that.

Imo the issue is being forced to play a certain aspect of the game you may not have an interest in. I completely enjoy dungeons, but I don't like the idea of running them being made a necessity in order to get the top tier gear. That was a design feature that was supposed to set gw2 apart from the rest of the genre.

[Kuruptz2]

i think they should just add a new Infusion slot to all Exotic gear


but there is Alot of people overreacting

[Vexies]

Quote

The issue I have with ascended gear is that it's poised to be a necessary treadmill, forcing you to obtain the gear and spec into certain upgrades in order to have any hope of completing certain content.

But you see.. for all the gnashing of teeth and butt hurt this is the durp in logic right there in print.

THERE IS NO COMPLETION  OF THIS DUNGEON.

They have already said that you get three random levels of the nine, once you beat it the difficulty goes up a notch and you get another set of three and so on.  You will be able to progress (in the same damn gear you have now) until a certain difficulty where the agony debuff steps in and makes it very hard to push further with out it.

the kicker to all this and the prime thing to remember ..

Even with a zillion infusion / agony debuff remover stat thing (what ever) you NEVER FINISH THE DUNGEON.  It just keeps recycling over and over

So yeah enough with the ZOMG I WONT SEEZ CONTENTS

[Coren]

Azure Skye, on 13 November 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

If they add another tier of weapons/armor then this is gear treadmill. If not, its just like greens came out in GW1.

It isn't at all, not in the slightest. Green items have the same stats as collector blue (blue being one step above white) with max upgrades. Exotics are the greens, ascended is one step higher, aka higher stats.

Edited by Coren, 13 November 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[Azure Skye]

Manzana, on 13 November 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Scumbag community.

"Erhmahgerd there isn't enough to do after you hit 80."
*Anet adds new content*
"Whiiiiiine."

"Erhmahgerd, getting Legendaries is so impossible and dumb.  I hit the wall, and I don't even want them anymore!"
*Anet adds a gear level to bridge the gap between exotics and Legendaries*
"Whiiiiine"

Now, what would be serious power creep is if Anet added a tier above Legendaries.

That i've seen. So far.   http://www.guildwars...ing-to-aim-for/ http://www.guildwars...gendary-weapon/ http://www.guildwars...gendary-weapon/

G L J, on 13 November 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

The people complaining about the gear grind aren't the same people complaining about the lack thereof.

Pretty much so.

Edited by Azure Skye, 13 November 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[Shayne Hawke]

Azure Skye, on 13 November 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

If they add another tier of weapons/armor then this is gear treadmill. If not, its just like greens came out in GW1.

Greens were released as best-in-slot gear at their time, which was on par with the max damage, max upgrade weapons that people could already make.  Ascended gear outright has better stats than exotics and is the only gear which can be infused, an upgrade that is likely to be necessary in order to complete certain content.  The comparison couldn't be farther off.

[DarkGhostGizmoXx]

Guess I'm the only one excited about new backslots...more backpacks or capes, yay!! Spread the positiveness!!!

[Graystone]

I was actually looking forward to legendary being a bit more accessible, looks like they are just going to keep throwing gimmicks at us until we forget or give up. Let's hope this dungeon drops two charged lodestones an hour, otherwise I'll be spending my time in Orr..

[Verity]

Do we know if the actual Infusions carry with them different bonuses? I've been working under the assumption that there are different varieties each of defensive/offensive/omni infusions, and that they have different stats/bonuses.

[MikeFish]

My main worry is that we're only 3 and a bit months into the game and already stuff is becoming useless. If this pattern continues slow players (like me) will have to spend all their time just trying to keep up with the new things. Getting exotic jewellry was a considerable haul for me and now I need to replace... I was hoping to enjoy having max stats for quite a bit longer.

Not to mention now crafting will become useless and I'm forced to do one particular dungeon... oh and that removing jewels from accessories is removing build choice from the game...

Did anyone else assume they would only be adding asthetic and fun content for a long long time? Because I did.

Edited by MikeFish, 13 November 2012 - 05:04 PM.

[Coren]

Shayne Hawke, on 13 November 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Greens were released as best-in-slot gear at their time, which was on par with the max damage, max upgrade weapons that people could already make.  Ascended gear outright has better stats than exotics and is the only gear which can be infused, an upgrade that is likely to be necessary in order to complete certain content.  The comparison couldn't be farther off.

Pretty much what I told azure a few times, but I think he/she hopes by saying it more often the reality if it may be ignored and forgotten.

[Shayne Hawke]

Coren, on 13 November 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Pretty much what I told azure a few times, but I think he/she hopes by saying it more often the reality if it may be ignored and forgotten.

Like how if ANet tells us that their new design philosophy was the one they always held dear, we might forget about their original manifesto?

I went there.

[Roland Der Meister]

If the new gear is only obtainable via dungeons then i will be disopointed other then that i dont mind them adding new gear guess i will just have to bite the bullet and work on getting the gear as soon as lost shores goes live.

Edited by Roland Der Meister, 13 November 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Azure Skye]

Shayne Hawke, on 13 November 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Greens were released as best-in-slot gear at their time, which was on par with the max damage, max upgrade weapons that people could already make.  Ascended gear outright has better stats than exotics and is the only gear which can be infused, an upgrade that is likely to be necessary in order to complete certain content.  The comparison couldn't be farther off.

If you look in the history of guild wars. We were still in the begining stages of the game when the green dropped in GW1. We dont know much about it since it only bridges the gap from Exotics and Legendaries.  http://www.guildwars...76.html?t=57776 No, I'm not think with GW1 mindset and yes, i've played it, GW2 is different game and be treated so.

Edited by Azure Skye, 13 November 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[Alex Dimitri]

If i understood correctly again one part we need to obtain via Mystic Forge ?!?

Why Anet, just why do you push people playing that awful lottery with Mystic Forge ? ? ?

[Verity]

Alex Dimitri, on 13 November 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

If i understood correctly again one part we need to obtain via Mystic Forge ?!?

Why Anet, just why do you push people playing that awful lottery with Mystic Forge ? ? ?

Who said it's going to be a random reward from the Forge? It could very well be a set recipe.

[ToySoldier]

If anything, ANet should have padded the legendary gear path with more interesting events than mystic forge gamble.  It would have provided a better sense of progression.

And if there is a problem with bleeding players, it might have helped that without rocking the boat.

Edited by ToySoldier, 13 November 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[Azure Skye]

ToySoldier, on 13 November 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

If anything, ANet should have padded the legendary gear path with more interesting events than mystic forge gamble.  It would have provided a better sense of progression.

Isn't that what they are trying to do with Ascended.  Didn't they say they are adding more legendary with more a scavenger hunt feel to them rather then playing with the mystic forge.

[ToySoldier]

Azure Skye, on 13 November 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Isn't that what they are trying to do with Ascended.  Didn't they say they are adding more legendary with more a scavenger hunt feel to them rather then playing with the mystic forge.

"Events" could have been built into a new personal-story-like quest line in Lost Shore, and bill it as a way to circumvent the forge gamble. I bet ya more players will happily return if they had left.  Now players like me may leave when the next casual friendly game comes out.

Edit add: To clarify more.  Think "heart NPC" in various spots of Lost Shore, and have those legendary heart NPC's reward be bits of scrap/token/item toward legendary.

Edited by ToySoldier, 13 November 2012 - 05:41 PM.

[Lol Lol Lol Guy]

For the most part since the games launch, I've understood complaints people have made against the game (may not have agreed with all of them but i understood it.) but for the first time, I'm begging the community to shut the hell up and be thankful we get more stuff. You guys are literally the most unappreciative fanbase I've ever seen.

WTB Gw1 community back

[ToySoldier]

Lol Lol Lol Guy, on 13 November 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

For the most part since the games launch, I've understood complaints people have made against the game (may not have agreed with all of them but i understood it.) but for the first time, I'm begging the community to shut the hell up and be thankful we get more stuff. You guys are literally the most unappreciative fanbase I've ever seen.

WTB Gw1 community back

I was very happy and thankful till my recently acquired exotic gear, the supposed top stat gear, is pronounced to be obsolete.  This means to me: Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.     Sorry we can't smile more for you here.  You have no idea how we are in person.  In fact, I'm told I'm the nicest person, and "too nice".

[Doctor Overlord]

I guess how I feel about infusions will be how much content is being gated by it.

Vexies, on 13 November 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

They have already said that you get three random levels of the nine, once you beat it the difficulty goes up a notch and you get another set of three and so on.  You will be able to progress (in the same damn gear you have now) until a certain difficulty where the agony debuff steps in and makes it very hard to push further with out it.

That is a very good point.  Everyone should be able to experience the dungeon content but it will be at the lower difficulty levels.    

Interesting, this sounds like it's another one of those experimental ideas of theirs.   So far they've been working out pretty well.    If this one works it might become a standard like how dynamic content seems to be popping up in the talk of upcoming MMOs.  

What I really wonder is whether ArenaNet planned this from the beginning and if they're implementing it sooner because people tore through content so quickly

Edited by Doctor Overlord, 13 November 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[Var]

I'd just like to know why the gear needed better stats at all... why couldn't it be gear+best-in-slot baked into one? Why did they need to add a 28% statistical increase? Just keep it to exotic level, but call it ascended because its *upgraded already* and *comes with an infusion slot*.

[Shayne Hawke]

Azure Skye, on 13 November 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

If you look in the history of guild wars. We were still in the begining stages of the game when the green dropped in GW1. We dont know much about it since it only bridges the gap from Exotics and Legendaries.  http://www.guildwars...76.html?t=57776 No, I'm not think with GW1 mindset and yes, i've played it, GW2 is different game and be treated so.

Just because both games released a new type of gear early in each of their life cycles does not mean that both of those types of gear function the same way, as you have put it.

The gap betwen exotics and legendaries is better described as the gap between best-in-slot gear and legendaries.  This gap does not change with the introduction of ascended armor, as that does not make it any easier to make your legendary.  You still need to gather the same components as before and put in the same effort to get there.  When players move up from exotic to ascended, they will hit the same "legendary wall" and feel the same lack of personal progression as they feel now.  The bridge of ascended gear between exotic and legendaries is simply a delay, another stepping stone for players to hop to that want to have best-in-slot gear, another mile on the treadmill, and something that I thought ANet had the sense to not introduce.

[Lordkrall]

Var, on 13 November 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

I'd just like to know why the gear needed better stats at all... why couldn't it be gear+best-in-slot baked into one? Why did they need to add a 28% statistical increase? Just keep it to exotic level, but call it ascended because its *upgraded already* and *comes with an infusion slot*.

28%???????

Now my math is not good but I can't get +7 stats from a level 80 ring to be 28% increase.

[Manzana]

ToySoldier, on 13 November 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

I was very happy and thankful till my recently acquired exotic gear, the supposed top stat gear, is pronounced to be obsolete.  This means to me: Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.     Sorry we can't smile more for you here.  You have no idea how we are in person.  In fact, I'm told I'm the nicest person, and "too nice".

Apparently, you're not the most modest person.  Yes, having max stat gear is nice, but only at first.  By the second or third year of playing GW1, I could make a new character and have the most expensive armor within hours of choosing my name because the requirements to do so were trivial after you had played for a while.  So, while it's bad to have incessant power creep, having slight increases in power over time is not necessarily a bad thing.

Likewise, your gear was never what made you obsolete in GW2, it was your grasp of mechanics and gameplay.  I don't care if you have the greatest gear in the world, you're not going to survive for very long against Subject Alpha in the Crucible of Eternity if you don't know when to dodge, when to clump, and when not to clump.  I've been running that dungeon with greens, and I rarely get defeated more than once or twice.  Does that mean my gear made all the difference?  Nope, it just means I've grinded my nose for so long against that wall that I know what to expect from that dungeon.

Edited by Manzana, 13 November 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[Var]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

28%???????

Now my math is not good but I can't get +7 stats from a level 80 ring to be 28% increase.

Because its not +7.

Let me quote someone else's work for the numbers:

Quote

As of right now, the one slot that is comparable is a ring slot item. Draw your own conclusions, I just want to put out numbers since people keep quoting bizare values like “+2” or “8%” without really saying where it comes from.
Ascended Ring:
68 Precision
68 Power
10% Magic Find
Opal Orichalcum Ring of the Explorer:
http://wiki.guildwar...of_the_Explorer
63 Precision
63 Power
7% Magic Find
On the surface we see a 3% Magic Find boost, and 5/5 boost on the minor stats of Power and Precision.
Depending on how you look at this stat increase, whether compared at the jewel level or at the actual item level, the stat increase per % magic find is actually quite large. Let’s look at the next ring with both Prec/Power/%.
Ruby Orichlacum Ring of the Berserker:
http://wiki.guildwar...f_the_Berserker
92 Power
63 Precision
6% Critical Damage
Coral Orichalcum Ring of the Rampager:
http://wiki.guildwar...of_the_Rampager
92 Precision
63 Power
63 Condition Damage
That is to say, 1% of MF (as the magor trait) can be argued in equivalency to 29 power. Or, when compared to purely stat gear, 7% of Magic Find is the equivalent of 92 stats. That is 13.15 stat/% trade off. Or, if you just want to compare basic stats on jewels:
Exquisite Opal:
http://wiki.guildwar...site_Opal_Jewel
4% Magic Find
15 Power
15 Precision
Exquisite Ruby:
25 Power
15 Precision
3% Critical Damage
Exquisite Coral:
http://wiki.guildwar...ite_Coral_Jewel
25 Precision
15 Power
15 Condition Damage
That is to say that, when we compare the % based stats, you have a rough estimate of a trade-off of around +10 stat/% but when comparing % to non-% items, you have a trade off of about +6 stat/% (this arises because Crit Damage scales even more sharply than Magic Find in how much of a stat you have to sacrifice to build up Crit Damage). The number differences become much larger on armor.
Of course, the problem all comes down to Magic Find having very bizarre scaling. Where it can range anywhere from +6 stat/% exchange in jewels to as large as +22 stat/% stats on armor. If you’re more interested in the numbers, I’d look here: http://wiki.guildwar..._Level_80_Items
Unfortunately it lacks Magic Find and Critical Damage scaling.
And in the end it all begs the question: Why did they show us the most hard to comprehend gear stat distribution? Why couldn’t they should the simplest as in: Rampager’s or Cleric’s?
Its hard to extrapolate just how much all gear will add, but just a single ring adds a lot more than “+2”. If we take the lowest denominator at +6 stat/% we’re placed at +18 stat on the ring from the Magic Find equivalent buff and then +10 total from the minor stats. That’s an increase of +28 stats overall for the ring. If we compared a whole ring (gem and all) in the set, with the high of +13 stat/%, we reach an increase in stats of about +49 overall for just the ring.
+49 stats on a ring is an increase of 18% in stats, total. (This is from: 1 – 218/267.)
+28 stats on a ring (our low ball) is an increase in 11% in stats total.
Have fun, and if I made a mistake let me know.

[boxterduke]

Just like we feared.

What they should have done, is just upgrade all current armors in the game with an infusion slot. Or just make it as simple as in GW1 where a line is added to say that this piece of armor is infused.

Wanna make it a 100 dungeon runs to get infused make it so. Wanna add recipes to the Mystic Crapper to get infusion upgrades so be it. but don't introduce a higher level gear even if it is just for these type of dungeons.

They have to make sure that if you are not in these dungeons and are in the normal world then the Ascended gear you are wearing drops its stats to match the exotic type similar to it.

[Manzana]

Shayne Hawke, on 13 November 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

The gap betwen exotics and legendaries is better described as the gap between best-in-slot gear and legendaries.  This gap does not change with the introduction of ascended armor, as that does not make it any easier to make your legendary.  You still need to gather the same components as before and put in the same effort to get there.  

I would make the argument using armor comparisons in GW1.  During Prophecies, the earliest you could get max stat armor was at Droknar's Forge, which was supposed to be relatively end-game content.  Imagine that after Lions Arch, after basically half the game, there were no more armor crafters.  You had to go through Maguuma and the desert using only what was available from LA.  Would it be hard?  Yes, but that's the same boat everyone would be in.  Now, lets say that in a patch, Anet added a crafter to the Henge of Denravi who made gear that was in between the stats for LA and Droknar's.  Is it better for those who haven't yet reached Droknars?  Yes.  Is it as good as the best available?  No.  Does getting the Henge armor get you any close to Droknar's armor?  Nope.  Does getting it give you another short term goal, and something else to do while you progress towards Droknar's?  Yep.

At no point in GW1 or GW2 did you need to have the best gear to enjoy content.  Did it make life simpler? Sure it did.  Were you prevented from playing the rest of the game if you didn't have the best of the best?  Never.  So, quite frankly, this entire thread is a duel of egos.  You don't need a Legendary, or Ascended, or even Exotic to play the game to the fullest.  Just because you want the best, which is a natural desire, doesn't mean that you are worthless without the best.  Until the point where I need Ascended gear to get Legendary gear, or the point where I need Legendary gear to get omgsuprlazorGODGEAR I'm not to worried.  If things turned out well, I saved myself a lot of stress.  If not, well, I can be a naysayer then.