399 replies to this topic

[sjaggy]

Hey Anet, thanks for letting me waste my money.  Bought a full ruby orichalcum accesory set (Necklace, rings and earrings) like a week ago and now you're bringing a better set..... Give me my 12g back?

Edited by sjaggy, 14 November 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[Zhahz]

Odd. I could've sworn one of the reasons I got into this game was because it wasn't going to have gear tiers and and endless loot carrot, and this person is saying they want to appeal to hardcore progression types, which wasn't any part of the original plan and manifesto (and apparent BS) that I bought into.

Basically, ANet is completely full of crap, which I guess should be no real surprise.  Thinking they might be different was probably just pretty stupid and naive.

[Majic]

Agony And Gloom

Shayne Hawke, on 13 November 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

[*]There will be a new monster condition called "Agony", which is where the new infusion slots come into play.
[*]Players must "infuse" to protect against this deadly new ailment.

This appears to be functionally identical to the LOTRO Radiance system, which was used to gate high-end dungeons. Without the necessary Radiance gear, some content was effectively unplayable, in the same way described by ArenaNet.

Replace the LOTRO term "Gloom" with "Agony", and there's no meaningful difference between them. Just as in LOTRO, gear is being used to gate high-end content and exclude players who don't have it.

Despite LOTRO being a game based heavily on grinding, in which level caps are periodically raised and players' expensive legendary items become obsolete in the process, Turbine abandoned the Radiance system a year and a half ago after realizing it was a huge mistake. Even players who had spent immense amounts of time grinding for Radiance gear were, by and large, happy to see the system removed. It has not been missed.

The use of special gear to exclude players from content runs in diametric opposition to the philosophies expressed by Eric Flannum and Colin Johanseon in this video. Then there's the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto:

Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto said:

So much of traditional MMO combat is rote and repetitive. You execute the same strategy over and over again, just augmented over time with better and better gear. After a while it starts to feel like you’re playing a spreadsheet.

Do tell.

After five years of playing LOTRO, which is very much a "traditional MMO", I left it all behind to play GW2 and consider GW2 to be superior in virtually every way. Yet here we are seeing a game feature being introduced which even a "traditional MMO" considered to be too much of a grind and a bad idea in the end.

It's like an unwanted, hand-me-down mechanic being shoehorned into an otherwise innovative and forward-thinking game. Did ArenaNet not know about this? Are they going to have to learn a lesson Turbine already learned the hard way well over a year before GW2 launched? Why are we only hearing about this now, from a company which purports to base so many key decisions on "player feedback"?

Why didn't they ask me?

I don't want to go back to LOTRO, and I really would rather ArenaNet not bring LOTRO back to me.

[ToySoldier]

Whoa Majic,(snip quote on your full post) love your post.  Well said!

AstralPhoenix777, on 14 November 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

Blue (fine) weapons and armour may be sufficient for lolling around PvE zones, even Orr, but if you come up against me wearing my exotic equipment, I have a full +25% armour rating over you, and my weapon does 25% more damage. You're dead meat; this is why gear-grinding is important, and shows how ANet really betrayed the more casual gamers (despite what their PR department spins).

Casual gamers are actually much better off playing the original Guild Wars, where you can reach level 20 and get max-stat gear within 20-30 hours easily...or can just buy into it with a PvP pack. By comparison, it took me 250 hours to get my full exotic equipment at level 80 in GW2. Sure, it can be done a lot quicker than that, but I was taking my time playing the game like I imagine most people do.

Thanks and well said!  This is why I worry about my WvW friend.  Hopefully zerg will help him survive.  I myself had bought exotic gear with trying out WvW in mind, but so far I haven't gone.  I'm just not competitive.  Having much more fun wandering around rezzing people haha.  Relaxing and leisurely for me.  WvW is a good ideal in my mind.  Wish I can join that fun and watch skilled people.

Zhahz, on 14 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Odd. I could've sworn one of the reasons I got into this game was because it wasn't going to have gear tiers and and endless loot carrot, and this person is saying they want to appeal to hardcore progression types, which wasn't any part of the original plan and manifesto (and apparent BS) that I bought into.

Basically, ANet is completely full of crap, which I guess should be no real surprise.  Thinking they might be different was probably just pretty stupid and naive.

Maybe ANet is not getting enough revenue.  In the end every game is a business.  They are obviously no longer in tune with a large segment of their intended customer base.  They started out with a passionate manifesto, and are now bending their own vision.  Kind of sad to watch.  I do like the people in ANet.  But they are not being considerate enough toward players who bought exotic gear in the last 2 months.  Players had invested in exotic thinking it would be their dream gear to enjoy for a long time.  This lack of consideration for their customer can end up alienating the customers.  I personally feel ANet's pain may lie in economy.  There are always demands for revenue.  Hope ANet will figure out how to do the right things to keep both their vision and revenue flowing.

I myself am a victim of this move, having just paid a chunk of gold for my exotic armor armor and weapons.  Won't be doing that again, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.  This kind of move can end up negatively impact ANet's revenue down the road.   I'm a bit concerned for them, but they are professionals. Their fate is in their own hands. Wishing them the best while protecting myself.  

[ToySoldier]

P.S.

Majic, on 14 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Agony And Gloom



This appears to be functionally identical to the LOTRO Radiance system, which was used to gate high-end dungeons. Without the necessary Radiance gear, some content was effectively unplayable, in the same way described by ArenaNet.

Great insight.  Thanks for bringing it up.  This is all going back to raid gear acquisition all over again.  In EQ it was resistance gear as gate for raid mobs, combined with superior stats.  Hehe the new gear coming indeed already reminds me of old Everquest raid gear.  Astounding to see we are back to EQ type of gear too.

[d_fens]

Majic, on 14 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Despite LOTRO being a game based heavily on grinding, in which level caps are periodically raised and players' expensive legendary items become obsolete in the process, Turbine abandoned the Radiance system a year and a half ago after realizing it was a huge mistake. Even players who had spent immense amounts of time grinding for Radiance gear were, by and large, happy to see the system removed. It has not been missed.

And yet they later introduced another mechanic called Finesse, which works in similar way, although not that severe. Looks like laziness is permanently settled in devs minds (being software developer myself I know that feeling ), no matter what game they are creating.

[Majic]

Sometimes You Need A Little

d_fens, on 14 November 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

And yet they later introduced another mechanic called Finesse, which works in similar way, although not that severe. Looks like laziness is permanently settled in devs minds (being software developer myself I know that feeling ), no matter what game they are creating.

Yeah, Finesse is basically "Radiance light", but at least you can play without it and not immovably cower in fear. You can also get gear with Finesse fairly easily in LOTRO without doing any raids at all, making it relatively meaningless as a gating mechanic.

My solo-only Hunter has loads of Finesse.

Yay him.

[Wikid]

I do not like the Agony condition as it will force players to the Ascended gear to delve into higher level content, I like the idea. I'm hoping that  "We also have plans to add more fun ways to acquire Legendary precursor items with a more “scavenger hunt” feel than they are acquired currently." is meant for all precursor items and not just the forge weapons. The Mystic Forge is very unnecessary and is so random that it makes the process frustrating and kills the fun. The complexity of creating Legendary weapons is so taxing that it loses all relevance for a large percent of the population especially if Ascended weapons are their equal in stats. I still wonder if they will introduce Legendary armor and accessories as I was under the impression that Legendary was higher than exotic. Now Ascended and Legendary are equal. I just hope the skins for Ascended armor are better than the ones for exotics. I haven't really found a single armor that I feel is a must have yet.

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

When did Guild Wars 2 become, Gear Wars 2?  I thought I stopped playing World of GearCraft.

THIS

Zhahz, on 14 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Odd. I could've sworn one of the reasons I got into this game was because it wasn't going to have gear tiers and and endless loot carrot, and this person is saying they want to appeal to hardcore progression types, which wasn't any part of the original plan and manifesto (and apparent BS) that I bought into.

Basically, ANet is completely full of crap, which I guess should be no real surprise.  Thinking they might be different was probably just pretty stupid and naive.

Edited by Tzu Qui Jinn, 15 November 2012 - 05:42 PM.

[Samarin]

If the agony is unique to the Fractals of Mist and you get the infusion gear by playing it, I don´t see it becoming too much of a problem if implemented wisely. Whether implementing such thing was wise in the first place, it´s another thing.

If Ascended armor is statwise much superior to exotics, it surely could potentially kill WvW. Somehow I don´t believe (or at least I truly hope) that Anet didn´t take that into account.

On monday we are much wiser on this, now just wait for event launch and enjoy some tropical shores.