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Ascended gear...a big F you to WvWers


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#1 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:15 AM

"Players will be able to acquire Ascended Rings in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon"

"Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content."

Welp, there goes the neighborhood.

#2 Lalnuir

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:22 AM

This is what happens when people complain about horizontal progression. Full exotics is easy to get, another month or so and 90% of all WvW would be on even footing gear wise. But nooo the PvE players need more shinies to work towards so now I'll be stomping lower geared players in WvW again. x.x

#3 Sgt_GotABeard

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:24 AM

Yeah, the thought and concept is a finger towards pure WvW players, but in the end it probably won't mean too much in practice. Nobody really goes roaming out there for 1v1's as frequently as the forum makes it out to be.

Yeah, there's a slight chance of a fair 4v4 over a road in which the small advantage may play out. In all honesty though, it's going to be made a bigger deal than it is, especially when skill of the player can outplay the small stat advantage.

Sucks though we don't get attention.

Edited by Sgt_GotABeard, 13 November 2012 - 05:25 AM.


#4 yahikodrg

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:29 AM

Suck it up, WvW was seen by ArenaNet as the casual/for fun thing to do. Also hold your judgement till this patch it out and you see for yourself how hard it is to get the rings from the dungeon and the back piece from the forge. Complaining now is like saying the monthly is unfair because it asks you to do 5 dungeons. You aren't being forced to get this gear and 3 pieces of gear is not going to make PvErs > WvWers(which there is no difference atm) small stat boosts will still have skill be more important and since when did the zerg depend on player stats as the most important thing?

#5 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:33 AM

Suuuuuuuure, maybe this "New and exciting gear" won't give a sizeable advantage (not even known since infusion might add stats as well), but what about the next and the next?  WvW is dead to me.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 13 November 2012 - 05:33 AM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#6 DreadlockrastaGW

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:45 AM

View Postyahikodrg, on 13 November 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

Suck it up, WvW was seen by ArenaNet as the casual/for fun thing to do. Also hold your judgement till this patch it out and you see for yourself how hard it is to get the rings from the dungeon and the back piece from the forge. Complaining now is like saying the monthly is unfair because it asks you to do 5 dungeons. You aren't being forced to get this gear and 3 pieces of gear is not going to make PvErs > WvWers(which there is no difference atm) small stat boosts will still have skill be more important and since when did the zerg depend on player stats as the most important thing?

It's a slippery slope, and the extra stats WILL add up when a whole set is complete "Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear"
So in a sense it does force WvWers to eventually PVE

#7 Soulstitchmmo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:51 AM

This is a ridiculous trend. Now if you want to WvW you have to pve.

#8 PunNyJR

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:51 AM

i hope it wont effect wvw well if it does i may stick with spvp only >> .

if i'm waiting a realm reborn for pve though but this game i want only pvp ......

#9 Jackiepro

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:52 AM

View PostDreadlockrastaGW, on 13 November 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

It's a slippery slope, and the extra stats WILL add up when a whole set is complete "Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear"
So in a sense it does force WvWers to eventually PVE

Possibly, it may also possibly be the case that in the future they allow ascended gear to be purchasable with Badges of Honor. Its a bit early to tell and they are clearly trying to be cautious which is why they are only releasing accessories and a back piece currently. To be really honest, if each piece gave 10 stat bonus, a total of 10 pieces is only going to give 100 power. 100 power can be obtained from simply using food, yet people dont do that on average. Similarly sigils of bloodlust can provide up to 250 power. In the end it will be giving an advantage but it will be marginal, perhaps an increase in 4-5% damage, but I dont think its the end of the world, and as I said, maybe they give us an option to acquire it through WvW, its too early to make any calls about it.

#10 Soulstitchmmo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:57 AM

View PostJackiepro, on 13 November 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Possibly, it may also possibly be the case that in the future they allow ascended gear to be purchasable with Badges of Honor. Its a bit early to tell and they are clearly trying to be cautious which is why they are only releasing accessories and a back piece currently. To be really honest, if each piece gave 10 stat bonus, a total of 10 pieces is only going to give 100 power. 100 power can be obtained from simply using food, yet people dont do that on average. Similarly sigils of bloodlust can provide up to 250 power. In the end it will be giving an advantage but it will be marginal, perhaps an increase in 4-5% damage, but I dont think its the end of the world, and as I said, maybe they give us an option to acquire it through WvW, its too early to make any calls about it.

It does a little more than that. You're assuming linear stat increases. What it does, is free up stats for other buffs to a build. So say giving all those Berserkers 100 stats to put into being a little more tanky. Or giving the bunker builds an increase in damage. Which over several people ends up being a lot of an increase.

The most powerful gear in the game can not and must not be pve only. If they are going to incorporate this system, then they need to make the gear craftable, and cost karma or badges, basically make it aquireable through WvW as well.

They don't force PVE'ers to go grind out WvW gear, the reverse can't be true.

Arenanet has GOT to stop forcing WvW to go into pve. It's already becoming too much and WvW will suffer and die because of it.

[T] Where is everyone?
[T] Oh they're all off grinding for this months new gear in whatever new content dungeon just got release.

Too many reasons to not wvw... this is going to just keep on destroying WvW.

#11 pswendel

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:00 AM

I hate it when games make me play games. God it sucks.

#12 Jackiepro

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:03 AM

View PostSoulstitchmmo, on 13 November 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

It does a little more than that. You're assuming linear stat increases. What it does, is free up stats for other buffs to a build. So say giving all those Berserkers 100 stats to put into being a little more tanky. Or giving the bunker builds an increase in damage. Which over several people ends up being a lot of an increase.

I can agree it will pull people away from WvW to farm pve and that is detrimental. I still do not believe that the stats matter as much as people care to make it seem. 100 points into toughness is 3.4% damage reduction, sure that may be something, but its unlikely that it changes the out come of a fight, its not exactly often where you fight such equal fights in both numbers and skill that the fight may have been determined by a 5% swing in power.

So even if stat scaling was not linear, like toughness, 3.4% is nothing, just as the 100 power isnt that much either. My rifle has toughness, vitality, power instead of berserker stats because I am afraid to transmute a legendary weapon, yet I still get sufficient damage output despite lacking about 250 stat points into my preferred stats. It really isnt as relevant as you make it out to be.

To be very honest, I didnt even notice a massive shift in the results of fights in WvW when I or the enemy had the orb advantage. WvW is dictated by numbers and siege moreso than 1 individuals gear. I think people are just blowing this out of proportion.

Edited by Jackiepro, 13 November 2012 - 06:13 AM.


#13 bieberfanxoxo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:06 AM

View PostSoulstitchmmo, on 13 November 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

What it does, is free up stats for other buffs to a build. So say giving all those Berserkers 100 stats to put into being a little more tanky.

And how do they do this? The 100(?)stat increase is over every piece of gear combined, you'll need to slot out all your berserkers to gain 100stats of a different type. If anything the tankier become a bit tankier, the offensive become a little more offensive.

We're also talking about a couple of pieces introduced at a time. We don't know how long they take to grind for one, you could be getting a piece quite easily for all we know, and even then it's not like people will be disappearing for weeks to grind a full set + accessories.

The GW2 world is ending so it seems, maybe this was what the Mayans predicted, I mean we're close and all...

View PostJackiepro, on 13 November 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

My rifle has toughness, vitality, power instead of berserker stats because I am afraid to transmute a legendary weapon, yet I still get sufficient damage output despite lacking about 250 stat points into my preferred stats.

Don't do it. I transmuted mine and it links as an exotic now, not purple :(

#14 Seki

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:08 AM

Everyone needs to chill out. This will hardly affect WvW as everyone travels in a zerg and seige does all the work. In a month or two, majority will have this new gear. The only way that I can see this new content patch affecting WvW is that most people will be out doing the new content they paid for and not queueing to defend/attack.

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#15 Azure Skye

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:09 AM

Not really unles you play theif, which might get hit on the same day as this content goes live.

#16 Lalnuir

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:12 AM

Comparing a rare ruby ring to an exotic one you gain
+11 power
+9 precision
1% crit damage

Off a chest piece you gain 12 power and 8 precision

Swapping from full zerker rares to full zerker exotics you gain
89 power
67 precision
118 defense
6% crit damage

Considering nothing is stopping you from running food and blood lust with your ascended gear it looks like it will be a sizable advantage.

#17 fathamburger

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:14 AM

I agree. I've been out of WvW to complete exo sets and now this. Its a big F you to me who basically blew all my 375 lvl mats to make rares to salvage just so I could complete *one char*'s jewelcrafting, and since that shit is soulbound.. well I'm lucky if I'll be able to get my ectos back.I don't f-ing farm, and it's definitely not what I play the game for. PVE... *sigh*

At least we're getting something for the backslot, but JFC. Ultimately though, it's PVE that pays the bills. PVP players are a tolerated niche that gives a game street cred, kinda like the Corvette but when push comes to shove.. Volkswagen will make Beetles and not Lambos to pay the bills.

Edited by fathamburger, 13 November 2012 - 06:15 AM.


#18 Jackiepro

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:17 AM

View PostLalnuir, on 13 November 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

Comparing a rare ruby ring to an exotic one you gain
+11 power
+9 precision
1% crit damage

Off a chest piece you gain 12 power and 8 precision

Swapping from full zerker rares to full zerker exotics you gain
89 power
67 precision
118 defense
6% crit damage

Considering nothing is stopping you from running food and blood lust with your ascended gear it looks like it will be a sizable advantage.

You are assuming a linear jump from rare to exotic as to exotic to ascended. Nothing indicates that this is the case.
Posted Image

Seems like a 5 power and 5 precision buff, with a sizeable gain in magic find. The gain in magic find may be unique and the gain in crit damage may be less. Similarly in this image an accessory benefits more because they factored in the exquisite jewel, (gave 3 power and 3 precision). It is possible that they do not consider this for armor peices because those slots are commonly occupied by runes, so we have no actual information on how they intend to approach that.

Conclusion? The numbers you posted are by a large degree off, with little evidence to support their possibility.

#19 Soulstitchmmo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:19 AM

It doesn't matter if the stat increase is 1point. This is going to make wvw a ghost town. Think of what happened during the Halloween event?

New shiny gear only available through pve that is marginally better = ghost town in WvW.

#20 Jackiepro

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:25 AM

Right but I dont understand the argument. Should Anet never release pve content then, because the content they release that over a million people enjoy may adversely impact the activity that possibly only about 50,000 players play somewhat actively worldwide?

I mean at this point it no longer has anything to do with gear. If anet were to ever release any form of game content it would harm WvW's activity, but thats more the players fault than Anets fault? I mean Anet cant control what people prefer to play, nor can they simply never release content purely for the sake of WvW.

I was only arguing to say that the stats from Ascended gear will not be relevant to WvW, which they wont be as far as I believe, but time will tell. What happens to the population of pvers who claim themselves to be WvWers is not my field of expertise.

Edited by Jackiepro, 13 November 2012 - 06:26 AM.


#21 Soulstitchmmo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:29 AM

View PostJackiepro, on 13 November 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

Right but I dont understand the argument. Should Anet never release pve content then, because the content they release that over a million people enjoy may adversely impact the activity that possibly only about 50,000 players play somewhat actively worldwide?

I mean at this point it no longer has anything to do with gear. If anet were to ever release any form of game content it would harm WvW's activity, but thats more the players fault than Anets fault? I mean Anet cant control what people prefer to play, nor can they simply never release content purely for the sake of WvW.

I was only arguing to say that the stats from Ascended gear will not be relevant to WvW, which they wont be as far as I believe, but time will tell. What happens to the population of pvers who claim themselves to be WvWers is not my field of expertise.

Release all the content they want, just stop messing with stats. Make it all shiney new stuff, but do not give any gear any more stats.

#22 Jackiepro

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:33 AM

View PostSoulstitchmmo, on 13 November 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Release all the content they want, just stop messing with stats. Make it all shiney new stuff, but do not give any gear any more stats.

Yea I agree with that, simply because I dont see a need for increase in stats if the intent is for them to be minimal. But similarly I cannot agree with this thread title, when these minimal stat increases will have no bearing on WvW.

My only gripe, is why bother to introduce any stat upgrades if they arent going to change anything anyways. In effect you could simulate the entire damage benefit of this new gear with 1 blast finisher in a fire field for 3 might stacks, but I dont hear people crying about combo fields or the lack of blast finishers on certain classes when compared with others etc etc. Im just trying to bring 100 power etc into perspective, in that the title of this thread is misleading.

#23 Bottoms_Up

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:48 AM

View PostJackiepro, on 13 November 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

I still do not believe that the stats matter as much as people care to make it seem.

And that there might be the problem. I'd say the overarching issue with WvW is keeping people interested, so I wonder what an increasing gear gap, imagined or not, will have on WvW participation. I agree that small differences in stats (like from rare to exotics) aren't really noticeable in practice, but I also know that as a casual I still don't have full exotics yet; what now will be the gap between rares and ascended? I'd still go to WvW but how many other casuals won't because they think they might be undergeared if the ascended gear does affect WvW stats?

#24 xarallei

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:50 AM

This ascended gear thing sucks. I hate doing dungeons. :( I wouldn't care if it was just new sets of shiny looking cosmetic gear, but please no better stat gear from dungeons only please.

Edited by xarallei, 13 November 2012 - 06:50 AM.


#25 Velron

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:02 AM

This may be the last *ing straw for me. All the bullshit issues with WvW and rendering and everything else I have been willing to deal with and wait out for fixes. This though, this they promised us would never happen. This goes against everything they sold us on. I've quit every other MMO because I couldn't just PVP without having to maintain a gear grind to stay on equal footing. That wasn't supposed to happen here and they specifically promised us it wouldn't.

For now, I am going to stop supporting the company with gem purchases. Which I have actually done way too much of up until now and didn't mind because I was happy to support the game company that finally broke the mold and delivered on what they promised.

Then they said "hey, F YOU!"

Edited by Velron, 13 November 2012 - 07:03 AM.


#26 Lordkrall

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:17 AM

Oh nooo. They are adding ACCESSORIES (not even armors or weapons mind you) that have about 0,5% better stats! They are ruining WvW!!!!!!

Seriously?

It is still very possible to run around in WvW and be just as valuable when wearing Rare gear as when wearing exotic.
And guess what?

The jump between Rare and Exotic is MANY TIMES HIGHER than the jump between Exotic and Ascended.

#27 Soulstitchmmo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:20 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

Oh nooo. They are adding ACCESSORIES (not even armors or weapons mind you) that have about 0,5% better stats! They are ruining WvW!!!!!!

Seriously?

It is still very possible to run around in WvW and be just as valuable when wearing Rare gear as when wearing exotic.
And guess what?

The jump between Rare and Exotic is MANY TIMES HIGHER than the jump between Exotic and Ascended.

It's the trend that needs to be stopped. Stop the gear treadmill. Make the content worth doing because it's fun for the pve'ers. Not make everyone do the new content for the gear. NO stat increases. just new skins.

#28 TokenDeadGuy2

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:23 AM

Pretty lame imo.  I have been mostly playing dayz for the last few weeks and this is definitely the last straw for me with gw2 since I thought raiding was only for cosmetic purposes.  With that said, it could be easily argued that wvw is all about group coordination and individual skill is less of a necessity as well as gear, but still this move irks me since I was mostly a solo player searching for one on ones behind enemy lines.

#29 Serris

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:24 AM

dudes, before you start the rage and whine threads, look at what the ascended gear means. in gw1, infusion meant you were protected from a skill mursaat used on you. there was no actual pvp difference between infused armor and regular armor.
i would not be surprised if ascended meant you could choose between dealing extra damage to the new enemy type, or taking less damage from the enemy type or something similar like this.
and then future infusions would be new infusions based on new enemies.

#30 Lordkrall

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:26 AM

View PostSoulstitchmmo, on 13 November 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

It's the trend that needs to be stopped. Stop the gear treadmill. Make the content worth doing because it's fun for the pve'ers. Not make everyone do the new content for the gear. NO stat increases. just new skins.

But the thing is it won't effect WvW:ers.

I am about 99,9% sure that you will not be able to tell the difference between someone in Exotic and someone in Ascended gear in WvW when the armor comes. People are overreacting as usual.

And this is coming from a player that spend loads of time in WvW and have rather little time to do dungeons so I probably won't get this new tier.




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