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Ascended gear...a big F you to WvWers


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#151 Soulstitchmmo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:02 PM

Hell the pve'ers should be pissed about this as well. increasing stats is a crutch for bad game design. The dungeons should be done well enough that people will want to do them. NOT because they HAVE to in order to get geared up for other future content.

Arenanet is basically throwing out the entire "gear doesn't matter" system and replacing it with "Hey WoW did it so we're going to do it".

#152 Lordkrall

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

View PostDrtrider, on 13 November 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

It is a force to grind if this is the only way to get the gear. Give me a crafting equivalent and I'm fine with the new gear. The root of the issue is making the "best in slot" gear only obtainable through a dungeon. I'm here for the PvP not the PvE. Don't force me to go and run the PvE. Just as they were doing originally.

Exactly. IF

#153 blindude

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:04 PM

thats really bad ..really really bad.I dont care about pve cause i can do all explorables on rare stuff easily right now.I dont even need exotics.BUT why force pvpers not only do pve but only one *ing dungeon.

#154 Roland Der Meister

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostSpecialz, on 13 November 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Nobody is forcing you to grind. Nothing really changes, except for the thought that someone has ascended gear.

BTW whenever there is a change, someone will always get screwed. Just to add, WvW isn't known to be a balance zone anyways. And there is no information about armor yet because there is no armor yet and they wont be for a long time. So how about we save the QQ until they actually implement armor?
Just to let you know having 6 ascended accessory's and 6 exotic armor pieces  is like having 6 pieces of armor pieces  with 6 exotic accessory's

#155 Sayura

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostDrtrider, on 13 November 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

It is a force to grind if this is the only way to get the gear. Give me a crafting equivalent and I'm fine with the new gear. The root of the issue is making the "best in slot" gear only obtainable through a dungeon. I'm here for the PvP not the PvE. Don't force me to go and run the PvE. Just as they were doing originally.

We can level entirely through WvW yet can't use our badges for the "best in slot" gear.

Role reversal: Make everyone earn badges for "best in slot" gear = carebears cry and quit, pvers move to wvw, wvw becomes more fun and matches become closer... /winning.

#156 Beastgate

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:07 PM

Yes, WvW is currently endgame, it's about time ArenaNet realized it.
Hopefully I can buy a full set with my 1200 stockpiled badges.

#157 G L J

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:08 PM

View PostRoland Der Meister, on 13 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Just to let you know having 6 ascended accessory's and 6 exotic armor pieces  is like having 6 pieces of armor pieces  with 6 exotic accessory's

I'm trying to make sense of this, because it's not exactly clear.

But if you want an individual comparison of stats
chest > amulet > legs = rings > Accessories > Helmet > Shoulders > boots = Gloves

#158 Corvindi

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:17 PM

Come to think of it, as funny as it would be, I shouldn't encourage Anet to force PVE players to flood WvW against their will.  If it ever happened, the JQ commanders would probably show up at my house, kit me out in some concrete boots (-%85 swimming) and throw me in a lake.

Edited by Corvindi, 13 November 2012 - 08:18 PM.


#159 Dystoria

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:20 PM

They could simply have the ascended gear scale down to become exotics when zoning into World vs World. This way dungeon runners get their dungeon gear and it doesn't affect the pvper's.

#160 Acidbaron

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:10 PM

The thing is for me personally,

If i want a PvE game with gear progression i have much better alternatives then remaining in GW2.

Trying to compete in that category is a dangerous path to take, as Going head to head with Trion, Blizzard and many more. Will not make them win that player base over as arenanet isn't sure what to do yet in the future it seems still trying different paths.

How much this will effect WvW is to be seen, i wouldn't shout murder! yet as it has a long way to go and these will be below legendary weapons what don't really add that much and seem to be focussed on adding a twist on PvE content by adding specific weapon procs to aid you in a battle, what comes across as a trying to give a light version of what another mmo is doing with skill setups.

But to say we are going down the path of warhammer online is too soon, but yes i would glady see them introducing something of the same kind above exotic below legendary in WvW rewards, for participation not marks ;)

#161 ilr

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

https://forum-en.gui...NET-WvW-Rewards

...this is pretty freakin' Sad. NO PLANS ready to go... they haven't even been workin' on it enough to roll it out anywhere close to the timeframe they're rolling out this whole Ascended deal (complete with dungeon).  The only incentives in WvW right now seems to be kicking people when they're down so I'm done with it now.  I'm not even sure I wanna do the dungeon now.  I honestly want a new hobby... getting really sick of seeing once great studios poisoning their own wells.

#162 PhoenixRed

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:53 PM

View PostG L J, on 13 November 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Alternatively, we QQ loud enough and constantly enough now so that that armor never gets implemented.

I hate to be that guy, but it's two days before the patch. The press articles are published. The blog post is published, with an explanation that probably was in the works from a design perspective for a while now. Loud and constant complaining at the eleventh hour will change nothing. This is likely going in, and that's that. Pullbacks on content prior to its publishing are rare.

The real power will come from constructive, measured feedback after its in, because people (including the devs) will have actual empirical evidence of the negative impact of the gear itself in a WvW setting.That's what I plan on doing, because I'm concerned about these changes as well. It's nice to know they have plans for progression in WvW, but I do think it was a mistake to not have it released in parallel with this pve content patch introducing these items.

The analog comparison for the Ascended stuff is the Radiance stuff from LOTRO. That got removed, but only after an extended amount of feedback given by players which also included data from after the changes went live. This will probably be no different.

#163 Earendil

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:48 PM

I remember they had green items in GW1 that were somehow better than anything else, not because of stats but because of the unique combination of mods. People would name them as the best option in PvP builds but you could do ok without them.

Hope it's just that.

#164 Dokem

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:55 PM

View PostDystoria, on 13 November 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

They could simply have the ascended gear scale down to become exotics when zoning into World vs World. This way dungeon runners get their dungeon gear and it doesn't affect the pvper's.

I'm hoping for this aswell. Makes sense. Sounds logic. Seems legit.

#165 Voison

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

Honestly, I'm not worried about it... I can always take a few hours away from WvW to do a dungeon run....
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#166 n00854180t

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:06 AM

Ascended gear - a big F you to everyone that bought the game because it was designed to be different than the massive crop of WoW clones.


Fixed the title for you.

#167 Soulstitchmmo

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:08 AM

View Postn00854180t, on 14 November 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

Ascended gear - a big F you to everyone that bought the game because it was designed to be different than the massive crop of WoW clones.


Fixed the title for you.

yeah, even pve players are incredibly pissed off by the power creep implications.

#168 omar316

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:17 AM

View PostOrikx, on 13 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

F2P has nothing to do with gear progression. There are lots of successful F2P games that don't have a gear progression. There are many League of Legends(i forget what you call that genre) style games that are F2P and their store introduces Skins, new content, etc... but there isn't a gear progression that new gear is released every few months that you now grind for.

The problem is the F2P model is still kind of new to American MMO's so everyone is still trying to figure out how to make the model successful for them and people are resistant to change. So instead of trying something new developers revert back to the old, "if it aint broke don't fix it" mentality. Many PvE'res want tons of gear progression so rather then find a way to make it work without introducing gear into the PvP elements they just do what everyone else does. Here's a new dungeon with new gear.

They can do both and keep both happy but developers are afraid to take risks because they all want their share of the pie and if it doesn't work their share will just run to the next MMO. So they end up doing what everyone else is doing just to ensure the easy revenue.

As for "if they ever want to make more then the 2million+ copies sold". I would bet that if they released the numbers for revenue they have already made, since the game went live, it would already be much higher then it would have been for sub's for the first six months. I know of many people that have already spent hundreds and some much much more on this game. Six months of subs would have only been $90 US and traditionally people leave in mass after their first 1 month free because they lose interest so fast. Many of those people probably bought gems in the first weeks and then left after a month. Of course this is speculation based on a small number of people I know so maybe they are the minority.

In the end I am still giving ANet the benefit of the doubt. They have done nothing up to this point to lose my trust so I will wait to see how it is rolled out. This could be the first thing they do to lose my trust though.

I think you're missing my point of being f2p.
LoL is great.
1) It's free
2) It's balanced
3) It's a short experience
4) It's a model which does not require people to be retained. It is a hot join.
5) Many f2p games, MMOs in general do not release in store content and is actually balanced, usually it IS pay to win.

LoL does only 1 thing and it does it well. PvP, in small teams. It has options to be both competitive and casual. Players are not obligated to play any longer other than the 1st 30 levels. Even then there are systems in place to put you in the same bracket sub 30 and in the competitive zone its ELO rank.

GW2 is a PvE game 1st and foremost, and then a PvP game.
Players interests are retained through PvE elements, that is why its called an MMORPG.
If you want to bring sPvP into this argument, then you already know, that it is just another MOBA with more polygons and fancier looking skills. Warhammer Wrath of Heroes has already gone that route. If you want a true core PvP game then WAR would be the best model. But we know how that went, with almost no PvE content, servers died within a few months.

PvE is practically the selling aspect in this genre. Maybe Anet shot itself when they introduced 0 sub fees. They need to roll out consistent PvE elements and long term PvE content which is meaningful and not just of cosmetic grinds of RNG nature. This will be the best addition to longevity yet.

#169 Drtrider

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostDystoria, on 13 November 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

They could simply have the ascended gear scale down to become exotics when zoning into World vs World. This way dungeon runners get their dungeon gear and it doesn't affect the pvper's.

THIS. A hundred times this.

#170 omar316

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:20 AM

View PostSayura, on 13 November 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Running into a keep for a POI and climbing a little hill for a vista is not WvWing.

It is if the said keep is under enemy control.

#171 Impmon

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

Quit the game, take your tears somewhere else.  You act like this kid I see at my sons school who freaks out if he can't put his backpack first in line.  If another kid gets there first this kid tries to pick their bag up throw it and put his down.  When he's corrected the kid has a mental breakdown and freaks out crying.  

This is what all the whiners about new content sound like to me.

Amusing part about all the whiners is you'll be the first ones to blast through the content and post all the awesome new armor you have and then complain how much it sucked although you played for 24/7 to get it.  I guarantee.

#172 omar316

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

View PostSoulstitchmmo, on 13 November 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Hell the pve'ers should be pissed about this as well. increasing stats is a crutch for bad game design. The dungeons should be done well enough that people will want to do them. NOT because they HAVE to in order to get geared up for other future content.

Arenanet is basically throwing out the entire "gear doesn't matter" system and replacing it with "Hey WoW did it so we're going to do it".

Only if the dungeon mechanics are well thought of. Current state of the dungeons are just dodge many red circles while 1ing something till it dies.

So the easier method is while keeping such atrocious mechanics introduce something people would actually want. Yes, I will do it if it means zerg rushing every boss, if it means so.

#173 xXDeath2UXx

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:31 AM

Honestly, I am happy they are doing this, more content is good.  Just hope they give more perks for WvW eventually.

#174 Fannwong

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:40 AM

There has been cases forcing PVE on PVP players. DAOC (Trials of Atlantis) and Warhammer (LOTD). Both did not bode well for the games. Some of the WvW players do not want anything to do with running dungeons for a simple reason, it bores the heck out of them. They would rather spend time in WvW. Saying the minimal increase in stats won't matter, the psychological impact of having lesser gear is there. WvW players will go to PVE to get the best stuff (however minimal the increase). However, as other posters have said, if Ascended can be purchased through karma/gold/badges that would work.

FW

Edited by Fannwong, 14 November 2012 - 12:41 AM.


#175 Quietnine

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:46 AM

View PostSoulstitchmmo, on 13 November 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

A lot of you have no idea what you're talking about. GW2 is now a gear grind. They are introducing entire new sets of upgraded ascended gear. All slots. That will give a slight stat increase, plus give infusions against certain pve abilities.

front page of guru, on the interview with Murdock
"In terms of rarity, Ascended items fall between Exotic and Legendary."
"Currently, Ascended items only come in the form of rings and back slots, but there's room to expand in the future."

A legendary greatsword has the exact same +stats as an exotic.
So if Ascended is:  Exotic <= Ascended <= Legendary, AND Exotic = Legendary, then Exotic = Ascended.

Am I reading this wrong? I dont see any info saying ascended will have more stats, just that it will be able to counter a PvE only condition.

Edit: with the exception of backpieces which only exist as rares atm, this really shouldnt mean anything for any WvW's at all.

Edited by Quietnine, 14 November 2012 - 12:49 AM.


#176 Specialz

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:49 AM

View PostG L J, on 13 November 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Alternatively, we QQ loud enough and constantly enough now so that that armor never gets implemented.

have you considered the possibility that was the point of that very statement. (I know its a little subtle).

#177 bieberfanxoxo

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:50 AM

View PostQuietnine, on 14 November 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

Am I reading this wrong? I dont see any info saying ascended will have more stats, just that it will be able to counter a PvE only condition.

Legendary items will always be of the highest tier in the game. Their stats will be raised to the new ascended level come this patch(or maybe when ascended weapons are introduced, unsure atm). The reason they say ascended is between exotic and legendary is because if (god forbid) they introduce a higher tier than ascended, legendary items will then raise to that new level. It means while legendaries are capped at the highest stat level of current gear, they're still a level above all gear because they have the ability to increase as gear tiers increase. That's my understanding anyway.

Edited by bieberfanxoxo, 14 November 2012 - 12:52 AM.


#178 Quietnine

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:53 AM

View Postbieberfanxoxo, on 14 November 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

Legendary items will always be of the highest tier in the game. Their stats will be raised to the new ascended level come this patch(or maybe when ascended weapons are introduced, unsure atm). The reason they say ascended is between exotic and legendary is because if (god forbid) they introduce a higher tier than ascended, legendary items will then raise to that new level. That's my understanding anyway.

right, but i dont see anything in that interview that says ascended will have more stats, just that it will have a higher rarity. since legendaries have a higher rarity but dont increase in stats, its not exactly a safe bet to assume ascended items would increase in stats.

#179 bieberfanxoxo

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

View PostQuietnine, on 14 November 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

right, but i dont see anything in that interview that says ascended will have more stats, just that it will have a higher rarity. since legendaries have a higher rarity but dont increase in stats, its not exactly a safe bet to assume ascended items would increase in stats.

https://www.guildwar...-ascended-gear/

Stats are higher.

#180 Voison

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:00 AM

View Postbieberfanxoxo, on 14 November 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:


Only by a few %.

Edited by Voison, 14 November 2012 - 01:00 AM.

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