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Ascended gear...a big F you to WvWers


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#271 Mura

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:44 PM

I enjoy wvw and this ascended gear issue really doesn't bother me.  Having goals and things to accomplish is what makes playing mmo's fun.

#272 Kreen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:26 PM

View PostSyphen, on 16 November 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

I just don't like to jump to conclusions before I see everything play out.   Getting pissed off about something before you see the full implifications of it is bad.  Everyone assumes the worst in all these ocassions and it is like chicken little with the sky is falling.

how do you like them apples?

http://www.gw2db.com...berserkers-ring

http://www.gw2db.com...d-ring-of-death

as far as I am concerned the sky has fallen in and hit me on the head and it does hurt :)

#273 Kreen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:36 PM

View PostSoulstitchmmo, on 16 November 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

GW2 is officially a power creep game. Accept that, or go play Planetside2.

Looks like DF2 and PS2 are getting my full attention now. Was always going to take a break from GW2 anyway to try out 1 month of DF2 as I just loved the FFA PVP full loot nature of the original until the grind took over and alot of my guild is going to re-try it. Done a little of PS2 beta and I loved PS1 until it became bot wars so I will try that as well. Shame because it really did look like GW2 had a great mix of pve, pvp and RvR despite the various issues and was going to hold my attention for a good while I think. I guess I can always check back in on GW2 in a few months to see how it is going.

#274 Kreen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:43 PM

View PostMura, on 16 November 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

I enjoy wvw and this ascended gear issue really doesn't bother me.  Having goals and things to accomplish is what makes playing mmo's fun.

Somewhat agree, playing with friends is what makes laying mmo's fun for me though. Of course I still had plenty of things to accomplish and goals in GW2. Like levelling up my alts and gearing them in exotic so I had a selection of avatars for WvW. Slowly progressing towards a legendary or just hanging out doing some pve for a break. Now I find I have yet another goal to aim for that is not just cosmetic and I don't think I am prepared to get on that treadmill....

#275 gattsuru

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:46 PM

View PostKreen, on 16 November 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Even assuming that we end up with entire sets with that stat difference, there's a lot of space where that might not be the most relevant thing.  WvWvW players may get better return for their time investment by cooking or getting good PvP groups set up, if the rings take terribly long to grind to.

Not ideal, though.

#276 Velron

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

View PostSoulstitchmmo, on 16 November 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

GW2 is officially a power creep game. Accept that, or go play Planetside2.

Omg that's what I've been doing! It's actually a pretty good game so far.

View PostKreen, on 16 November 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:



Looks like DF2 and PS2 are getting my full attention now. Was always going to take a break from GW2 anyway to try out 1 month of DF2 as I just loved the FFA PVP full loot nature of the original until the grind took over and alot of my guild is going to re-try it. Done a little of PS2 beta and I loved PS1 until it became bot wars so I will try that as well. Shame because it really did look like GW2 had a great mix of pve, pvp and RvR despite the various issues and was going to hold my attention for a good while I think. I guess I can always check back in on GW2 in a few months to see how it is going.

DF2? Is this Darkfall 2 or something? I'll google "DF2" but doubt that's a reliable search lol

#277 TokenDeadGuy2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

SWGEMU looks very promising to me right now for some true even field world pvp.  I gave this game a chance thinking it would get rid of the carrot on the stick, but time to go to a true sandbox mmo game.

Edited by TokenDeadGuy2, 16 November 2012 - 10:52 PM.


#278 Salticus

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:54 AM

View PostKillminusnine, on 16 November 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

There is a very manageable gear progression right now that allows PvP players to jump into the action with minimal effort.  PvP players realize that there *is* this gear progression but don't mind because its not a huge time sink.  Stop referencing CoD (because there *is* a gear progression there as well, you clueless nub) because it isn't helping your argument.  In fact, just to hammer home my point: BF3--gear progression, CoD--gear progression, LoL--stat/template progression.  You're making yourself look ridiculous.

This is simple:

1. PvP players want PvP gear that is the equivilant to dungeon gear (in looks and stats) that can be obtained via PvP.
2. Said gear needs to be in every available stat combination.
3. If you add new tiers of gear to PvE then you need to add a similar tier of gear to the PvP progression.
4. Stat differences between gear sets should be extremely minimal and not gamebreaking.

We do *not* want to run scripted carebear content in order to acquire gear.  We have a deep, real disdain for that content that isn't challenging.  We bought and continue to the play the game in order to test ourselves against other thinking opponents where the game plays differently each night that we log on and our strategies can (and will) be countered.

If you don't like our mentality, go play a pure PvE game.  Or, better yet, go run your scripted instances until the cows come home and get the hell out of the WvW forums.
Like I said, Anet did that to get more players to do PVE.

Dungeons are not challenging? Wow.. Have you ever done one? I won't be surprised if you rage quit in the middle of it.

As for your strategies, there are no strategies required in WvW. It's just a zerg fest. Even if you out gear 5 people, you'll still lose in a 1v5 scenario.

And for the record, I'm a generalist. I do PVP and PVE. I like them both. And go chill your head. Then again, what can I expect from a person who focuses on PVP who's mentality is the same as 4chan.

Edited by Salticus, 17 November 2012 - 12:55 AM.


#279 Kreen

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:00 AM

View PostVelron, on 16 November 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

Omg that's what I've been doing! It's actually a pretty good game so far.



DF2? Is this Darkfall 2 or something? I'll google "DF2" but doubt that's a reliable search lol

yes darkfall unholy wars, probably not quite DF2, possibly DF 1.2 :)

#280 Salticus

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:13 AM

View Postbieberfanxoxo, on 16 November 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Did that seriously go over your head? Wow..

GW2 doesn't need stat progression. They could of just made a new set to grind with infusion slots where they offer +x% damage in pve or -y% damage taken in pve. Would of given pve players their carrot while doing nothing to unbalance pvp players.

Have you never played an mmo before and seen how dumb and damaging it is to make gear progression in only one aspect of the game? In every game where pve gear is better for pvp there are complaints, and in every game with a pvp stat you see pve players wanting it removed because they can't compete or have the time to acquire sets to do both. It never works and no one is ever happy.

Maybe I'm short sighted or something, maybe I have no clue, but imo I just don't see why a person who rarely focuses on pvp should have an advantage over pure pvpers and vice versa.

I look forward to your next dumb CoD statement.
Yes, game breaking for PVPers because that's the only thing that they do, but not game breaking for those who do both and PVEers. Well, maybe game breaking for them too because of how brutal it is to acquire it. If you want better gear, either run a dungeon, be content with legendary or quit. Simple as that.

#281 Don Zaloog

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:39 AM

View PostSalticus, on 17 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Like I said, Anet did that to get more players to do PVE.

Dungeons are not challenging? Wow.. Have you ever done one? I won't be surprised if you rage quit in the middle of it.

As for your strategies, there are no strategies required in WvW. It's just a zerg fest. Even if you out gear 5 people, you'll still lose in a 1v5 scenario.

And for the record, I'm a generalist. I do PVP and PVE. I like them both. And go chill your head. Then again, what can I expect from a person who focuses on PVP who's mentality is the same as 4chan.

You've lost all credibility by saying that and made it extremely obvious that you have not played more than 30 min of WvW.

#282 OriginalSinX

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:51 AM

Daym!!! dat's one crazy sentence

#283 Salticus

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:04 AM

View PostDon Zaloog, on 17 November 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

You've lost all credibility by saying that and made it extremely obvious that you have not played more than 30 min of WvW.
Sorry, but it is a zerg fest. A small roaming group of players, when faced against a large group of people, it's instant lose. 5 players with high tier gear will lose against 10 players with medium tier gear.

#284 Omnirai

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:05 AM

View PostSalticus, on 17 November 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

Sorry, but it is a zerg fest. A small roaming group of players, when faced against a large group of people, it's instant lose. 5 players with high tier gear will lose against 10 players with medium tier gear.

Except no.

#285 bieberfanxoxo

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:21 AM

View PostSalticus, on 17 November 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:


Yes, game breaking for PVPers because that's the only thing that they do, but not game breaking for those who do both and PVEers. Well, maybe game breaking for them too because of how brutal it is to acquire it. If you want better gear, either run a dungeon, be content with legendary or quit. Simple as that.

Could you stop replying like a moron if you don't understand the point I'm making.

If I have to grind pve I have to grind it, I don't want to but I will. So constantly telling me to quit or play another game just shows how bad you're missing the point.

So many games fail because of pinholed gear progression. The point I was making is they can offer progression to pve players and not unbalance or force pvp players to run dungeons. They can also keep the same system of crafted gear being the best for pvp and keep it balanced yet allow the pve players to jump in and be on the same level as pvp focused players.  Doesn't that sound like a better idea?

Games have pure pvpers, pure pve'ers and players who do both. Why should one group of players be forced into an element of the game they don't want to do, yet unless they do, it unbalances their element. Would you be carrying out the same argument if ascended gear was only available via badges yet dungeon runners still needed infusions etc for progression into new instances?

It's just dumb how they've done it, it has ruined so many games and is completely narrow minded.

Have fun missing the point again, I'm sure you won't let me down.

#286 Killminusnine

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:49 AM

View PostSalticus, on 17 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Like I said, Anet did that to get more players to do PVE.

Dungeons are not challenging? Wow.. Have you ever done one? I won't be surprised if you rage quit in the middle of it.

As for your strategies, there are no strategies required in WvW. It's just a zerg fest. Even if you out gear 5 people, you'll still lose in a 1v5 scenario.

And for the record, I'm a generalist. I do PVP and PVE. I like them both. And go chill your head. Then again, what can I expect from a person who focuses on PVP who's mentality is the same as 4chan.

Yes, I've done dungeons.  No they aren't challenging in the slightest. Your comments about what you believe happens in WvW has cost you any credibility you may have had left.  

Your obvious lack experience in the parts of the game that you are speaking about is only slightly entertaining.  Enjoy your carebearing.  Your opinion here is worth nothing to us.

Edited by Killminusnine, 17 November 2012 - 05:50 AM.


#287 Velron

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:47 AM

View PostKreen, on 17 November 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

yes darkfall unholy wars, probably not quite DF2, possibly DF 1.2 :)

A lot of the changes look really good, I am definitely going to have to check that out. If its not pushed back should be out next month.

#288 asmodess

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

View PostSalticus, on 17 November 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

Sorry, but it is a zerg fest. A small roaming group of players, when faced against a large group of people, it's instant lose. 5 players with high tier gear will lose against 10 players with medium tier gear.


Clearly you never played warhammer or DAOC  , many times a well equiped 6 man  team that runs together basicly a premade , would wipe out entire  warbands of 24+  people  pretty much all day hehe .

hell i remember once our 12 man  wiped out 2 full wbs  thats 48 person  zerg easily . not sure what games  you have been playing but they must not have had many skilled players if  a zerg is insta kill .

Edited by asmodess, 17 November 2012 - 08:04 PM.


#289 Oxll

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:13 AM

People really think ascended gear is going to break WvW? To those PvP people who feel developers don't look out for you, and feed the PvE crowd.... unfortunately your right. Games have gradually become worse over the years. Developers are looking to make games that sell. So the masses unfortunately are fed more then the niche population of PvP only players.

Yet there is hope. DARKFALL UNHOLY WARS. Darkfall has been around for 3 years, and now they are releasing DF:UW on Dec 12th, 2012. This game caters to PvP centric players. So much so that their original population was tiny in comparison to any wow clone. But if you like WvW and want more, then I hope to see you guys over on Unholy Wars.



#290 Corvindi

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:00 AM

Darkfall.  Meh.  Open World PvP everywhere gets on my nerves after awhile.  PvP and PvE are like mashed potatoes and chocolate pudding.  They're both yummy, but I don't want them all mixed together on my plate.

And then there is Archeage, that plans to mix PvP, PVE, and interior decorating all in one.  That is really going to get on my last nerve if I'm dumb enough to try it.  Oh look, I got my wall lined up perfectly with my buildings, just the way I wanted it.  Now to figure out where the gate goes....my kidneys, oh god my kidneys!  The blood, the blood is everywhere!

#291 bieberfanxoxo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:04 AM

If your new game is so amazing why do you have to advertise it so much in games catered for pve'ers?

#292 Switchback

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:54 AM

I don't mind new items, even with better stats, but I do mind that you can't as of yet, get them in the game mode of your choice, as it was with exotics and which was their philosophy prior to this.

They say they will be available eventually in WvW, but when? Judging by fixes so far, it doesn't inspire confidence. And we don't know if all slots will be available, or what stat combinations. Currently WvW armor is stuck with one stat combo, that is not good for a lot of builds and professions.

As far as the level of increase, it looks like once a full set gets in, it could easily be around 100 total stats or more. Which would be something like having an orb bonus. Which I know when I had one of those, I rarely ever lost 1v1 encounters.

As far as grinding them out, well on the Anet forums some have calculated 20-30 hours per piece, and that's just for the relic cost, there are other mats. Multiply that times a whole armor set eventually, you are talking several hundred hours in dungeons. Or something equal to doing PVE grinding for two months straight instead of WvW (assuming 2-4 hours play per day). That's a definite pass for me as a WvW = Endgame player.

Edited by Switchback, 18 November 2012 - 04:56 AM.


#293 Tumaras

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:36 AM

Forcing people who primarily wvw in the game to now do dungeons for bis gear is a big change, and the folks complaining about it have every right to.  

Saying that "you shouldn't complain because it's only a little bit better" is also a bit ridiculous.  Exotics are only a bit better than rares, but most people can easily tell the difference when playing.  Plus the infusions will make the gap larger.  Also, this whole philosophy change was introduced to add grinding, which means the current ascended gear will eventually be replaced by better yet ascended gear in another new dungeon added in another monthly event, etc.  That's the whole grinding system, put out new gear every few months slightly better than the last to keep people endlessly grinding.

Anet has said that they are working on some reward changes for wvw, so I'm hoping they provide a way to get equivalent stat gear to ascended soley through wvw.  That could be through karma, badges, or a new currency system.  So I'm hoping that's what is coming.  Otherwise, this change plus the lack of any other new content in wvw since release is going to start driving players away.

#294 bieberfanxoxo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:42 AM

View PostSwitchback, on 18 November 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

They say they will be available eventually in WvW, but when? Judging by fixes so far, it doesn't inspire confidence. And we don't know if all slots will be available, or what stat combinations. Currently WvW armor is stuck with one stat combo, that is not good for a lot of builds and professions.

As far as the level of increase, it looks like once a full set gets in, it could easily be around 100 total stats or more. Which would be something like having an orb bonus. Which I know when I had one of those, I rarely ever lost 1v1 encounters.

My guess would be when they, or just before they introduce the newer pieces of gear, the previous will be able to be grinded by other means, badges, karma etc. While I don't like it, adding ascended stats that can be bought by badges, karma etc would mean they could be purchased right away, giving the infusion and ascended stats required for their new instance off the bat, possibly trivialising it or making it too easy and farmable which would break the pve endgame of the game, not that I care but seems sorta logical. So you may have to put up with being ~20 stats behind for a couple of months as each new piece is added which isn't too bad tbh, not ideal but not gamebreaking IF that's how they do it.

As for the stats = orbs, they don't. You're only gaining specific stats that you're already using. You're not going full zerkers and gaining toughness and vit, you're not going very defensive and gaining crit and crit% etc, and you're also not gaining a stupid  vit bonus/+vit% scaling. We'll have to see how it plays out but I'm not too worried. All you're seeing is the 3month round of quitters spewing their next reason for leaving a game and acting as if they're going to find the perfect game, which they wont. Just let them beat their chests about all their values and how pro they are, they'll be doing it to a new crowd in 2 months when they next game "flops".

#295 G L J

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:46 AM

View Postbieberfanxoxo, on 18 November 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

My guess would be when they, or just before they introduce the newer pieces of gear, the previous will be able to be grinded by other means, badges, karma etc. While I don't like it, adding ascended stats that can be bought by badges, karma etc would mean they could be purchased right away, giving the infusion and ascended stats required for their new instance off the bat, possibly trivialising it or making it too easy and farmable which would break the pve endgame of the game, not that I care but seems sorta logical. So you may have to put up with being ~20 stats behind for a couple of months as each new piece is added which isn't too bad tbh, not ideal but not gamebreaking IF that's how they do it.

As for the stats = orbs, they don't. You're only gaining specific stats that you're already using. You're not going full zerkers and gaining toughness and vit, you're not going very defensive and gaining crit and crit% etc, and you're also not gaining a stupid  vit bonus/+vit% scaling. We'll have to see how it plays out but I'm not too worried. All you're seeing is the 3month round of quitters spewing their next reason for leaving a game and acting as if they're going to find the perfect game, which they wont. Just let them beat their chests about all their values and how pro they are, they'll be doing it to a new crowd in 2 months when they next game "flops".

I figured I should chime in. There are already quite a few known recipes for the ascended back pieces, they all basically require between 15-75 gold to make if you were to completely buy the materials. They're not TOO difficult to make, assuming you have a decent stockpile of cash. I could make one of them right now, but I'm waiting for the prices to settle down before I go for it (I'm going on a week long break from gw2 tomorrow).

5 infusion lowers the damage you take from 1/8th of your health per second to 1/16th of your health per second. An extra 5 after that lowers it down to 1/32th your health per second.

~
though, I do feel the need to point out that some of the stat combinations are pretty shitty.

t6 bones = Condition Damage, Precision, Tougness <not> Condition Damage, Power, Vitality
t6 scales = Toughness, Power, Critical Damage <not> Toughness, Power, Precision
~

The t6 fangs are pretty good, though, because they make Power, Toughness, Vitality <not> Power, Vitality, Crit Damage

Edited by G L J, 19 November 2012 - 02:52 AM.


#296 Lalnuir

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:09 AM

View PostSalticus, on 17 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

As for your strategies, there are no strategies required in WvW. It's just a zerg fest. Even if you out gear 5 people, you'll still lose in a 1v5 scenario.

Funny. I can hold my own against multiple under geared or under 80 people. Just requires a bit of running around not just jumping straight into the middle of them. Pugs will very rarely work together as a team so if you down one of them then flee you'll often get some chasing you and some stopping to ress which temporally splits up their numbers.

If you jump straight into a small group and expect to kill all of them before they kill you then yes I understand why you would be disappointed at the results.


View PostSalticus, on 17 November 2012 - 03:04 AM, said:

Sorry, but it is a zerg fest. A small roaming group of players, when faced against a large group of people, it's instant lose. 5 players with high tier gear will lose against 10 players with medium tier gear.

Gear =/= skill.
If you have 5 people in exotics on a voice chat together and you can't wipe a 10 man pug group then I'm sorry but you are not very good at pvp. When it's 5 vs 50 then it becomes almost impossible. In WvW thou you are not only going to run into people who are worse than you. Often the enemy has more numbers and is just as skilled.

#297 bieberfanxoxo

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:40 AM

View PostG L J, on 19 November 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

though, I do feel the need to point out that some of the stat combinations are pretty shitty.

t6 bones = Condition Damage, Precision, Tougness <not> Condition Damage, Power, Vitality
t6 scales = Toughness, Power, Critical Damage <not> Toughness, Power, Precision
~

The t6 fangs are pretty good, though, because they make Power, Toughness, Vitality <not> Power, Vitality, Crit Damage

I actually like alot of the new stat combos. It allows you to spread stats with more variety and less restrictions.

Some classes focus on cond damage and spreading conds via crits is important, then adding toughness to high base hp condition classes gives them so much more survivability, plus then throw in the undead rune set for 5% toughness becomes cond damage and you'll be a condition damage machine.

I'm also really excited about getting the Pow/Tough/Crit% rings for pvp. If you stack survivability you don't really need precision(not saying you need 0 from gear but I only have 3 slots with the stat and a critrate over 40%), the maint oil  gives 6%tough/4%vit to precision and you can get very nice crit rates while keeping survivability.

I'm all for more options.

Edited by bieberfanxoxo, 19 November 2012 - 03:42 AM.


#298 Celendes

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:06 AM

View PostSalticus, on 17 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:


Dungeons are not challenging? Wow.. Have you ever done one? I won't be surprised if you rage quit in the middle of it.



no they are not, i have randomly filled in for guild groups and pugs to find them stupidly easy

#299 PvPD00R

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:53 PM

I had hopes that they would implement ascended gear in a way that would not affect PvPers. They have severely let me down. I do not have the time to grind a ton of hours for the chance to get 1 ring, and maybe go make myself a backpack.

This is now feeling like they have completely gone back on their word.

It is a sad day of realization for me.

Anet let me down, and if PvPers are not given equal access to the items, I will find myself playing another game to occupy my time, and I will swear off Anet the same way I swore of Funcom after the Conan debacle.

#300 Capsigrany

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

Having PVE players in WvW with better stats than WvW players is a very strange thing.

If Anet wants to force WvW players to be also PVE players, this is just the beginning of the WvW players migration to other games.

A solution for this could be that new PVE gear stats were reduced to exotic stats while the player were in WvW.




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