49 replies to this topic

[meeks]

From the description of Ascended items it looks like a.net has essentially copied the radiance system from LOTRO.  If you did not play LOTRO bosses has a stat called dread and if you did not have enough radiance you would lose a bunch of max life and get constantly feared.  Radiance did absolutely nothing for you other than counter dread and allow you to be able to fight the boss.

This system was so terrible that even Lotro developers after doing everything they could think of to improve the system eventually scrapped.  A.net has not only broken a fundamental promise that there were be no gear progression but they are incorporating the failed design of one of the more terrible MMOs out there.

I am sorry if I am not exactly excited about this.

[Juanele]

Never really played Lotro but the infusion seems to come directly from their first game.

[Valkaire]

Infusion was a system in place in GW1 to combat the Mursaat's special skill "spectral agony." When you got your armor infused you took reduced or no damage from spectral agony (can't remember which).

[Gremlin]

Yep its straight from GW1 maybe LOTR got the idea from there.
Original source is probably far back in RPGs history.

Its good to know the community can still surprise the creators, I think they thought the High end gear would keep players happy for some time.

[B3aT]

And the difference is that the armour will be "required" only in some places, like this new dungeon, so is not a must too, but with higher stats you will get it anyway for your own sake.

[two maces]

meeks, on 13 November 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

From the description of Ascended items it looks like a.net has essentially copied the radiance system from LOTRO.  If you did not play LOTRO bosses has a stat called dread and if you did not have enough radiance you would lose a bunch of max life and get constantly feared.  Radiance did absolutely nothing for you other than counter dread and allow you to be able to fight the boss.

That sounds like a rip off of the Guild Wars 1 game where you needed Infused armor to reduce the stacking Spectral Agony debuff that high level mobs would put on you.

[Milennin]

The difference is that in Guild Wars 1, Infusion was an addition to gear you were currently wearing, not completely new gear. Also it was added onto your gear during the main story-line, and never required for end-game content.

[Lordkrall]

Milennin, on 13 November 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

The difference is that in Guild Wars 1, Infusion was an addition to gear you were currently wearing, not completely new gear. Also it was added onto your gear during the main story-line, and never required for end-game content.

Incorrect.

Firstly you needed it in order to even complete the STORY of the game. And after that it was needed for more or less every single part of War in Kryta (which is end-game)

[Milennin]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Incorrect.

Firstly you needed it in order to even complete the STORY of the game. And after that it was needed for more or less every single part of War in Kryta (which is end-game)

The story isn't endgame. Or even if you would consider it endgame, it shouldn't matter, because you automatically go through the Infusion process during the story anyway. FoW, UW, Deep, Urgoz, DoA are real endgame, and none require Infused gear.

[radamant]

meeks, on 13 November 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

From the description of Ascended items it looks like a.net has essentially copied the radiance system from LOTRO.

Not the only thing they copied.. Radiance was not good in LoTRO and i doubt it will be any different this time round.

[Lordkrall]

radamant, on 13 November 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Not the only thing they copied.. Radiance was not good in LoTRO and i doubt it will be any different this time round.

Fun fact:
This system existed in GW1 long before LotRO was even released

Edited by Lordkrall, 13 November 2012 - 11:50 AM.

[Dasryn]

how is radiance relevant to gw2 when gw2 does not have an equivalent to Dread?

[Lordkrall]

Rickter, on 13 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

how is radiance relevant to gw2 when gw2 does not have an equivalent to Dread?

People are somehow thinking Dread = Agony and therefor Radiance = Infusion

[radamant]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Fun fact:
This system existed in GW1 long before LotRO was even released

No it did not. Infused armor had you buffed to survive mursaat alpha attacks that would get you instantly killed. Radiance in LoTRO is something completely different. It was meant to counter dread from certain bosses that would cripple you to have less morale/power and eventually have you dreaded so much that you could not even move. Radiance worked against many bosses, while infused worked only vs mursaat. Also, you could use certain consumable tokens to get you over radiated with increased morale/power and you could use it anywhere in the game.

[Eon Lilu]

Rickter, on 13 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

how is radiance relevant to gw2 when gw2 does not have an equivalent to Dread?

Agony....

[Dasryn]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

People are somehow thinking Dread = Agony and therefor Radiance = Infusion

Ah.  well, we'll just have to see then.

Eon Lilu, on 13 November 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

Agony....

yes. .. . yes i see that.

[Lordkrall]

radamant, on 13 November 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

No it did not. Infused armor had you buffed to survive mursaat alpha attacks that would get you instantly killed. Radiance in LoTRO is something completely different. It was meant to counter dread from certain bosses that would cripple you to have less morale/power and eventually have you dreaded so much that you could not even move. Radiance worked against many bosses, while infused worked only vs mursaat. Also, you could use certain consumable tokens to get you over radiated with increased morale/power and you could use it anywhere in the game.

I am fully aware about the Radiance system in LotRO having played the game since Moria. The basis however is the same, so this system is not "taken from LotROs radiance system" it is taken from GW1 Infusion system.

[radamant]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

it is taken from GW1 Infusion system.

Ooook.. and infusion is taken... from?

[Lordkrall]

radamant, on 13 November 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Ooook.. and infusion is taken... from?

Some earlier RPGs and myths.

Guild Wars 1 was released years before LotRO.

Edited by Lordkrall, 13 November 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[radamant]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Some earlier RPGs and myths.

Guild Wars 1 was released years before LotRO.

so lotro radiance system could have been taken from those earlier rpg`s, not necessarilly from gw1, right? i am only trying to point the fact that comparison is somewhat wrong, there is not much connection between gw1 infusion and lotro radiance, other than they are "buffs".

[Lordkrall]

radamant, on 13 November 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

so lotro radiance system could have been taken from those earlier rpg`s, not necessarilly from gw1, right? i am only trying to point the fact that comparison is somewhat wrong, there is not much connection between gw1 infusion and lotro radiance, other than they are "buffs".

And yet the first of you posts that I quoted more or less stated that GW2 was copying LotrO, which was the whole reason for my post.

[Xellial]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

Some earlier RPGs and myths.

Guild Wars 1 was released years before LotRO.

This kind of DR system is not new, LOTR didn't make it, neither did GW1. First off, the GW1 Infusion system shouldn't even be mentioned, it's NOTHING like what's being proposed now, nor what LOTR ever had.

Second. LOTR made such a system famous. It may not have MADE the system, but it made it popular. speaking of that, hy was it so famous? Because it was so terrible. Not a good foretelling of Arenanet using the same system but on a broader scale (Whole dungeon as per various bosses.

Edited by Xellial, 13 November 2012 - 12:13 PM.

[JunoGuts]

Valkaire, on 13 November 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

Infusion was a system in place in GW1 to combat the Mursaat's special skill "spectral agony." When you got your armor infused you took reduced or no damage from spectral agony (can't remember which).

reduced dmg yes!
And also yes infusion is a GW1 system, not some thing grabbed from LOTRO. Anyway i sill agree with the OP it is a bad combat implementation.

Soon enough we might be able to upgrade our jump and dodge to perform a double jump and a double dodge!

[radamant]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

And yet the first of you posts that I quoted more or less stated that GW2 was copying LotrO, which was the whole reason for my post.

more or less? quite debatable. op stated that gw2 was copying lotro. i didn`t say it anywhere. if you look closely, i`m sure you`ll find out..

[Tevesh]

Lordkrall, on 13 November 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

I am fully aware about the Radiance system in LotRO having played the game since Moria. The basis however is the same, so this system is not "taken from LotROs radiance system" it is taken from GW1 Infusion system.

It always bothers me how people are going to kill each other for a bunch of words, when the essence of the changes is abysmally bad, however you call it. Not that I was surprised, though. Once they broke their promises at launch, more lies were bound to come.

[meeks]

I played GW1 since the day it was released and I am aware that they had infusion also.  However the mechanics between GW1 infusion and the proposed agony are completely different.  GW1 was something you did once, during your story, and then completely forgot about.  It was not something that constantly scaled up requiring you to get stronger infusions.  It was not used as a driver of item progression.

It may have the same name as infusions form GW1 but the new system is modeled on radiance.

[Lordkrall]

meeks, on 13 November 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

I played GW1 since the day it was released and I am aware that they had infusion also.  However the mechanics between GW1 infusion and the proposed agony are completely different.  GW1 was something you did once, during your story, and then completely forgot about.  It was not something that constantly scaled up requiring you to get stronger infusions.  It was not used as a driver of item progression.

It may have the same name as infusions form GW1 but the new system is modeled on radiance.

*five times

Just a minor correction.
They did change the system but originally you had to do it for each piece.

[Cherrie]

Just because the name is similar is not enough to name them the same...

GW2 Infusion does seem much more like LotRO Radiance than GW1 Infusion.

GW1 Infusion didn't have tiers and it was added to your existing equipment.
GW2 Infusion will come in Tiers somehow, and you need a completly new type of item to agument int onto, which - coincidentaly - is a new tier and marks the introduction of gear grind in GW2 as well.

[Soki]

It adds progression to an otherwise dead game.
In a shoddy, cheap way.

I'll probably play GW2 more because of it, but honestly, it feels pretty desperate.

[Resolve]

So why was this a bad system in LoTORO?