56 replies to this topic

[kaldemeo]

One of the most important principles of this game is that top stat gear is possible to get for casual players. Now they might break this principle.

Edited by kaldemeo, 13 November 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[Daesu]

kaldemeo, on 13 November 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

One of the most important principles of this game is that top stat gear is possible to get for casual players. Now they break this principle.

That doesn't matter, the fan boys will still defend their actions no matter what ArenaNet does.

Edited by Daesu, 13 November 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Eon Lilu]

Stay on topic guys, this is about how exotics are being made worthless with vertical gear grind now and in soon to be more updates.

There is already a topic about the Ascended crap.

Are exotics being made worthless with these new updates and new vertical gear grind?

Edited by Eon Lilu, 13 November 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[MikeFish]

3 months into the game people... 3 months...
I only just got my exotic rings, now I must replace (yes I do! I make my builds based on max stats and that is NOT unreasonable no matter what people say.)

If this pattern continues, slow players must spend all their time doing content they might not wanna do (specific dungeons) to achieve stuff that will get replaced shortly after they get it. Well done Anet, well done...

[RedStar]

kaldemeo, on 13 November 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

One of the most important principles of this game is that top stat gear is possible to get for casual players. Now they break this principle.

You can complain about this new tier and the possibility that this won't be the last.
But until you really see the different ways of obtaining those ascended items, you can't complain about the difficulty about obtaining those items.

[G L J]

Katreyn, on 13 November 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

This is kinda what I am thinking too.  The extra stats may purely just exist to make up for the loss of gems/runes.  

The extra stats on the ring account for the gem. There's a good chance that the armor is going to have unmodifiable runes as well.

RedStar, on 13 November 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

You can complain about this new tier and the possibility that this won't be the last.
But until you really see the different ways of obtaining those ascended items, you can't complain about the difficulty about obtaining those items.

It doesn't matter how easy/hard they are to acquire. The fact of the matter is that it's the first of potentially many  levels of new gear grind.

Edited by G L J, 13 November 2012 - 05:40 PM.

[Daesu]

Eon Lilu, on 13 November 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Stay on topic guys, this is about how exotics are being made worthless with vertical gear grind now and in soon to be more updates.

There is already a topic about the Ascended crap.

Are exotics being made worthless with these new updates and new vertical gear grind?

The way I interpreted the released info is that Ascended items stats about = Exotic item stats + upgrade.  However, Ascended items also has an infusion slot and infusion is needed to combat Agony in the new content.

I am worried about how difficult it would be to get these Ascended items because you can get Exotics through a number of means, e.g. dungeons, WvW, Crafting, etc.  I know you can get the Ascended back from the mystic forge recipe, but everything else Ascended seem to be only obtainable from playing the new content.  This means Orr (and everywhere else) would probably have fewer people when this update is released and Exotics would drop in value.

Interesting to note that even if Legendaries are brought up to the same stats as Ascended, they still do not have that infusion slot, which makes them less versatile than Ascended items since Legendaries would not be able to help you combat Agony in the new content.  Or maybe they would add an infusion slot to Legendaries?  I don't know.

Edited by Daesu, 13 November 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[kaldemeo]

Eon Lilu, on 13 November 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

...Are exotics being made worthless with these new updates and new vertical gear grind?...

My guess is this:

Level 80 exotics will be worth what lover level exotics are now.

Rare skins (high price) exotics will drop big time

Edited by kaldemeo, 13 November 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[GrandmaFunk]

Since Rare armour is not currently worthless, despite the existence of an another tier above it, I think it's safe to conclude that Exotics will not be worthless once Ascended equipment comes out.

[Krazzar]

Cereal, on 13 November 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Why? You're climbing a mountain. A mountain a certain company said was 15,000 ft at the summit. You get to the top and then you get a phone call from the company, "Yeah, we lied. It's actually 18,000 ft."

Why do people need more everything? What will higher stats seriously do for you besides put you at an advantage to other players? (for an undetermined amount of time). Come the first expansion, they will have GODLY tiered items, 10% better than the last tier. Its the cheapest form of additional content.

Games need progression to thrive, but this is not the way to do it.

I'd avoid making analogies if I were you. You're saying you climbed an additional 3,000 feet without noticing, which I agree with, but I know you meant it to be a problem. If you enjoy the time and actually want things to do this isn't  a problem, it's been expected for a long time now.

What people say they want and the actual objectively observed behaviors are drastically different. People say "I hate grind and progression" but that's all they do and ask for. Come the first expansion they'll have additional levels and that supports additional gear because of the progression built into new zones.

What progression were you thinking would be better? This is literally the least damaging and dangerous progression to the game, and if you haven't noticed we're getting a whole new game mode (with a base of 72 variations not counting boss spawns or difficulty scaling) and one more zone to go with it.

Edited by Krazzar, 13 November 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[RedStar]

G L J, on 13 November 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

It doesn't matter how easy/hard they are to acquire. The fact of the matter is that it's the first of potentially many  levels of new gear grind.

Actually it does matter, a lot. If it's easy as killing a rat to get those new tiers, few players will complain since they can get it quite easily. The only complain will be that they have to keep using T-stones because those new skins won't be to their liking.

Now if those new items can only be obtained by doing an incredibly hard dungeon, that like, let's say, Anet expects only 10% of the playerbase to be able to do (like the Clocktower), at that those new items are more or less required to do the dungeon Anet introduces in 3 months, then yes, you have a lot of reasons to complain.

[Cereal]

Ilthuain, on 13 November 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

So the complaints are due to what may be, not what is or will be?

You missed the point, I apologize for not being clear enough.

From a business standpoint, gear progression is good. You bring back players that have quit or were bored.

However, from a business standpoint gear progression is bad. They're going to lose a lot of they're players due to " not keeping up with the herd". I don't want to invest time in order to have fun. I want to have fun with the time I have. GW1 did it right to some extent, get to level 20, get 5k max armor, spend a little more on max weapons. After that, the ENTIRE WORLD was open to you.

If these types of updates continue, you're going to have a very similar playstyle to other MMOs, something most players wanted to avoid when buying this game. Sure its just 6 items for now, but what will it be in a year?

Edited by Cereal, 13 November 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[MikeFish]

Worthless to me. One among millions of players who strive to have the best stats.

[AureliusRex]

GrandmaFunk, on 13 November 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Since Rare armour is not currently worthless, despite the existence of an another tier above it, I think it's safe to conclude that Exotics will not be worthless once Ascended equipment comes out.

Rare gear is dirt cheap.  You can get a full set for less than a gold.  This cannot be said for exotic gear.  Rare gear was the "starter set" for level 80, exotics were supposed to be the finish set.  Now you have a new finish set so either exotics become irrelevant, or they become dirt cheap and rare gear becomes irrelevant.  In any case, one tier of gear becomes obsolete.

[Azure Skye]

Here i called it first, Legendary armor will be added later to the people whining about the Ascended armor now. =)

Edited by Azure Skye, 13 November 2012 - 05:54 PM.

[thelast]

Greyhawk, on 13 November 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

WvW is zerg vs zerg… more people = more win.  Doesn’t matter what gear you have…….

You really don't know what you are talking. Couple of lvl 80s with good gear and stats could turn the tide of battle against a larger group of newbies almost any time. I recently changed my gear to exotic and my damage, survivability and performance in general sky rocketed.

ANET after 3 months is giving very bad signs of making GW2 in to another generic MMO. Making everything obsolete with every update is not the right way of game developing.

[Milennin]

Cereal, on 13 November 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

Sure its just 6 items for now, but what will it be in a year?

12 items. 6 for armour, 6 for jewellery. And a lot of people play more than 1 character.

[Cereal]

Krazzar, on 13 November 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

I'd avoid making analogies if I were you.

I should re-word it.

You reach the top, only to find it was a false summit and now you must find the time to climb another 3000 ft. You didn't really enjoy the last thousand feet from what you thought was the end, how will you enjoy this next 3000?

Milennin, on 13 November 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

12 items. 6 for armour, 6 for jewellery. And a lot of people play more than 1 character.

You're forgetting weapons. For warriors that another 14 items to grind for, if you really wanted all the weapons.

And who says they won't just add another tier in another three months?

Edited by Cereal, 13 November 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[Daesu]

thelast, on 13 November 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

You really don't know what you are talking. Couple of lvl 80s with good gear and stats could turn the tide of battle against a larger group of newbies almost any time. I recently changed my gear to exotic and my damage, survivability and performance in general sky rocketed.

So you are saying that performance in this game DOES depend on your gear.

Edited by Daesu, 13 November 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[thelast]

Daesu, on 13 November 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

So you are saying that performance in this game DOES depend on your gear.

To some extend yes it does, thats why it's not very good to give us better and better gear with time. It is an advantage.

[AureliusRex]

RedStar, on 13 November 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

Actually it does matter, a lot. If it's easy as killing a rat to get those new tiers, few players will complain since they can get it quite easily. The only complain will be that they have to keep using T-stones because those new skins won't be to their liking.

Now if those new items can only be obtained by doing an incredibly hard dungeon, that like, let's say, Anet expects only 10% of the playerbase to be able to do (like the Clocktower), at that those new items are more or less required to do the dungeon Anet introduces in 3 months, then yes, you have a lot of reasons to complain.

I'd also like to point out that if its easy to get, there's no real reason for adding it, and if its hard to get you end up with haves and havenots.

[Chava Blue]

My exotics aren't worthless. They have exactly the same stats they had three days ago.

Will exotics in general become worthless? Well, that depends several factors, I think.

How difficult are ascended items to obtain? If they're very difficult, a certain percentage of the playerbase will decide they aren't worth the effort or make them a long-term goal rather than an active goal - and those players will still want exotic pieces because they're relatively attainable. There will be some drop in price for exotics, because there will be at least some drop in demand, but the bottom won't necessarily fall out of the market if exotics still fill the niche of being a more affordable alternative.

Will the difficulty of future content scale to make ascended items' stats necessary? I think that's unlikely, for a couple of reasons. The stat difference between ascended and exotic isn't huge - it's smaller than the differences between individual players who have simply allocated their points and options differently. Scaling based on ascended items would have to be so minor that no one would really notice. I don't see ascended stuff suddenly becoming essentially required to progress in the game as a whole. As it is now, whatever you can do in exotics, you can probably do in masterwork and rare, and I think this will be the same sort of thing.

Could that change in the future if this trend continues, though? Yes, definitely. So I think it's too early to call that one as safe... but I also think it's too early to predict exotic gear not being powerful enough to handle future content. It just depends on what direction things go in from here.

I don't think there's any immediate need to worry about exotics no longer being viable for max level characters. In the future, though? Could happen. We'll just have to wait and see.

[RedStar]

Azure Skye, on 13 November 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Here i called it first, Legendary armor will be added later to the people whining about the Ascended armor now. =)

I kind of hope so. At least it will never be outdated...

AureliusRex, on 13 November 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

I'd also like to point out that if its easy to get, there's no real reason for adding it, and if its hard to get you end up with haves and havenots.

Yep, they have to find the perfect difficulty, but since it's impossible to find, each one will have to wait and see.

[GrandmaFunk]

AureliusRex, on 13 November 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

...Now you have a new finish set so either exotics become irrelevant, or they become dirt cheap and rare gear becomes irrelevant.  In any case, one tier of gear becomes obsolete.

or exotic becomes a middle step that's attainable by more players.

Ppl get too easily caught up in all-or-nothing predictions

[lmaonade]

Ascendeds might be soulbound on acquire type equipment that requires individual effort to obtain, if that's the case then exotics will still be prevalent and a definite go-to before attempting to get Ascended equipment

[Daesu]

Chava Blue, on 13 November 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

Will the difficulty of future content scale to make ascended items' stats necessary? I think that's unlikely, for a couple of reasons. The stat difference between ascended and exotic isn't huge - it's smaller than the differences between individual players who have simply allocated their points and options differently. Scaling based on ascended items would have to be so minor that no one would really notice. I don't see ascended stuff suddenly becoming essentially required to progress in the game as a whole. As it is now, whatever you can do in exotics, you can probably do in masterwork and rare, and I think this will be the same sort of thing.

Will the difficulty of future content scale to make ascended items' stats necessary?  Yes, that is already happening.  They said you need infusion in order to combat Agony damage.  If this Agony damage is anything similar to "Spectral Agony" damage in GW1 (from their info, it sounds like it is), then I would say you really need Infusion to play those content (as in GW1 except GW1 infusion is a lot easier to obtain).

[Frakov]

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