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I absolutely do not like this..Gear grind in GW

gear grind w/ ascended gear

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#1 Zhaitan

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:41 PM

Quote

In November we’ll unveil the first Ascended items. This new rarity type falls between Exotic and Legendary on the spectrum of rarity and has slightly higher stats than Exotics.

Source: https://www.guildwar...-ascended-gear/

For me, more acceptable approach whould have been as follows:

To bridge the Exotic to Legendary gap:

1. Introduce infusion slots on existing items. Expand the same concept for the future content.
2. Introduce different upgrade components like runes that provide variety of effects, defense (such as KD resists, daze resists etc.) and offense benefits (Less chance to miss owing to elevation differences, more critical chances etc.) that can be added to these item slots without impacting the stat numbers.

Posted Image

Why I hate this "slightly higher stats" concept?

1. It introduces power creep way too early in the lifecycle of this MMO franchise. Given how old this game is, its like Nightfall just happened too early for this franchise.
2. The game is easy enough. Why would you introduce higher stat weapons that will simply murder the difficulty level of the current world mobs? I'd not even touch the issues that will impact the current dungeons. There are just too many existing already.

Why I hate this "Agony" condition?

1. Limiting this condition to only to the Fractal of Mists dungeon funnels the whole playerbase to one area/dungeon leaving the already empty world to its own fate.

Quote

Players will be able to acquire Ascended Rings in the Fractals of the Mists dungeon

2. It also marks the begining of the shift in the core of GW franchise philosophy.

Quote

The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).

Yeah, more gear to grind to grind more gear! And Mudflation begins..

What probably would have been sufficient for now?

1. Add “Storymode” dungeon content where players could get infused, much like GW1’s infusion mission mechanic, without resorting to grinding new gear.

2. Improve availability rate of the Legendary precursors.

Quote

We also have plans to add more fun ways to acquire Legendary precursor items with a more “scavenger hunt” feel than they are acquired currently.

Then maybe work on the following:

3. Add more PvP content - formats and maps. GW is a great game not because it had great PvE Storyline or missions or had more mobs to kill. It is a fun game because you can hop in and do any format of PvP that you want without having to dedicate a massive amount of time to enjoy it even when many formats were quite difficult to master.

4. Rethink WvW and make it so that more and more people participate in it without being motivated to complete the World Exploration or to do monthly or to farm BoH by doing jump puzzles while enjoying the content without being killed by invisible enemy zergers.

I did not spend $149 on this game to master the art of out-gearing 99% of the population as fast as I can so that I can grind more gear. I am very disappointed that GW2 has chosen to become another gear grind MMO. Is this WoW 2.0 since there are no Guild Wars in GuildWars 2?

It's really very disheartening. Now, flame me all you want.

Edited by Zhaitan, 13 November 2012 - 05:43 PM.


#2 Graystone

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:47 PM

Meh, two things.

1) You're taking this too seriously
2) The sky is not falling chicken little
3) You did spend $149, probably the same amount as me, do I regret the money and time invested? Yes, a little more every day. What can we do about it? Learn to love the game's silly quirks or move on.

#3 Uhhsam

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:12 PM

It's weird how people can buy a game and feel they've completed it, but when the developers add more content for them to work towards, they feel like the money they spent on the game is being wasted.  If anything, you are getting more value.

Whatever, they'll spend more money on a new game and finish that in a few days, and repeat the process.  I'll be content to keep getting more and more value out of the money I spent on GW2.

#4 Hector

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:17 PM

View PostUhhsam, on 13 November 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

It's weird how people can buy a game and feel they've completed it, but when the developers add more content for them to work towards, they feel like the money they spent on the game is being wasted.  If anything, you are getting more value.

Whatever, they'll spend more money on a new game and finish that in a few days, and repeat the process.  I'll be content to keep getting more and more value out of the money I spent on GW2.
More value? What kind of cognitive dissonance is that and how how can I convince myself that gear treadmill=more content?

#5 jonasklk

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostHector, on 13 November 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

More value? What kind of cognitive dissonance is that and how how can I convince myself that gear treadmill=more content?

Because the new items are only a small part of all the things to be included in the patch -.-

#6 Hector

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:21 PM

The new patch introduces a gear treadmill. I don't see much, if any, value in that.

#7 Kratimas

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

And you created another thread because the other 7 about this very topic weren't good enough for you?

#8 Ilthuain

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

A few things:

1.  A few extra stat points in a slot does not trivialize existing content.  I have run TA explorable in greens and yellows, and I have run it in full exotics.  I do not feel as if I am obliterating the old content because of my slightly increased damage and my slightly increased survivability.  Being able to take 2.8 hits from knights compared to being able to take 2.2 hits from knights hasn't significantly changed my playing experience.

2.  Fractals will not drain all players to it.  Some players will love it, others won't.  Personally, I like my content to have an end, so I will probably do it a few times, but it won't be all I do.

3. There are already SO MANY TOPICS to complain about how these rings cause GW2 to be the biggest trashcan product in the history of entertainment.  Why not post your complaints there?

#9 Quietus

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

I find it funny how some people almost make it sound as if there wasn't already gear grinding in the game. Legendaries are just handed to you on a silver platter if you happen to like the look of them?

#10 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

I for one am hopeful for several things:
1. New armor skins, Thief tired of looking like a flasher or stolen watch salesman.

2. "Complimentary" gear that works with current sets not needing to carry another set for each situation.

3. Your choice, you don't want to face Agony or Ascended grind, don't. I played GW1 for two+ years before infusing armor. I didn't need to because I didn't face Mursaat. It's your choice to go into the new "deep" dungeons.

4. New ways to get Legendary, quite frankly the current prices of precursors are insulting and nearly impossible to the average gamer who doesn't want to spend RL money in game.

5. Eventual Legendary Armor, dungeon armors (except CoF animation) are meh compared to Legendary Weapons.

We have seen Anet working toward the game being successful for the long run. I hope they have a long term plan and are not just shooting from the hip or responding to whiners.

#11 Sieghildr

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:35 PM

View PostQuietus, on 13 November 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

I find it funny how some people almost make it sound as if there wasn't already gear grinding in the game. Legendaries are just handed to you on a silver platter if you happen to like the look of them?

That's cosmetic grinding. This is stat grinding.

#12 Captain Bulldozer

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

One thing that made GW1 great was that, at max level, all weapons of a certain type (swords, daggers, staffs, etc) had essentially the same stats.  Those stats could be modified using inscriptions and mods to cater to one kind of build or another, but everyone was basically on an equal footing.  Rares (Golds) were fundamentally no better than Uncommons (Purples) or Commons (whites) except in that the best mods would only drop on the rare stuff (which dropped quite easily).  As soon as GW2 split "rare" into "Masterwork, Rare and exotic", each with stats slightly better than the previous, a gear treadmill was introduced.

I can understand not liking that, especially if you're a heavy PvP person,  but complaining about these new items doesn't seem relevant at this point.  All they're doing is introducing another level to the existing treadmill.  

My personal preference would be that Anet return to the principles that made them successful in the first place... the ones that they built GW1 around and the ones that kept GW1 players playing for years.  In GW2 I worry that Anet is increasingly losing its way and trying to become just another sub-par MMO company.

#13 Runkleford

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:56 PM

View PostQuietus, on 13 November 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

I find it funny how some people almost make it sound as if there wasn't already gear grinding in the game. Legendaries are just handed to you on a silver platter if you happen to like the look of them?

Legendaries are cosmetic only. What worries people now is the start of stat grinding. Please try to keep up.

#14 Quietus

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:59 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 13 November 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Legendaries are cosmetic only. What worries people now is the start of stat grinding. Please try to keep up.

I assume you're saying that if it's cosmetic it's optional. That doesn't change the fact that the concept of gear grinding already exists in the game.

#15 Runkleford

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:02 PM

View PostQuietus, on 13 November 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

I assume you're saying that if it's cosmetic it's optional. That doesn't change the fact that the concept of gear grinding already exists in the game.

Again, the thing that people doesn't want is stat grinding. For you to say there's already gear grinding shows that you lack the ability to distinguish between gear grinding that is merely cosmetic and gear grinding that is stat based. And yes one of these is purely optional. I'll give you a chance to figure out which is which.

#16 Valkaire

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

View PostHector, on 13 November 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

The new patch introduces a gear treadmill. I don't see much, if any, value in that.

At least for now that gear treadmill doesn't affect content accessibility. Sure, now there's another level of gear. I can hope that they won't add further tiers into the game but it's not that big of a difference. Maybe exotic prices will now go down, making them even more accessible to the crowds of people who completed dungeons and content in yellows.

You can still do this dungeon without ascended armor. You only need infusions once you get relatively far into the dungeon. People who like gear progression get something new to grind, on the way earning gear that will let them get into the even more difficult areas of the dungeon. People who don't like to grind for new gear don't have to. I know people who didn't pay a cent for exotic gear and just ran around in yellows and had no issues completing the content. As long as they don't start pushing this into a need better gear to complete X content I'm fine with this and you should be to. Yes, I'm scared as hell and hope they don't take it any further but what can you do. Enough of an uproar over this has been had that they know their playerbase doesn't want more gear grind and we can only hope they listen to us. Until then, the only thing we can do is enjoy the new and old content and twiddle our fingers while we hope this doesn't turn into the next tiered-gear-progression MMO.

#17 Red_Falcon

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

Gear treadmill has come, and Anet said they'll release more tiers in future.
Deal with it or play something else, they're not going to change their minds.

#18 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:07 PM

Gear grinding in the way it is presented in this thread existed in GW1 but no one remembers because there were no level req on weapons and armor.
Those of us that remember that first character and buying the highest armor and weapon at each town we got to as we played through the game. GW2 is no different except for the level req on stuff now. You can't just give your alts a max weapon and take a ferry to the Docks for max armor now.

#19 maraxusofk

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:10 PM

This is not the same game I thought I was buying and waiting for.

#20 Roybe

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:12 PM

isn't the 'gear treadmill' based on Legendaries being the 'max/perfect' and everything else a step below, but moving towards these items?

#21 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

OHMYGOD +5 power and precision on a single item! You're gonna PWN SO HARD!

#22 Dahk

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:15 PM



#23 Arewn

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

Roybe
A gear treadmill is the cyclical need to frequently replace your gear in order to be viable to participate in new content, as your old gear becomes obsolete.

#24 Frakov

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:17 PM

Please use existing threads such as this one to avoid cluttering the forum.




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