Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
* * * * * 18 votes

My Final Axe/Mace DPS Dungeon Build

warrior build dps axe greatsword dungeon

  • Please log in to reply
456 replies to this topic

#1 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:52 PM

Primary DPS GS + Axe/Mace Warrior for Organized Groups
Update 5/17:
If you've visited the Guardian forums at all, you may have seen my thread which explains the guardian build I use for all my dungeon runs:
http://www.guildwars...guardian-build/
and now my mesmer build as well:
http://www.guildwars...dungeon-groups/

I have been asked quite a bit what the primary warrior in my group runs though, so today I bring you the warrior build that we currently use for dungeons. This build provides huge dps for both the group and as a primary dps class. Due to the recent patch making Axe 5 much less effective for burst healing and constantly proccing for life steal damage, GS + Axe/Mace gives you higher damage potential and the same survivability as my old Axe/Mace + Axe/Axe build. This allows me to utilize the best burst and rotation for various bosses and mobs depending on if I can get 100B + WW off or I need the auto attack + interrupt on Axe/Mace, or a combination of both.

The video guide can be found as follows:


Also you can find this build in action on my youtube page with various dungeons from guardian, mesmer, and/or warrior perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/strife025

Overview:
This build has been tweaked quite a few times to get to something that my group feels is the best DPS build for dungeons, based on patch and balance changes. This is a build specific for dungeons, not for WvW or PvP, so I would not refer to this for those instances. It provides huge amounts of sustained damage over the course of boss fights, provides damage benefits to your entire group, and gives you very good micro-level mobility and a way to interrupt and remove defiant stacks. While I do prefer the Axe/Mace playstyle a bit more, I do realize that a combination of both weapons gives you the flexibility and overall dps benefit by using optimal rotations. This allows you to get the superior skill damage rotation from GS with 100B+WW, and the superior auto attack dps and added utility from vuln stacking and a knockdown with A/M.

Build and Equipment:
http://gw2buildcraft...y.69.6j.61.6m|e
If you are running a longbow with Axe/Mace for some fights, you also have the ability to switch Slashing Power to Dual Wielding.

This build is focused on dps, and rightly so, warrior has some of the highest sustained damage in the game while not being made of "glass". While this game has been designed to allow a mix of various classes capable of completing dungeons, it is quite clear that a pseudo-trinity still exists and certain group comps make dungeon runs quick and painless (as proved by my various dungeon videos). One of these parts is a dps class that not only provides good direct damage by themselves, but also contributes to overall group damage while not constantly being downed and taking away total dps, by both losing your own dps, and causing someone else to res you. This is the part that this warrior build provides.

As far as gear goes, a balanced build between knights and berserker is based on the below stat comparison on what you lose per 1% of crit damage.
The tradeoff for 1% of crit damage is equal to:
  • 5 stat points - upgrade slot of trinkets and backpack
  • 7 points - Ascended Back Piece
  • 8.5 stat points - Ascended Rings
  • 8.7 stat points - Ascended Earrings
  • 9.4 stat points - Ascended Amulet
  • 10 stat points- traits (not an equipment, but listed for comparison)
  • 12 stat points - glove, shoulder and boots
  • 12.8 stat points - 1H weapons and amulet
  • 13.33 stat points - Earring
  • 14 stat points - Backpack (rare version from guild armorsmith)
  • 14.22 stat points - 2H weapons
  • 14.4 stat points - Coat (Chest)
  • 16 stat points - Ring, helm and legging
This stat breakdown will let you maximize your % crit while balancing for survivability with Knight's pieces. How much toughness you need depends on the group and player. I currently have everything berserker now that I am comfortable with dungeons, the groups I run with, and my own skill level. When I first started playing warrior, I did have the Chest, Helm, and Legs in knights for some added toughness, but slowly switched off of it. You do want to be careful and not wear too much toughness though, because this will cause you to pull agro more which will ultimately make you take even more damage.

For armor sockets, I now use 6 scholar runes, you need about 25% uptime on 90%+ health to make them better then ruby orbs. The cheaper alternative of course is 6 ruby orbs. Yes I used to use 2x Monk runes just for some extra boon duration, but for maximizing your dungeon speed clears for some of the videos I make it's better to go pure dps since you don't really need the boon duration in groups, it's more beneficial for soloing.

For weapons, I use Sigil of Force on Axe and Greatsword (or specific dungeon sigil if you prefer), Sigil of Bloodlust for power stacks on mace, and then a backup mace with Sigil of Battle and Sigil of Night when I have 25 bloodlust stacks or I'm doing a dungeon like CoF1 where I won't really have the chance to build bloodlust. It seems that Accuracy and Force now stack together, so Accuracy on mace for when you already have 25 bloodlust stacks and aren't in a nighttime dungeon is probably better then battle when you can already reach 25 might with a 1guard/3war/1mes group.

As far as other weapons go, they all pretty much have Force on them since I don't use them much and Force is a pretty cheap, generic, all around good sigil. You do want a shield with Sigil of Energy though, for both the extra dodges when running through trash when you would equip a shield for Invuln time, and also for any instances you find where you need more dodges. Your go-to ranged weapon is going to be Longbow, which offers higher direct damage then Rifle at the cost of 300 range untraited.

As far as crit chance goes:
Your base crit chance (full ascended/scholar) is going to be 51%
20% from Fury bumps that´╗┐ to 71%
9% from heightened focus goes to 80%
170 precision from banner pushes it to 87%
70 precision from Omnomberry Pies/Ghosts pushes it to 90% (or more from butternut squash soup).

So as far as food goes, Omnom Pies/Ghosts are still the best regen/life steal food in a high crit build. It does have a 1s internal cooldown now, but offers more life gain then any regen food assuming you are actually doing damage and critting. If you do not need the lifesteal, then something like Curry Butternut Squash Soup will offer more dps overall now that there is a cooldown on proccing lifesteal which also does damage. So food is more situational on what you are doing now.

Skills:
Skills which you will be using a majority of the time:
  • Healing Surge is much better then Healing Signet in this build, since you usually have 3 bars of adrenaline and you no longer have signet cooldown like in my older builds
  • For Great Justice is one of the best skills for dungeons, increasing the damage of your entire party with 100% uptime on at least 3 stacks of might with 0 cast time to take away from your direct damage
  • Every class should always have at least 1 stun break and a way to remove conditions, Shake it Off provides that for warrior for heavy condition fights, or Frenzy for fights where you don't need condition removal. Further condition removal comes from teammates (i.e. Guardian), because dungeons are a teamwork based activity.
  • Banners are huge benefits to the group, it has near 100% uptime with the trait, provides swiftness for running through trash mobs, and provides overall damage and survivability to your group.
  • Signet of Rage should be obvious. Along with For Great Justice, you always have Fury up which is one of the most important boons for a dps role.
These skills are not set in stone though, many of the stances are situational as well.

For a few bosses where you need stability, as well as the Harpy Fractal, I will take Balanced Stance instead of a banner or Shake it Off.
If you know you won't really need condition removal, you can also take Frenzy instead of Shake it Off to really maximize your dps. Also to maximize dps, we usually run OMM instead of Banner of Tactics now.
Finally in a few of the fractals at 30+, you will probably want to take Endure Pain instead of a Banner so you are able to burst down some of the harder groups without getting downed.

Switching to the appropriate skills for a given situation will just come with experience, knowing what you can get away with, and what will provide the overall best dps in consideration with being interrupted or downed.

Mechanics:
This is where I get into the usefulness of GS and Axe/Mace and the proper rotations you should be using.

GS has superior dps with the 100B and Whirlwind rotation. The downside is obviously that you are rooted for 3.5s while using 100B, and the auto attack dps of GS outside of this combo is inferior to Axe. When running in an organized group with an anchor, alot of the downside to the root is mitigated, while you still may need to "break" the animation of 100B to dodge sometimes, you can still get the full rotation off most of the time outside of some instances in high level fractals. If a mob is against a wall, WW offers by far the highest dps out of all your skills while evading at the same time.

Now the benefit of Axe/Mace is that it has superior auto attack dps with Axe, especially when you don't need the vulnerability that comes with the GS auto attack, the ability to front load 8 stacks of vulnerability with Axe 2/Mace 4, and the knockdown which is especially useful for bursting down packs of silver mobs.

With fast hands, you get the benefit of both the GS and Axe/Mace strengths, while mitigating their weaknesses. Fast hands will allow you to get the 100B+WW combo off which takes ~5s which has the highest dps potential out of all your skills, then instantly swap to Axe/Mace to get the superior auto attack dps and utility while 100B+WW is on cooldown. Once your 5s weapon swap is off cooldown again, you can switch back to GS and repeat the rotation all over again.

If you are in a PuG and find yourself needing more range, you can still take Longbow for your swap. First it has more direct damage then Rifle which benefits from a crit/damage build and it has some nice AoE burst with the 3rd skill. The tradeoff is that you have 300 less range which I don't really find a problem most of the time and you do have the option to trait it if needed. I will also use A/M + Longbow in a few instances at high level fractals, specifically for bosses like Mossman, the last Shaman Fractal boss, and the last boss of Dredge Fractal. In these instances, I find that Axe/Mace will allow me to burst in and melee better then GS, because alot of the times you won't have the opportunity to be rooted for the entire 3.5s to get the full benefit of GS. As mentioned earlier, this is where you would swap Slashing Power for Dual Wielding in the Strength line.

Conclusion:
Hopefully this guide helps to show what a Warrior can bring to a dungeon group. Their sustained damage, high damage traits, and offensive boons is a huge benefit for the ability of a group to quickly and efficiently clear dungeons. They are basically the direct counterpart to what a Guardian can bring for group survivability. Don't let the lack of a pure trinity and uneducated dungeon runners let you think that classes and roles don't exist. If you want to run dungeons easily and efficiently there are still optimal classes and roles just like any MMO. The pseudo trinity is still tank/dps/support as it currently stands, and this warrior build is the prime example of the dps role in a group. It provides both excellent direct damage and damage for your entire group without sacrificing cast-times to give this group support. This trinity is much looser then most other MMOs, but it still exists in GW2 if you want to be optimal. If you think otherwise, you probably haven't run dungeons in an efficient, team-work based group before.

Thanks for reading, and good luck out there.

Old Guides:
Spoiler

Spoiler

Edited by Strife025, 18 May 2013 - 12:07 AM.


#2 dawdler

dawdler

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 740 posts
  • Server:Piken Square

Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

Hm, I like the axe/mace combo so I might give this build a try. Or at least, as far as my dwindling amount of gold will take me, lol

#3 Wolfgang

Wolfgang

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:17 PM

This is a really nice build with the quick endurance refills, i've been trying to run axe/x in dungeons and trying to rely on a half arsed damage/shout heals build, I will try this out. thanks for sharing

#4 paradiselight

paradiselight

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 142 posts
  • Server:Stormbluff Isle

Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

I'm actually the one that posted the crit damage vs stat tradeoff to reddit. I want mah credit! :P

Jokes aside, my third character is a warrior (after guardian and thief) and I have only got it to level 30+. Even at low levels, for PvE, if GS is a faceroll, then axe at main hand is um.. even more faceroll than faceroll? GS provides nice mobility but you could already get perma-swiftness with signet of rage and warhorn offhand. It's also less boring than GS since axe AA doesn't root you in place. I have more or less set my sights on using axe/something in dungeons once I gear my warrior properly.

I have given quite some thoughts to the traits, and since I'm the person that min/max a lot, I'm gonna hijack this thread with some theorycraft
1) I couldn't believe how much axe auto-attack is hitting at first. I look around and found out that if we hold other factors constant, then the damage of a full chain of axe autoattack is actually equal to the full channel of Hundred Blade's damage minus the last hit. Omghax! :surprised:

2) Dual wielding gives more damage than axe mastery. Axe mastery increases your damage by

0.1C/(1+C*D)

where C is your crit chance, and D is the crit damage % (if you have +104% to crit damage bonus, then D = 0.5+1.04 = 1.54). Since this is an increasing function of C, we take C = 0.93 for best case scenario and D = 1.54 to get

0.1(0.93)/(1+0.93(1.54)) = 0.0382 or 3.82% percent increase in damage

So the 5% increase in damage from dual-wielding wins out in this case.

3) If you ever have to deal with condition heavy situations, such as constantly reapplied burning, you can always change mace -> warhorn, empowered -> quick breathing, and convert burning to fury for more party-DPS + condition removal. Dual wielding is useless in this case and axe mastery is better of course.

#5 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:58 PM

View Postparadiselight, on 13 November 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

I'm actually the one that posted the crit damage vs stat tradeoff to reddit. I want mah credit! :P

Jokes aside, my third character is a warrior (after guardian and thief) and I have only got it to level 30+. Even at low levels, for PvE, if GS is a faceroll, then axe at main hand is um.. even more faceroll than faceroll? GS provides nice mobility but you could already get perma-swiftness with signet of rage and warhorn offhand. It's also less boring than GS since axe AA doesn't root you in place. I have more or less set my sights on using axe/something in dungeons once I gear my warrior properly.

I have given quite some thoughts to the traits, and since I'm the person that min/max a lot, I'm gonna hijack this thread with some theorycraft
1) I couldn't believe how much axe auto-attack is hitting at first. I look around and found out that if we hold other factors constant, then the damage of a full chain of axe autoattack is actually equal to the full channel of Hundred Blade's damage minus the last hit. Omghax! :surprised:

2) Dual wielding gives more damage than axe mastery. Axe mastery increases your damage by

0.1C/(1+C*D)

where C is your crit chance, and D is the crit damage % (if you have +104% to crit damage bonus, then D = 0.5+1.04 = 1.54). Since this is an increasing function of C, we take C = 0.93 for best case scenario and D = 1.54 to get

0.1(0.93)/(1+0.93(1.54)) = 0.0382 or 3.82% percent increase in damage

So the 5% increase in damage from dual-wielding wins out in this case.

3) If you ever have to deal with condition heavy situations, such as constantly reapplied burning, you can always change mace -> warhorn, empowered -> quick breathing, and convert burning to fury for more party-DPS + condition removal. Dual wielding is useless in this case and axe mastery is better of course.

Ah lol, thanks for the reddit post.

I ran some scenarios in excel, and you are correct, dual wielding is better. It's something I didn't realize, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. Basically, if you had base 1.50 crit damage modifier then axe mastery would be better, up to about 230% and assuming base damage increase from other sources of 1.20. But since my crit damage modifier is already so high, then the base damage increase that comes from dual wielding actually works out to about 1% more damage then axe mastery.

So basically as your crit damage modifier gets higher, you start to lose effectiveness of axe mastery for dual wielding. Also as your base damage increase from other sources increases, dual wielding starts to lose effectiveness. But with the stats of my current build, dual wielding is a bit better.

I will change it, sounds like I need to re-record my video then ~_~

Edited by Strife025, 14 November 2012 - 12:03 AM.


#6 Shoros

Shoros

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 619 posts
  • Location:Switzerland
  • Server:Kodash

Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:17 AM

I like it :)
My warrior is currently lvl52 and I'm already thinking about my "endgame" build. Of course I would like to be adaptive, but it's very costly as a Warrior as you have so many choices for weapons (my main is an Engineer, so that was kinda cheap...)

I will probably gear towards this build first and then go for a Hammer + S/S build for WvW. The good thing is that the build you presented also looks very good for WvW (Longbow rocks, Axe/Mace has very good damage and some CC).

Thanks for the post.


Edit:
@paradiselight:
Haha, exactly my thoughts. I was using GS for the first 30-35 levels (tried also other stuff) and was pretty sure to use it after 40 (Forceful Greatsword). I found it so boring that after 2 levels I triead again Axe/Something (Axe/Axe is awesome for leveling IMHO). It's so much more fun and the damageoutput is huge. I'm running around with A/A + Hammer at the moment, it's so much fun and the CC from Hammer is very good vs. large amounts of mobs.

Edited by Shoros, 14 November 2012 - 09:20 AM.


#7 KrayZ33

KrayZ33

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 136 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

good build really

build might work with control weapon sets aswell if someone really wants to go that direction



1 question though... I might've skipped that part in the video but its a real pain to get the info I want (why a video in the first place? more work for you and also alot harder to understand/ re-"read")

but what Sigils are you using for dungeons?

you mentioned 5% crit + precision-stacks and whats the third? and on which weapons do you use it?

my guess would be:
5% crit in mace, precision on bow and swap-leech on axe for 9k burst crit heals? (if I'm not mistaken its 100% dmg lifesteal for your next attack, which is ideally your burst skill then)
why go for a stack sigil though, isn't it risky to do so for dungeons, especially if you are NOT running with guildies...

I'm aware that you run with a very specific group setup, but what would be a more general approach here?
would you still go for it?


edit: okay just read that you posted your sigil combination, nevermind

wouldn't it be far more effective to use the sigil of leeching on axe-swap?

edit 2: nevermind again... 975hp I see.

Edited by KrayZ33, 14 November 2012 - 10:26 PM.


#8 Blazer

Blazer

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 148 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:40 PM

Nice build, will try it out.
One question tho:
What made you choose for the Mace OH instead of the Axe? Axe 5 gives a lot of adren to use for Evis. which provides a good amount of damage in this build.

#9 KrayZ33

KrayZ33

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 136 posts

Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

from what I could make out is that you have already more than enough adrenaline and you can't spent it fast enough

also axe 5 probably won't allow weapon swaps because it has such a long casttime

#10 dawdler

dawdler

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 740 posts
  • Server:Piken Square

Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:23 PM

Axe 5 is a pretty bad skill aside from being able to hit targets behind you - the auto-attack has way higher dps. Mace 5 on the other hand offer a very usefull cone stun. IMO its a matter of utility. But then again it doesnt matter all that much what you pick. My Warrior carry all of them with him, lol.

I tried the build for a while and although I am in shitty gear, its quite decent. Not quite sure on the banner trait and skill however. In WvW, fine, but in dungeons I'd want to use On my Mark instead. FgJ already offer group fury (no one bother to pick up the banner to cast fury anyway) and you dont need the swiftness. While the precision bonus is good, OmM will increase the potential group damage by an ASSLOAD. Unless of course the group already have tons of debuff stacking already. WIthout the regen trait banners have such low efficency compared to a quick shout.

Edited by dawdler, 14 November 2012 - 07:26 PM.


#11 Yarz_Widow

Yarz_Widow

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 30 posts
  • Guild Tag:[TWL]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:48 PM

I run a build of my own which would agree with your axe in main hand. However, I use a shield and stack/block for might stacks increase DPS. With omnombery pies and maint oils/Sharpening stones to supplement some damage and on average in a fight you will get anywhere from 12 to 25 stacks might stacks form traits. when all said and done in a dungeon your base crit chance is 52% + some sigil bonuses. With all the extra life steal and the regen signet you dont need to increase your hp pool as you can fully maintain it against most mobs. Your total attack sits at about 3.2k-3.3k and your armor varies from 3.5k to 3.8k But im still seeing as to where I can improve.

With full knights armor(Divinity), accessories and weps,

25/0/30/0/15

http://gw2skills.net...GZNrIGYcw4RxkAA

#12 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:13 AM

View PostBlazer, on 14 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Nice build, will try it out.
One question tho:
What made you choose for the Mace OH instead of the Axe? Axe 5 gives a lot of adren to use for Evis. which provides a good amount of damage in this build.
What Kray said pretty much.

Axe offhand provides no utility, you don't need the fury buff, axe 5 has less damage then auto attack and you already get max adrenaline every 10 seconds evisc is up without it.

Mace 4 gives 4 vuln stacks for your entire group, Mace 5 has a interrupt and can remove defiant stacks which is important when running in an organized group.

#13 Sieghildr

Sieghildr

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 100 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:09 PM

I went with this build for HoTW explorable and was very happy with it. One thing I wanted to ask though was Adrenal Reserves vs. Quick Burst.

Often after using Eviscerate, I'd be quickly sitting back at full Adrenaline again with a few seconds still remaining on my Burst charger. So my question is:

Might switching to Quick Burst on bosses be better? 20% more Eviscerates vs. starting off at the base Adrenaline vs. tier 1?

#14 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

View PostSieghildr, on 15 November 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

I went with this build for HoTW explorable and was very happy with it. One thing I wanted to ask though was Adrenal Reserves vs. Quick Burst.

Often after using Eviscerate, I'd be quickly sitting back at full Adrenaline again with a few seconds still remaining on my Burst charger. So my question is:

Might switching to Quick Burst on bosses be better? 20% more Eviscerates vs. starting off at the base Adrenaline vs. tier 1?

Yea that can be preference, the reasons I think Reserves vs 8 second cooldown is better is because:

1. Synergizes well with both Berserker's Power and Heightened Focus since you always have at least tier 1

2. Synergizes with Building Momentum which gives you the option to instantly switch to longbow and use a 2nd burst in the rare instance where you need two quick dodges at low endurance. I.E. Hit Evisc, see a powerful boss move, instantly dodge back, switch to longbow and cast it's adrenaline move, dodge again from a 2nd move.

3. The times where you build adrenaline extremely fast is when you are hitting multiple enemies, in those instances I don't use Evisc. because the single target damage and cast time isn't worth giving up the auto attack damage you are doing to 3 enemies instead of 1. In the instances I do use Evisc. it is when I am only fighting one mob. In those instances I usually get max adrenaline with around ~3 seconds left on Evisc. cooldown, this can be delayed during cycles where you need to recast signet or banner for your group. This 2-3 seconds is with Reserves, meaning you already have a full bar. If you didn't have reserves and were fighting a single boss mob, I'm not sure that 20% cooldown would really be worth it and would take away from alot of the synergy of 3 other traits.

Edited by Strife025, 15 November 2012 - 05:36 PM.


#15 Sieghildr

Sieghildr

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 100 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

#3 is a good point. I also remembered that part of the reason I was building such an overflow of Adrenaline - even on bosses - was that I had traited 10 into defense for Embrace the Pain and a little more survivability instead of the second tier of Tactics. (wasn't sure how well I could play the build without dying the first time running it so I opted for more defense and less damage)

Next run I'll go 20 into Tactics with Empowered and probably see less redundant Adrenaline. Thanks!

#16 dawdler

dawdler

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 740 posts
  • Server:Piken Square

Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:11 PM

After playing some more with the build in OP, I decided change some traits and go with 30 tactics and 20 discipline instead, while swapping to axe mastery. You dont get quite as high damage, but its pretty darn close... You get the option of shout or banner healing (just choose whatever cooldown traits that suits). Doesnt heal for much at so little healing power, but hey its better than nothing.

#17 Staunch

Staunch

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

View Postdawdler, on 15 November 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

After playing some more with the build in OP, I decided change some traits and go with 30 tactics and 20 discipline instead, while swapping to axe mastery. You dont get quite as high damage, but its pretty darn close... You get the option of shout or banner healing (just choose whatever cooldown traits that suits). Doesnt heal for much at so little healing power, but hey its better than nothing.

Also interested in your response. I was considering doing the same, and running Empowered, Lung Capacity, and Vigorous Shouts and replacing Banner of Discipline with On My Mark.

This would combine well with the Vulnerability stacking already possible, allow Fury from FGJ to be up 10.5 out of every 20 seconds, and from Signet of Rage 39 seconds out of every 48.

It would also make it possible to swap in a soldier rune set for those condition heavy areas.

Of course if your running a static group like yourself strife all this is unnecessary, but I think this will allow me do deal moderate damage, provide adequate support and not have to change spec when I shift between Dungeons and solo PvE, it might even work as a replacement for my current WvW spec.

#18 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

lol minor buff to my build tonight with increased damage of Longbow and Axe Triple Chop "becoming more reliable." Man I was afraid, so much QQ on ranger forums also.

As far as the whole banner regen/shout regen thing. My group played with that early but have 2 guardians already gives us plenty of survivability. I prefer more crit damage, evisc damage, synergy of leaving 1 adrenaline bar, and ability to basically have 4 dodges in very quick succession.

But I agree for PuGs it's definitely an option to decrease your damage a bit but increase self and group survivability. I personally don't like it for my circumstances, but I do see how it could be very useful for non-dedicated groups.

#19 Dank Rafft

Dank Rafft

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • Guild Tag:[KUH]
  • Server:Elona Reach

Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:54 AM

After several build and weapon preference changes I returned to axe/mace. I love the axe and therefore play a very similar build. Mostly I equip a warhorn in the second slot to still Chop, Double Chop and Tripple Chop after switching weapons. In that case I use Quick Breathing instead of Empowered to provide further support and Axe Mastery since the mace is out only 50% of the fighting (due to constant weapon swapping).

Great build, great guide. Thanks. :)

Little side note: In your video you stated that Empowered provides 2 - 2.5% increased damage. According to the official wiki it's only 1.5%.

#20 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:35 AM

View PostDank Rafft, on 16 November 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

After several build and weapon preference changes I returned to axe/mace. I love the axe and therefore play a very similar build. Mostly I equip a warhorn in the second slot to still Chop, Double Chop and Tripple Chop after switching weapons. In that case I use Quick Breathing instead of Empowered to provide further support and Axe Mastery since the mace is out only 50% of the fighting (due to constant weapon swapping).

Great build, great guide. Thanks. :)

Little side note: In your video you stated that Empowered provides 2 - 2.5% increased damage. According to the official wiki it's only 1.5%.

Yea I wasn't quite sure since I've been too lazy to test it. I've read various places with differen't numbers. It could very well be 1.5% now.

#21 ck64

ck64

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:13 PM

Just a small nitpick here, but the other GS skills are not useless.
Whirlwind Attack is good dps assuming you can land every hit (not difficult) and grants you evasion, a huge part of playing GS properly.

#22 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

Yes WW can be good if the enemy is pushed again a wall. But there are alot of times where that's not the case. As far as evasion, my axe/mace build gives you the option to dodge 4 times in a row, so I still consider GS weaker in that case.

But you are correct that WW can be not useless sometimes.

Also I realized that Superior Sigil of Leeching is not working. Not sure what the issue is and if it works on other weapons/classes or it is just overall broken, but I did a bunch of tests last night including respecing and using no trait points to see if it was an issue with fast hands, and I haven't gotten it to work at all.

So probably take another Sigil in the meantime...

Edited by Strife025, 16 November 2012 - 06:05 PM.


#23 Brand

Brand

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 490 posts
  • Guild Tag:[DBVG]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:05 PM

View Postdawdler, on 15 November 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

After playing some more with the build in OP, I decided change some traits and go with 30 tactics and 20 discipline instead, while swapping to axe mastery. You dont get quite as high damage, but its pretty darn close... You get the option of shout or banner healing (just choose whatever cooldown traits that suits). Doesnt heal for much at so little healing power, but hey its better than nothing.
Consider this. A Greatsword build in which you would achieve much more damage, much more support, and similar survivability. The trade off is less CC, and a tad less mobility (Although if you are good at using the GS you don't really need more mobility or CC)

Also it should be mentioned that banner healing is 54% less than shout healing at 0 Compassion, and then you have to deal with a clunky banner. So I recommend going Shout heals.

#24 Brand

Brand

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 490 posts
  • Guild Tag:[DBVG]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

View PostStrife025, on 13 November 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'll come out and say it, GS is bad for dungeons. It has overall slower auto attacks then axe for similar damage, 100 Blades roots you in place, the burst skill is pretty bad, and the other skills are useless for a dungeon and provide nothing for your party (okay WW can be good in the instance an enemy is pushed up against the wall or for a dodge... which still gives you less dodges then this build).

Axe/Mace provides 8% vulnerability which improves damage for your entire party, has a skill to both interrupt and remove defiant stacks which is huge, and you are extremely mobile because everything can be cast on the move. Faster auto attacks without being rooted using 100B is also very good for a crit heal build like this one.

I personally find very little upside to taking GS into dungeons, it is mainly a solo play weapon and has good mobility for running around and farming in CS.
The burst is bad, and we use this aspect to increase our damage, crit, and healing.
Not true, Rush can be used after a WW to do lots of damage in a matter of seconds (And also evade) it can also be used for running back if you die during a boss fight (Few things are faster than a SoR GS warrior using WW and rush). Bladetrail is a ranged cripple that can be used on enemies behind you (Great for kiting) and hits them (And anything else in its path) twice.
False, Axe/Mace provides 8 stacks of vulnerability 60% of the time, 4 stacks 30% of the time, and 12 stacks 10% of the time. This doesn't equate to a constant 8 stacks. GS on the other hand provides a constant 11 ish when traited, even more after a 100B.
You really just need to learn how to use 100B right, on a 6 second CD, the crits it produces are amazing.
Solo play? Hardly. Refer to my build please (And read it thoroughly)

#25 dawdler

dawdler

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 740 posts
  • Server:Piken Square

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:26 PM

View PostBrand, on 16 November 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Consider this. A Greatsword build in which you would achieve much more damage, much more support, and similar survivability. The trade off is less CC, and a tad less mobility (Although if you are good at using the GS you don't really need more mobility or CC)

Also it should be mentioned that banner healing is 54% less than shout healing at 0 Compassion, and then you have to deal with a clunky banner. So I recommend going Shout heals.
Why should I consider that in a thread about an axe/mace build? Even if I would consider another build, it wouldnt be a greatsword build. Never liked the greatsword, doubt I ever will no matter how much you advertise it.

#26 Brand

Brand

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 490 posts
  • Guild Tag:[DBVG]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

View Postdawdler, on 16 November 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Why should I consider that in a thread about an axe/mace build? Even if I would consider another build, it wouldnt be a greatsword build. Never liked the greatsword, doubt I ever will no matter how much you advertise it.
Well it is a thread about an axe/mace build, but there appears to be an awful lot of GS vs Axe/Mace discussion going on, even in the OP.

#27 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:48 AM

View PostBrand, on 16 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

The burst is bad, and we use this aspect to increase our damage, crit, and healing.
Not true, Rush can be used after a WW to do lots of damage in a matter of seconds (And also evade) it can also be used for running back if you die during a boss fight (Few things are faster than a SoR GS warrior using WW and rush). Bladetrail is a ranged cripple that can be used on enemies behind you (Great for kiting) and hits them (And anything else in its path) twice.
False, Axe/Mace provides 8 stacks of vulnerability 60% of the time, 4 stacks 30% of the time, and 12 stacks 10% of the time. This doesn't equate to a constant 8 stacks. GS on the other hand provides a constant 11 ish when traited, even more after a 100B.
You really just need to learn how to use 100B right, on a 6 second CD, the crits it produces are amazing.
Solo play? Hardly. Refer to my build please (And read it thoroughly)

Yep and it still has less damage and crit then my build.

Sorry I don't consider a skills value by how fast it can get you back to a boss after you die, if you die that much to make it useful you should recheck your build. I can't remember the last time I died at a boss.
I care about micro-mobility, meaning in combat, not running through the dungeon. If you've seen my vids, when you run through trash in dungeons you stick together. This build gives you constant dodges since every burst gives 50% endurance and it doesn't root you in place. There are many times where a 3.5s root for 20k damage or whatever your 100B does is terrible compared to fully mobile 1/4 - 1/2s 2.5k auto attacks and a 10k quick burst.

Also recheck your math on vuln, sounds like maybe you forgot the natural 20% increase from 20 in strength. I just ran it in excel over a 60 second fight, its 4 stacks 10% of the time, 8 stacks 53.3% of the time, and 12 stacks 36.7% of the time. Axe 2 = 4 stacks for 9.5 sec every 6 sec. Mace 4 = 4 stacks for 12s every 15s.

I've seen your build, wasted potential imho. Other classes support way better, few builds have the sustained dps potential a warrior brings to dungeons. Both myself and the other main warrior in my group run axe/mace and have tried GS. From first hand experience it doesn't have the dps potential and group benefit for a dedicated group. It's cute you think you build does more dmg wearing full knights and healing accessories though. This is a dps build for organized groups to fulfill the dps role, hence the title of my build, if you don't think a pseudo trinity exists for quick and efficient dungeon runs and you think all classes fulfill all roles equally, it's obvious you haven't run many dungeons outside of PuGs.

Again to be clear, this build obviously isn't for everyone. It is in response to people asking me what my warrior and other warriors in my group run from the dungeon videos I have up, since they put out tons of damage with good survivability. For what this build brings to a dedicated group compared to GS, GS is bad.

Feel free to make some runs and prove me wrong though that your build does better damage, starting to do more runs on my war, most are on my guardian right now:

AC:
Shared Section (4:13): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=zhdyaHbSarY
Path 1 (8:52): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=OfBR8d5IZuU
Path 3 (11:05): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=o_48A5Xhhrk

TA:
Shared Path (2:40): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dTOqCI1UksY
Up (10:51): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=W1tHVvxVPxY
F/F: pending
F/U (14:53): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=yFSlvYcONg4

SE:
Path 1 (14:21): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=g1Zw5vvFuDk
Path 2: no plans to do again atm
Path 3 (11:35): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=95vVeG1H7tw

HotW
Path 1 (11:30): http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ZbVrOVAZg_0

Edited by Strife025, 17 November 2012 - 07:12 AM.


#28 Brand

Brand

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 490 posts
  • Guild Tag:[DBVG]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:21 AM

I merely gave running back to a boss as an example, you can use it for other things as well, such as kiting and maneuvering.
It would appear I was not including the 20% from Strength.
If the Greatsword was bad then people wouldn't use it, plain and simple. People do use it however, and not because they are stupid or wrong, but because they enjoy a playstyle that is different than yours. Your play style is different than mine/ours and that's fine, but you can't just say that GS is bad when it clearly isn't.

#29 Strife025

Strife025

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Guild Tag:[DnT]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:53 PM

View PostBrand, on 17 November 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

I merely gave running back to a boss as an example, you can use it for other things as well, such as kiting and maneuvering.
It would appear I was not including the 20% from Strength.
If the Greatsword was bad then people wouldn't use it, plain and simple. People do use it however, and not because they are stupid or wrong, but because they enjoy a playstyle that is different than yours. Your play style is different than mine/ours and that's fine, but you can't just say that GS is bad when it clearly isn't.

Fair enough, of course it's my opinion and with both myself and the other main axe/mace warrior in my dungeon group using it first hand (I mean all it takes is 3s50c and me switching to my exotic GS) I do think it's bad for the type of style and dungeon group I run.

But yes, many weapons are based on playstyle although I don't think all weapons are equal in a given situation (i.e. dungeons vs wvw vs spvp), for what axe/mace brings to a dps build built for an organized group I still do think GS is bad. That's not to say it's bad for all builds or all groups (like PuGs) where healing and actually kiting would be beneficial. But for what I run in my videos, GS brings less then what axe/mace brings. We hardly kite, we hardly die, we have times where we need to remove defiant stacks quickly, I don't need to self stack 25 might stacks by myself, and my purpose is to provide and do as much dps as possible without constantly dieing. This is what my build is meant for, obviously not every group or player is going to get away with it, but my opinion is that GS brings nothing to the group over axe/mace in this situation.

But I have changed my wording slightly in my guide on my opinion on GS to make it less harsh.

Edited by Strife025, 17 November 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#30 Kinrr

Kinrr

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

Just wanted to say thanks for all this information - one of the best guides I've seen!





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: warrior, build, dps, axe, greatsword, dungeon

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users