427 replies to this topic

[Rahlek]

KrayZ33, on 14 February 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

last time I checked, the combat log doesn't even tell you pies healing procs.

and i'm telling you, the damage DOES show up - I just didn't know if it really does the damage which is featured ON SCREEN because it doesn't show up in the combat log (like many other things)

if Puandro is right, then its not just a mere scrolling combat text glitch, but actually happening.



~4% crit won't add 50%+ damage

as a warrior its actually pretty easy to test it, equip axe -> go autoattack -> (white numbers only)  2k 2k 300(uhuuu?) 2k 2k (300 uhuuu?) 2k

where is the 300 comming from?

I've never seen "extra damage" on my screen like you describe. Until you give more solid proof than "Works on my machine!" or "I kill stuff faster!" followed by arbitrary numbers, I'm sorry, but I can't take what you say as fact.

I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong, but I'm not admitting I'm wrong till I'm shown proof. I'd happily check it myself, but I'm at work for another 4.5hrs.

KrayZ33, on 14 February 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

last time I checked, the combat log doesn't even tell you pies healing procs.

and i'm telling you, the damage DOES show up - I just didn't know if it really does the damage which is featured ON SCREEN because it doesn't show up in the combat log (like many other things)

if Puandro is right, then its not just a mere scrolling combat text glitch, but actually happening.



~4% crit won't add 50%+ damage

as a warrior its actually pretty easy to test it, equip axe -> go autoattack -> (white numbers only)  2k 2k 300(uhuuu?) 2k 2k (300 uhuuu?) 2k

where is the 300 comming from?

the sigil is doing damage too btw  (fading number)

I see the heal. I see the (fading) sigil proc. I see the damage. I do not see anything else. Am I missing something?

And you say it's not showing up in the combat log and you can't be sure it's the numbers on the screen either... so again... proof?

Edited by Rahlek, 14 February 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[KrayZ33]

dude? srsly? there won't be any proof because the combat log is a piece of shit.

people don't even know about the additional white number popping up, or they tend to ignore it... I don't know

where is the proof that it DOESN'T deal any damage?

Edited by KrayZ33, 14 February 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[Rahlek]

Yes. Seriously. You've shown me more to prove my side of the argument than you have your own.

KrayZ33, on 14 February 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

and i'm telling you, the damage DOES show up - I just didn't know if it really does the damage which is featured ON SCREEN because it doesn't show up in the combat log (like many other things)

the sigil is doing damage too btw  (fading number)

You don't know if the damage is showing up anywhere but you JUST KNOW that it is doing extra damage?

What can be seen > What you think might possibly be happening but have no proof of.

You're claiming something is happening that there is no evidence of. The burden of proof here is on YOU, not me.

Edited by Rahlek, 14 February 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[KrayZ33]

you are not paying attention then

what makes you even think so? please stop ignoring everything everyone is telling you right now

Pie's healing doesn't show up in Combat log -> so it doesn't heal?
bleeding doesn't show up in combat log -> so it doesn't deal damage?


god I just went ingame while writing this to test it again and everytime I get healed by pies, weird white numbers pop up that shouldn't be there

even during HB white numbers outside ob HBs channel appear, so? (pic not related)

Edited by KrayZ33, 14 February 2013 - 08:56 PM.

[Puandro]

Rahlek, on 14 February 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

So it's just mystery damage that doesn't show up and that nothing in the game says you're doing? Sorry, but until there's verified proof that there is "Extra damage" then I can't say I believe this based ona "Test" in which you eat pies (which add to your crit rate, btw... You do realise that the pies also add precision?) and saying you "kill things faster". Of course you'll kill things faster. Your crit just went up from eating damage buff food.

Unless the combat log reads something like:

"Your Life Steal does XXX Damage to XYZ mob." followed directly by something like
"Your Life Steal heals you for XXX damage." is isn't doing any extra damage.

Its more likely just healing you when you do damage, not healing you for an extra amount of damage you are doing.

A) I went and tested it myself, you don't believe then don't IDGAF, ATM there is no way to prove it to other people it works unless they go and tested themselves because the damage doesn't show up from the pies and it doesn't show up on your combat log.
B.) Yes im aware Pies 70 Precision, but 70 Precision doesn't make you kill things from 90 seconds down to 30.
C) You assume the devs can code everything correctly, there is a ton of ability tooltips that show the wrong damage range on the abilities.

Edited by Puandro, 14 February 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[KrayZ33]

Quote

You don't know if the damage is showing up anywhere but you JUST KNOW that it is doing extra damage?

What can be seen > What you think might possibly be happening but have no proof of.

You're claiming something is happening that there is no evidence of. The burden of proof here is on YOU, not me.

the evidence is there, because it shows up on screen as I freaking said like 4(?) times already? where is your god now .... i demand proof that it doesn't deal damage because the numbers on screen say it does. so, what now?

Edited by KrayZ33, 14 February 2013 - 09:02 PM.

[Rahlek]

KrayZ33, on 14 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

you are not paying attention then

what makes you even think so? please stop ignoring everything everyone is telling you right now

Pie's healing doesn't show up in Combat log -> so it doesn't heal?
bleeding doesn't show up in combat log -> so it doesn't deal damage?


god I just went ingame while writing this to test it again and everytime I get healed by pies, weird white numbers pop up that shouldn't be there

even during HB white numbers outside ob HBs channel appear, so?

When the pies heal, I see it on my screen.

When bleeds do damage, I see them on my screen.

When sigils proc, I see them on my screen.

because these things are visible, they can be verified to be happening.

I'm not ignoring what you're saying. I am asking you to show me solid proof of it, and noone seems to be able to outside of BECAUSE I SAW IT and BECAUSE I SAID SO. Oh, and a useless screenshot with a sigil proc, a heal (which I see myself when I use the pies), and the damage done by the swing, which is for some reason supposed to prove the existence of this mystery damage that you're supposedly seeing. If it's not showing up in the combat log and you can't be sure if it's showing up on the screen, where is your proof??

I told you before, I'll admit when I'm wrong. You just haven't shown me I am, and because I'm just not taking you at your word and blindly agreeing with something (that, once again, ouside of your perception of something that might be something else, but you're really not sure) that somehow translates to me ignoring you. Believe me, I have read what you've posted. It's just until you show me proof, which you can't do, I am not taking what you say as fact.

Again, I'll happinly look into this when I get home, but I'm at work.

[KrayZ33]

Quote

When the pies heal, I see it on my screen.

When bleeds do damage, I see them on my screen.

When sigils proc, I see them on my screen.

because these things are visible, they can be verified to be happening.

holy s***, i'm marking it for you now....


didn't read the rest im sorry for that, pic incomming in a few secs
you are testing me

JUST TO MAKE SURE, ITS NOT BLEED/BURN OR WHATEVER (bleed damage would be around 50-60)

Edited by KrayZ33, 14 February 2013 - 09:11 PM.

[Puandro]

The best way to test this is get high crit % and use lvl 0 weapons, they do so little damage that you will notice the pies doing damage because the pies DPS is about double of what your weapon dps is.

[Rahlek]

KrayZ33, on 14 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

the evidence is there, because it shows up on screen? where is your god now .... i demand proof that it doesn't deal damage because the numbers say it does. so, what now?

You're making a claim that something is happening that there is no proof of besides "you said so". Show me the numbers that says it deals damage. That screenshot shows weapon hit, sigil proc, and heal. No mystery damage. Show me a screenshot with this unknown damage you're claming to see and proof of where it came from. Also, you're using an ascalonian weapon in that pic, not a lvl 0.

I really don't see how that's all that much to ask, given you're the one making the claim this is happening.

Given I am NOT seeing any "extra" damage procs when I'm eating the pies (too much damage spam? No idea.) it's more believable to me that it simply heals you on damage and does not deal "extra" damage as you claim it does.

Please don't misunderstand. I'd love for you to prove me wrong. Extra damage is never a bad thing.

Edited by Rahlek, 14 February 2013 - 09:12 PM.

[Rahlek]

Doublepost when I meant to edit.

Also, what sigils are you using?

Edited by Rahlek, 14 February 2013 - 09:15 PM.

[KrayZ33]

im using 5% crit chance with my GS

I hope that last screenshot made clear that the low damage number IS the "mystery number"

why *you* don't see it, I don't know, it usally fades away *alot* faster than normal numbers, but they are always there. they are hard to screen because of that.

I'm using a high lvl GS because there is no way I'd do ~240 damage with it in a higher level area.
its impossible doesn't matter what skill I use

bleed will tick for around 50-60
burning around 350 at least  (if someone thinks that's the last burning tick from Longbow)

Edited by KrayZ33, 14 February 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[Rahlek]

KrayZ33, on 14 February 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

im using 5% crit chance with my GS

I hope that last screenshot made clear that the low damage number IS the "mystery number"

why *you* don't see it, I don't know, it usally fades away *alot* faster than normal numbers, but they are always there. they are hard to screen because of that.

Part of the reason could be that I'm not using GS, I'm using Axe/XXX, so I'm swinging more/faster and the numbers are disappearing more quickly. I would think that I'd notice it especially while using whirling axe on a large group of mobs, given that I do clearly see the heal numbers pop up.

I'm going to try this when I get home using a GS.

[Strife025]

Puandro, on 14 February 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

This is exactly what i did 2 days ago. lvl 0 daggers on my ele spamming Dragon's Claw took me 85-90 secs to kill Purifiers in Orr, did 5 tests. I put on Omnom pies and i killed them in 25-30 secs.

Pies do damage, it just doesn't show up.

Gotcha, well that makes pies super good because they probably end up doing more dmg then actual dmg food :x

Hopefully they never get nerfed...

[Wethospu]

I can also verify that Pies do damage. I used low level Longbow to kill Moas, calculated how much health they about have (based on combat log), ate a pie and checked how damage (based on combat log) I now need to do. I checked this about 10 times and result was always  ~15% less damage (on combat log).

Edited by Wethospu, 14 February 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[Puandro]

Strife025, on 14 February 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Gotcha, well that makes pies super good because they probably end up doing more dmg then actual dmg food :x

Hopefully they never get nerfed...

Yup im prob going to stop using mixed pies on my easy dungeon runs now once i run out of them and stick with omnom/ghost for the little extra dps, it all adds up in the end.

[Ioflux]

I always wondered what the extra white number was on my screen. This greatly explains why.

Puandro, on 14 February 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Yup im prob going to stop using mixed pies on my easy dungeon runs now once i run out of them and stick with omnom/ghost for the little extra dps, it all adds up in the end.

I believe the amount of damage the pie does is the same across whichever pie you use the same way the amount it heals is all equal. I'll be glad to further test this when I get home from work. Unless you're doing it just for the extra procs.

Edited by Ioflux, 14 February 2013 - 10:42 PM.

[Puandro]

Ioflux, on 14 February 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

I always wondered what the extra white number was on my screen. This greatly explains why.



I believe the amount of damage the pie does is the same across whichever pie you use the same way the amount it heals is all equal. I'll be glad to further test this when I get home from work. Unless you're doing it just for the extra procs.

It is, i just want the higher proc rate = higher dps.

[KrayZ33]

Pies extra damage is btw the reason why I believe Axe's 5 to be somewhat decent damage wise (of course the healing is great)

especially on multiple targets.

If i'm not mistaken, 12 hits, each capable of doing 300 extra damage in addition to its normal damage. =  2400 extra danage average.

[The Trouble With Me]

I like it but I'm going to go with a 25 - 10 - 0 - 10 - 25 spread and get 'Stick and Move' over 'Adrenal Reserves'.

edit; Actually yeah you're right. /bow to OP's superior buildcrafting.

Edited by The Trouble With Me, 15 February 2013 - 10:31 PM.

[Strife025]

The Trouble With Me, on 15 February 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

I like it but I'm going to go with a 25 - 10 - 0 - 10 - 25 spread and get 'Stick and Move' over 'Adrenal Reserves'.

Stick and move only gives you 3% more damage when endurance is under 100%, meaning it's good if you actually need to dodge, but in cases where you don't need to dodge you actually lose out on more dps for the dodge time, so it's terrible by itself for 5 more points, if your going to put 25 in strength might as well go for the full 30 for axe and dual wield mastery.

[Skoigoth]

Hey Strife,

I was running TA (not a particular "warrior-friendly" dungeon imo) in PuGs the last couple days with your build (Axe/Mace; offhand Axe). I really had a blast so far, the build worked very well for me =) I barely had any problems, no matter how "bad" the team composition was.

But, I am also enjoying WvW a lot and I have troubles surviving long enough in big fights to be actually useful (which is of course not really suprising since the build is not designed for WvW). In addition to that, I prefer GS in WvW because of the great mobility it offers.

Do you have any advice on how to modify the build accordingly, so that it is more flexible regarding my choice of weapons, without losing to much damage? By "modify" I was mainly thinking of trait distribution, since I own a second set of weapons (GS/Rifle) with soldier stats, which should solve my survivability issues.


I had something like a 20/25/0/10/15 build in mind:
- Dungeon/PvE AM/ohA version (berserker´s weapons for maximal dmg output)
- WvW GS/Rifle version (soldier weapons for more survivability)

In my understanding, with this modifications, you would basicly trade...

15% crit dmg, 20% signet cooldown, 10 sec might on weapon swap and cheaper bursts for...
7% crit chance, 10% crit chance on bursts, 50% bleed duration and 10% dmg vs. bleeding foes.


What do you think? Bullcrap or still viable? I am not sure if this idea actually makes sense at all... but to me it sounds like a reasonable damage loss in favor of more flexibility with weapons.
(sorry if my English is a bit clumsy )

[Ernest1337]

Quote

How much toughness you need depends on the group and player.

How do you make the transition from Knights gear to Zerker? I find full zerker to be incredibly hard to play

[Strife025]

Skoigoth, on 16 February 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Hey Strife,

I was running TA (not a particular "warrior-friendly" dungeon imo) in PuGs the last couple days with your build (Axe/Mace; offhand Axe). I really had a blast so far, the build worked very well for me =) I barely had any problems, no matter how "bad" the team composition was.

But, I am also enjoying WvW a lot and I have troubles surviving long enough in big fights to be actually useful (which is of course not really suprising since the build is not designed for WvW). In addition to that, I prefer GS in WvW because of the great mobility it offers.

Do you have any advice on how to modify the build accordingly, so that it is more flexible regarding my choice of weapons, without losing to much damage? By "modify" I was mainly thinking of trait distribution, since I own a second set of weapons (GS/Rifle) with soldier stats, which should solve my survivability issues.


I had something like a 20/25/0/10/15 build in mind:
- Dungeon/PvE AM/ohA version (berserker´s weapons for maximal dmg output)
- WvW GS/Rifle version (soldier weapons for more survivability)

In my understanding, with this modifications, you would basicly trade...

15% crit dmg, 20% signet cooldown, 10 sec might on weapon swap and cheaper bursts for...
7% crit chance, 10% crit chance on bursts, 50% bleed duration and 10% dmg vs. bleeding foes.


What do you think? Bullcrap or still viable? I am not sure if this idea actually makes sense at all... but to me it sounds like a reasonable damage loss in favor of more flexibility with weapons.
(sorry if my English is a bit clumsy )

This isn't really for WvW, and I never WvW on my Warrior, I usually bring in my guardian, mesmer, or necro.

You'd probably have to change quite a bit for WvW, and of course you want one ranged weapon.

[gassyjoe]

Ignore this post

Edited by gassyjoe, 19 February 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[heatrr]

Strife025, on 16 February 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

You'd probably have to change quite a bit for WvW, and of course you want one ranged weapon.

If you are going to run with a zerg or do keep/tower defense or take keep/tower, etc., sure, but if one is doing solo roaming or roaming in a small group, I definitely disagree with the ranged weapon bit. I have long been watching two particular warrior players (Second to God is one of them) solo roam or run with a few others and simply walk dog on opponents and never once resort to a ranged weapon. Yeah, carry a ranged weapon in your stash if your a warrior because you never know when you will hook up with a zerg, etc.

Ernest1337, on 16 February 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

How do you make the transition from Knights gear to Zerker? I find full zerker to be incredibly hard to play

I run full zerkers on my mesmer, guardian, and warrior at times and it is not difficult at all.
Play WvW a lot and one will learn a few things that when playing PvE, etc., that you will respond as if you were still playing WvW and the results are awesome cause you can anticipate big bursts, dodge a lot, etc. Playing in zerkers is easy peesee.

[Corteaz]

Sorry, just wanted to clarify-- in terms of accessories, do you get ALL knights with ruby orbs, or just all berserkers, and then 2 knight rings with ruby orbs?


-Cort

[Strife025]

All berserker trinkets because most are ascended now which have good crit dmg ratios. If you use exotic and do need knights then you can just use what's appropriate based on the table for stats vs crit dmg ratios.

[Kirbo]

Just wanted to start of by saying thanks for the guide. I've been using it for a while now and really enjoying it.

I wanted to get your opinion on the new ascended amulets (laurel reward). I've made the transition from knights pieces to full berzerker so I am looking at the berzerker ascended amulets with an offensive infusion. Not sure if I should take the precision (+4) infusion over the power one (+4).

[Eleasar]

take the utility one and put in magic find/gold find or karma. If you sit at 2000 power - what would 4 stats mean? If you find 20% more magic items that means you have (roughly) to do 20% less dungeons ^^