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#1 gnuworldorder

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:27 AM

so last week in paids this ranger used some build on me that no matter how hard i tried as a necro i couldnt 1v1. i would have a full bleed stack on me in seconds and if i cleansed it it would be right back. after some trial and error i give you the double short bow build

http://intothemists....-J0-jwmAjwmA2Vp

the idea behind this build is keep swapping weapons for fury and use that fury to get crits which make more bleeds. im sure that people that actually play ranger can improve on this, but i tested it out in spvp and racked up 340 points the first game and 270+ the next 2. my pug cleaned up in frees with it. i dont have enough time to test it since im leaving for a trip tomorrow morning but i think this with a condi necro will mop the floor in team fights

#2 JROH

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:23 AM

First thing I notice is that running Sharpening Stone on this build serves no clear advantage to running flame trap, and because it specs for traps, it doesn't take full advantage of that by running only spike trap.

The next thing I'm going to ask might be honest, because in all my playtime as a ranger I honestly don't know, does running 2 of the same weapon actually mitigate the cooldowns? As in, do they each have their own separate cooldown? I would log in and test but I've been boycotting the game until a ranger balance is released.

My next point assumes that the aforementioned issue isn't an issue and the cooldowns are actually mitigated. Running dual sigils of superior earth is doing very little for the build. One of them is fair, but the other bow could easily be more useful with a sigil of geomancy, since it's a free three bleed stacks every weapon swap.

For competitive play, it is also viable to run either (or both) wilderness survival III or wilderness survival IX. They are 2 of rangers best traits and are essentially get out of CC free (IX isn't, but when you stealth, your opponent loses target, so unless they take a few lucky swings or are good with AoE, IX is a great benefit).

Those are my initial thoughts though. I hope it helps.

#3 Symbiont

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:47 AM

what? aren't cooldown shared on same skills...

oh, i see. what a gimmicky playstyle.

Edited by Symbiont, 14 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.


#4 gnuworldorder

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

View PostJROH, on 14 November 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

First thing I notice is that running Sharpening Stone on this build serves no clear advantage to running flame trap, and because it specs for traps, it doesn't take full advantage of that by running only spike trap.

The next thing I'm going to ask might be honest, because in all my playtime as a ranger I honestly don't know, does running 2 of the same weapon actually mitigate the cooldowns? As in, do they each have their own separate cooldown? I would log in and test but I've been boycotting the game until a ranger balance is released.

My next point assumes that the aforementioned issue isn't an issue and the cooldowns are actually mitigated. Running dual sigils of superior earth is doing very little for the build. One of them is fair, but the other bow could easily be more useful with a sigil of geomancy, since it's a free three bleed stacks every weapon swap.

For competitive play, it is also viable to run either (or both) wilderness survival III or wilderness survival IX. They are 2 of rangers best traits and are essentially get out of CC free (IX isn't, but when you stealth, your opponent loses target, so unless they take a few lucky swings or are good with AoE, IX is a great benefit).

Those are my initial thoughts though. I hope it helps.

View PostJROH, on 14 November 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

First thing I notice is that running Sharpening Stone on this build serves no clear advantage to running flame trap, and because it specs for traps, it doesn't take full advantage of that by running only spike trap.

The next thing I'm going to ask might be honest, because in all my playtime as a ranger I honestly don't know, does running 2 of the same weapon actually mitigate the cooldowns? As in, do they each have their own separate cooldown? I would log in and test but I've been boycotting the game until a ranger balance is released.

My next point assumes that the aforementioned issue isn't an issue and the cooldowns are actually mitigated. Running dual sigils of superior earth is doing very little for the build. One of them is fair, but the other bow could easily be more useful with a sigil of geomancy, since it's a free three bleed stacks every weapon swap.

For competitive play, it is also viable to run either (or both) wilderness survival III or wilderness survival IX. They are 2 of rangers best traits and are essentially get out of CC free (IX isn't, but when you stealth, your opponent loses target, so unless they take a few lucky swings or are good with AoE, IX is a great benefit).

Those are my initial thoughts though. I hope it helps.

well like i said im just going with what i thought the guys build was since he wouldnt give it to me. since i didnt get hit by a flame trap i assumed that he didnt use it. but now that you mention it the 12 second cooldown on flame trap sounds a lot better. the only thing is that requires you coming within range of a necros scepter.

no they dont have the same cooldown the point is that you swap and gain fury but still have the shortbow. with the axes range of 900 you are now in range of attack. the guy sat outside of the mine and behind it picking me apart and when i came out id hit his traps and hed take the ledge to hop behind me.

earths dont share a cooldown with anything else. they have an internal cooldown of 1-2seconds. without fury they will proc every 3 shots about with fury they proc about every 2.5ish. the only other thing i could think of to put in a bow would be the might on crit which also doesnt share a cooldown but then you are missing out on an additional bleed every 2.5-3 shots

i was talking to someone about this and he said that pets dont share your condition damage so running 3 instead of 5 could be possible but really if you are going to chill outside of their range whos going to stun you?

and yes it is gimicy as * but i dont think ive seen a ranger like this. im not sure if it was the build, the player or tarrain abuse but ive never played a ranger that did this before and never used anything besides a bow. but i would agree with you fire trap over the bleeds skill 3 over 5 and i would now say black widow over lynx. but now its pretty much run of the mill. i guess what the guy did was just smart play that we didnt figure out how to counter fast enough. kind of like when the caltrop theifs started showing up

#5 JROH

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:28 PM

View Postgnuworldorder, on 14 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

well like i said im just going with what i thought the guys build was since he wouldnt give it to me. since i didnt get hit by a flame trap i assumed that he didnt use it. but now that you mention it the 12 second cooldown on flame trap sounds a lot better. the only thing is that requires you coming within range of a necros scepter.

no they dont have the same cooldown the point is that you swap and gain fury but still have the shortbow. with the axes range of 900 you are now in range of attack. the guy sat outside of the mine and behind it picking me apart and when i came out id hit his traps and hed take the ledge to hop behind me.

earths dont share a cooldown with anything else. they have an internal cooldown of 1-2seconds. without fury they will proc every 3 shots about with fury they proc about every 2.5ish. the only other thing i could think of to put in a bow would be the might on crit which also doesnt share a cooldown but then you are missing out on an additional bleed every 2.5-3 shots

i was talking to someone about this and he said that pets dont share your condition damage so running 3 instead of 5 could be possible but really if you are going to chill outside of their range whos going to stun you?

and yes it is gimicy as * but i dont think ive seen a ranger like this. im not sure if it was the build, the player or tarrain abuse but ive never played a ranger that did this before and never used anything besides a bow. but i would agree with you fire trap over the bleeds skill 3 over 5 and i would now say black widow over lynx. but now its pretty much run of the mill. i guess what the guy did was just smart play that we didnt figure out how to counter fast enough. kind of like when the caltrop theifs started showing up

The point I was getting at with running an earth sigil and a geomancy sigil was that, given that with earth you are applying 1 bleed every 3 shots with turns out to be 3 bleeds every 9 seconds. Geomancy gives that 3 bleeds immediately on swap and then you can stack more on top of that.
I definitely understand your points on staying at range. But the fact is, staying at range isn't always possible, especially with the plethora of viable options melee classes have for gap closing. There isn't any reason not to build the build to counter or deal with a wider variety of builds. So many classes have CC options that, when landed on a ranger, set up opportunities to deal massive damage, that the more options you have to work with in those situations, the better off you'll be. Especially with such a low healthpool.

#6 Dahk

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:38 PM

View Postgnuworldorder, on 14 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

well like i said im just going with what i thought the guys build was since he wouldnt give it to me. since i didnt get hit by a flame trap i assumed that he didnt use it. but now that you mention it the 12 second cooldown on flame trap sounds a lot better. the only thing is that requires you coming within range of a necros scepter.

no they dont have the same cooldown the point is that you swap and gain fury but still have the shortbow. with the axes range of 900 you are now in range of attack. the guy sat outside of the mine and behind it picking me apart and when i came out id hit his traps and hed take the ledge to hop behind me.

earths dont share a cooldown with anything else. they have an internal cooldown of 1-2seconds. without fury they will proc every 3 shots about with fury they proc about every 2.5ish. the only other thing i could think of to put in a bow would be the might on crit which also doesnt share a cooldown but then you are missing out on an additional bleed every 2.5-3 shots

i was talking to someone about this and he said that pets dont share your condition damage so running 3 instead of 5 could be possible but really if you are going to chill outside of their range whos going to stun you?

and yes it is gimicy as * but i dont think ive seen a ranger like this. im not sure if it was the build, the player or tarrain abuse but ive never played a ranger that did this before and never used anything besides a bow. but i would agree with you fire trap over the bleeds skill 3 over 5 and i would now say black widow over lynx. but now its pretty much run of the mill. i guess what the guy did was just smart play that we didnt figure out how to counter fast enough. kind of like when the caltrop theifs started showing up
This may sound random, but do you use a Razer Naga mouse?

#7 Orual Fox

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:59 PM

I will be curious enough to try this, because if I could basically continue using one skill over and over by weapon swap, this could work for multiple ideas I had.  Again, I just breezed through this topic, so may have missed something.  But I'll try it when I get home.

#8 gnuworldorder

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:31 AM

View PostDahk, on 14 November 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

This may sound random, but do you use a Razer Naga mouse?

yes but i only have my weapon swap bound to the wheel and elite to the back key. everything else is keyboard

#9 Dahk

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:26 AM

View Postgnuworldorder, on 15 November 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

yes but i only have my weapon swap bound to the wheel and elite to the back key. everything else is keyboard
I was actually asking because I saw that you double quoted the person that you quoted, which happens to me with my Naga since it periodically does a super fast double click instead of a single click, lol.

#10 gnuworldorder

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:34 AM

View PostDahk, on 15 November 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

I was actually asking because I saw that you double quoted the person that you quoted, which happens to me with my Naga since it periodically does a super fast double click instead of a single click, lol.

im on my laptop on hotel internet i probably clicked 6 times before and it did nothing

#11 Bloodmyths2012

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:40 AM

View PostDahk, on 15 November 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

I was actually asking because I saw that you double quoted the person that you quoted, which happens to me with my Naga since it periodically does a super fast double click instead of a single click, lol.

Off topic but- Youtube: Fix naga double click, i did it (used cooking oil instead, really little bit using a cotton bud) fixes the double click, which will get worse for you over time :)

#12 Dahk

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:59 AM

View PostBloodmyths2012, on 15 November 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Off topic but- Youtube: Fix naga double click, i did it (used cooking oil instead, really little bit using a cotton bud) fixes the double click, which will get worse for you over time :)
Hehe, yea, I did that a while back and it was a good temporary fix, but I'll probably have to do it again before long since the issue is coming back.

#13 shiko

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

If you are a condition mancer, you have about the same chance to kill him, make sure to blast the roots(using a staff with your #1 or #4 if the pet is within ranger).

If you are running a dagger offhand or plague signet, after a decent amount of bleed stacks, you could transfer those right back to him(even better if you drag him away from his healing spring). If you are more of a bunker necro, or in general, did you take well of power?

For when he pops quicken zypher, just fear him since(or at least vs the spec you made since you aren't sure) he doesn't have any stun breakers followed by rolling once, this is because  that is his only form of burst on  top of massive bleed stacking.

#14 gnuworldorder

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:43 AM

View Postshiko, on 15 November 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

If you are a condition mancer, you have about the same chance to kill him, make sure to blast the roots(using a staff with your #1 or #4 if the pet is within ranger).

If you are running a dagger offhand or plague signet, after a decent amount of bleed stacks, you could transfer those right back to him(even better if you drag him away from his healing spring). If you are more of a bunker necro, or in general, did you take well of power?

For when he pops quicken zypher, just fear him since(or at least vs the spec you made since you aren't sure) he doesn't have any stun breakers followed by rolling once, this is because  that is his only form of burst on  top of massive bleed stacking.

sorry im not retarded. and you are wrong. his short bow out ranges every attack but the staffs that includes plague signet, which is broken. so not only can you never transfer conditions back to him you can only hit him with auto attack and marks. which dont transfer conditions because you arent inside them too.

but lets say that dagger 4 had ranger 1200 which it doesnt they can see it from a mile away and dodge it. and its not like the roots die fast taking 200 damage a hit from staff. also vs qz just double dodge

#15 shiko

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:25 AM

View Postgnuworldorder, on 16 November 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

sorry im not retarded. and you are wrong. his short bow out ranges every attack but the staffs that includes plague signet, which is broken. so not only can you never transfer conditions back to him you can only hit him with auto attack and marks. which dont transfer conditions because you arent inside them too.

but lets say that dagger 4 had ranger 1200 which it doesnt they can see it from a mile away and dodge it. and its not like the roots die fast taking 200 damage a hit from staff. also vs qz just double dodge

You could easily get in range, with the staff's #3 ability, which provides a slow, and the mark range is 1200 before the aoe, and it's even larger with the trait to activate. If the ranger is sitting at 1500 range, you could litterally take 1 step back and you he would miss everything due to projectile speed etc. The traps and elite skill are only 600 range(trap will have a larger trigger radius, which is still shorter than the range of deathly swarm(900) and plague signet(1200, same range as staff).

If you cannot get within 1200 range of him, you must be doing something wrong, because you have a gap closer on death shroud, and cripples,fear, and chill. Where the only reliable condition removal the ranger has is their well which they won't stand in if they are trying to kite. Also if he is strafing, he only moves at 3/4th of the speed as you running forward, which if you are running in a straight line towards him, he wouldn't be distancing himself, while the back peddle is 2/3s of running forward speed. Then if he isn't doing either of these, he isn't attacking you.

As for breaking the roots, as I have stated if the pet is within range, just use your #4 for an instant kill, while your number 1 will break it within 2 hits. Other options are lifeblast in DS form.

#16 Zazie The WIld

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:15 AM

So saw this the other day and tested it out with some variation http://intothemists....-J0-tZIDtZID5Bx in the few 1v1 fights i have had, i came out on top,

1st Engi he ran but didn't get far; War caught by surprised took him down took about a min or so, and a theif he must not have been very good since i snared him, then crippled and dazed the poor asura, died before he could go off on me. But i find it rather interesting and efficient  if you can catch them by surprise. But it doesn't help when a war has vengeance....

Open up with Sharpen stone and QZ, that's a good 5+ stacks and some recent burst on them already.Next up swap weapon and pet for another 2s quickness of (for me with furry) 71% crit chance.

Proper skill rotation of SB skills and heal/elite, and they go down rather well, but depends on how well your opponent is. And with Quick Shot and Lightning Reflexes, i can keep a good distance away. Though i personally prefer the Devourers for their toughness and range, i think that since they are ranged they can initiate into the fight quicker.

As well flanking is useful, large increase in damage with short bows.




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