299 replies to this topic

[Neo Nugget]

Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside posted a fairly long post on the official forums giving us more information on Ascended items in response to the outcry. In particular, he has stated that Ascended items will be available through other means than running the dungeon, such as World Vs World and PvE. He emphasizes that they do not want players to have to chase after a new set of gear in order to stay relevant, but want to offer an in-between for the Exotic and Legendary rarity levels to fill the large gap that currently exists.

Quote

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

So what do you all think about this clarification? Does it quell your fears, or are you still worried? Let us know!

Big thanks to Kymeric for bringing this post to our attention!

[Khlaw]

Conclusions have already been jumped to; the opportunity for truth to be relevant has passed.

[Roland Der Meister]

Well better late then never

[Chava Blue]

I feel a lot better about this after reading that explanation. It's easier to understand what they're going for now.

That said, I think ANet really needs to work on giving us the information we need in the first place to avoid these last minute scrambles to explain.

[Trei]

Ah... so is [i]that[/i] what the offensive infusions are for?
In WvW for players to [i]deal[/i] agony damage?  



I hope I am interpreting it wrongly.

Edited by Trei, 14 November 2012 - 03:07 AM.

[Beta Sprite]

[quote name='Trei' timestamp='1352862107' post='2078201']
Ah... so is [i]that[/i] what the offensive infusions are for?
In WvW for players to [i]deal[/i] agony damage?  



Please tell me it isn't so...
[/quote]

Ok, I completely missed whatever it is that you are seeing.  What are you talking about?

[Zedabi]

So...
[list]
[*]No gear treadmill will be introduced in the sense that every update will contain stronger gear
[*]WvW players can play WvW to get Ascended items and Infusions
[*]Fractals of the Mists won't be the only place to get Ascended gear
[*]SPvP won't be affected by Ascended gear
[*]They'll be working on other progression systems as well ([i]fingers crossed for Skill Hunting[/i])
[/list]
Did I miss or misinterpret anything?

If not, that doesn't sound too bad.

[Trei]

[quote name='Beta Sprite' timestamp='1352862239' post='2078203']
Ok, I completely missed whatever it is that you are seeing.  What are you talking about?
[/quote]
"... [color=#000000][font=CronosPro, 'Courier New', Georgia, serif][size=1]Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content...."[/size][/font][/color]

Now, does it make sense to give rewards irrelevant to the game mode you offer them in?
Would it make sense to give PvP items as reward in a dungeon?
Would it make sense to give PvE items as reward in WvW?

I am probably jumping the gun here and maaaaybe these new infusion stuff are really only for the PvE side of WvW, I really hope that to be the case.
Just rambling thoughts here.

[Roland Der Meister]

[quote name='Trei' timestamp='1352862825' post='2078213']
"... [color=#000000][font=CronosPro, 'Courier New', Georgia, serif][size=1]Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content...."[/size][/font][/color]

Now, does it make sense to give rewards irrelevant to the game mode you offer them in?
Would it make sense to give PvP items as reward in a dungeon?
Would it make sense to give PvE items as reward in WvW?

I am probably jumping the gun here and maaaaybe these new infusion stuff are really only for the PvE side of WvW, I really hope that to be the case.
Just rambling thoughts here.
[/quote]
Did yuu note read the part that says ther gonna make multiple ways to get ascended armor even in WvW

Edited by Roland Der Meister, 14 November 2012 - 03:17 AM.

[el hefe]

im sorry,  but just because he starts off his post with,  im here to address concerns.  does not make it any less of a power creep thatn it already is.

[quote name='Roland Der Meister' timestamp='1352863038' post='2078214']
Did yuu note read the part that says ther gonna make multiple ways to get ascended armor even in WvW
[/quote]

that doesnt make it less of a gear treadmill.  that just means theres multiple ways to get it.

[Andemius]

The damage is already done. Perhaps Anet should have released this information at the outset.

[Trei]

[quote name='Roland Der Meister' timestamp='1352863038' post='2078214']
Did yuu note read the part that says ther gonna make multiple ways to get ascended armor even in WvW
[/quote]
What did you read in my post that prompted you to ask this strange question?

I am precisely interested in [i]why WvW is included[/i].
Is it because the new infusions have a function in the player vs player aspect of WvW? Or just the PvE side?
What consequence could having infusion-needed PvE content in WvW be?

Or are they really simply just allowing players to only acquire ascended items in WvW, without creating any practical use for infusions in the game mode?
Depending on how easy it would be in WvW to acquire, would it lead to players being given reasons to feel compelled to run WvW even when they don't want to?

Edited by Trei, 14 November 2012 - 03:26 AM.

[pswendel]

[quote name='Chava Blue' timestamp='1352861849' post='2078196']
I feel a lot better about this after reading that explanation. It's easier to understand what they're going for now.

That said, I think ANet really needs to work on giving us the information we need in the first place to avoid these last minute scrambles to explain.
[/quote]

Perhaps. Or perhaps the fans need to relax. We pay no money and still demand based on entitlements. This community is messed up.

[xarallei]

[quote name='el hefe' timestamp='1352863143' post='2078217']
im sorry,  but just because he starts off his post with,  im here to address concerns.  does not make it any less of a power creep thatn it already is.



that doesnt make it less of a gear treadmill.  that just means theres multiple ways to get it.
[/quote]

This. Treadmill is still a treadmill. Is it a little less bad than we initially thought? Yeah, but it's still bad.

Edited by xarallei, 14 November 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[Zedabi]

[quote name='Trei' timestamp='1352863503' post='2078229']
What did you read in my post that prompted you to ask this strange question?

I am precisely interested in [i]why WvW is included[/i].
Is it because the new infusions have a function in the player vs player aspect of WvW? Or just the PvE side?
What consequence could having infusion-needed PvE content in WvW be?

Or are they really simply just allowing players to only acquire ascended items in WvW, without creating any practical use for infusions in the game mode?
Depending on how easy it would be in WvW to acquire, would it lead to players being given reasons to feel compelled to run WvW even when they don't want to?
[/quote]

Could be that it allows WvWers to gear up in the event they want to do Fractals of the Mists, without grinding Fractals of the Mists for the Agony protection?

Just speculating.

[Roland Der Meister]

[quote name='el hefe' timestamp='1352863143' post='2078217']
im sorry,  but just because he starts off his post with,  im here to address concerns.  does not make it any less of a power creep thatn it already is.



that doesnt make it less of a gear treadmill.  that just means theres multiple ways to get it.
[/quote]

Who cares if it is a gear treadmill as long as there not forcing you to do a single event or dungeon to get the gear and that you can get it at your own pace how ever you want no matter what you decide. And TBH this game has always ben a grind for something weather its gold karma mats legendarys world completion its cleverly disguised grind.

At least ther adding something to the game it was getting boring and fast and yet people still whine even when ther new content being added also how is it power creep its not breaking any thing in sPvP and WvW is not meant to be balanced.

Edited by Roland Der Meister, 14 November 2012 - 03:33 AM.

[el hefe]

[quote name='Roland Der Meister' timestamp='1352863761' post='2078236']
Who cares if it is a gear treadmill as long as there not forcing you to do a single event or dungeon to get the gear and that you can get it at your own pace how ever you want no matter what you decide. And TBH this game has always ben a grind for something weather its gold karma mats legendarys world completion its cleverly disguised grind

At least ther adding something to the game it was getting boring and fast and yet people still whine even when ther new content being added and how is it power creep its not breaking any thing in sPvP and WvW is not meant to be balanced.
[/quote]

becuase for 5 years we were promised this game would be different.  and less than 3 months from launch they've switched stances.

[Runkleford]

[quote name='Roland Der Meister' timestamp='1352863761' post='2078236']
Who cares if it is a gear treadmill as long as there not forcing you to do a single event or dungeon to get the gear and that you can get it at your own pace how ever you want no matter what you decide. And TBH this game has always ben a grind for something weather its gold karma mats legendarys world completion its cleverly disguised grind.

At least ther adding something to the game it was getting boring and fast and yet people still whine even when ther new content being added also how is it power creep its not breaking any thing in sPvP and WvW is not meant to be balanced.
[/quote]

So you admit that it is a gear treadmill? Okay good. Now can't you understand that a good chunk of players bought this game because one of the major selling points of the game was that there would be no gear treadmill? You really can't see why people don't like this?

[Roland Der Meister]

[quote name='el hefe' timestamp='1352863964' post='2078242']
becuase for 5 years we were promised this game would be different.  and less than 3 months from launch they've switched stances.
[/quote] I would rather them change things now then later on when ther games at a critical failing point it took them only 3 mounths to figure out a part of there philosophy was endangering there games success rather then helping it succeed. Do i like seeing them add gear treadmill no but atm its needed until a better solution is thought up

Edited by Roland Der Meister, 14 November 2012 - 03:43 AM.

[xarallei]

[quote name='Runkleford' timestamp='1352864228' post='2078250']
So you admit that it is a gear treadmill? Okay good. Now can't you understand that a good chunk of players bought this game because one of the major selling points of the game was that there would be no gear treadmill? You really can't see why people don't like this?
[/quote]

Especially since they said over and over again there would be no gear treadmill. They are going back on their word. If that's ok to you, then great. It's not ok to me. It makes them unreliable (to put it nicely cause I could say  worse).

[el hefe]

[quote name='Roland Der Meister' timestamp='1352864288' post='2078252']
I would rather them change things now then later on when ther games at a critical failing point it took them only 3 mounts to figure out a part of there philosophy was endangering there games success rather then helping it succeed. Do i like seeing them add gear treadmill no but atm its needed until a better solution is thought up
[/quote]

they went back on everything they told us.  they already had the solution.  they just didnt stick with it.  the players and Anet were going to show the mmo industry that power creep wasnt needed.  but now that's all tainted.  it's just another mmo now.

[Tellia]

they already said they wouldnt introduce vertical progression, and they just did it. they went back on their word. so what if they say now that they wont release new tiers of gear every so often? theyve already let us know that not only they think its ok to do that, but that they are ALSO willing to go back on their word. everything they say can be taken with a grain of salt, from this point on.

[Lol Lol Lol Guy]

Someone PLEASE explain to me the GIANT outcry over this? Y'all complain nonstop about not feeling like you are making any progress, and they ADD something for you to do FOR FREE in a FREE UPDATE and all you can do is whine and cry about it. Get over yourselves. This is their game. There is just no making some of you happy. Quit now, and save us all from having to hear you whine.

[Roland Der Meister]

el hefe, on 14 November 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

they went back on everything they told us.  they already had the solution.  they just didnt stick with it.  the players and Anet were going to show the mmo industry that power creep wasnt needed.  but now that's all tainted.  it's just another mmo now.

GW2 has always ben just another MMO it had its nice ideas and Philosophies but i think Anet realized that some of ther ideas sounded good but just dont go well when put out on the launch table.

I have seen this Bi polar community say some of the most contradicting things about this game alot of people say its in a death spiral some say its PvE is lacking then ther the fanboys who defend it. This was long before we got this news apparently they lied in the manifesto long before this gear treadmill according to some People.

[Trei]

There's this giant outcry because Anet (or NCsoft) has seemingly been pushing players' buttons ever since beta, to see just how far they can go on certain things.

This might be the last poke on the dolyak's rear for a great many players who stuck around til now through faith alone.

What's said cannot be unsaid.
The very notion that they even actually half-considered or entertained the mere thought for things like this would have been unforgivable to not just a few players, let alone announcing their implementation.

Edited by Trei, 14 November 2012 - 04:10 AM.

[el hefe]

Trei, on 14 November 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

There's this giant outcry because Anet (or NCsoft) has seemingly been pushing players' buttons ever since beta, to see just how far they can go on certain things.

This might be the last poke on the dolyak's rear for a great many players who stuck around til now through faith alone.

well seeing as it's buy to play .  ncsoft prob doesnt care.

[Tellia]

Lol Lol Lol Guy, on 14 November 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

Someone PLEASE explain to me the GIANT outcry over this? Y'all complain nonstop about not feeling like you are making any progress, and they ADD something for you to do FOR FREE in a FREE UPDATE and all you can do is whine and cry about it. Get over yourselves. This is their game. There is just no making some of you happy. Quit now, and save us all from having to hear you whine.

at the moment yours is the whiniest post in this thread. just saying...

[Valkaire]

This is a gear treadmill. Let's face it. But, it's not a forced gear treadmill. Only the people who are going to grind the dungeon hardcore to get to the highest difficulty will absolutely need ascended items. I'm sure the casuals who just run through it every once in awhile will earn them as well. Is this gear going to be needed to access new content? As far as we know, atm no.

All you can do is just sit back and see how this pans out. If you don't like it then you don't have to, stop playing but there are quite a few people who either don't care, don't mind or don't see how it will affect them.

Edited by Valkaire, 14 November 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[AureliusRex]

So there is no disputing that power creep has been added to the game.  The size and scope is still in question, but we are assured that in the short term it will be limited.  Feeling more than a little misled thus far, I have justifiable mistrust of assurances.  Kind of like that credit card rate that will never go up until they unilaterally change the terms of the agreement.

at the very least this sets a dangerous precidence.  When you make one exception, it becomes much easier to make a second, and a third.  That's the slippery slope and the reason its called that is because it often happens in spite of the intentions of the designer.

I personally am very skeptical that ascended will be the end of gear progression, simply because players will come to expect it and its an easy (read lazy) way to design game content.  Adding it as a solution now simply adds it to the toolkit, along with the temptation to use it as a quickfix to bigger problems with the game.

I won't quit over this.  Its still a fun game and its bought and paid for.  It will be a nagging question in the back of my mind though...and will probably have some effect on how much "investment" I plan to put into this game in the long-term.

[Ravenseye]

Wait, having armor rated from common to legendary is somehow not a treadmill? I already knew treadmills were in the game before it even came out, there are treadmills all in it, but as long as I do not need it or forced to do it then it's ok with me and no, to me it does not look like it's absolutely necessary but i'll wait for final judgments until it actually goes live.