299 replies to this topic

[Reisa]

So are they going to pull this crap whenever they release an expansion as well?

[Ivan The Legend]

While stats that are better than exotics can sound alarming at first. Lets take a step back and analyze.

For one, you will not lose your fancy exotic skin for a weapon with marginally better stats. That is what transmute stones are for. Second, last i recall infusion was easy to obtain in gw1 and had no bearing on the game after you got it, think of infusion slots like traits, you need certain ones to fight a boss more easily however if you do not it doesnt necessarily mean you have no chance at fighting him.

I honestly dont see what the big deal is. This is how everyone reacted when they said you would have to kill creatures to unlock your next skill. I recall everyone up in arms about it but now it is a non-issue because it was well implemented. Please have hope and stop being so pessimistic, Anet has had controversial design changes and has implemented them well so far.

[DarkWalker]

Manzana, on 14 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

People have yet to complain that they dislike Legendaries because they are better;

With good reason, I would think, since Legendaries are not better .
If Ascended gear had the same stats as Exotics (and Legendaries, for what matters), and were just an intermediary in how much effort to obtain they took - and also if they didn't make Exotics obsolete by being absolutely required for combating Agony -, there would be no issue.

[Manzana]

Ivan The Legend, on 14 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

While stats that are better than exotics can sound alarming at first. Lets take a step back and analyze.

For one, you will not lose your fancy exotic skin for a weapon with marginally better stats. That is what transmute stones are for. Second, last i recall infusion was easy to obtain in gw1 and had no bearing on the game after you got it, think of infusion slots like traits, you need certain ones to fight a boss more easily however if you do not it doesnt necessarily mean you have no chance at fighting him.

I honestly dont see what the big deal is. This is how everyone reacted when they said you would have to kill creatures to unlock your next skill. I recall everyone up in arms about it but now it is a non-issue because it was well implemented. Please have hope and stop being so pessimistic, Anet has had controversial design changes and has implemented them well so far.

Look at people's join dates.  Most of the most adamant joined after the whole potions, no energy, weapon-bound skills fiascoes   They'll learn that Anet tends to not screw up their game.

[FoxBat]

Manzana, on 14 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

To your second point, yes, they are closing the gap.  People have yet to complain that they dislike Legendaries because they are better;

Probably because, stat-wise, legendaries aren't better.

Quote

This new "tier" gives you something to do while reaching that final goal.

The million dollar question is why that tier needs *stats.*

[DarkWalker]

Ivan The Legend, on 14 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

While stats that are better than exotics can sound alarming at first. Lets take a step back and analyze.

For one, you will not lose your fancy exotic skin for a weapon with marginally better stats. That is what transmute stones are for.

True, but not relevant.

Ivan The Legend, on 14 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Second, last i recall infusion was easy to obtain in gw1 and had no bearing on the game after you got it,

If Ascended gear is meant as an intermediary step between Exotic and Legendary, wouldn't you expect it to be harder to obtain than Exotic gear, even before obtaining the infusions themselves? After all, if Ascended gear, besides having better stats, was also easier to get than Exotic, it would make Exotic gear completely worthless.

Also, the fact Ascended gear will have the best stats in the game (from the blog post: "This new rarity type falls between Exotic and Legendary on the spectrum of rarity and has slightly higher stats than Exotics") makes that gear relevant to everything in the whole game except for sPvP.

Ivan The Legend, on 14 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

think of infusion slots like traits, you need certain ones to fight a boss more easily however if you do not it doesnt necessarily mean you have no chance at fighting him.

From the blog: "Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must."
Seems to me like the whole intent is to prevent players from progressing until they have enough Ascended gear. Which cuts too close to the classical definition of a gear threadmill for be.

Ivan The Legend, on 14 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

I honestly dont see what the big deal is. This is how everyone reacted when they said you would have to kill creatures to unlock your next skill. I recall everyone up in arms about it but now it is a non-issue because it was well implemented. Please have hope and stop being so pessimistic, Anet has had controversial design changes and has implemented them well so far.

The big deal is that ANet promised a game without required grind, a game without a gear threadmill, a game where what would matter in whether players were able to tackle content was skill and not gear, a game where the Legendaries - supposed to be the best gear in the whole game - would have the same stats as the Exotic gear available at launch.

In doing this, or - as said in that blog post - implementing a whole "item progression initiative", ANet is at best irresponsibly short sighted, at worst flat out liars; take your pick.

[chuckles79]

Hold on, he said something between Exotic and Legendary, but legendaries don't offer better stats.

That's whole outcry over ascended gear.

Unless they are, of course, buffing Legendaries to match ascended stats.

The other panty-twister here is they say you can find it in WvW.  Are they going to be random drops?  Of course eventually, but if you want them ASAP, better be ready to dungeon crawl.

[Asudementio]

chuckles79, on 14 November 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Hold on, he said something between Exotic and Legendary, but legendaries don't offer better stats.

That's whole outcry over ascended gear.

Unless they are, of course, buffing Legendaries to match ascended stats.

The other panty-twister here is they say you can find it in WvW.  Are they going to be random drops?  Of course eventually, but if you want them ASAP, better be ready to dungeon crawl.

It is more likely they will be found in the jumping puzzle chests and for badges

[Myugen]

They said "gap between legendaries and exotics"...werent they pretty even on stats...Why didn't they just add a new set that looked INCREDIBLE but was even with exotics, make it pink, not necessarily better stats.

It's like them saying "Woah, relax, we're not doing what you say....we're doing...this...which is exactly the same, but I'm telling you to relax and explain what you already know."

[Asudementio]

Myugen, on 14 November 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

They said "gap between legendaries and exotics"...werent they pretty even on stats...Why didn't they just add a new set that looked INCREDIBLE but was even with exotics, make it pink, not necessarily better stats.

It's like them saying "Woah, relax, we're not doing what you say....we're doing...this...which is exactly the same, but I'm telling you to relax and explain what you already know."

They weren't talking about a gap in stats they were talking about a gap in how long it takes to acquire. Exotics take very little time to get and legendaries take a long time to get. The ascended gear is meant to take longer than exotics to get but not as long as it takes to get a legendary.

[Xiondar]

As happy as I am to hear that this will be the final tier, you need to address these valid concerns MUCH sooner than you have. People have already thrown babies off cliffs and all kinds of angry reactions have been presented.

I can deal with this, but next time... you tell us right off the bat before letting it grow to 120+ pages of kitten talk. You need to be CLEAR in what you say, because even if people overreacted... that's your fault in the end for the huge delay in your response.

On a side note, they now know how strongly the majority of us feel against gear treadmills, so this will help us in the future.

[Lordkrall]

chuckles79, on 14 November 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Hold on, he said something between Exotic and Legendary, but legendaries don't offer better stats.

That's whole outcry over ascended gear.

Unless they are, of course, buffing Legendaries to match ascended stats.

The other panty-twister here is they say you can find it in WvW.  Are they going to be random drops?  Of course eventually, but if you want them ASAP, better be ready to dungeon crawl.

Which is exactly what they will do when Ascended weapons come.

[Myugen]

Asudementio, on 14 November 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

They weren't talking about a gap in stats they were talking about a gap in how long it takes to acquire. Exotics take very little time to get and legendaries take a long time to get. The ascended gear is meant to take longer than exotics to get but not as long as it takes to get a legendary.

Which is why it should be looks...since legendaries weren't any better in stats than exotics. Which is all this whining and moaning. :S

[scaur]

this is warhammer al over again

[Arshay Duskbrow]

There's no reason to believe him, or any Arenanet developer ever again. They're already already going back on the design principles they espoused for over five years.

[Dove]

Two problems:

1. As many have mentioned, there's currently no stat difference between Exotic/Legendary. The few people who have Legendaries will be just fine because they'll still have max weapons after they get buffed. The vast majority of people who are on Exotics will experience this as a gear treadmill.

2. Unless I'm totally missing something, they're introducing Ascended class *armor* pieces (even if only trinkets/back at this stage, you can tell they're intending to include full Ascended armors in the future from Linsey's post), and since there is no Legendary armor, therefore no "gap" they keep talking about, armor is a wholly different discussion, and EVERYONE in current max gear will experience this as a treadmill.

I'm very disappointed in this.

[Alex Dimitri]

Oh to be honest, that skin only story just flew out of the window !

And funny thing is if they just went out loud and said, hey people we got our math wrong we need to add gear treadmill in order to have end game content (not so steep) i think 90% of the people would be OK with it. This way it looks like we are all crazy, and they don`t know why because nothing is changed !

Well things change, first of all like many have pointed out Exotic gear will soon become useless, and there will be gap NOW between exotic weapons and Legendary ones (they will introduce it) , not just beautiful skin !

When armors arrive, prepare to get them fast. Since i already see LFP Full Ascended gear needed !

And then few more content updates along the way, Hi guys we are introducing exciting new Heroic dungeon with completely new version of Agony just for you.You will need new infusions......but wait that`s not all.....the more you progress......and further you go.....better rewards await you.....yes you got it....brand new Heroic armor....the one you need to fill the blank between your Ascended armor and new updated shinny Legendary (now with better stats) !

and the story goes on..............

don`t get me wrong i`m not gonna quit game, i love it and i plan to play it for years to come, it`s just not what they have been talking so much about when they were in advertisment mode !!!

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

Welcome to World of Guild Craft

[Arngrim Einheri]

A_Gen, on 14 November 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Not quite true as you will see if you study the picture with the yakkington ring. The ascended ring has 4% higher base stats than the exotic ring including jewel. Which means that technically ascended gear versus exotic gear (if we exclude the use of jewels) is an increase of 41,7%. Do note though that it is not a fair comparison if we do not count jewels.

True, my bad.

[Achromatis]

The amount of knee-jerking self entitlement in this thread is rather disgusting.

Manzana, on 14 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Look at people's join dates.  Most of the most adamant joined after the whole potions, no energy, weapon-bound skills fiascoes   They'll learn that Anet tends to not screw up their game.

Exactly. ANet isnt Bioware.

Gear progression does not always mean "Gear treadmill" either, its just usually done that way because most games are subscription games(or start out that way, ala LotRO and SWTOR) and need the timesinks to stretch profit. Honestly even if ANet did put in more gear progression I wouldnt be worried, because I bet they would do it in such a way that wasnt a pain in the arse for the players.

[Majic]

Achromatis, on 14 November 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

The amount of knee-jerking self entitlement in this thread is rather disgusting.

Indeed, and comments like these are perfect examples of it.

[adra12]

My biggest gripe remains that statistically better gear is being introduced that according to ANet Member comments will initially only be available through a single dungeon for part and the mystic forge for the other part but will be for certain builds effective for all play styles including open world PvE, magic find(clear from the screenshots) and WvW.

In addition to this being completely contrary to their manifesto idea about playing the game the way you enjoy should allow you to get to the same level of gear and effectiveness as every other way. It also makes balancing of certain builds and classes (something that has drawn a lot of complaining on forums) harder because these new Ascended item will be a direct benefit to certain builds (looks to be specifically offensively and defensively heavy builds), as they add more and more pieces of Ascended gear this balance will change each time effectively restarting the balancing effort.

[Omega X]

Dove, on 14 November 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

Two problems:

1. As many have mentioned, there's currently no stat difference between Exotic/Legendary. The few people who have Legendaries will be just fine because they'll still have max weapons after they get buffed. The vast majority of people who are on Exotics will experience this as a gear treadmill.

2. Unless I'm totally missing something, they're introducing Ascended class *armor* pieces (even if only trinkets/back at this stage, you can tell they're intending to include full Ascended armors in the future from Linsey's post), and since there is no Legendary armor, therefore no "gap" they keep talking about, armor is a wholly different discussion, and EVERYONE in current max gear will experience this as a treadmill.

I'm very disappointed in this.

This is the point that keeps getting reiterated. But it seems that defenders are purposefully brick walling every attempt at driving this point home as "whining".

[Xenigma]

Wow, ArenaNet adds in a new gear tier to bridge the absurd gap between Exotic and Legendary in response to community criticism, and in response said community panics like this is the death of GW2?  I'm perfectly fine with the idea, but it's a shame so many are wrongly concluding this means a gear treadmill is inevitable and that GW2 will somehow become a worse game as a result.

[RabidusIncendia]

Xenigma, on 14 November 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

Wow, ArenaNet adds in a new gear tier to bridge the absurd gap between Exotic and Legendary in response to community criticism, and in response said community panics like this is the death of GW2?  I'm perfectly fine with the idea, but it's a shame so many are wrongly concluding this means a gear treadmill is inevitable and that GW2 will somehow become a worse game as a result.

What is this "gap",  I don't get it!  Adding a new STAT GEAR increases the "gap" since you need to now get that new stat gear in addition to getting everything for the legendary!

Someone please explain this to me.  Unless people are suddenly using this new language where gap doesn't actually have anything to do with the english usage of the word "gap"

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 14 November 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[chuckles79]

Lordkrall, on 14 November 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

Which is exactly what they will do when Ascended weapons come.

I thought I had heard that, but I wasn't certain.

[Vahkris]

RabidusIncendia, on 14 November 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

What is this "gap",  I don't get it!  Adding a new STAT GEAR increases the "gap" since you need to now get that new stat gear in addition to getting everything for the legendary!

Someone please explain this to me.  Unless people are suddenly using this new language where gap doesn't actually have anything to do with the english usage of the word "gap"

Time and Effort.

It takes a certain amount of time and effort to get an exotic (which at this point isn't a huge amount once you're 80).  It takes a different, much longer amount of time and effort to get a legendary.  The "gap" is the difference between the amount of time and effort it takes to get an exotic and a legendary.

[RabidusIncendia]

Vahkris, on 14 November 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Time and Effort.

It takes a certain amount of time and effort to get an exotic (which at this point isn't a huge amount once you're 80).  It takes a different, much longer amount of time and effort to get a legendary.  The "gap" is the difference between the amount of time and effort it takes to get an exotic and a legendary.

Explain how this gap matters to someone trying to get a legendary.  In a positive way I mean.  They're tyring to spin this in the most nonsensical way I can think of.  I wish they would just come out and say "we're screwing the casuals because we found our demographic is more tilted to WoW players now", that's all it is.  Can anyone who's farming for a legendary say " you know what I need? To farm even MORE for it since I need to farm for something else first now!"

[Matsy]

Vahkris, on 14 November 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Time and Effort.

It takes a certain amount of time and effort to get an exotic (which at this point isn't a huge amount once you're 80).  It takes a different, much longer amount of time and effort to get a legendary.  The "gap" is the difference between the amount of time and effort it takes to get an exotic and a legendary.

This "gap" is already filled with all the other exotics you can get that are special to the mystic forge and other rare exotics that take a long time to acquire (not as long as legendary), most people seem to just dismiss these items as just regular exotics.

Anet are just extending the goal posts...again, and using an excuse to try to justify it there was no "gap" to begin with.  If these ascended items where supposed to be put in the first place, why are they not the same stats? why raise the stats at all if its supposed to be between exotics and legendary's, surely if these where to "fill a gap" they would be the same stats just with special skins or whatever (like we already have in the mystic forge just no one pays attention to them apparently).

Edited by Matsy, 14 November 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[Ritualist]

Manzana, on 14 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Look at people's join dates.  Most of the most adamant joined after the whole potions, no energy, weapon-bound skills fiascoes   They'll learn that Anet tends to not screw up their game.

Guild Wars 1 says HEY!