299 replies to this topic

[AureliusRex]

Ravenseye, on 14 November 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

Wait, having armor rated from common to legendary is somehow not a treadmill? I already knew treadmills were in the game before it even came out, there are treadmills all in it, but as long as I do not need it or forced to do it then it's ok with me and no, to me it does not look like it's absolutely necessary but i'll wait for final judgments until it actually goes live.

Technically we had a ladder.  Something with a bottom and a top.  adding new tiers after the "top" tier is what makes a treadmill.

[Roland Der Meister]

AureliusRex, on 14 November 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

Technically we had a ladder.  Something with a bottom and a top.  adding new tiers after the "top" tier is what makes a treadmill.

Yes Its treadmill is it forced though no as long as its not forced and casual can obtain its just a easily as every one else then its not a big deal and gives you something to do. Cause quite frankly there was little to do after getting your legendarys in this game sense legendarys required you do pretty much every thing in the game to get them.

[Lord Sojar]

Tellia, on 14 November 2012 - 03:47 AM, said:

they already said they wouldnt introduce vertical progression, and they just did it. they went back on their word. so what if they say now that they wont release new tiers of gear every so often? theyve already let us know that not only they think its ok to do that, but that they are ALSO willing to go back on their word. everything they say can be taken with a grain of salt, from this point on.

Do you actually read anything before posting?  

I mean, really...

This outrage is so funny, it's actually coming across as pathetic.  

People are reading into things and theorizing wildly different outcomes to something an benign as adding a missing tier between the very top and the current perceived top.  They didn't add gear above Legendary status.  This is gap filling.  It's to patch an oversight not remedied before release.  Why is this difficult to understand?  They aren't going to gear treadmill us, that's not Guild Wars/ANET's style.  Sigh....

[Plasticblanket]

pswendel, on 14 November 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

Perhaps. Or perhaps the fans need to relax. We pay no money and still demand based on entitlements. This community is messed up.

I recall PAYING $60 for this game, so your statement is complete BS

[Wordsworth]

They're only three months late on mentioning, "Hey, you might not want to spend dozens of gold or god knows how many mats crafting those exotics, they're not the last tier."

Edited by Wordsworth, 14 November 2012 - 04:45 AM.

[AureliusRex]

Roland Der Meister, on 14 November 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

Yes Its treadmill is it forced though no as long as its not forced and casual can obtain its just a easily as every one else then its not a big deal and gives you something to do. Cause quite frankly there was little to do after getting your legendarys in this game sense legendarys required you do pretty much every thing in the game to get them.

Yes I agree that once you've done everything in the game there's not much else to do...

Thing is they're giving us new content, with the promise of a bunch more new content to do over time.  That means new stuff to do.  Nothing intrinsically wrong with new gear either, everybody wants new stuff.  So what's the need to add new stats?  It just stirrs up a hornets nest for no good reason.

[ilr]

Chava Blue, on 14 November 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

I feel a lot better about this after reading that explanation.

...and I thought everyone was flipping out for nothing, UNTIL I read this explanation.
I'm not kidding, I was largely ignoring this whole QQ-fest until I saw Martin post this.

This cancer is getting spread to other areas of the game where we never asked for it? ...other dungeons & WvW especially?  ...Is this what they were talking about when they said they'd be adding stuff to the story modes that made the Explorables easier??  Why didn't they just buff CRAFTING instead and let crafters shoulder the "grind" of making this stuff.  It sure sounded like they were the ones who wanted to since all they bitch about all day long is how everything they make only sells for 1c over Vendor price. (which is a 15% loss after triple listing fee).

Edited by ilr, 14 November 2012 - 07:03 AM.

[Reiden221]

Plasticblanket, on 14 November 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

I recall PAYING $60 for this game, so your statement is complete BS

So when is your 60$ up?  When do you get over your elitist self entitled attitude?

Cause personally, I've already played more hours than just about any other game I spent 60$ on, and have also received more updates/improvements/extra content than any other game I spent 60$ on.  Oh, I also didn't have to spend an extra 15$ for 3 extra kitten maps, or buy a whole other expansion so I could play through the campaign of the other races.

Basically, Anet could turn GW2 off and I would have gotten my moneys worth, or they could disable live servers and turn it into a single player game and it would still be better than just about anything else on the market.

I agree, this community is f'd in the head, but that's what WoW did to MMO's.  Thanks Blizzard.  Kittenheads.

[AureliusRex]

Lord Sojar, on 14 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Do you actually read anything before posting?  

I mean, really...

This outrage is so funny, it's actually coming across as pathetic.  

People are reading into things and theorizing wildly different outcomes to something an benign as adding a missing tier between the very top and the current perceived top.  They didn't add gear above Legendary status.  This is gap filling.  It's to patch an oversight not remedied before release.  Why is this difficult to understand?  They aren't going to gear treadmill us, that's not Guild Wars/ANET's style.  Sigh....

Honestly I don't think anyone here cares if there's one level of gear added between exotics and  legendaries or 100.  Its the stat inflation that has everyone up in arms.

[Soryuju]

Lord Sojar, on 14 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Do you actually read anything before posting?  

I mean, really...

This outrage is so funny, it's actually coming across as pathetic.  

People are reading into things and theorizing wildly different outcomes to something an benign as adding a missing tier between the very top and the current perceived top.  They didn't add gear above Legendary status.  This is gap filling.  It's to patch an oversight not remedied before release.  Why is this difficult to understand?  They aren't going to gear treadmill us, that's not Guild Wars/ANET's style.  Sigh....

I'm with you on this...the term "gear treadmill" is only accurate if Anet continues to release tiers of gear above Ascended and/or Legendary.  You don't have a treadmill if the highest tier of gear doesn't keep moving while you're trying to catch up.  They explicitly said that Ascended is the end of it, that Ascended is only being introduced to fill in the disproportionately large gap between Exotic and Legendary tiers.  This post went on to address just about every major concern raised since the initial announcement, so I don't know what's left to speculate on.  If they do add new tiers (outside of major expansions, which seems pretty reasonable to me), fine, burn Anet at the stake, they lied and deserve it. But until then, what on earth is everyone freaking out about?

On a more positive note, since a couple people brought it up, I still find GW2's community preferable to Blizzard's.  Here it's just people getting hysterical because they're afraid Anet's going to ruin a game they enjoy.  Over there, people are just immature, mocking and cruel toward the developers, and you seriously stop to ask why they're still bothering to play the games, because all you can find in their posts is adamant hatred for everything related to the games.

[ilr]

Get your facts straight Sojar...  The information put out yesterday and today clearly states that Legendaries are getting their Stats increased as well.  What we had last week was a mostly-easily obtained Gear-Summit.  There was no gap between Legendaries and Exotics last week. This news hits that reality with a bat, pours scalding water on it, and throws it out the window They've altered the deal.... Pray they don't alter any further

OH WAIT ONE MORE THING...
all this stuff they said was only going to affect 1 dungeon...  will eventually affect vast areas of the game

They've altered the deal.... Pray they don't alter it any further

and in a couple more months...

They've altered the deal.... Pray they don't alter it any further

Edited by ilr, 14 November 2012 - 05:21 AM.

[Guardian of the Light]

This response made me feel somewhat better but I still don't like the idea of adding a new tier. I mean was there any reason this tier couldn't be the same as exotics except with infusions?

[Korra]

There is this thing taht keeps bothering me, Exotics and legendearies have the same stats yet they keep saying " a tier between leendaries and exotics"...

Also they say they will add more legendaries, do you think they will use the same gift of fortune and majesty? I have them both, worth saving?

[sanctuaire]

was planning on getting the dreamer.
now .. i'll wait off a bit, maybe there'll be a legendary
shortbow that fires flying kittens instead.


knew it was only for pve, infused armor meant nothing in gw1's pvp as well.

[Ellipsis]

I don’t understand how this post alleviates the complaints of gear grinding.

Legendary weapons were introduced into the game as means of “end game,” so that people could spend a lot of time grinding and feel rewarded. They have similar stats to exotics as to not violate the skill>time concept they pushed in their manifesto.

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards.”

So how exactly is this not a gear treadmill? Instead of spending time grinding for legendary (which now have better stats than exotics), I now have to spend time grinding for ascendant armor BEFORE I start grinding for legendary items just so I can remain relevant to end-game in order to grind for legendary items?

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

You might want to clarify this with Murdock on this one:
“As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game.  Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.

You’ll also see more Legendary items in the future and an update to our existing Legendary weapons. Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power. We also have plans to add more fun ways to acquire Legendary precursor items with a more “scavenger hunt” feel than they are acquired currently.”

It says here that two new tiers of items being added in the upcoming months, the first of which is served as a buffer to acquire the second set.

BTW, instead of throwing us red herrings and non sequiturs, could you please just say you are adopting the gear treadmill? A little honesty would go a long ways.

[Killad]

ilr, on 14 November 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

Get your facts straight Sojar...  The information put out yesterday and today clearly states that Legendaries are getting their Stats increased as well.  What we had last week was a mostly-easily obtained Gear-Summit.  There was no gap between Legendaries and Exotics last week. This news hits that reality with a bat, pours scalding water on it, and throws it out the window They've altered the deal.... Pray they don't alter any further

OH WAIT ONE MORE THING...
all this stuff they said was only going to affect 1 dungeon...  will eventually affect vast areas of the game

They've altered the deal.... Pray they don't alter it any further

and in a couple more months...

They've altered the deal.... Pray they don't alter it any further

Gear Progression is good. Exactly what we need.

btw. You  Some people belive in an invisble man in the moon who promised us salvation. His son is a zombielord. Or to what do you want us to pray to? (btw. Trying to give us orders doesnt really sell your point. Even if you dont use the "!" and use religious language to hide the fact.)

@Ellipsis: What people like you dont understand is that reality changes. The Manifesto wasnt some kind of 10 Commandments which would always remain untouched. MMO's are built on change and if people dont like farming Orr for hours on end and/or doing WvsW but instead are leaving in large quantities and are also crying everywhere ( read the threads about longlivity/no endgame/borring) then either GW2 adapts or it goes down.

Edited by Killad, 14 November 2012 - 06:21 AM.

[Rielesh]

We already have progression in game fine masterwork rare exotic legendary etc
but there is huge hole between cheapest exotic to the rarest skins and then legendaries.

IF this is implemented well it it might work just fine and it'll be nice improvement to the game.
As long they do not introduce next tiers later like exalted, heroic etc it's going to be fine.

Ellipsis, on 14 November 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

So how exactly is this not a gear treadmill? Instead of spending time grinding for legendary (which now have better stats than exotics), I now have to spend time grinding for ascendant armor BEFORE I start grinding for legendary items just so I can remain relevant to end-game in order to grind for legendary items?

why before ? there is no legendary armour or no legendary requirement that you need 6/6 ascendant items to craft twilight or whatever you want

they are not going to fix RNG if you wear ascendant armour to give you better chance or they'll not scale Orr so you can't farm ..

Edited by Rielesh, 14 November 2012 - 06:19 AM.

[Reverse Ghost]

A TREADMILL implies that each new major update will contain a higher grade of gear that is required to do the new content.

Doing this once in no way means it's a treadmill. It has to happen more than once, by definition, to be a treadmill.

Now, if they do this again, then I will listen to your complaints.

Edited by Reverse Ghost, 14 November 2012 - 06:16 AM.

[ilr]

Reverse Ghost, on 14 November 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

A TREADMILL implies that each new major update will contain a higher grade of gear that is required to do the new content.

Doing this once in no way means it's a treadmill.

Are you just not clear on what these Defensive Infusions DO?

Everytime they add a new epic Encounter, they also stated there would be new infusions added too that make that encounter doable.  Were you not clear on how difficult it was to fight the Mursaat without being fully infused??

[IsThisNameTaken]

Reverse Ghost, on 14 November 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

A TREADMILL implies that each new major update will contain a higher grade of gear that is required to do the new content.

Doing this once in no way means it's a treadmill. It has to happen more than once, by definition, to be a treadmill.

Now, if they do this again, then I will listen to your complaints.

The problem is that once you do this once, each subsequent time you plan on doing it and implementing it because easier. This may not be a treadmill yet; but the power switch is turned on; maybe not for the treadmill, but very likely. It is the _ extreme likelihood_ that the switch (this update) belongs to the treadmill that is causing people to panic.

[Reverse Ghost]

IsThisNameTaken, on 14 November 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

The problem is that once you do this once, each subsequent time you plan on doing it and implementing it because easier. This may not be a treadmill yet; but the power switch is turned on; maybe not for the treadmill, but very likely. It is the _ extreme likelihood_ that the switch (this update) belongs to the treadmill that is causing people to panic.

I understand why people are freaking out at the future potential for ArenaNet to do this again, but people are calling it a treadmill right now and I just don't agree with that mindset.

If another major patch comes out in the future with a new "tier" of gear that is statistically better than Ascended and the only way to complete the new content in that patch is to first get that gear, then I will call it a treadmill.

[Milennin]

Tellia, on 14 November 2012 - 03:47 AM, said:

they already said they wouldnt introduce vertical progression, and they just did it. they went back on their word. so what if they say now that they wont release new tiers of gear every so often? theyve already let us know that not only they think its ok to do that, but that they are ALSO willing to go back on their word. everything they say can be taken with a grain of salt, from this point on.

Actually they said long before release that they would increase level cap after launch, so yes, we knew vertical progression would come.

[Reverse Ghost]

ilr, on 14 November 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Are you just not clear on what these Defensive Infusions DO?

Everytime they add a new epic Encounter, they also stated there would be new infusions added too that make that encounter doable.  Were you not clear on how difficult it was to fight the Mursaat without being fully infused??

Interesting. I'd like to get a look at that, I might have missed it. Where can I see it?

[Coren]

So what he's saying is there IS a gear treadmill, just comes out more spaced out than other MMOs? The fact that you can get the ascended gear differently than dungeons doesn't change the fact that after exotics there's still a tier of gear to go for after working for your exotics.

In a few years, will people even go for exotics when the community is all about ascended, or what ever is more powerful at the time?

[Roland Der Meister]

My Only top 2 concerns is in the mouths to come are  

1.There gonna let the new ascended gear be exclusively obtained doing certain content

2.Legendary armor gets introduced and then legendarys get a second stats boost on there own making them absolutely better then Ascended items.

[ilr]

Milennin, on 14 November 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

Actually they said long before release that they would increase level cap after launch, so yes, we knew vertical progression would come.

True, but offtopic.

Definition of treadmill is adding content that requires you to repeat that content dozens of times in order to finish that content or finish it faster:  IE: a true raid.  And that's exactly what these items promise.  They are completely different from Legendaries in that legendaries will now have higher stats than Exotics or equal to Ascended, but without the set of uncustomizable stats.  ...what Ascended items have instead is a slot specifically for a type of Defensive "Immunity" that makes a niche Dungeon or Encounter doable or done faster.  ....SO, you're now on a treadmill...  you are doing it for no other reason than to get more "fit" so you can walk through it faster each day.  The niche reward is the very item that allows you to get more Fit.

Now maybe that's fine and dandy when it only happens everytime they want to release a new "Super Challenging" Dungeon for people like me who think parts of Arah are now "too easy".  But what is that challenge based on??  It's based on whether you have the Non-customizable gear that includes these Infusion slots. Not on Skill or personal stat-preference that compliments your build... but purely on Infusion-Slot  And again, it doesn't stop there, what makes this new information so damning is that they're not limiting this to just these niche Super-Dungeons now.  They're clearly saying it will start to spread to lots of other areas of the game

Reverse Ghost, on 14 November 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Interesting. I'd like to get a look at that, I might have missed it. Where can I see it?

^ "UNUSED DEFENSIVE INFUSION SLOT" ^

Edited by ilr, 14 November 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[Plasticblanket]

Reiden221, on 14 November 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

So when is your 60$ up?  When do you get over your elitist self entitled attitude?

Cause personally, I've already played more hours than just about any other game I spent 60$ on, and have also received more updates/improvements/extra content than any other game I spent 60$ on.  Oh, I also didn't have to spend an extra 15$ for 3 extra kitten maps, or buy a whole other expansion so I could play through the campaign of the other races.

Basically, Anet could turn GW2 off and I would have gotten my moneys worth, or they could disable live servers and turn it into a single player game and it would still be better than just about anything else on the market.

I agree, this community is f'd in the head, but that's what WoW did to MMO's.  Thanks Blizzard.  Kittenheads.

I was just stating that we did infact pay for the game, however it seems that you have some very serious underlying issues.

The game itself was bound to be torn apart by GW1 players like myself, not because we hate the game but because we loved everything about GW1.

Things change as does everything but, seeing fundamental changes to the game is just weird and feel like betrayel.

[Serris]

Zedabi, on 14 November 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

So...

• No gear treadmill will be introduced in the sense that every update will contain stronger gear
  
• WvW players can play WvW to get Ascended items and Infusions
  
• Fractals of the Mists won't be the only place to get Ascended gear
  
• SPvP won't be affected by Ascended gear
  
• They'll be working on other progression systems as well (fingers crossed for Skill Hunting)

Did I miss or misinterpret anything?

If not, that doesn't sound too bad.

it sounds like how you understand it. but keep in mind that they are talking about all the expansions leading up to the next expansion, the sum total of those will be the content of an expansion. so what we're seeing now is ascended gear only from the dungeon, but maybe in future updates they'll add those to wvw and other places.

[Asudementio]

Why did they even have an exotic tier of items why not just have kept it to masterworks or better yet blues.... A little bit of vertical progression isn't a bad thing....

[Rielesh]

Serris, on 14 November 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

it sounds like how you understand it. but keep in mind that they are talking about all the expansions leading up to the next expansion, the sum total of those will be the content of an expansion. so what we're seeing now is ascended gear only from the dungeon, but maybe in future updates they'll add those to wvw and other places.

and that is problem? or is community going to complain about free exp pack and demanding 10$ dlc for dungeon?

Plasticblanket, on 14 November 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

I was just stating that we did infact pay for the game, however it seems that you have some very serious underlying issues.

The game itself was bound to be torn apart by GW1 players like myself, not because we hate the game but because we loved everything about GW1.

Things change as does everything but, seeing fundamental changes to the game is just weird and feel like betrayel.

this was to be expected GW1 is coop rpg well more like single player rpg in past years but GW2 is MMO .

There are some features that you cannot use in mmo so it was bound to be disliked by original gw 1 players.

While I agree that many things could been implemented better and if ascended items were in game from day 1 this shitstorm would never happen but we all know they rushed release of GW2 and to this day it feels like beta in some parts.

Edited by Rielesh, 14 November 2012 - 07:12 AM.