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My only problem with Mesmers.


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#1 Ozbaab

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:32 AM

Ok so I'm constantly switching classes. I leveled an Engineer to 80 and thought that was great fun but I still felt like.. I needed something else.
So I made a Mesmer and he's level 60 atm, but not 1 day goes by without me thinking about what other class would be cool to try out and me making another character and playing 30 mins - 1hr on that character, before deleting it.

The problem I have with Mesmers are.. Their skills.. If they are not for utility only, they are for PvP(?) I mean there are tons of skills that cures boons, transfer boons/conditions, reflects projectiles/attacks, turn you + friends invisible, etc, etc..
I guess I would love to have a little more personal pewpew like the mantra of pain.. but more fun.
I think SPvP is awesome but I'm not so much for WvW.

While some skills are awesome to have in dungeons, they have these huge cooldowns..

What do you guys think? Should I switch class or does it get more awesome with these skills the more you do dungeons etc?

Thanks,

#2 Bottoms_Up

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:39 AM

For PvE I tend to grab the utilities that enable combo fields. Not obvious pewpew, but they do add to the numbers and speed up the damage output. Also clone generating utilities if you are shatter build. There's a sigil that stuns/dazes (can't remember which) as well, which can be handy.

Edited by Bottoms_Up, 14 November 2012 - 08:43 AM.


#3 Ozbaab

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:50 AM

Thanks, I have to read up on combos as I have almost no idea what that is.

#4 jpg1

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:27 PM

I just started with my own Mesmer, and I haven't figured out what to do with it just yet. From what I've gathered so far, everyone's saying that the Mesmer is a pain to train from 1 to 40. After that, things get a bit more interesting. I'm surprised with your post since you've already hit a level way above 40 and you haven't found your niche with the class yet or find it boring even.

Coming from a main character which is a Soldier class (Guardian), the Mesmer poses a great challenge for me. While Guardians tend to play slow at times, the Mesmer proves to be even slower. There are expectations that I have to adjust when playing across characters now. I have to constantly remind myself that I am not as thick anymore, I don't have the ridiculously high healing or passive healing to save my ass. It's hard at times but very fun because the screen is just full of me. (the Mesmer). While Guardian plays steadily, the Mesmer now fills my screen with clones and respectively lots of numbers from skills, conditions, and shattering. It's just crazy.

And when I read up on how better it gets, I just can't wait. What I'm trying to say is, it helps to read off the forum sometimes. People are really helpful. So far I've read about Shatter Builds, Legion Builds, and Mantra Builds. So there are lots of stuff out there. It's just a matter of pushing and clicking a bit. Good luck! :)

Edited by jpg1, 14 November 2012 - 01:28 PM.


#5 Angelus359

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

You have a 60 and an 80, but don't know what combo fields are?

My highest is a 53, and I use combo fields all the damn time!

#6 Arxae

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:20 PM

I am constantly switching between classes too,  they all have something that is awesome about them. which is good, but it doesn't help me decide :P

The nice thing about combofields is that you just use them. you don't need to do extra effort to do combo's they just happen naturally (which is good). But if you do pay attention and to the extra effort to line a combo up, you will notice and be a better player because of it :D

#7 Tarug

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:36 PM

I'll always favor playing what you enjoy, so I think you need to give the mesmer a fair shake and, if you end up not enjoying it, you shouldn't force yourself to play something you don't like. There are people who like being in the front lines dealing tons of damage, they'll probably enjoy a warrior more than a mesmer. On the other hand, I suggest giving some different builds a try - it seems you didn't find one that was right for you yet.

If you came from the Engineer background, I might assume you miss the great AoE damage - you could try a shatter build. It's not as smooth as the Engineer, but can be quite fun. If you go for it, you'll definitely need Mirror Images. Another good option would be Decoy, since it works as both a clone producer and a stealth survival skill.

If you miss the big dmg numbers and want to work on dungeons, you might want a Power/Precision Phantasm build. In that case I would probably take skills like Feedback and Null Field - they are useful and flexible skills and work as combo fields to boot. Want more pewpew? Throw a Feedback bubble on the right enemy and he'll literally kill himself in seconds! If he doesn't, cast Mirror Blade and an iBerserker on top of that and he'll take lots of damage, vulnerability, bleeding (depending on your build), and confusion (from the combo field)!

I hope this helps and that you find the right set up for you!

Edited by Tarug, 14 November 2012 - 06:44 PM.


#8 Phenn

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:49 PM

I've found that the Mesmer necessitates a much higher level of micromanagement to maintain a constant DPS. You're watching cooldowns, managing clone/phantasm placement and health, managing targeting (have to drop illusions on a target), and keeping a constant watch on mob attack animations for interrupts/blocks/reflects, etc. This is where the Mesmer is fun for me. Sure you don't kill things quickly--but there's just something exhilarating about wading into a pile of mobs plus a champion and walking back out again unscathed having dropped everything. Same thing goes for WvW--messing with the minds of enemy players plus dropping all sorts of utilities on your allies = fun.

Essentially, the Mesmer is all about being in total control of the battle from start to finish. You're not reacting, you're guiding.

Now when I jump back to my Death Blossom spam Thief, I've found the practice in management to have helped immensely in spreading out damage and staying alive. But the Thief still doesn't have control of the battlefield like the Mesmer.

#9 Ozbaab

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

Strangely I didn't think the first 40 levels were that difficult, I played mostly with dual swords or sword/pistol and it worked out fine.
I have recently switched to a staff, condition + shatter build and it is indeed very much fun!

Well thanks for all the awesome replies!

Edited by Ozbaab, 14 November 2012 - 06:14 PM.


#10 plasmon

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

My problem with mesmer (just level 20) is that clones and phantasms are both aggro magnets and die in 1 hit. Logically thinking a clone should be useful to distract a mob and get the heat off you since the damn thing does not do any damage anyways. But the freaking clones die in 1 hit... the mob can basically just swat at it on the way to beating my azz. Then we have the phantasms who do decent damage. But again they just get 1 volley of damage before being swatted aside.

Wouldn't it make sense to make clones aggro magnets with more health. And phantasms not attracting so much aggro to compensate for dying so quickly?

Generally I have not had any issues killing mobs 1v1 or even 1v2 to steadily completing hearts. But in DEs I get smacked regularly especially now-a-days since there are not many people playing low level characters anymore.

I guess I have a lot to learn about playing this class. I definitely should not have played a faceroll warrior and faceroll ranger before :-(

Edited by plasmon, 14 November 2012 - 08:47 PM.


#11 A Leg Like This

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

There is definitely a threshold in Mesmer playability/fun somewhere between L30 and L40 where you hit a curve. My mesmer has become increasingly fun as a few trait options are enabled. I think the class has a bit of design weakness pre L40; a lot of the really amazing traits that mesmers rely on are in tier 2.

At level 25, the mesmer was a frantic but predictable grind. At L35, a hybrid condition/shatter PVE build can compete with thieves for bursting down single targets if you know what you're doing and have cooldowns up. It's amazing.

View PostPhenn, on 14 November 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

I've found that the Mesmer necessitates a much higher level of micromanagement to maintain a constant DPS. You're watching cooldowns, managing clone/phantasm placement and health, managing targeting (have to drop illusions on a target), and keeping a constant watch on mob attack animations for interrupts/blocks/reflects, etc.

Like Thieves but unlike Engineers or perhaps Elementalists, Mesmers need A Plan very badly to perform. You pick your weapons, and given your cooldowns you have a plan to maximize damage, clone/phantasm generation, minimize the impact of channeling time, and keep distorted or reflected when in harm's way. This can (and should) express as micro-managing, but I think it also helps to just know, "This is how I start fights, this is how I react to adds, this is how I escape, this is how I buy time to heal."

I also think that that Mesmers have a lot of abilities that people do not fully appreciate the implications of. Mantra of Recovery/Power Return is a great example: you can be channeling a phantasm or a greatsword autoattacking and heal at the same time–a somewhat unusual trick.  I wish there were more resources to help people realize the implications of these (besides randomly noticing them on low-res youtube videos).

Edited by A Leg Like This, 14 November 2012 - 08:56 PM.


#12 Sans

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:24 PM

Love the mesmers because they require a lot of work (in melee, i love using my sword)
Using clones as bombs and conditions is the best way i've found to do damage.
In the end though, Mesmers don't have the highest damage output, so I run mines as a conditions/boons mes.



#13 jpg1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:20 AM

View PostSans, on 14 November 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

Love the mesmers because they require a lot of work (in melee, i love using my sword)
Using clones as bombs and conditions is the best way i've found to do damage.
In the end though, Mesmers don't have the highest damage output, so I run mines as a conditions/boons mes.


Mind sharing your build, Sans? And which gears?

#14 Perversion

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:54 AM

View PostSans, on 14 November 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

Love the mesmers because they require a lot of work (in melee, i love using my sword)
Using clones as bombs and conditions is the best way i've found to do damage.
In the end though, Mesmers don't have the highest damage output, so I run mines as a conditions/boons mes.



Love your video. Climatic and so mesmerize ^ ^

View Postjpg1, on 15 November 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

Mind sharing your build, Sans? And which gears?

Its not Sans build, but I used it when leveling.
http://gw2skills.net...LM3A;TMArCGQsFB
Shatter spec, armor with power/crit/crit chance and if u have money rune of the Divinity or rune of the Air. Good in WWW too, pvp also  :)
I cant tell Mesmer have bad dps in pve compared to other classes cos its my only character. I never had problems in events to get gold medal.
This combination of weapons dont have much cooldowns (greatsword and sword), you have both melee and ranged dps. And remember to use shatters F1-F4 its main power of this build.
Early levels was hard, but from 30+ it was delicious <3

#15 jpg1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:01 AM

View PostPerversion, on 15 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:


Its not Sans build, but I used it when leveling.

http://gw2skills.net...LM3A;TMArCGQsFB


Thanks man. There's a mixed opinion whether to get Berserker's (POW/PRE/CRIT) or Rampager's (POW/PRE/CONDITION) for shatter builds. What's your opinion with using Rampager's instead?

#16 Barrun

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:20 AM

With a greatsword shatter build berserker's is superior for damage at 80 in dungeons, confusion isn't reliable enough to justify condition damage, however In pvp/wvw rampager's is a good choice. I keep a berserker's set with runes of the scholar for dungeoning, and a rampager's set with runes of the centaur for wvw. For leveling I would strongly suggest getting a fair amount of toughness, it makes a night and day difference, power/toughness/precision is what you should aim for; don't bother with runes while leveling, the stat bonus' from gems is way better and a lot cheaper.

For those that are discouraged at lower levels, just stick with it, it'll pay off at level 80. As far as utility skills go, mirror image is excellent for creating burst damage with shatters, I generally run feedback/null field/mirror image in dungeons, and change them around depending on the fight.

Null field isn't particularly good for leveling, but mirror image and feedback are both solid in almost all situations, don't underestimate the power of mimic either, it can be a great tool for running around open world. Mirror image/feedback/signet of illusions I would highly recommend.

#17 Mister Stygian

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:10 AM

Wait, you don't think mesmers have the highest damage output?  I still haven't gotten a ranger and an engineer to 80 but somehow I don't think they are going to top the mesmer, just like none of the other classes have.  Playing mesmer before I played theif, the other class people throw out there for damage talk, actually made the theif almost unplayable when you stack them up.  If you aren't trying to farm mobs with a zerg, mesmer is the best class.

Edited by Mister Stygian, 15 November 2012 - 07:12 AM.


#18 Perversion

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:04 AM

View Postjpg1, on 15 November 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

Thanks man. There's a mixed opinion whether to get Berserker's (POW/PRE/CRIT) or Rampager's (POW/PRE/CONDITION) for shatter builds. What's your opinion with using Rampager's instead?

If you want take Rampager's (POW/PRE/CONDITION) I think gonna be better switch Greatsword for Staff.
Staff is great weapon for condition damage and support. Chaos Storm * iDuelist combo and Chaos Storm * Phase Retreat (free Chaos Armor). Storm is one of best Mesmer skill but with long cooldown. You got nice condition damage, support for you and for your team.
It depends of your playstyle. Try play Staff/Sword/Pistol with Rampager and Greatsword/Sword/Pistol with Berserker and after some time you will see what you like better. Some of Mesmers use GS and some Staff, both combinations are really powerfull and suit for this build but they are different. Play play play and you will see :)
Time Warp FTW for Dungeons !
Mesmer is not as good in aoe damage as Elementalist but we are great in killing Veterans and Bosses solo. Not every class can do :)

#19 jpg1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:34 PM

View PostPerversion, on 15 November 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:


Snip


Got it. I think I like how the Staff plays right now. It has a pretty interesting skill mix, similar how to I really enjoy using Staff on my Guardian even for offense. You got it right - just keep on playing.

#20 draxynnic

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:38 PM

View Postplasmon, on 14 November 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

My problem with mesmer (just level 20) is that clones and phantasms are both aggro magnets and die in 1 hit. Logically thinking a clone should be useful to distract a mob and get the heat off you since the damn thing does not do any damage anyways. But the freaking clones die in 1 hit... the mob can basically just swat at it on the way to beating my azz. Then we have the phantasms who do decent damage. But again they just get 1 volley of damage before being swatted aside.

Wouldn't it make sense to make clones aggro magnets with more health. And phantasms not attracting so much aggro to compensate for dying so quickly?
There is a signet you can get that buffs illusion health, and a trait that buffs phantasm health.

Mind you, what I went straight for in the early levels was Crippling Dissipation and Debilitating Dissipation - that way the mobs taking out your clones is something that helps you. Crippling especially should help your problem, since if they're crippled from busting your clone they're not getting in your face.
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#21 JStone610

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:08 AM

View PostSans, on 14 November 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:





Where's that door you threw the rock at?

#22 Naglifar

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:24 AM

leveling a mesmer you will do more 'work' to meet the same 'ends' as other classes.

at 80 you have enough different types of abilities to carry a PUG dungeon run through most dungeons. With an organized party and an organized party build you bring a significant amount of utility to the table.

Things unique to mesmer:
copy paste your boon duration's to the entire party.
Multiple forms of AoE Reflection fields, certain builds can maintain almost a 60-70% reflection uptime for most encounters.
Party-wide quickness boon--amazing for speeding up runs.
Portals--amazing for speeding up runs, jumping puzzles, and helping people who struggle with environmental hazards.
Many forms of invulnerability: enables you to 'mitigate' certain devastating npc abilities.
Mesmers are the only class that can trait for perma-protection (~30 sec stack), and then spread that to the entire party.
Also, most people do not realize that mesmers are similar to guardians, in that they can provide party-wide Aegis (block) via smart Chaos Storm placement.

Edited by Naglifar, 25 November 2012 - 02:25 AM.


#23 Italyguy08

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:59 AM

View PostNaglifar, on 25 November 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

Mesmers are the only class that can trait for perma-protection (~30 sec stack), and then spread that to the entire party.

Can you do that with how you trait or do you use a certain rune set?

#24 ATourist

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:16 PM

I think because you don't seem to delve into the classes much. So you've leveled a mesmer up to level 60 but you haven't been using any combos? What is great about mesmers is that we are quite versatile. Our utilities such as null field and feedback can be used for our personal combos as well as for other people.

There is always something another class can do better, don't expect one class to be better than the rest but there is always something to do for a mesmer. Of course there are personal utilities only such as mantra of pain and arcane thievery but really now, why support only yourself when you can benefit the team as a whole?




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