16 replies to this topic

[Jason Seven]

Let me start this by saying that I LOVE Guild Wars 2 but noticed how lacking its content is after just one week of playing! Everyone I've encountered so far has always told me how bored they are of doing various activities for nothing because every piece of gear is effectively the same. All players want is for their characters to become stronger and stronger.

That's why the gear treadmill is the absolutely best way to keep players playing your game! Everyone wants to be up to par with or even better than everyone else. It not only ensures a game's playerbase to have a constant goal to reach but also shows them how they measure up to others.

Everyone having the exact same power plateau forever will only cause players to get bored quickly and simply stop playing. Constant content updates with newer, better gear to obtain is mandatory for every single MMORPG. This is what Blizzard understood and why their MMO is commonly regarded as the best MMO in terms of content, gameplay and game design.

Skins alone aren't worth putting hours and hours into a game if those come with the same attributes of an item you already own! It's cheap, lazy game design and shows a lack of effort in developing new content. ArenaNet quickly realized this and is now correcting a grave mistake that cost them a lot of potential players.

Bottom line is, MMORPGs MUST have a constant gear treadmill and a gear gating system in order to keep people motivated and playing. Look at every other MMO currently out there, every single one has a gear treadmill simply because it is absolutely necessary to have!

To everyone currently upset about this: deal with it! This is what us players want and what we get. If you don't like it, this game isn't for you.

I hope ArenaNet will see how much players actually love this kind of design and continue developing more and more content with better and better gear for us to get!

Thank you very much for reading.

[Bloggi]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and each can be valid. I don't like the idea of a gear threadmill. Grinding for aesthetics is fine by me. Continual grinding to keep your gear setup at 'max stat' is not.

Sure, the game doesn't force us to do anything. Neither do we necessarily need 'max stat' gear to enjoy *most* (emphasis on the word 'most', because surely the new dungeon with a brand new condition will need infused gear if we're going to hope to survive it) of the content in this game. But the drive to grind for gear stats is stronger than a drive purely for aesthetics.

IMHO, creating a gear threadmill does not constitute the creation of new content. It's just building the mountain ever higher so the most dedicated players actually feel they have something more to work towards. In so doing they create a bigger rift in comparison to the more casual players who just want 'max stat' gear and either don't care about aesthetics or just want to enjoy other aspects of the game, without worrying about gear.

Mind you, the most dedicated of players will run through this sort of 'content' in a matter of days as well. Anet will not please them for any longer than a week.

Edited by Xekk, 15 November 2012 - 12:01 AM.

[Westwater]

I have to agree.  Once you get all the gear you want, GW2's lasting appeal becomes strikingly short.  Once you're in full exotics there's basically 3 things you can do at that point.  1: Do stuff in WvW, which gets old about as fast as you realize that your server either sucks ass and don't do any better with you, or you realize that your server is awesome and doesn't need you.  2: do stuff in SPvP, but I don't really count that as endgame because you can do that as soon as you make your character.  3: Work for a legendary weapon.  This seemed entirely pointless to me initially, although now with the idea that legendaries will always have their stats bumped up to the maximum equivalent, getting one sounds a lot more appealing to me now, since you'll effectively have a permanent up to date weapon.

Without a definative goal to look forward to, I don't see how anyone could have any fun with this game's PvE once you finish leveling. Unique skins are fun, but NOT good incentive to keep playing.

[kaldemeo]

You are too focused on content
I suggest that you read this blog about the difference between content and system (mechanics)

http://www.mmorpg.co...king-About.html

There are great games thats works fine without new content being added. Take a look at the oldest of the modern MMOs - Ultima Online

[Westwater]

kaldemeo, on 15 November 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

You are too focused on content
I suggest that you read this blog about the difference between content and system (mechanics)

http://www.mmorpg.co...king-About.html

There are great games thats works fine without new content being added. Take a look at the oldest of the modern MMOs - Ultima Online

"'Systems' are things like housing, player-made quests, stores, player-made dungeons,"  Well said.  All things that GW2 doesn't have.  Wait, what?

[Daesu]

Jason Seven, on 14 November 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

Bottom line is, MMORPGs MUST have a constant gear treadmill and a gear gating system in order to keep people motivated and playing. Look at every other MMO currently out there, every single one has a gear treadmill simply because it is absolutely necessary to have!

Not true.  You can have constant cosmetic grind rather than power grind, like in GW1.  I have been playing the game for 7+ years without feeling bored.

This is why I am not recommending any of my friends during this free trial period because this kind of philosophy only promotes grinding and therefore bots (who are the best grinders).  Take away the incentive to bot and watch the bot population go down.  If you feed the bots instead, more would come.

Edited by Daesu, 15 November 2012 - 12:32 AM.

[Corvindi]

Westwater, on 15 November 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

"'Systems' are things like housing, player-made quests, stores, player-made dungeons,"  Well said.  All things that GW2 doesn't have.  Wait, what?

Well maybe they should look into adding some or all of these.

[badra al duun]

It's very important, that as you continually make your gear better, that you also make your monsters tougher, otherwise the game becomes too easy!  By constantly forcing people to up their gear, to face tougher opponents, with gameplay that is the same, you create revolutionary content and keep everyone playing.

>_>

[Runkleford]

Like others have said, you can have fun and be immersed in a game without the cheap unimaginative and just plain boring gear treadmill. I realize that some folks like mindless and tedious routines but there are plenty of others who prefer their entertainment to be more stimulating.

[Mournblade]

I played Everquest for four years, and GW for seven. Everquests constant gear treadmill made me feel like I was at work. I loved how GW had max gear early on, and after that all you had to worry about was a cosmetic upgrade. I don't want to have to work to keep up.

[RabidusIncendia]

Why this thread is not a must: Theres another one.

[MisterB]

It's impossible to enjoy a game without adding more numbers. This is why level 80 is better than 20, and why more gear must always be added. They should really increase the level from 80 soon. 80 is less than 100, and bigger numbers mean a better game, because higher numbers are unquestionably more fun due to their enlarged biggitudedness.

[Songbringer]

One thing to worry about is power creep which makes games = not fun. Look at GW1 after factions, NF, and then EoTN. The power creep was ridiculous and every new game left everything more and more unbalanced. While I do like the fact that you have a goal to work for I also understand that it is a double edge sword. If you allow power creep to get out of control then the game also becomes boring and monotonous. Now the down-leveling system might help to slow power creep but it will still occur. If you release a new set of armor with better and better stats every few months then people will get to powerful and old content won't be fun anymore.

[Valkaire]

I played WoW for about 5 or 6 years and I love that GW2 does not have a gear treadmill. Even with the upcoming patch, it is not a treadmill. If they continuously do it, it will become one but at this point in time it is not. That being said, I like to take breaks from games. With WoW that didn't work because I was continuously locked out of content and couldn't play with my friends/guild unless I grinded non-stop. GW and now GW2 gives me a game that does not lock me out of content because of my gear. I can do explorable dungeons in blues, greens or yellows. Even at level 80, I am not required to have exotics to experience content.

Even with this new ascended gear, you only NEED it if you continuously grind the new dungeon. You don't need infusions to experience it, you only need them if you do it repeatedly and will most likely earn them along the way if you do indeed go through the dungeon over and over again.

Basically, you have your own opinions. You do not know what is best for this game as you do not have access to all of the statistics and data that Anet has. Please don't assume gear treadmills are needed to keep a game running.

Edited by Valkaire, 15 November 2012 - 12:45 AM.

[Dove]

GW1 worked fine without it.

[Matsy]

There is no treadmill (yet), what there is, is a power creep, and once that starts its very unlikely it wont evolve into some sort of treadmill.

[Leyana]

There is already a thread for your opinion on the new system here: http://www.guildwars...ascended-items/. There is no need to create an entirely new thread just to showcase your opinion when an existing thread covers the same topic.

Thanks