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#1 ZigKid3

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:00 AM

So I got killed by a Thief in 2 seconds
1. this isn't an exaggeration
2. this isn't a QQ

I figured it was the usual mug, CnD, backstab combo. But I took a look at the combat log anyways.

all it was was just Pistol Whip...

Infiltrator's strike
Then Pistol whip 19 times....19...
then a normal auto attack

http://imgur.com/dwCTf

Sorry it won't let me extend the chat box any more than that, there was more, but I did count exactly 19, not 18 and not 20, 19.

I see the skill costs 5 initiative (so can easily be done twice in a row).
it does a 1/2 second stun, and allows you to attack 9x with your sword.

This is what i found weird. If the thief that killed me, used pistol whip twice, why did it count it 19 times? if it counted just the sword attacks it'd be 18, or if it counted the initial hit as well, it'd be 20. so I'm not sure if it was some kind of bug that actually repeated pistol whipe multiple times or if they just used it twice and that each sword slash is just counted individually.

My other concern was how much damage was done by this.
each attack seemed to hit for about 800 per strike. 800x19=15,200+2k (infiltrators strike)+1k normal hit=18,200

15k in two seconds seems kind of ridiculous to me @.@

Is this normal for pistol whip?

#2 omar316

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:10 AM

Can I complain about how a Warrior Killshot is underpowered in this thread?

And to the OP, no clue lol.
But that is ridiculous.

#3 ZigKid3

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:25 AM

according to the tool tips of pistol whip vs. blurred frenzy:

pistol whip: 9x (765) = 6885 + 1/2 stun, and 5 initiative so can be used twice or even 3 or 4 with roll for initiative and traits.
blurred frenzy: 8x (584) = 4672 + 2 sec distortion, 10 second CD but can be traited for 8 seconds.

Edited by ZigKid3, 15 November 2012 - 09:25 AM.


#4 Featherman

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:36 AM

Are you sure it's 19?

If so maybe the thief canceled their first pistol whip and used the skill 2 more times in order to stack stuns. So it's PW>Cancel after first hit>PW>PW. They're likely to be able to land the full combo if they're under the effects of haste.

Edited by Featherman, 15 November 2012 - 09:39 AM.


#5 Desert Rose

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:05 AM

View PostZigKid3, on 15 November 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

according to the tool tips of pistol whip vs. blurred frenzy:

pistol whip: 9x (765) = 6885 + 1/2 stun, and 5 initiative so can be used twice or even 3 or 4 with roll for initiative and traits.
blurred frenzy: 8x (584) = 4672 + 2 sec distortion, 10 second CD but can be traited for 8 seconds.
It's the other way around: 765/9 = 85.

Regarding the 19 hits: It could be that you simply walked out of the range of Pistol Whip, or you had Aegis from someone around you.

Edited by Desert Rose, 15 November 2012 - 10:06 AM.


#6 Symbiont

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:15 AM

out-geared perhaps, after all it's in WvW. how much toughness did you say you got?

#7 Shinimas

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:35 AM

Stun Break and double-dodge for the Haste to wear off.

#8 stefanplc

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:42 AM

thief damage is a little high at the moment but you can get out of stuff like that with a stun breaker etc... if this occurred over 3-4 seconds you had plenty of time to react and if most of your utility skills are aimed towards damage then you can't really complain

#9 Featherman

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:43 PM

I like how it's people's instinct to defend or bash this rather than to help explain the mechanics. But yes stunbreakers help counter this although not as well as damage reduction or invulnerability due to three different applications of stuns.

#10 Korra

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

This thread is bad and you should feel bad about it.

brb opening a thread about warriors 1shoting me when they succesfully land 100b or Killshot hitting for 13k on LineAoE.

#11 turbo234

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:49 PM

Every time someone opens a thread about this, it's always answered the same way: stun breaker. You would think people would get the hint by now. Also thieves are all about positioning, don't give them the chance to set up an attack in the first place, they stealth to position themselves, you move away to prevent that from occuring.

#12 Featherman

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:54 PM

View PostKorra, on 15 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

This thread is bad and you should feel bad about it.

brb opening a thread about warriors 1shoting me when they succesfully land 100b or Killshot hitting for 13k on LineAoE.

Psh Frenzy Eviscerate is 3 times more practical. Don't tell ANet that though ;)

#13 Korra

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:56 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 15 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Psh Frenzy Eviscerate is 3 times more practical. Don't tell ANet that though ;)

okey ill keep ur sicret

#14 Invoky

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:57 PM

this thread is soo gooooood we should stick it so people dont ask same question every week

#15 IDarko

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:01 PM

Why 19 times? Because you didn't use a stunbreaker ;p

The damage is fine for PW btw. We pretty much spent most of our recources to use it. A mesmer still has 9 skills off cooldown.

#16 ZigKid3

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:58 PM

View PostFeatherman, on 15 November 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

Are you sure it's 19?

If so maybe the thief canceled their first pistol whip and used the skill 2 more times in order to stack stuns. So it's PW>Cancel after first hit>PW>PW. They're likely to be able to land the full combo if they're under the effects of haste.
Yes, it was exactly 19 hits of pistol whip, thats why i found it odd. I even recounted three times.

View PostDesert Rose, on 15 November 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

It's the other way around: 765/9 = 85.

Regarding the 19 hits: It could be that you simply walked out of the range of Pistol Whip, or you had Aegis from someone around you.
well however the tooltip is, it still did 15k damage alone to me ;w;

View PostSymbiont, on 15 November 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

out-geared perhaps, after all it's in WvW. how much toughness did you say you got?
Maybe, not sure how much of a difference though, and i was 2/3 traited down the toughness tree


-------------
Even if a stun breaker was used, they can just pistol whip the 2nd time.
why is it in thief forums, their damage is okay because it can be 'dodged'. that's like saying a 1shot ability is ok because it can be dodged, well anything can be dodged, so i guess gw2 balance has been balanced since day 1 with no need for changes because it can just be dodged right? ;w;

brb slotting moa morph for an I win button, but its okay cause it can be dodged.

Edited by ZigKid3, 15 November 2012 - 05:00 PM.


#17 Mursie

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:40 PM

I feel your pain man.  the following happened to me yesterday in wvw and I was rather irritated.

I went afk for about 5 mins... when I came back... i was dead.  WTF ANET!!!  I WENT AFK!!!

when people kill me... all i hear is "gg newb..learn to dodge".  seriously.. you can only dodge twice and your spent...ppl attack way more than 2 times.  And stuns... please, I'm terrible..how in the hell am I gonna stun break in the 3 seconds it takes to kill me.  It ain't gonna happen ANET!  I'm bad... I need like 10 seconds for proper reaction to identify where on my bar there is a freaking stunbreak.  By the time I move my mouse pointer over the ability to click it... thats about 15 seconds.  If the time to kill isn't AT LEAST 15 seconds... the game is BROKEN!!  way to go ANET.. way to go.

#18 Korra

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:42 PM

View PostMursie, on 15 November 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

I feel your pain man.  the following happened to me yesterday in wvw and I was rather irritated.

I went afk for about 5 mins... when I came back... i was dead.  WTF ANET!!!  I WENT AFK!!!

when people kill me... all i hear is "gg newb..learn to dodge".  seriously.. you can only dodge twice and your spent...ppl attack way more than 2 times.  And stuns... please, I'm terrible..how in the hell am I gonna stun break in the 3 seconds it takes to kill me.  It ain't gonna happen ANET!  I'm bad... I need like 10 seconds for proper reaction to identify where on my bar there is a freaking stunbreak.  By the time I move my mouse pointer over the ability to click it... thats about 15 seconds.  If the time to kill isn't AT LEAST 15 seconds... the game is BROKEN!!  way to go ANET.. way to go.

your post got a whole lot better when i understood it was a sarcasm.

#19 Rrafaz

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:22 PM

Wait, you guys are still complaining about PW?

19x times means how many times the ability hit you. A normal PW is 10 attacks, so 19 is just under 2 FULL PW's. Each sword strike counts as two attacks for some reason, but only does the damage of 1.

The only reason you could have stayed in that PW 2-3 times is if:

1. You lacked a stun breaker(s) and they hasted. For necros: See Death Shroud.
2. You stood there and took it.

Also, this is in WvW. Everything 1 shots you.

Edited by Rrafaz, 15 November 2012 - 07:24 PM.


#20 Elan

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:44 AM

View PostZigKid3, on 15 November 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Even if a stun breaker was used, they can just pistol whip the 2nd time.
why is it in thief forums, their damage is okay because it can be 'dodged'. that's like saying a 1shot ability is ok because it can be dodged, well anything can be dodged, so i guess gw2 balance has been balanced since day 1 with no need for changes because it can just be dodged right? ;w;

brb slotting moa morph for an I win button, but its okay cause it can be dodged.


For future reference, you just need to pop stunbreak and dodge once to avoid the second pistol whip stun.  Plus, it leaves the thief open for attack as sometimes the skill just plain refuses to cancel, so you (as the thief pistol whipping) just get stuck slashing the air asking to get hit. Of course, that isn't entirely avoidable that way, either.

If it helps you try to understand ways to avoid it, I'll explain my typical approach:

(Note, I'm lowballing the damage numbers here, as when I typed this I didn't actually realize you're a Mesmer, nor can I recall accurately the true damage values.  It is worth stating that I am not a true glass cannon, so numbers can very easily be a bit higher then what I actually experience, personally.)

Open with Devourer Venom which immobilizes the target into a pistol whip and steal so the stun hits when I arrive.  The steal opens with a solid 3kish hit and essentially supercharges all my other attacks by giving me might and fury.  The first chain of PW may hit for 6k on a tough target, possibly more on a lighter one.  Honestly I stopped paying attention to the numbers after the 15% nerf as I still hit hard enough.  You're basically going to eat this one as, even if you could stun break, you're also rooted.  If you managed to get a lucky dodge right when I tried to steal, I've basically completely blown my venom and may be out in the open, swinging in the air.  This would be your chance to retaliate.

God help you if you didn't dodge and quickness is proc'd because a second PW will come your way.  If not, you can absolutely expect either black powder, or, if you managed to back up, Infiltrator's strike which roots you again (if it doesn't bug out like it seems to half the time and fails to apply the damage OR the root at all), followed up by the auto attack chain and black powder.  At which point the focus shifts to keeping you blind, weakened, and crippled with constant pressure from these two skills, and interrupting any attempt to heal.  

If, however, you can survive the initial STEAL and INFILTRATOR STRIKE gap closers, and manage to avoid getting crippled, the ball is in your court.  It would force me to either attempt to switch to shortbow and plink at you, chase you long enough that I can use infiltrator's strike again without accidentally teleporting the wrong direction, or outright disengage.  

You can force my choice of action by retaliating in specific ways.  If you just run, I'll probably switch to the bow and peck your HP away.  If you manage to put a root/snare/knockdown on me, I'll either try to blind tank you or retreat - and I'll only attempt a blind tank at this phase if the target MUST fight me in melee range as the technique won't work if they can stay out of the blind field. I almost never attempt to chase someone so long my skills reset because the longer I'm chasing someone, the more likely it is you'll find friends.

Also, a well timed invis can play havok with me.  Especially between the first PW and a gap closer.

Edited by Elan, 16 November 2012 - 04:58 AM.


#21 Battou62

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:55 PM

What makes even less sense; dying to pistol whip / 100 blades while they are standing in black powder. Makes me rage every time.

#22 Lalnuir

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostBattou62, on 16 November 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

What makes even less sense; dying to pistol whip / 100 blades while they are standing in black powder. Makes me rage every time.

Blind only causes one attack to miss and black powder reapplies the blind once every second so any attack that hits more than once per second isn't completely screwed over when in black powder.

#23 Elan

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:39 PM

Exactly.  What blind field does do is essentially negate their auto attack and any initial strike from any other skill they have.  If it's a multihit rapid skill, it only stops the first hit.  What that means for 100b/pw blinding?  You don't get knocked down/stunned and have a chance to move out of the way.  For anything else, however, it's a fantastic way to shut down their damage output.  And, combined with the sword's skill 1 part 3 of the chain, you can make any of the attacks that do go through have a 50% chance to do 50% damage.  Which, frankly, is huge.  That's the real threat in Sword/Pistol.  It shuts down the offensive capabilities of a target pretty severely, giving the thief time to hack your life away with slow, but heavy, hits.

#24 SpelignErrir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:38 PM

Just saying guys, but stun breaks don't break immobilize. And PW thieves use devourer venom to immobilize.




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