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Forget about Ascended gear, Has Anet been honest about anything?


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#121 Specialz

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:19 PM

View PostFiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

EXACTLY. Arenanet a business, not YOUR friend. So stop defending them as if they were. You're the type of player than needs to understand what you just wrote.


Just because I don't agree with you DOESN'T mean I support them. I have a lot of issues, but most of them are things that will get better. Compared to any other game I have bought, guild wars 2 has more positives than negatives (class balance, armor looks, the fact that the combat will always be subpar to any action game, which is always while I have in the past said as an MMO guild wars 2 is a 9 as a game its a 7.75, I choose to ignore for now anyways since  MMO do change) and the negatives are things I decided to not cancel my pre-purchase because I deemed them insignificant, given the other positives. I have no real  attachment to the game and I will quit it the moment, it no longer suits me needs.

The reason it seems I m defending is not because I agree with them is because most of the arguments generated by people that think like you are usually full of hyperbole,  inability to understand the difference between facts and opinions when making arguments, ignorance and tinted glasses syndrome and more importantly unrealistic expectations ( which comes from the lack of critical thinking, since you should always judge the information you receive based on the source).

Edited by Specialz, 15 November 2012 - 06:24 PM.


#122 FiachSidhe

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

View PostChava Blue, on 15 November 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

You're just rewording what I said.

Willful.

I've seen no evidence that the differences between the initially released information and the current state of the game were willful deceptions rather than practical limitations or poor implementation or both.



No, malicious intent on the seller's part isn't based on the purchaser's attitude, it's based on the seller's own attitude. It would require the seller to have acted in bad faith, and again, I don't see any evidence that proves ANet was doing so, rather than one of the more innocent alternative explanations.

I'm not saying ANet hasn't failed to deliver on some of their promises. I'm just saying that accusing them of intention to harm the players isn't an evidence-based response.

Willfully holding back the knowledge that those things players were expecting, didn't pan out is a lie. Changing a fundamental gameplay function like one style of progression to a polar opposite one is a dick move.

View PostSpecialz, on 15 November 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Just because I don't agree with you DOESN'T mean I support them. I have a lot of issues, but most of them are things that will get better. Compared to any other game I have bought, guild wars 2 has more positives than negatives (class balance, armor looks, the fact that the combat will always be subpar to any action game, which is always while I have in the past said as an MMO guild wars 2 is a 9 as a game its a 7.75, I choose to ignore for now anyways since they only anyways since MMO do change) and the negatives are things I decided to not cancel my pre-purchase because I deemed them insignificant, given the other positives. I have no real  attachment to the game and I will quit it the moment, it no longer suits me needs.

The reason it seems I m defending is not because I agree with them is because most of the arguments generated by people that think like you are usually full of hyperbole,  inability to understand the difference between facts and opinions when making arguments, ignorance and tinted glasses syndrome and more importantly unrealistic expectations.

Of course you do, and people like you are full of hyperbole as well, only you choose to aim your hyperbole away from the company and into the faces of fellow consumers. You're an unpaid, unaccredited PR team!

Well done.

You may not intend support, but that's the result.

You think the positives outweigh the negatives? Good for you. I agree. However, a problem doesn't stop being a problem when it no longer affects you, or me.

Edited by FiachSidhe, 15 November 2012 - 06:27 PM.


#123 Manzana

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:26 PM

View PostFiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

Sure thing, marketing a game on horizontal progression, then doing the exact opposite...when are they doing it...oh yeah TOMORROW.

Oh by the way, wipe off your chin. I'm embarrassed for both of us.

We have yet to see the effects of being infused versus not being infused.  At the moment, the necessity for infusion seems to be limited to the dungeon where you get infused.  As for horizontal progression, I feel that they have kept to the philosophy rather well.  You are always scaled so that your stats are representative for the area in which you are in.  Playing any current dungeon in the game does not have a gear requirement.  The new dungeon has a requirement that is unknown in scope, so it's too early to judge one way or the other.

I don't have the time to go through and look for all of the posts that the OP did point out, but just off the top of my head: the change in dye system was made before the game was released.  You still had a chance to step away if you wanted to. The change in the way dungeon gear was acquired was made far before release, you could have canceled your prepurchase or just not have bought the game at all.  Guesting isn't available because server changes are still free.  It's a bummer, yes, and I hope that they get that changed real soon, but until then, at least they had the common decency to not charge us for changing servers.  As for the lack of holy trinity, I doubt anyone could truly have thought to utterly and completely remove the trinity.  They merely switched from hard-trinity to a soft-trinity that was divided amongst players.  

So yes, I admit there are many faults in the game.  I admit that the game wasn't as polished on release as I thought it was going to be.  But to say that everything is wrong, to call others out for believing an opposite view, to only present one side and state that as the ultimate fact, that is uncalled for and unproductive.  

I made a long reply previously in this thread, but I'll sum it up again.  Anet intended to do some grandiose things.  The community overhyped itself and saw intentions as "promises".  Now, as before, the community is jumping to conclusions, just in the opposite way.  Instead of, "erhmahgerd gw2 is gon be the most awesomest thing ever!" it is "Anet is destroying their game!"  The proper way to have approached both things would have been to sit and wait before freaking out.  Remember that most of Anet's marketing was word of mouth, so the community should be held responsible if anything.

#124 bcbully1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:27 PM

View PostChava Blue, on 15 November 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

No, lying involves malicious intent.

I've seen this a few times over the last few days. It makes sense. It's 1/2 the definition according to webster's though.


1.
a : an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive
b : an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker


2

: something that misleads or deceives


Edited by bcbully1, 15 November 2012 - 06:27 PM.


#125 Manzana

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

View PostJONO51, on 15 November 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

This right here is the BEST post in Tyrian Assembly. A lot of people need to sit down, shut up, read this post and think before they type.

That post goes both ways.  I'm more than willing to sit down and think.  Yes, I agree that the infusion is questionable.  No, I don't think it was necessary to improve the stats on Ascended items.  I am willing to hold my tongue until something, IE the patch itself, to make judgments.  But, those that complain need also to heed this advice.  Don't just say, "THEY LIED TO ME" and point at comments made early in development.  What about the comments Anet made revising their stance, and their explanations for doing so?  Don't just say, "ANET IS RUINING THE GAME" without first playing the content to objectively point out why the game was ruined.  When the patch does come out tomorrow, and it turns out Anet utterly and completely destroyed the game as it was meant to be, hey, I'll be here complaining to.  Until then, I'll reserve my judgment and say that the game Anet has released has provided me with hours of entertainment, and I'll be playing for the foreseeable future.

#126 Specialz

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

View PostFiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Of course you do, and people like you are full of hyperbole as well, only you choose to aim your hyperbole away from the company and into the faces of fellow consumers. You're an unpaid, unaccredited PR team!

Well done.

You may not intend support, but that's the result.

I am not really here to justify my actions, if you think I am bias that's fine and you are right. I am usually bias against: people who are were too dumb to realized that a company will always market their product in the best possible light. i am also bias against people with unrealistic expectation, people that are so disillusioned over a video game, people that have video game version of Histrionic personality disorder that keep talking about how they are quitting in other to drum up sympathy, added people that totally ignore all the road signs that gw2 might not be the game for them and still decided to play and are mad about it, so I guess you are right.

Edited by Specialz, 15 November 2012 - 06:35 PM.


#127 FiachSidhe

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:35 PM

View PostGremlin, on 15 November 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:


If I was a moderator on an official forum I would probably delete posts that just stated a complaint or didnt actually contribute anything.

Complaints should be taken up one on one with the company.
If you don't like something in the game they need to learn to phrase the "complaint" as a question or a suggestion.

..and as a moderator with such pride and professionalism, as I'm sure you would be, I assume you would do the same for every single thread not designed to produce an algonquin round table discussion over virtual make believe swordplay. Like all the praise threads. If you say yes to this, congratulations, you are already a better mod than the Anet crew.

Also, who decides what constitutes a "complaint", and what negative feedback from your CUSTOMERS? Or criticism? Because I've seen the most well thought out, polite, constructive, and helpful posts deleted for being "complaints". When did our rights as consumers disappear? Do they have the right to censor negative feedback? Absolutely? Is it bad form? You better believe it.

Anet doesn't care about good conversation. They run PR damage control.

#128 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostManzana, on 15 November 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

That post goes both ways.  I'm more than willing to sit down and think.  Yes, I agree that the infusion is questionable.  No, I don't think it was necessary to improve the stats on Ascended items.  I am willing to hold my tongue until something, IE the patch itself, to make judgments.  But, those that complain need also to heed this advice.  Don't just say, "THEY LIED TO ME" and point at comments made early in development.  What about the comments Anet made revising their stance, and their explanations for doing so?  Don't just say, "ANET IS RUINING THE GAME" without first playing the content to objectively point out why the game was ruined.  When the patch does come out tomorrow, and it turns out Anet utterly and completely destroyed the game as it was meant to be, hey, I'll be here complaining to.  Until then, I'll reserve my judgment and say that the game Anet has released has provided me with hours of entertainment, and I'll be playing for the foreseeable future.

For one thing, you're only addressing one small portion of this topic, the ascended stuff.  Technically it's off topic since this about about lies before ascended ;)  But to humor you, I agree with Feathermoore here:

View PostFeathermoore, on 14 November 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

The most efficient and effective way to deal with a problem is to stop it from happening all together. If you wait till AFTER a feature has been implemented, it is much harder to get devs to revoke that feature as they will upset people who liked the feature and will have wasted development dollars creating the feature.

Waiting until a feature is incoming/after it has been implemented is the worst time to declare your dislike of the feature. People are voicing concerns, and they are voicing them at the correct time. A similar situation occurred in EVE that resulted in massive upheaval in the playerbase purely out of concern for what the new feature would mean for potential development in the future. CCP got the message and development has refocused towards the features that players cared about.

People are worried that there is a potential for the "worst case" scenario to occur. You can call anyone who brings that worry up doomsayers all you want. That doesn't change the fact that they are actually getting their desire as a customer out there and potentially preventing that worst case (as was done in EVE).

I think we have more than enough information than, we usually have access to before an implementation here (a news flash, 2 giant blog posts, screenshots, hard facts that they have more stats, hard facts that they will continue progression of some sort, they even said this kind of thing is "nromally for an expansion" making it amost positive we have a new tier at the very least every 6 onths, etc etc), to make a judgement call here, and complaints should be made.

Fact of the matter is they baltantly said without any question that people who actually work for a living would be able to stay at the top of the gear level and the rest of the grind was cosmetic.  That is without any reasonable argument false now.  You can make some arguments as to whether they lied about a gear treamdill or not, but the lie that people who actually have to work for a living are now going to be constantly behind is unquestionable.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 15 November 2012 - 06:44 PM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#129 FiachSidhe

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:45 PM

View PostSpecialz, on 15 November 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

I am not really here to justify my actions, if you think I am bias that's fine and you are right. I am usually bias against: people who are were too dumb to realized that a company will always market their product in the best possible light. i am also bias against people with unrealistic expectation, people that are so disillusioned over a video game, people that have video game version of Histrionic personality disorder that keep talking about how they are quitting in other to drum up sympathy, added people that totally ignore all the road signs that gw2 might not be the game for them and still decided to play and are mad about it, so I guess you are right.

and what personality disorders do you lay claim to, for the almost pathological desire to confront and combat them with hyperbolic statements of histrionics and personality disorders? Weren't you the one who hated hyperbole?
You're resorted to simple hindsight bias*.

You're not here to justify your opinions, and yet, you just spent this entire post doing exactly that. While spilling your own hyperbole all over my admittedly already stained shirt.

Your problem is, is that you can't be happy with your game, without letting everyone around you know how happy you are with it, and how wrong the rest of us are if we disagree. You post of your supposed intolerance of "histrionics and hyperbole", while peppering your posts with such. then pretend you're above it all, while wading deeper than those you mock.

You have proven me incontrovertibly correct about you. It isn't enough to enjoy the game you like, you are obsessed with mocking those who are not.

And of the two arguments here, I'd be far more worried about complaints coming from people who angry over complaints, then those who are complaining because a game they actually paid for, and liked, is being changed to the opposite of what brought them to it.

You can talk of personality disorder-eque behavior, but people are complaining about a product and service they pay for.

YOU are complaining about easily avoided forum posts.

*
http://en.wikipedia..../Hindsight_bias

Edited by FiachSidhe, 15 November 2012 - 06:53 PM.


#130 RedStar

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:49 PM

View PostRabidusIncendia, on 15 November 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

I get what you're trying to say, but this is what the analogy for letting you understand my point of view.  Pretend Anet released this patcha and ascended took a million hours to grind and all future content would have silimar grind.  You wouldn't play it would you?

Wll people have different tolerances for grind, mine is pretty low.  The only MMO I got interested in for long besides this was GW1.  Your grind tolerance might be high enough for you to want to play, but mine is so low I don't even want to consider it.  This is way and beyond the kind of grind GW1 had, a grind level I quite reasonably would have thought would be in around the ballpark of GW2's grind.

In seven years I played 4k hours in GW1 and did every possible thing (except create a dervish). So yeah, a million hours is something I wouldn't even consider :P
But honestly, I don't know. I'm incredibly patient for things, and incredibly impatient for others...For example, I know that one day, I'll probably get a legendary item, just like I eventually got GWAMM.

What bothers me is being stuck and not being able to enjoy a content I'm sure I'll enjoy. And really right now, the Lost Shore isn't something I really want to do and the ascended armor isn't something that prevents me from reaching my semi-long term goal (getting the once beautiful light Arah set that Anet utterly ruined, but that I still want to get to dye it perfectly and see how ruined it really is).

View PostManzana, on 15 November 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Had a spelling mistake. I meant that bar brawl wasn't keg brawl. And they should make keg brawl more...fun. It's fun at first, but it could be better.
And there's also all the town clothes that we were supposed to be able to get and that we aren't finding any way of obtaining them. I thought that mini games would have awarded those town clothes, that's why I want mini games.
And let's not forget those armor sets that we can't find (Countess Anise's) and those that can only be found in PvP or PvE when we were told that every set could be obtained in PvP and PvE.
It's nitpicking, but this is a game that awards its players with cosmetics.


View PostFiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

How about home instances, the grinding, the fact that dynamic events are hardly dynamic, that lower level areas aren't scaled properly, that the personal story only lasts until 20 and turns to shit.

At first it was scaled properly but some players whined that it was too hard. So Anet changed it.
Now players are still whining that it's too hard, and others are whining that it's too easy. Anet cannot please everyone.

And the PS is a point of view...if Anet could write a PS more than 90 of its players would love, they might as well stop doing games and write books, they would make a huge amount of money.

Edited by RedStar, 15 November 2012 - 06:51 PM.


#131 Chava Blue

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

View Postbcbully1, on 15 November 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

I've seen this a few times over the last few days. It makes sense. It's 1/2 the definition according to webster's though.


1.
a : an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive
b : an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker


2


: something that misleads or deceives



No, it's not leaving that part out. Misleading and deception are active behaviors; it's different than being wrong or changing your mind or something not working when you try it.

That's the whole point. Lying is based on intent. It's not about playing semantic games over the shades of nuance between the word "malicious" and the word "deceptive." A statement that is different from what comes to pass is not necessarily a lie.

Accusing ANet of lying is accusing them of wrongdoing. Without any proof of wrongdoing, I think it's an unfair attack on their character. (While criticizing their actions and decisions is - obviously - perfectly justified.)

Edited by Chava Blue, 15 November 2012 - 06:53 PM.


#132 Manzana

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostRabidusIncendia, on 15 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Snip!

No, I agree, it is good to be proactive.  But, looking over at the Ascended Item threads, the additional stats isn't what's truly pissing people off.  Stats, while nice, are not utterly integral to this game.  The argument made is that the infusion is what's important.  Yup, it is, but until we see how infusion plays into the game as a whole, judgement should be reserved.  You can't preemptively change something when you don't know how it works.

As for the rest of the thread, yes, the OP brought up posts about what Anet initally told us, what Anet initially believed their game could do.  But, when the realized that their exceedingly lofty goals were unattainable, or just merely not beneficial to them as a company, they said it to be so.  Most aspects of the game we have today were given to us before the game release.  No, there will be no account-bound dyes.  No, you can't get the item you need on the first dungeon run, you will get tokens instead.  No, there are no companions.  Yes, some of these things were only told us close to game release, but they were said none-the-less.  Customers still had a chance to end their order.  Aside from this "infusion", nothing was just dropped on us out of the blue.  That is the point I make.

#133 Specialz

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:53 PM

View PostFiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

You can talk of personality disorder-eque behavior, but people are talking about a product and service they pay for.

YOU are uncomplaining about easily avoided forum posts.

I think you meant to say I am complaining about easily avoided forum post. Well, though!!! unfortunately, most of the discussion about guild wars 2 issues are generally dominated around post like those, while all the good post get ignored (ironically in some ways I am part of the problem). Out of maybe 1 good constructive post, you probably get a million hyperbole filled rants, and the usual if you don't agree with prevalent mob you are a fanboy (still not sure why that is supposedly an insult though).

Edited by Specialz, 15 November 2012 - 06:55 PM.


#134 FiachSidhe

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

View PostSpecialz, on 15 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

I think you meant to say I am complaining about easily avoided forum post. Well, though!!! unfortunately, most of the discussion about guild wars 2 issues are generally dominated around post like those, while all the good post get ignored (ironically in some ways I am part of the problem). Out of maybe 1 good constructive post, you probably get a million hyperbole filled rants, and the usual if you don't agree with prevalent mob you are a fanboy.

So in other words, you're blaming everyone else. You're blaming the forum population for a problem you willfully perpetuate, by bumping every complaint thread to the front page, while neglecting those threads you deem worthy. All the while excusing yourself from blame because you do it for the betterment of the forum.

Here's a thought, try ignoring conversations you want no part in. Start, or participate in discussions, you feel are important. You notice how empty many rant threads would be, if you removed the self righteous fanboys showing up to defend their beloved game, and tell the big bad hater to * off? The irony is staggering. These threads dominate front pages, because people like you can't stop attacking them! Then you pretend you aren't  part of the problem. In fact the majority of posts here are supportive.

You can't see them, because you're in the complaint threads talking about how the complaint threads are being talked about too much, while talking about them, in them.

and you talk of personality disorder-like behavior...

and no, simple disagreement does not a fanboy make. Defending a company, and deriding their opponents regardless of subject, however, does.

Edited by Leyana, 15 November 2012 - 11:31 PM.
No


#135 bcbully1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:10 PM

View PostChava Blue, on 15 November 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

No, it's not leaving that part out. Misleading and deception are active behaviors; it's different than being wrong or changing your mind or something not working when you try it.

That's the whole point. Lying is based on intent. It's not about playing semantic games over the shades of nuance between the word "malicious" and the word "deceptive." A statement that is different from what comes to pass is not necessarily a lie.

Accusing ANet of lying is accusing them of wrongdoing. Without any proof of wrongdoing, I think it's an unfair attack on their character. (While criticizing their actions and decisions is - obviously - perfectly justified.)
You missed 1-b.

1.a : an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive
b : an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker

Edited by bcbully1, 15 November 2012 - 07:10 PM.


#136 astromarmot

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:12 PM

View PostSpecialz, on 15 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

I think you meant to say I am complaining about easily avoided forum post. Well, though!!! unfortunately, most of the discussion about guild wars 2 issues are generally dominated around post like those, while all the good post get ignored (ironically in some ways I am part of the problem). Out of maybe 1 good constructive post, you probably get a million hyperbole filled rants, and the usual if you don't agree with prevalent mob you are a fanboy (still not sure why that is supposedly an insult though).

It's meant as an insult because it implies a credibility pigeonhole...ie you're drinking the ideological Flavor-Aid

#137 karekiz

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:20 PM

View Postbcbully1, on 15 November 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

• Inflation on gem prices is ridiculous. On release date you could buy 100 gems for around 25 silver. Right now you’ll need closer to 90 silver for those same 100 gems. And still very few people actually consider it worthwhile to pay real money for gems to transfer them to gold.

And you used to be able to buy a coke for a quarter.

Gem prices rise because overall gold has risen. It is expected and /shock it will continue to rise as expansions release unless they perform a strict economic turn and put even *more* gold sinks in.  Everyone wants more of those right?

I do agree that I don't see much point in buying gems -> gold, as Gold -> Gems isn't that bad.  Bag space is #1 purchase across most accounts and that is 400.  Which is around 4 goldish and thats still relatively cheap for 80's farming Orr or 80's farming AC (which can yield roughly close to 1 gold in silver alone per path not including drops).

#138 FiachSidhe

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:23 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 15 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Nah, you just need more years on your back so you'll realize how ridiculous those paesant conspiracy talks are.

The only talks of conspiracy theories are coming out of your mouth, or brain, anyway. Tell it to stop. It's making an ass out of you and you.
Your brain that is, though I'm sure your mouth would do well to follow suit. Whatever is currently fueling your desire to spout "peasant conspiracy" as if you just learned it, and now is the only chance you'll get to cram it into a conversation

#139 Draugadan

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:30 PM

View PostFiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

The only talks of conspiracy theories are coming out of your mouth, or brain, anyway. Tell it to stop. It's making an ass out of you and you.
Your brain that is, though I'm sure your mouth would do well to follow suit. Whatever is currently fueling your desire to spout "peasant conspiracy" as if you just learned it, and now is the only chance you'll get to cram it into a conversation

What's the point in arguing with these people? To them, acknowledging the fact that the companies are in it for the money makes you  a conspirationist, while the mere thought that it is we, customers, who deem what is acceptable in the search for profit, is considered heresy.

#140 davadude

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

View PostDraugadan, on 15 November 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Typical fanboy reply. The game didn't even come close to delivering what it promised, yet you have the nerve to tell people who talk about it to just leave the game.

Yes, this isn't the game for us. This is also not the game that ArenaNet promised to create these past years. That was the game for us.  This is a game for people with more money than time, hence the grinding meant to encourage gem purchases. This isn't the game we were promised because NcSoft thought they could capitalize on the hype.

If you're fine with that, good for you. But don't tell others to simply quit the game, if they're not.

Typical hater response.  See?  It can be thrown right back at you.

The game features exactly what was promised.  DE, no cash shop with advantages (if you need boosts, god help your soul), personalized storyline where choice do effect your outcome, etc.  If they are not as good as you had hoped, then it is your personal fault for hyping it up to be more than what was claimed.  

Finally, a unproven assumption.  NCsoft was very, very gracious with Arenanet.  The NC CEO is even quoted with saying "Arenanet need time, we have money.  The next investor report will hopefully contain more information upon the status of the game" at two investor reports.  If they wanted money, they'd be in the FPS/console market, not RTS/MMO market.
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#141 Valkaire

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:37 PM

Yes, anet didn't and couldn't implement a lot of what they said/ wanted on release but that's normal. I'm willing to wait a few years for them to get things sorted through like the other MMOs I've played (GW, WoW). Rome wasn't built in a day and while it does suck that there's still quite a bit missing from the game, it does seem like they're trying their hardest to please as many of their players as possible without ruining the game for the other side. The big points to me are mostly horizontal progression, a beautiful world, not being unable to do content because of low gear and no subscription fee. That's all been delivered and thus, I'm perfectly happy.

I'll just leave this here (from someone who actually experienced the Lost Shores update already).

View Postelixabeth, on 15 November 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

Agony did not come into our run-through, although I only ever saw level 1 difficulty. From my conversations with developers during testing, it looks like they expect people to get to level 5 difficulty before Agony really presents a problem. While the difficulty levels being discussed might not have been absolute, the point is that Agony isn't going to put the smack down on players right away, and really skilled players will be able to progress further without as much Agony resistance as unskilled players.

Edited by Valkaire, 15 November 2012 - 07:38 PM.


#142 raspberry jam

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostLady Rhonwyn, on 15 November 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Legendaries have exactly the same stat as the exotics (exotics being the highest tired gear right now).  They're simply a skin that looks great (to some) and is something to work against.
Not after the coming patch.

lol ANet defense brigade

#143 Al Shamari

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 15 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Not after the coming patch.

lol ANet defense brigade
Could you please provide a link to anything that says that the coming patch is going to introduce changes to Legendaries that are going to change their stats?

#144 RedStar

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:53 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 15 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Not after the coming patch.

lol ANet defense brigade

All your honestly shocked by this ? I mean, you crafted the best weapon in the game and suddenly it's not the best ? There's something else above it ? It's kind of normal that Anet keep Legendaries on the same level as the best gear available.
The point is that Legendaries is never above the best tier.

What made me think is that Anet said that only rings will be introduced for now, but legendaries will be updated. Does this mean that they lied and that weapons will also be introduced in the update, or those this mean that Anet will update legendaries when the equivalent gear is introduced ?
Or of course, the case where Anet doesn't introduce ascended weapons for now, but do update legendaries.

#145 Draugadan

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

View Postdavadude, on 15 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Typical hater response.  See?  It can be thrown right back at you.

Except I'm not a hater. I'm simply disappointed with what the game turned out to be and realize it would require a minimal amount of effort on their behalf to turn it into what it was marketed as.

View Postdavadude, on 15 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

The game features exactly what was promised.

Such as gold grinding, a grind for dungeon armors, a grind for stats... oh wait...

View Postdavadude, on 15 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

DE

A pity that 90% of them aren't even being attended anymore, isn't it?

View Postdavadude, on 15 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

no cash shop with advantages (if you need boosts, god help your soul)

To believe that the cash shop had no effect on game design is naive at best. The very fact that the economy is screwed to the point where selling the materials is more profitable than crafting an item and selling it and ArenaNet isn't doing anything about it proves it. Poor players means more gem sales.

View Postdavadude, on 15 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

personalized storyline where choice do effect your outcome, etc.

*rolls on the floor laughing*. Oh wait, it wasn't a joke? Surely it was a mistake. You probably were referring to Trahearne Sue's story, where your decisions don't matter at all.

View Postdavadude, on 15 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

If they are not as good as you had hoped, then it is your personal fault for hyping it up to be more than what was claimed.  

If the car you bought can't hit 200 km/h, it's your fault for trusting the producer who explicitly stated that it could.

View Postdavadude, on 15 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Finally, a unproven assumption.  NCsoft was very, very gracious with Arenanet.  The NC CEO is even quoted with saying "Arenanet need time, we have money.  The next investor report will hopefully contain more information upon the status of the game" at two investor reports.  If they wanted money, they'd be in the FPS/console market, not RTS/MMO market.

So you're implying that NcSoft is developing MMOs out of the kindness of their hearts? Really? I guess that it is also out of the kindness of their hearts that they are shutting City of Heroes down and making Aion pay-to-win, right? Honestly, after this last paragraph I can't help but wonder if you're trolling. Nobody who has had dealings with NcSoft (or even heard about them) could possibly claim they're a "good" company.

Edited by Draugadan, 15 November 2012 - 07:59 PM.


#146 Zedabi

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 15 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Not after the coming patch.

lol ANet defense brigade

Pretty sure they won't be boosting the Legendary weapons until they introduce Ascended weapons.

"all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game."

#147 raspberry jam

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostSpecialz, on 15 November 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

I am not really here to justify my actions, if you think I am bias that's fine and you are right. I am usually bias against: people who are were too dumb to realized that a company will always market their product in the best possible light. i am also bias against people with unrealistic expectation, people that are so disillusioned over a video game, people that have video game version of Histrionic personality disorder that keep talking about how they are quitting in other to drum up sympathy, added people that totally ignore all the road signs that gw2 might not be the game for them and still decided to play and are mad about it, so I guess you are right.
Hahahahaha this post takes the cake. Definitely.

In any other industry it works like this. You buy a product where the maker has explicitly stated quality X. Like you can put diesel but not gasoline into this engine. And then you fill up with diesel and the engine breaks down. And then you sue that company for loads of millions because their product didn't fulfil the specifications. And everyone, even the company that you sued, agrees with you.

But in video games it works like this: You buy a product where the maker has explicitly stated quality X. Like no gear grind or account bound dyes or whatever. And then dyes are account bound and you need to grind for gear. And then you don't even sue the company, you just post a complaint on a discussion board. And then you get accused of being mentally ill.

View PostAl Shamari, on 15 November 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Could you please provide a link to anything that says that the coming patch is going to introduce changes to Legendaries that are going to change their stats?
No, sorry. All I know is that legendaries will be bumped to be equal to ascendeds. That probably won't happen in this patch, but it will happen in a coming patch.

Of course, we can always hope for that the ascended weapons will have the same stats as an unmodded exotic, and have a slot (apart from the infusion slot). But how likely is that really?

#148 Aventurian

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

View Postdavadude, on 15 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

If they wanted money, they'd be in the FPS/console market, not RTS/MMO market.

Last time I checked, the GW2 retail/DDL was amounting to USD 50. And the CE will set you off a cool USD 120 to 150.

So how again are they not in it for the money?

#149 Gremlin

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:12 PM

View PostFiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

..and as a moderator with such pride and professionalism, as I'm sure you would be, I assume you would do the same for every single thread not designed to produce an algonquin round table discussion over virtual make believe swordplay. Like all the praise threads. If you say yes to this, congratulations, you are already a better mod than the Anet crew.

Also, who decides what constitutes a "complaint", and what negative feedback from your CUSTOMERS? Or criticism? Because I've seen the most well thought out, polite, constructive, and helpful posts deleted for being "complaints". When did our rights as consumers disappear? Do they have the right to censor negative feedback? Absolutely? Is it bad form? You better believe it.

Anet doesn't care about good conversation. They run PR damage control.

Fair enough I haven't read every post so I take your word this is so.
I was talking in general terms that players with an axe to grind want to bring it to the forum and tell all of us about it.
And of course we have to take their word that they are not biased mistaken or just downright lying.

If you allow direct complaints often without any evidence other than their word on it then it does the company no good.
If the company commented on every such post they are in a no win situation.

Forums are for discussion its pretty hard to discuss posts such as I was banned hacked bought something and didnt get it etc.
Or finding "official" comments from past web posts about what would or would not gbe included in the game.
Customer services deal with those that and if you don't get satisfaction then you complain about the company to a third party that deals with these things.

#150 RedStar

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:15 PM

View PostDraugadan, on 15 November 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

snip
(The post is a little above mine, I don't see the need to multi quote it).

DE
Here's how the playerbase functions : someone find the best way to get gold, everyone goes there. They could have included 10 000 versions of Cursed Shore, with only a slight variation, someone would have studied each one of them to see which one was more profitable, publish his findings and most of the playerbase would stop going to the 9 999 other zones.
Players, unfortunately, only find something fun for so long. Then they think "Fun is giving me enough money, I want money !".  Look at all the complaints on downscaling...the main one is that you get better rewards from doing Cursed Shore...
There are some exceptions, but that's why the most fun events don't gather a lot of players if the reward isn't that great.

Cash Shop
GW1 economy was great, right ? I don't know if it was great or not, but after seeing thousands of posts complaining how horrible the economy was in GW1, I guess that allowing everyone to make easy money isn't a good idea.

PS
Yeah it's strange how the choices you made don't have any consequences (I let the hospital burn, yet they rebuilt it...) but what did you really expect ? This is a MMO.
The Personal Instance isn't done. When they say it's done, come back and complain about that. By complaining about something they admitted they didn't finish is pointless.
And depending on your choices you have different quests and learn different things.
And if you were the one thinking that depending on your order, the end of Zhaitan wouldn't be the same (kill it, imprison it, befriend it...)...it wouldn't make any sense lore wise.

Anet has a problem with half assing everything, thinking that it will please everyone. What it does at best is semi-please everyone, and at worse, totally angers one group while another group is happy. And then they feel sorry for the first group and try to please them and then it angers the other one...

Edited by RedStar, 15 November 2012 - 08:18 PM.





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