553 replies to this topic

[RedStar]

FiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Complaining about it not being done is pointless, because it wasn't finished, and I should come back and complain about it, not being done, when they are finished.

This logic cycled in on itself so many times, if I knocked it over, it could walk down a flight of stairs like a slinky.

Once it's implemented, feel free to judge it. I won't come around and say "it's not finished ! This is a MMO it will get better !".
But right now, they made the choice to not include it because it wasn't ready to be implemented.

It's coming one day, so wait for it to complain about it.

If you want, you can complain on mini games. Not only did they said that they will be in the game upon release, but it took a month for them to say that finally they didn't include them (except one or two) and to make matters worse, they aren't really working on including them anytime soon.
But then again it would be kind of stupid for most players to complain about this since most people aren't even aware of this...

To sum up : Home instance upgrades are coming soon, so it's better to wait until we see the changes to complain about them. On the other hand, mini games are probably something that will come in 10 years ; since we won't have any new information, there's no point in waiting to complain about them.
(Yeah my logic might be weird, and they way I wrote this might be even more weird).

Larsen, on 15 November 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Or could it be that quite a lot of people have begun to see the elephant in the room? Are you familiar with The Emperor's New Clothes?

Not really. This is a forum. The people that frequent it change every day/week/month. Sometime it's full of praise (been a while) and others full of complaints. But it doesn't really mean anything. All it means is that certain person feel more inclined to come post on guru on a certain day for different reasons.

[FiachSidhe]

RedStar, on 15 November 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

Once it's implemented, feel free to judge it. I won't come around and say "it's not finished ! This is a MMO it will get better !".
But right now, they made the choice to not include it because it wasn't ready to be implemented.

It's coming one day, so wait for it to complain about it.

If you want, you can complain on mini games. Not only did they said that they will be in the game upon release, but it took a month for them to say that finally they didn't include them (except one or two) and to make matters worse, they aren't really working on including them anytime soon.
But then again it would be kind of stupid for most players to complain about this since most people aren't even aware of this...

To sum up : Home instance upgrades are coming soon, so it's better to wait until we see the changes to complain about them. On the other hand, mini games are probably something that will come in 10 years ; since we won't have any new information, there's no point in waiting to complain about them.
(Yeah my logic might be weird, and they way I wrote this might be even more weird).


Not really. This is a forum. The people that frequent it change every day/week/month. Sometime it's full of praise (been a while) and others full of complaints. But it doesn't really mean anything. All it means is that certain person feel more inclined to come post on guru on a certain day for different reasons.

But the complaint...is that it isn't finished. You can't complain that it isn't finished, when its finished  There would be no reason to complain. Whether or not it's any good, is a completely different complaint. The problem is they hyped it, and it wasn't finished at launch. In fact, it doesn't do anything at all.

[RedStar]

FiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

But the complaint...is that it isn't finished. You can't complain that it isn't finished, when its finished  There would be no reason to complain. Whether or not it's any good, is a completely different complaint. The problem is they hyped it, and it wasn't finished at launch. In fact, it doesn't do anything at all.

Oh, some things were lost along the way of this arguments xD.
I thought the complaints was that the Home Instance was bad, to which I say that it's normal for it to be bad since it's not finished.

[Snipes]

Dokem, on 15 November 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I only care that I have fun playing this game. The rest is drama.

/sign
Anet can do whatever they want. They can run the game into the ground or make it a big success, its their game.

[Midnight_Tea]

FiachSidhe, on 15 November 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Good question.

Well I'd get rid of any notion of adding vertical progression. Not that I have a problem with it, but after GW2 sold with horizontal progression as a selling point, I'd be loathe to begin the power creep this early.

Second, I would focus less on dungeons/farming as a sole form of inexhaustible content. I'd begin work on other activities.. Housing, minigames. Maybe do something with the carnival. Races, gambling houses, carnival minigames, science/magic experiments, group crafting projects like reparing towns, interactive theaters with plays, investigative quests ala The Secret World.

You know, I often think much the same. Why do MMOs have to always be about bludgeoning bad guys with increasingly larger bladed sticks? GW2 has a chance to be unique and different by opening more sandbox-y activities. Really, anybody has a chance to be. This is a niche pretty much dying to be filled. The runaway success of Minecraft and similar games is proof enough that we're overdue for more creative outlets.

Also, yes, It is too early for power creep.

[Aventurian]

Snipes, on 15 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

/sign
Anet can do whatever they want. They can run the game into the ground or make it a big success, its their game.

You forgot the part where players paid actual money for all of this.

It's quite ironic that every once in a while, a forum user would moan about some alleged "entitlement mentality" in other users, yet at the same time ArenaNet indeed gives the impression that, by just being an awesome company, they were entitled to your money, no questions asked.

[Aventurian]

Midnight_Tea, on 15 November 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

You know, I often think much the same. Why do MMOs have to always be about bludgeoning bad guys with increasingly larger bladed sticks? GW2 has a chance to be unique and different by opening more sandbox-y activities. Really, anybody has a chance to be. This is a niche pretty much dying to be filled. The runaway success of Minecraft and similar games is proof enough that we're overdue for more creative outlets.

But they don't know how to build Minecraft. They know how to build Guild Wars X.

The same can be observed in most creative endeavors. Microsoft understands OS and dev tools, they don't understand the internet. Tom Cruise understands action, but has anyone ever said that Cruise has great humor? Disney understands kids, but do they understand the Dark Side of the Force?

You get the point.

Edited by Aventurian, 15 November 2012 - 11:58 PM.

[FiachSidhe]

Aventurian, on 15 November 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

But they don't know how to build Minecraft. They know how to build Guild Wars X.

The same can be observed in most creative endeavors. Microsoft understands OS and dev tools, they don't understand the internet. Tom Cruise understands action, but has anyone ever said that Cruise has great humor? Disney understands kids, but do they understand the Dark Side of the Force?

You get the point.

The point isn't to turn GW2 into Minecraft. Minecraft only proves that entire games can exist on the notion of building and creativity and that Anet can probably safely create content that allows players an outlet for that creativity. An activity outside of killing.

My favorite part of The Secret World, is their use of investigative quests, using things like real life poems, company created and run websites for the fictional entities in game used for quests.

I had to look up a model number of a radio tower I needed to repair in game, on a real website created by Funcom for the fictitious company using TSW's in game web browser, to find the listed tools recommended for field repair, then collect them.
I had to look up an obsessed horror author fan's website, and use his blog entries to figure out the keypad lock combination to his "mancave basement" to access his PC.
Another had me following visual clues around a town ranging from paintings, to Illuminati symbols on sewer caps. Hell, one quest had me die, then corpse run in the spirit world to a locked jail cell. Enter as a spirit, to read the ghostly writing of a dead murderer.
One quest's major clue was Morse code being tapped out, in the blinking of an abandoned van's headlights, caused by a ghost.

Stuff like this is a great alternative to the constant fighting.

Edited by FiachSidhe, 16 November 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[Midnight_Tea]

I think I'm having a bit of moderator whiplash. I've gone from loudly arguing with FiachSidhe to wishing I could force ArenaNet to listen to them.

I need to sit down before I wind up any more confused. Suffice to say, I wholeheartedly agree. It's exactly the game I wish I was playing on release once I learned of stuff like personal instances and town clothes and such.

[Dasryn]

Aventurian, on 15 November 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

You forgot the part where players paid actual money for all of this.

It's quite ironic that every once in a while, a forum user would moan about some alleged "entitlement mentality" in other users, yet at the same time ArenaNet indeed gives the impression that, by just being an awesome company, they were entitled to your money, no questions asked.

i think you are a bit mistakened. you paid for a box with a key in it that gives you access to their game.

[Jump_N_Move]

I just wish they had never said they will release it when it's done. Coming from Anet i wanted to believe them, and that's my fault. But the state of the game in those 3 BWE, was no where near a finished game product. Beta, sure. They were great betas. They got alot of changes made and the game improved overall. But they were so obviously rushed it was painful to watch/play through. I mean honestly half of this game is still missing. Guilds and PvP effectively do not exist. Guild Halls/GvG was THE main staple of Guild Wars. They should of held out for a solid month or two before launching this game. I would have rather had another BWE and a month extra wait than this slow-release-to-appease-everyone-update garbage. Really, in my mind I just tell my self its still in Beta and play it like any other Korean MMO that never gets out of beta.

[Lafiele]

Sometimes people can be so ungrateful. Changes take time to happen and bugs require time to be fixed. Just look at the recent update? A long list of bug fixes for many quest, class skills, improvements to the game. People have to understand that things don't happen instantly and it never will. As they often say and you have to remember, Anet employees are humans and not mindless robot drones. They're working as fast and efficiently as possible and making sure they don't get it right this time or minimise the likelihood of mistakes.

[FiachSidhe]

Lafiele, on 16 November 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

Sometimes people can be so ungrateful. Changes take time to happen and bugs require time to be fixed. Just look at the recent update? A long list of bug fixes for many quest, class skills, improvements to the game. People have to understand that things don't happen instantly and it never will. As they often say and you have to remember, Anet employees are humans and not mindless robot drones. They're working as fast and efficiently as possible and making sure they don't get it right this time or minimise the likelihood of mistakes.

Things that don't result in player advantage take months to fix. But you better believe, anything that results in reduced grind, or easier time getting exotics, etc. will be hotfixed in a day or two. If Anet wanted to, they could be churning out bug fixes every week. Other companies manage it just fine. They aren't some indy company and they have more than enough resources and manpower.

Rickter, on 16 November 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

i think you are a bit mistakened. you paid for a box with a key in it that gives you access to their game.

Semantics. What part of your argument makes the payment go away?

Edited by FiachSidhe, 16 November 2012 - 04:19 AM.

[Corvindi]

One of the things that made me really look forward to GW2 was that supposedly there was no need to manually form a party.  Whoops!  Not true.  In both WvW and PVE, if you want decent loot, party or log out and don't waste your time.  It's moronic.

[Ardeni]

Arquenya, on 15 November 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

I think it's good to have a collection of quotes that disprove any "they didn't say that" arguments. It's actually a pretty solid fact finding OP.

It doesn't worry me that the game is what it has become. What is disturbing is that ANet has been telling us that we (analogy) would get a red ferrari, but delivered a black toyota. Which can also be good but definitely isn't a red ferrari.
If you see the list of FACTS in the OP I find that pretty serious.

And the most saddening thing is that they actually could have made that red ferrari but - for one mysterious reason or other - decided against it. It could have been exceptional but they're heading towards the "thirteen in a dozen" category.
My only question is "WHY??".

The interesting thing about this solid "fact" finding is that out of the twelve points in the post, I disagree with four and agree but don't care (which is of course only my subjective opinion) about two of them. So, only half of the list matters to me. Sure, six issues such as the gear treadmill, soulbound dyes and crafting useless items are annoying changes. Arenanet could hand should have done better.

[DuskWolf]

Midnight_Tea, on 15 November 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

You know, I often think much the same. Why do MMOs have to always be about bludgeoning bad guys with increasingly larger bladed sticks? GW2 has a chance to be unique and different by opening more sandbox-y activities. Really, anybody has a chance to be. This is a niche pretty much dying to be filled. The runaway success of Minecraft and similar games is proof enough that we're overdue for more creative outlets.

Also, yes, It is too early for power creep.

I couldn't agree more.

It makes me sad, because... there was so much promise and potential. So much.

Brilliant locales for roleplaying.

They failed to realise this. The cities are tiny and pale imitations of the concept art. Look at the giant deathstar that the Black Citadel was supposed to be, then look at the lazy effort we got in game. In game they just slapped down models even without even bothering to put rims on things, so you have houses just sinking into metal.

GW2 looks depressingly bad. And it shouldn't. GW1 looks better, right now, than GW2 does. Why is that? Everquest II looks better than GW2. Why? Champions Online has bigger, more realised cities with loads of fun, roleplaying locales. It's just all so dead. This is one area where they really could have focused on. This leads me to...

In-city activities.

Look at the charr cars. Consider how awesome things like races and destruction derbies might have been. Or helicopter training missions where you get to fly far, far above Tyria, where you can see landmarks on the distant ground below you. They could have done breath-takingly genius things with this. They could have in every city. Instead, there are scant events, they're almost not there.

The player instance.

They could have made this a thing of persistence, they could have had places which you could decorate with things you'd won by playing games. There could have been quests entirely centred around the player instance which would change it permanently. There could have been customisation options to buy. A giant relief of your character's head on that mountain? Why the hell not?

Its a game, it's supposed to be fun!

Jumping puzzles.

They could have made these so that anyone of any level could access any of them, and they could have put in multiples of them in every zone. And most of them are depressingly short. They could have had long ones. And what about throwing in things like riddles that you have to get right, otherwise you'll fall prey to some kind of trap.

They could have had something like the riddle dungeon from Landstalker (for the Mega Drive/Genesis for those that remember that), and they could have had puzzles like the puzzle chunks in Torchlight II, or like Uru: Ages Beyond Myst, which could have had people working together to come up with solutions to them.

Dynamic events.

These are just copypasta things. And considering that GW2's combat is abysmally slow and monotonous (I prefer the zippier, more fun, more immediate and visceral combat of Champions online)? I think they could have done other things. They could have taken pages from The Secret World and CO. They could have had investigative things which would have lead you around the zone. Maybe someone asks you to figure out the perpetrator of a murder.

You'd get to question people, piece evidence together, and actually use your brain instead of just one-to-five, faceroll to survive. It could have had peopel cooperating to try and figure things out. Because to be honest, GW2 right now is like TSW but without those fun parts.

Potential?

So much of it... wasted. GW2 galls me. They couldn't make the combat fun, I guess. Okay, fine. It's depressingly slow and focuses around the sterile sword-swing trading of WoW. But they could have made the rest of the game fun, couldn't they? For me, GW2 is just falling so very short of the potential it could have had. It genuinely exasperates me.

Some days I wish I'd been the head of design, there, so I could get their priorites straight, to help them create a really unique, fun game. And one that isn't so focused on slow, monotonous combat and grind. Grind. Grind. Grind. I guess we can blame Nexon for that, I don't know. Still... what a mess.

As I keep saying, there are so many things they could have done to make it great. So many things.

[Snapalope]

I think all ArenaNet managed to do was build a massive cult of personality instead of creating a game they promised.

[ilr]

shanaeri rynale, on 15 November 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

They were honest about one of the most important things, No monthly fees.

Really curious how long that's going to last with Nexon pulling strings.
If every other bet was off b/c they found creative ways to skirt around their own promises,
then this bet is off also as soon as they come up with the final creative nail.

[Shadok]

Unless my reading comprehension is lacking, this thread is about promises. That said, the point of this discussion is whether or not ArenaNet has kept their promises- not about the game itself. However, this topic clearly does branch off a bit due to the implications of whether or not promises have been kept.

An important thing to take into consideration is that there is a colossal difference between the implementation and functionality of features. The functionality would fall under "When it's ready.". By this, I mean a list of features was released to the public prior to launch. The game being ready would clearly indicate that this entire list of features was functional. Sadly, this was not the case. Even the category of features can be broken up a bit further. First, there were luxury features, such as guesting, that were not 100% necessary at launch. These features should have been ready, but were clearly hard to test. Although the fact that the guesting system was never even tested in beta is rather disheartening, it's something that I personally was able to overlook and accept as a mistake rather than a broken promise. Next under the category of functionality, we have vital features. This would include things like dungeons or account security. I will once again give them the benefit of the doubt on account security, as this is rather difficult to test pre-launch. Hell, I myself managed to have my account compromised while taking every precaution possible, but without authenticators it was almost expected. However, the same cannot be said for dungeons. Even Ascalonian Catacombs, the first (and most extensively tested) dungeon, was full to the brim with game-shattering bugs. My guild took 3 attempts before we were able to clear it due to a boss not spawning on our first run and a door not opening on the next. Similar bugs continued to be prevalent throughout almost every dungeon we came across. These are things that cannot be overlooked, as they completely kill the desire to carry on in a game. How would you feel if you spent 2-3+ hours working on something, only to realize that you cannot go any further due to forces beyond your control? My guild and I hit this point almost every night for a couple of weeks, and it never got any easier to leave the dungeon without completing it.

Now I'll shortly go over the problem of implementation of features. The implementation of features is basically the way that they are introduced to the game. A few examples of failings in the implementation of features in Guild Wars 2 would be Ascension armor (clearly), the dye system, and dungeons. The first, and probably the most controversial, would be the Ascension armor. Although I personally see this as a way for the game to bring back players who ran out of things to do, it does go against the initial philosophy of the game. The developers made it clear that max armor would be easy to acquire with a static cap. By this, I mean that you would never have to worry about logging in to find that there was now new armor with better stats than your own. Going against the original plan does quite a bit to worry players. Next, we have the dye system. Quite simply, the functionality was changed before launch, plain and simple. Were we warned beforehand? Yes. Does this change the fact that it happened? No. Lastly, we have dungeons. Although the 'badge' system originally promised has been adhered to, the amount of dungeon completions is far beyond what it was originally stated to be. In other words, players need to grind out dungeons for armor although they had been promised otherwise. This is another feature that I actually agree with, but that does not change the fact that this implementation broke yet another promise.

So, what does all of this mean? Does it mean Guild Wars 2 is a bad game? No, of  course not. However, it does mean that players will have a hard time believing any future promises from ArenaNet. This could very easily be cause for a decline in population, which hurts people of all playstyles, regardless of popular belief. While some of these changes may be for the better, even if they're not exactly the best method of implementation, they go against the original plan. If ArenaNet had even the slightest clue that they would go this route, they should have been more careful when it came to outlining their plans.

TL;DR- Did they break some promises? Yes? Will this hurt the community? Yes. Does this make Guild Wars 2 a bad game, or even ArenaNet a bad company? No.

Everyone, keep in mind that when a discussion ceases to be civil it becomes an argument. If you are capable of discussing this topic, do so freely. If you simply wish to complain about the opinions of others, or the game in general, with no basis for any of your statements, move along. Anyone trying to derail this thread, insult other users, or insult the game for the sake of doing so will not be tolerated.

Keep in mind that regardless of the fact that I am a moderator on these forums, I am still allowed to form an opinion about the game on my own. This is me discussing a game that I care deeply for, and should not be interpreted otherwise. If anyone wishes to take this discussion off-topic, do so through private messages rather than posting in this thread.

/end wall of text

[Own Age Myname]

We've been lied to for years, now its news to you people? I've been ridiculed by this community for speaking out against this stuff and now people are finally seeing it.

[Snapalope]

Own Age Myname, on 16 November 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

We've been lied to for years, now its news to you people? I've been ridiculed by this community for speaking out against this stuff and now people are finally seeing it.

I've been saying that since GW1 and I always get flamed to death.  I have no idea how people can trust a company like this.

[Own Age Myname]

Exactly. And to people who think we just don't know how to handle bullshit..this all started when they introduced costumes in GW1...just a small thing like costumes had the community in rage. GW1Guru was on fire that day. We've been told it's not a big deal..."learn to accept it". I've accepted for too damn long and no one else should either.

Also funny people thought stuff like PvP would be balanced with Izzy at the helm of it. LOL. Good joke.

Edited by Own Age Myname, 16 November 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[Snapalope]

Own Age Myname, on 16 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Exactly. And to people who think we just don't know how to handle bullshit..this all started when they introduced costumes in GW1...just a small thing like costumes had the community in rage. GW1Guru was on fire that day. We've been told it's not a big deal..."learn to accept it". I've accepted for too damn long and no one else should either.

Also funny people thought stuff like PvP would be balanced with Izzy at the helm of it. LOL. Good joke.

The fact that IWAY lived that long is a testiment how bad Izzy was.

[Lordkrall]

The thing is: If you don't like the game or the company behind it, simply leave it.
Why post millions of posts saying the exact same thing but in different words instead of just leave?

If I join a soccer-team and find out that the leader is an idiot and does things I do not agree with, why would I stay in that team?

Some people have serious problems with moving on and accept that companies are not there to cater to their specific wants or needs.

[Own Age Myname]

Lordkrall, on 16 November 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

The thing is: If you don't like the game or the company behind it, simply leave it.
Why post millions of posts saying the exact same thing but in different words instead of just leave?

If I join a soccer-team and find out that the leader is an idiot and does things I do not agree with, why would I stay in that team?

Some people have serious problems with moving on and accept that companies are not there to cater to their specific wants or needs.

So a company that promised me a game that was "everyone you loved about GW1 but in a persistant world" is a company I should expect to change their beliefs?? Because that's what I was advertised. This game is nothing I loved about GW1, and I should just walk away from it? No, I don't care if it's "just a video game", that "video game" I put thousands of hours into and is a large part of my life; I guess soccer is "just soccer" and I shouldn't care about it if they changed the basic principles of the game. Because that's what Anet is doing. I'm sorry that I care and want ANet to make a game that they told me about instead of this WoW in Tyria bullshit.

Enjoy the low population, because that's the direction ANet is heading. This game isn't gaining players that's for sure. So if you're happy with that keep telling us to leave. Because 50% of us don't like this update.

Edited by Own Age Myname, 16 November 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[Knuckledust13]

Jump_N_Move, on 16 November 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

I just wish they had never said they will release it when it's done. Coming from Anet i wanted to believe them, and that's my fault. But the state of the game in those 3 BWE, was no where near a finished game product. Beta, sure. They were great betas. They got alot of changes made and the game improved overall. But they were so obviously rushed it was painful to watch/play through. I mean honestly half of this game is still missing. Guilds and PvP effectively do not exist. Guild Halls/GvG was THE main staple of Guild Wars. They should of held out for a solid month or two before launching this game. I would have rather had another BWE and a month extra wait than this slow-release-to-appease-everyone-update garbage. Really, in my mind I just tell my self its still in Beta and play it like any other Korean MMO that never gets out of beta.

This is the most lucid post I have seen. Thanks so much dude, I always thought I was the only one to see half-baked content everywhere.

For starters, skins: I know this is subjective, but it is crystal clear that the only legendaries that got love were the greatswords and maybe the hammer. I almost cried in real for the guy who crafted the legendary focus after 850 hours grinding. Seriously.

Then, personal story, which has nothing of personal. It doesn't affect anything, it doesn't shift any characteristics on your toon, it doesn't change the world like ANet claimed. It is a script which converges when trehearne enters your story, by which point you are following the same plot as everyone else.

Pvp. One pvp mode on release for a game that was claiming to be the next e-sports sensation? And it even lacks basic features, such as spectators and many others. Underwater combat is madly unbalanced and over water combat feels like whoever mashes 1-5 faster and dodges red shit wins. Again, subjective

Zerg.. zergs everywhere, wvw and pve alike.. you are basically another number. The only situation where I felt NEEDED and appreciated on a encounter was on the fire elemental, playing support guardian. Every other pve and wvw encounter just seems dull, you being there or not doesn't make any diff whatsoever...

Then lastly, skill system. Whoever wasn't frustrated when they found out they would be stuck with that same 5 skills forever, never played other MMOs. GW2 does a "good" job on customizing the characters appearance (even tho half the population walks around in terribad cof armor), but skill-wise I just feel like another number. The trait choices and utility skills hardly set you apart from others, when essentially you are mashing the same 1-5 over and over.

[Own Age Myname]

Lordkrall, on 16 November 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

And yet you keep ignoring several parts of GW1 that was rather much mandatory grind for several parts of the game, and the fact that you had to grind for more or less everything in the game.
And the fact that they added better items soon after release.
And the fact that they added even better items a few years after release that then became more or less mandatory for several parts of the game.

I have no idea what you are talking about. GW1 had terrible design decisions, and I was afraid that it was going to happen in GW2. But they told us "we learned a lot from GW1", no they didn't learn shit. This is way worse and it's only 3 months in. GW1 improved vastly till around EoTN..then it dropped because of a heavy grind influence. Funny that's when GW2 was announced..mmmm...

I also find it funny how you ignored my whole post and went full strawman on me.

Edited by Own Age Myname, 16 November 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[Lordkrall]

Own Age Myname, on 16 November 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

I have no idea what you are talking about. GW1 had terrible design decisions, and I was afraid that it was going to happen in GW2. But they told us "we learned a lot from GW1", no they didn't learn shit. This is way worse and it's only 3 months in. GW1 improved vastly till around EoTN..then it dropped because of a heavy grind influence. Funny that's when GW2 was announced..mmmm...

Funny how you completely ignored the extreme grind NEEDED to do most of Nightfall.
Or for that matter the rather big grind needed to complete the Faction Storyline.

People keep referring to how awesome and good GW1 was with no grind and everything was wonderful and how GW2 is so much worse.

Yet GW2 has about the same amount (or possible even less when taken the size into account) of grind as GW1.
If you are to compare to GW1 at least remember everything about GW1 and not just the things you want to remember and those that would support your argument.

[Own Age Myname]

Snapalope, on 16 November 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

If you have never played high end PvP you have no idea where our frustration is coming from.  You just can't understand how we watched Izzy butcher PvP.

Oh man, preach to the choir, I used to be in top 500 teams. He murdered high end GvG and now GW1's PvP is left with mangled bones because of it.

Lordkrall, on 16 November 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Funny how you completely ignored the extreme grind NEEDED to do most of Nightfall.
Or for that matter the rather big grind needed to complete the Faction Storyline.

People keep referring to how awesome and good GW1 was with no grind and everything was wonderful and how GW2 is so much worse.

Yet GW2 has about the same amount (or possible even less when taken the size into account) of grind as GW1.
If you are to compare to GW1 at least remember everything about GW1 and not just the things you want to remember and those that would support your argument.

What??? Extreme grind in NF? You mean that 1 quest where you went out for 1 hour and got the Sunspear points? Or in Factions you play like 5 games of Alliance battles to get 10k faction, my god the grind!!!

GW1's grind was all cosmetic. People liked it so much that the community has been active for 8 years. GW2? 3 months and it's bleeding out.

Edited by Own Age Myname, 16 November 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Snapalope]

Everybody did DoA at like R1 or 2 LB when it was out; our guild and many other teams cleared the whole thing with only R1 or 2 LB a few days after it's out.  You never played DoA classicway have you.  You know the way to do DoA that actually requires skills and perfect team coordination.

Edited by Snapalope, 16 November 2012 - 09:00 AM.