553 replies to this topic

[Obscure One]

AiponGkooja, on 24 November 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

You used a lot of words to explain that you don't know the meaning of "sunk cost" and "opportunity cost."  Despite how you feel, you are not obligated to play the game just because you spent money on it.  If you could get more value out of doing something else, that would be a better use of your time.  Every moment you spend playing a game that is not entertaining to you is actually COSTING you more value because you are missing out on something else that would be more worth your time.

While you can say that the entertainment should mirror the value of other games, it can easily be the case that you just made a bad purchase and should move on.  If the game is really that bad, it makes no sense to keep playing it.  That is pretty basic reasoning.  So the fact remains that you either enjoy the game much more than you want to admit, you have absolutely nothing better to do, or you are making an irrational decision to keep playing it.

Now you are right that I have to make one glaring assumption for this reasoning to be accurate.  I assume you play games for the entertainment value they provide.  If that is a mistaken assumption, then I deeply apologize.

P.S.  Just to clarify, is the Skyrim parenthetical just because you have already "gotten your value" out of it?  Or are you not keeping track for some other reason?  Just curious.

[Edit]: Oh, and for the success/failure I was simply pointing out that even with them, according to you, failing at nearly everything, there is still a part of the game that appeals enough to you to continue playing it for 3 more months.  So while they may please some people with the new changes, and displease others, there are still parts of the game that individual people like enough to ignore the parts that they don't like.  And the game is designed in such a way that those people can just play the parts they truly enjoy.  That in itself doesn't seem like a complete failure.  It seems more like a broad spectrum success. (So far... )

Quite the contrary, I've been through more business classes than I care to list...it's how I figured out I didn't want to get my BS in Business...though that is beside the point, and it would seem you've been tragically missing mine.

If I were to tell you I'm selling you a statue of an eagle, and go to great lengths to convince you it will be a magnificent statue that breaks the conventional notions of statue design you would expect to get it as described. Now imagine instead of an eagle, I give you a dolphin, which obviously was made using very traditional design techniques. No matter how much of a masterpiece that the dolphin statue may be, and no mater how much you may or may not like it, it is unquestionably a failure to deliver upon the design concept.

Your comments are not relevant to that notion, but rather to general game success or failure, which are not at all relevant to my statements. I find that the most successful MMO, World of Warcraft, to be a detestable game that I refuse to play due to the exacting elements that have permeated GW2. The success of any product has nothing to do with whether or not I personally find it entertaining (ex: the Twilight movie series was a major success and a cult phenomenon among "tween" girls, yet I find the very mention of it repulsive), but based upon its ability to turn a profit and retain the business of the targeted consumer.

[edit: P.S.]

Yes, the reason I added the parenthetical comment about Skyrim is because I've gotten vastly more entertainment value out of it, and even continue to do so, than other games at the same price point. I can say the same for Oblivion and Morrowind on my account.

Edited by Obscure One, 24 November 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[AiponGkooja]

Obscure One, on 24 November 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Quite the contrary, I've been through more business classes than I care to list...it's how I figured out I didn't want to get my BS in Business...though that is beside the point, and it would seem you've been tragically missing mine.

If I were to tell you I'm selling you a statue of an eagle, and go to great lengths to convince you it will be a magnificent statue that breaks the conventional notions of statue design you would expect to get it as described. Now imagine instead of an eagle, I give you a dolphin, which obviously was made using very traditional design techniques. No matter how much of a masterpiece that the dolphin statue may be, and no mater how much you may or may not like it, it is unquestionably a failure to deliver upon the design concept.

Your comments are not relevant to that notion, but rather to general game success or failure, which are not at all relevant to my statements. I find that the most successful MMO, World of Warcraft, to be a detestable game that I refuse to play due to the exacting elements that have permeated GW2. The success of any product has nothing to do with whether or not I personally find it entertaining (ex: the Twilight movie series was a major success and a cult phenomenon among "tween" girls, yet I find the very mention of it repulsive), but based upon its ability to turn a profit and retain the business of the targeted consumer.

[edit: P.S.]

Yes, the reason I added the parenthetical comment about Skyrim is because I've gotten vastly more entertainment value out of it, and even continue to do so, than other games at the same price point. I can say the same for Oblivion and Morrowind on my account.

It was probably a good decision to not go after that business degree...  Did you go into drama or journalism instead by any chance?  The ONLY reasonable options for why you are still playing the game are that you are either misrepresenting how much you dislike it, or you are making a very very very basic irrational decision to continue playing it out of a misguided attempt to make up for a sunk cost.  Those are literally the only reasonable options.  I'm sorry you can't admit that to yourself.  Obviously there are some other unreasonable options, such as being forced to play it against your will, or having literally nothing better (of more value) to do with your time, but I am going out on a limb and making another assumption that that is not true.

Going back to your previous post I do see that you said "failed to deliver on design concepts."  So I apologize for misunderstanding when you later said simply "failed on nearly every level."  I see now that you were probably still only talking about delivering on initial design concepts.  Sorry for the mistake!

[Obscure One]

AiponGkooja, on 25 November 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

It was probably a good decision to not go after that business degree...  Did you go into drama or journalism instead by any chance?  The ONLY reasonable options for why you are still playing the game are that you are either misrepresenting how much you dislike it, or you are making a very very very basic irrational decision to continue playing it out of a misguided attempt to make up for a sunk cost.  Those are literally the only reasonable options.  I'm sorry you can't admit that to yourself.  Obviously there are some other unreasonable options, such as being forced to play it against your will, or having literally nothing better (of more value) to do with your time, but I am going out on a limb and making another assumption that that is not true.

Going back to your previous post I do see that you said "failed to deliver on design concepts."  So I apologize for misunderstanding when you later said simply "failed on nearly every level."  I see now that you were probably still only talking about delivering on initial design concepts.  Sorry for the mistake!

I do not believe I've given an approximation of whether or not I like GW2 as my comments have been directed at its inability to deliver what I was assured it would be, which by and large is the fundamental premise of this thread. I have mentioned at a couple points in our conversation that I am still entertained by it, and will continue playing it until such time as I'm required to give Arena Net more money to remain competitive, or I no longer find it's redeeming qualities entertaining enough to continue playing (whichever comes first). Your conclusions as to me being irrational in continuing to play and futility attempting to make up for a sunk cost are errors presented by a misrepresentation of my comments. I also still play Mass Effect 3, as I do enjoy the game yet hold a similar disdain for the developers who sold it upon a wave of disingenuous remarks and failed to deliver the design concept they assured to the consumer.

Whether or not I like that traditional dolphin statue doesn't change the fact that they assured me that I'd receive an unconventional eagle statue; enjoying a lie does not alter the fact that it is a lie.

[edit: P.S.]
As for the degree I, interestingly enough, did in fact end up with a minor in Journalism, lol.

Edited by Obscure One, 25 November 2012 - 09:53 PM.

[Daesu]

Re-posting this from the locked thread:

Say whatever you like about that patch, but ever since the release of that patch, the gem->gold exchange rate has shot up in favor of gems which I interpret to mean a higher demand for gems.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

This is good news for ArenaNet revenue, so is that patch a success or not?  For all we know, ArenaNet may have been celebrating it as a success.  Perhaps we are just not the right kind of customers for them.

Edited by Daesu, 26 November 2012 - 05:17 AM.

[Eon Lilu]

Daesu, on 26 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

This is good news for ArenaNet revenue, so is that patch a success or not?  For all we know, ArenaNet may have been celebrating it as a success.  Perhaps we are just not the right kind of customers for them.

Quick boost in profits is what happens when you go for quick cash grabs like rng gambling and increasing artificial grind and flip flop design changes.

Whether or not it turns into long term player trust and long term profits...is yet to be seen but its not looking good.

[IsThisNameTaken]

I soloed Kol the other day (funny how literally NO one was around Harathi Hinterlands), and I got a Blue Ravaging Pistol. Whatever happened to the statement:

“The drop rarity of Rare and Exotic weapons from certain places in the world (champions, veterans, and players in WvW) has been increased. Rares and Exotics should be much more likely to drop and every champion should be guaranteed to drop loot. This was to ensure that world loot drops were not a significantly worse way of acquiring rare and exotic items than crafting and running dungeons.”

[Lordkrall]

Increased != guaranteed.

Did people really think that the statement meant that you would get an exotic everytime you killed a Champion?

[IsThisNameTaken]

Lordkrall, on 26 November 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

Increased != guaranteed.

Did people really think that the statement meant that you would get an exotic everytime you killed a Champion?

I'll put it in bold so you can read it:

Rares and Exotics should be much more likely to drop and every champion should be guaranteed to drop loot.

Some people aren't even getting loot!

Edit: Font size was a bit much >.>

Edited by IsThisNameTaken, 26 November 2012 - 08:52 AM.

[Lordkrall]

Aye, you are guaranteed to get LOOT. Not guaranteed to get exotic or rare loot.
And from your post it sounded like the statement was wrong because you only got a blue.

[IsThisNameTaken]

Lordkrall, on 26 November 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

Aye, you are guaranteed to get LOOT. Not guaranteed to get exotic or rare loot.
And from your post it sounded like the statement was wrong because you only got a blue.

Yes, I got loot, though it was disappointing. I quoted Chris because many people on the official forums have reported getting no loot at all.

Since they get no loot, one can assume that the patch to 'fix' this is broken and thus the Exotic and Rare item chance to drop is not working.

Edit: Forgot the dude's name... thought it was Mike

Edited by IsThisNameTaken, 26 November 2012 - 08:52 AM.

[DuskWolf]

Daesu, on 26 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Perhaps we are just not the right kind of customers for them.

Their prime customers are apparently the sort who'd apparently trade their pride for opt-in taxes. I'll never understand that, but there you go.

Let me put this in perspective: In two matches on silver difficulty in ME3 I have enough for a spectre pack, one match on gold is a spectre pack, one match on platinum is enough for either two spectre packs or one premium spectre pack.

Where I'm going with this is that it isn't necessary to spend a single penny on the multi-player and I respect that. Now, if this was GW2, you'd have to play 2,000 silver matches for a spectre pack, and that's before accounting for the taxes you'd be paying, probably nearer 2,800 matches once you've accounted for the tax.

People just like throwing their money away, or making excuses for bad game design whilst they grind away at the same tasks whilst taxes sap their money away anyway.

[Daesu]

DuskWolf, on 26 November 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

Their prime customers are apparently the sort who'd apparently trade their pride for opt-in taxes. I'll never understand that, but there you go.

While I can understand your dislike for the behavior of these people, you should know that such behavior naturally follows from the design of the game.  Furthermore I believe this is done on purpose to boost revenue, so I don't blame these people at all.  They just want to play the game in the way that maximizes their enjoyment.  In other words, if you want to blame someone for this, blame ArenaNet.

Edited by Daesu, 26 November 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[RedStar]

DuskWolf, on 26 November 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

Their prime customers are apparently the sort who'd apparently trade their pride for opt-in taxes. I'll never understand that, but there you go.

It's funny that you keep saying that this is a game, meant to be fun and to disconnect from the real world and its problems, and you keep talking about "pride" "self-respect" and whatnot...

[raspberry jam]

AiponGkooja, on 23 November 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Your link is ironic.

You can try to derail the topic all you want, but the fact remains that it is irrational to use your argument in this situation, because your conclusion would be true no matter what happens, even if this situation did not occur.  In other words, you are unhappy with the balance no matter what happens.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't actually CARE that you're determined to be unhappy; I just don't want anyone to mistake what you are saying to be a reasonable argument, because it's not.

Cheers.

What? But the situation is the introduction of a new tier of gear stats. How would they be forced to make content for ascended gear if ascended gear didn't exist? That would be impossible. If exotic gear was the top stated gear, they could just make content for that gear tier forever.