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Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

ascended grind gear-treadmill

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#331 IsThisNameTaken

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:06 AM

If they are adding ascended gear through "all kinds of content", I assume they mean existing dungeons as well. I'm glad I didn't spend all my tokens. Haha, silly me for planning to get the CoE crit daggers and then infusing them with the Ascalonian ones.
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#332 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:11 AM

Noone even barely talk about present dungeon updates to ascended, nor a new use of dungeon tokens. I wouldn't joy too early ;)

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 November 2012 - 06:11 AM.

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#333 Var

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:31 AM

This is totally false - ALL bosses apply agony on 10+. Yes it WILL down you if you do not heal through it.

The Asura applies agony after golems phase shift - The spirit tree in swamp applies Agony at roughly 70% and somewhere else during the fight - Can't recall for charr boss (the ones I fought).

Can you beat it with no Agony? If your really lucky on heals sure, but Agony was downing 3/5 players in our group. Wanna know why the others weren't getting downed as fast? Resistance already on gear. Thankfully I got an ascended ring on my first Agony run.....


As of so far, the only unavoidable agony is the Jade Maw's tentacles bursting out. Every other instance from the bosses is caused by their attacks hitting and is, as such, avoidable, is what he was probably talking about. There is only one fight that blankly applies the debuff as of so far.
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#334 Phy

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:24 AM

Sounds like people will just start farming 8-9.
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#335 Thyya

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:12 AM

Will there be a mystic forge recipe where you can throw old cursed-shore-vendor armors in, plus may be new karma-bought ingredients and, poof, you get ascended upgrades? Because I invested 300k+ karma to equip 3 lvl80s. And then one day, I woke up and found out my current armors will be outdated.

:angry: :angry: :angry:

correction: roughly 250k for each char

Edited by Thyya, 20 November 2012 - 09:03 AM.

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#336 Lordkrall

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

Will there be a mystic forge recipe where you can throw old cursed-shore-vendor armors in, plus may be new karma-bought ingredients and, poof, you get ascended upgrades? Because I invested 300k+ karma to equip 3 lvl80s. And then one day, I woke up and found out my current armors will be outdated.

:angry: :angry: :angry:


And yet it won't be outdated. You can still do 99,9% of the game without ever touching Ascending gear.

There will probably be possible to get Ascended gear with Karma down the line though.
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#337 Bryant Again

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:38 AM

You can do any of the content in whites but it's still not a very 'bright' scenario :(

I can easily imagine these items be acquired through different and perhaps easier means, because the backlash they're getting for all this is starting to look a bit ugly.
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#338 Lordkrall

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:40 AM

You can do any of the content in whites but it's still not a very 'bright' scenario :(

I can easily imagine these items be acquired through different and perhaps easier means, because the backlash they're getting for all this is starting to look a bit ugly.


Or simply because they stated it will be soon after the announcement?
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#339 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:52 AM

Now a proper patch is available, most of us will be at lv 15 20+ lol :D
I truly hope it's not just on wvw, considering is capped just as is nearly all day, i cannot imagine if it turns to be a fractal farm, 6 hours of queue :zzz:

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 November 2012 - 09:52 AM.

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#340 Runkleford

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:02 AM

So if the argument is that "we don't need ascendent gear to play most of the game" then why in the world would Ascendent gear need higher stats? The infusion mechanic alone would have sufficed to combat the Agony mechanic.

So it not only creates an unnecessary rift between exotics and ascendent/legendary gear but they're dumbing the game down by making the rest of the game easy by introducing higher stat gear in a game that's already easy with exotics.
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#341 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:36 AM

You should see cof/ac speedrun back + rings speed. Now imagine a fullset ;)

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 November 2012 - 10:36 AM.

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#342 Stellarthief

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:41 AM

So about 45 minutes for a full run of all 3 fractals. So that's a mere 25.5 hours (of NOTHING but grinding the dungeon, not including any downtime) to get one Gift of Ascension, which is almost certainly not the only thing required.

If it takes a Gift of Ascension and one of the accessories, that number balloons to 93 hours of pure grinding (no downtime accounted for etc.).


And what else do you want to do with your time besides grind one content or another? Lets call that 4 days of gameplay... The game isnt going to be over next week, so you have lots of time to do the dungeons over the next year or so.
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#343 bassanguy

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:12 AM

any1 knows what to craft with the ascenciongift?
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#344 DoctorDyna

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:17 AM

...such an assumption is based on that a single path of progression (ascended gear to progress deeper into the fractal dungeons) is an issue that effects a large enough group of players.


Oh, but it does. First, we need to abandon the idea that ascended gear is only meant to serve as a "reward-method" for progressing into fractal dungeons alone.

It's an entire new level of gear rarity with increased stats, which all players - even the ones that might not want to do that one redundant puzzledungeon over and over, will want.

I understand now that they plan to introduce new methods of obtaining the gear, which is what led me to say that I hope they do it rather quickly, before they begin to damage their reputation for having a skill based game where item power rests at an easily obtainable plateau.
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#345 Red_Falcon

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:45 PM

Except ascended stuff is not something you can sell, it's account bound ;) Personal farm, you have to do fractals trillion times, or you're out ;)


Except Anet said there are going to be tons of ways to aquire ascended, including old dungeons, WvW, etc. ;)
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#346 Asudementio

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:05 PM

So if the argument is that "we don't need ascendent gear to play most of the game" then why in the world would Ascendent gear need higher stats? The infusion mechanic alone would have sufficed to combat the Agony mechanic.

So it not only creates an unnecessary rift between exotics and ascendent/legendary gear but they're dumbing the game down by making the rest of the game easy by introducing higher stat gear in a game that's already easy with exotics.


God i hope you are just being disingenuous with your position if you think that the minor stat gains from ascended will make the game easy.
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#347 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

Except Anet said there are going to be tons of ways to aquire ascended, including old dungeons, WvW, etc. ;)

I don't remember old dungeons (quite a nonsense farm fractals inside CM, meh maybe a bag containing dungeon tokens+fractals), they mentioned wvw , i wish they changed their plan about it, or wvw farm will be a 6h+ daily queue. And we need way more new added mats than just fractals for our uberexpensive craft plans. Maybe rare drops from veteran/champions of lost shores, it's still a beta content after all, uncomplete at all.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 November 2012 - 04:18 PM.

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#348 Red_Falcon

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

I don't remember old dungeons (quite a nonsense farm fractals inside CM, meh maybe a bag containing dungeon tokens+fractals), they mentioned wvw , i wish they changed their plan about it, or wvw farm will be a 6h+ daily queue. And we need way more new added mats than just fractals for our uberexpensive craft plans. Maybe rare drops from veteran/champions of lost shores, it's still a beta content after all, uncomplete at all.


They said old dungeon reward will be scaled with ascended items too.
It was in one of their ascended item articles they posted lately.
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#349 Ghostwing

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:21 PM

So it not only creates an unnecessary rift between exotics and ascendent/legendary gear but they're dumbing the game down by making the rest of the game easy by introducing higher stat gear in a game that's already easy with exotics.


They can downscale the gear if it became a problem. Don't know if they would, just saying they could.
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#350 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:22 PM

They said old dungeon reward will be scaled with ascended items too.
It was in one of their ascended item articles they posted lately.

Seems i lost that part, and i'm sure they never said old dungeons. Mind to quote me that post or a link?

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 20 November 2012 - 04:23 PM.

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#351 raspberry jam

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:33 PM

They said old dungeon reward will be scaled with ascended items too.
It was in one of their ascended item articles they posted lately.

I agree with Lucas Ashrock on this, provide link please.
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#352 Linfang

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:13 PM

Sounds like people will just start farming 8-9.


Why is this? I just got to 8 last night before logging off
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#353 Resolve

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:13 PM

Except Anet said there are going to be tons of ways to aquire ascended, including old dungeons, WvW, etc. ;)


How many thousand tokens/badges do you think it's going to cost? That's a long grind lol.
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#354 Runkleford

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:53 PM

God i hope you are just being disingenuous with your position if you think that the minor stat gains from ascended will make the game easy.


Disingenuous? No, I'm pointing out how the counter arguments from you guys about how you don't need ascendent gear for most of the game also applies to the higher stats on that gear. That argument says that the game is easy enough to not need ascendent gear (which is true) but why create an unnecessary rift and cause a disparity in the difficulty in obtaining gear with the highest stats. Even the slightest imbalance in power is troubling especially in WvW. It goes against what ANET said about skill > time.

You guys keep saying that the higher stats don't make a difference and so you're fine with exotics. So then why are the stats on Ascendent even needed then? The infusion by itself could serve the purpose of the gating mechanism.

No one has been able to answer these questions with a reasonable explanation. You and others the one being disingenuous because you are saying a higher stat tier is needed yet in the same breath telling everyone else you don't need it.
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#355 DoctorDyna

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

Disingenuous? No, I'm pointing out how the counter arguments from you guys about how you don't need ascendent gear for most of the game also applies to the higher stats on that gear. That argument says that the game is easy enough to not need ascendent gear (which is true)...*snip*


It really doesn't matter what's necessary to play the game for various levels of skill, if there's a higher level of gear, people are going to want it. As gear levels go up, you feel more powerful. The game getting easier is a product of being more powerful.

People won't be after the gear to make the game easier, they'll be after it to feel more powerful.

Like I said before, I just hope that while they're implementing new gear that satisfies a new level of gear fixation that they also implement more ways to get it quickly, or else they're setting themselves up for the same situation other MMOs are in, in which they've made it a point to not be an example of.

The relative difficulty of the game as it relates to creeping player power is a non-issue, or at least as far as this discussion is concerned, as the correction for this side effect is outside of the scope of what we're discussing.
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#356 Var

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

People won't be after the gear to make the game easier, they'll be after it to feel more powerful.


They'd get the latter, would be minimal to non-existent due to scaling of anything sub-80. Ascended or blues, the Orrians in Malchor's Leap aren't going to care since they'll still "DEATH GOOD!" you with their zerg "EVERYONE COME!" until you "RETURN TO DIE!".
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#357 Red_Falcon

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:35 PM

How many thousand tokens/badges do you think it's going to cost? That's a long grind lol.


We can't say until we see.
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#358 Phy

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:13 PM

Why is this? I just got to 8 last night before logging off

You need 2 consecutive runs for the bonus boss/fractal, If you stay below 10 you wont need to bother with agony.
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#359 DoctorDyna

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:03 PM

You need 2 consecutive runs for the bonus boss/fractal, If you stay below 10 you wont need to bother with agony.


And, with that, this discussion dissolves into nothing. It would seem players aren't interested in it. Is it apathy? Indifference?

I'm content to watch the community follow this into oblivion, only time will tell.

From one entropy fan to everyone involved, good luck.

Edited by DoctorDyna, 20 November 2012 - 10:04 PM.

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#360 Asudementio

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

Disingenuous? No, I'm pointing out how the counter arguments from you guys about how you don't need ascendent gear for most of the game also applies to the higher stats on that gear. That argument says that the game is easy enough to not need ascendent gear (which is true) but why create an unnecessary rift and cause a disparity in the difficulty in obtaining gear with the highest stats. Even the slightest imbalance in power is troubling especially in WvW. It goes against what ANET said about skill > time.

You guys keep saying that the higher stats don't make a difference and so you're fine with exotics. So then why are the stats on Ascendent even needed then? The infusion by itself could serve the purpose of the gating mechanism.

No one has been able to answer these questions with a reasonable explanation. You and others the one being disingenuous because you are saying a higher stat tier is needed yet in the same breath telling everyone else you don't need it.


I don't think better stats were needed, but i do think a harder to obtain sought after tier of equipment was needed- i just don't have issue with them choosing to make the reason for that tier of gear a stat bonus and the ability to progress in a dungeon.
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