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Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

ascended grind gear-treadmill

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#211 Runkleford

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

View PostArdeni, on 17 November 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

I don't know about the rings, but at least I got my quiver today. It wasn't that much of a farm. You just need about 20-40g, 24 skill points and the item from FotM. Didn't seem like an awful amount of grind to me.

Are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell. I'm a casual player and have one character to level 80 and working on my second character. I barely have 30 gold. If I need to spend 20 - 40 gold on one piece of  the statistically highest gear then GW2 really is no longer the casual friendly game that it touted itself to be.

#212 Ghostwing

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:36 AM

View PostRunkleford, on 18 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell. I'm a casual player and have one character to level 80 and working on my second character. I barely have 30 gold. If I need to spend 20 - 40 gold on one piece of  the statistically highest gear then GW2 really is no longer the casual friendly game that it touted itself to be.

Unless the stats are negligible. For comparison sake, compare the major rune of vigor to superior in GW1--it's 9 HP.

#213 Jason Seven

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:14 AM

View PostFizzypop, on 17 November 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

Except it has in other online games? Why can't it work here? Why can't fun be the incentive to play? GW2 sold plenty of people on their original premise. As much as Wow? No. They aren't going to get those types of numbers, but they can get a self-sustaining player base. That's all they need. The idea that gear grinding is the only way an mmo can run is just plain sad. It means that humanity has become so uncreative they can't possibly bother to think outside of their tiny little box. Btw, mmorpgs aren't the only mmos out there.
Because people don't play MMORPGs for fun. It's really that simple. Like I said before, MMORPGs have become a way for people to compare themselves directly with others, making them feel superior because they've achieved more than the rest. This couldn't be done in GW2 as everyone was supposed to be on the exact same power plateau for the rest of this game's life. Cosmetic progression was a doomed concept from the very beginning. Only few people feel the need to make their characters look good, especially in an MMORPG, instead they want them to become more and more powerful so they can continue showing their superiority. Creating the best MMORPG, like ArenaNet wants to means to beat the best MMORPG which is World of Warcraft as far as success goes. They don't need those types of numbers they need a lot more of them and that cannot be done with a small self-sustaining playerbase.

Quote

The idea that gear grinding is the only way an mmo can run is just plain sad. It means that humanity has become so uncreative they can't possibly bother to think outside of their tiny little box.
Well, only an MMORPG but yes, this is exactly how it is. This is all they care about and all they ever will care about. Why do you think are developers making games so easy and drown them in an abundance of tutorials concerning gameplay mechanics and functions that are painfully obvious? Because easy and rewarding games please the masses, they are designed to match such peoples capabilities. Thinking outside the box isn't one of those capabilities. A gear treadmill is an extremely simple concept that anyone can understand. Players like me love rewards and the constant progression found in those rewards. The methods of obtaining them being easy makes it a win-win situation.

Edited by Jason Seven, 18 November 2012 - 05:15 AM.


#214 Ardeni

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:06 AM

View PostRunkleford, on 18 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell. I'm a casual player and have one character to level 80 and working on my second character. I barely have 30 gold. If I need to spend 20 - 40 gold on one piece of  the statistically highest gear then GW2 really is no longer the casual friendly game that it touted itself to be.

I'm not being sarcastic. The total value of my items isn't more than about 110g, but still I don't think that these ascended items are that much of a grind, especially since the new dungeon is much more fun than any of the previous ones, at least in my opinion. Also, since we didn't have exotic backslots before this update, I guess that an update on the situation was a good thing for me.

It depends on the drop rate of the rings. I bet that it'll take a long, long time until one person finds two of them and if they are soulbound, you could get rings with wrong stats, which would suck. They could prove to be quite time consuming to get, but then again since it is just plain luck, I don't really feel like I have to get one. If I get them, that's fine. If I don't, it would annoy me just as much as a legendary precursor didn't drop to me today (which doesn't annoy me at all given the odds for such a thing happening).

Now, I am not a fan of the stat increase. It is something that I just don't understand. We didn't need it but well, it's here now and we just have to learn to live with it or quit the game. I didn't invest my money on the quiver for the stat increase but rather due to the look of it (quivers make sense on rangers). I do agree with Arenanet that we needed more items that are hard to get and it would have been perfect if we had gotten something like legendary armor, which would have had the same stats as exotics.

#215 tatsuo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:13 AM

Now Guildwars 2 is not any different than other crappy MMO's with their stupid grind.

#216 Resolve

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:34 AM

Well, those quivers are very expensive. Is there an alternative?

#217 Nox_Aeterna

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:41 AM

View Posttatsuo, on 18 November 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

Now Guildwars 2 is not any different than other crappy MMO's with their stupid grind.

I partially agree with this , and im considering if this game is really that much worth playing.

That said , im looking at the MMO getting out next.

#218 Minu

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:54 AM

For me, the problem is that GW2 was touted as a different style of MMO where gear progression was not stat based.  You can colour it anyway you like now, but that initial concept has changed.

I never played GW1, I was still playing Neverwinter Nights Online at the time, and then went to Lotro, and ended up here due to the promise of something different.

GW2 is now no different than any other MMO out there, and its big problem is that it is simple not as good as those other MMOs at what they do.

If I have to grind and rinse and repeat dungeons, which I don't enjoy, then I may as well go back to Lotro or Swtor, both of which I moved from in favour of something different, both of which are far more polished products.

#219 Zippor

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

View PostDuskWolf, on 17 November 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

I'm not your enemy. I'm trying to improve this game.

I'm genuinely trying to do that.

I invite you to shush for a moment and think about what I'm saying, rather than hitting back with yet another attack, where you prove your own ignorance more than anything else. Okay?

How are you going about doing it? Do you actually bring all of your issues, complaints and suggestions to the official forums? Have you contacted Anet and told them that they are doing things wrong? It would be cool if you were, but all I've seen you done is write your issues on this fan forum, ridiculing people, denying their opinions and telling them to be silent. Please stop this.

#220 JimC

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:00 AM

View PostGhostwing, on 18 November 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

Unless the stats are negligible. For comparison sake, compare the major rune of vigor to superior in GW1--it's 9 HP.

It's far from that. Full ascended infused has ~38% more damage output than exotic (comparing full berserker to full power/pres/crit ascended, asumming the armour has rune equivelancy/slot and the stat pool is the same as the rings/backpack and the weapon damage increases). Safe assumptions all.

#221 Ghostwing

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:09 AM

View PostJimC, on 19 November 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

It's far from that. Full ascended infused has ~38% more damage output than exotic (comparing full berserker to full power/pres/crit ascended, asumming the armour has rune equivelancy/slot and the stat pool is the same as the rings/backpack and the weapon damage increases). Safe assumptions all.

That extrapolation doesn't really have grounded evidence, though. Just because the new rings and backslot have a certain % jump it doesn't mean each armor piece would have proportionally the same jump when they're implemented. I haven't looked at all the numbers--does exotic gear share the same stat pool, from armor pieces to jewelry?

38% is a lot, though. Jeez.

Edited by Ghostwing, 19 November 2012 - 12:29 AM.


#222 karekiz

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:25 AM

Have you guys seen the price on Vial of powerful blood?  62 gold to buy 250 for ascended back.  Geesh.

In comparison I helped my brother get his ascended back for roughly 18-25 gold.  Yes these are a grind. A major one.

Edited by karekiz, 19 November 2012 - 12:33 AM.


#223 JimC

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

View PostGhostwing, on 19 November 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

That extrapolation doesn't really have grounded evidence, though. Just because the new rings and backslot have a certain % jump it doesn't mean each armor piece would have proportionally the same jump when they're implemented.

Granted it is all supposition. However it is based on the stat budge increase on the exiting 3. It stands to reason this will not change in the other 11 slots. It isn't much of a stretch to extrapolate out for the rest of the slots and we already know what the weapon damage increase will likely be (given the old Legendaries). Expect to see an armour value increase too. The only real question is wrt runes and will you see the likes of divinity/scholar runes and the power of lighting procs and 25 stacks of +10 power? I can't see them not having something "equivalent" rolled into the item if there is no upgrade slot. Mind, it may be hard to replicate just how good +10% damage is on the scholar rune for certain backstab-burst builds builds.

And expect to pay a crap ton to repair them. :)

And wait for it. Ascended food, since you have to keep cooking updated when you roll out ascended crafting. :)


Also, just for some fire, the current patch implementation  someone with 3 ascended is at a ~6% damage output advantage RIGHT NOW over berserker exotics. 6% isn't enough to replace skill, but it takes every single narrow win I have had over a backstab-ganking. Those happen to be some of the most memorable, enjoyable fights I have had in WvW. The heart stopping plummet of life, the hitting of the invulnerability/stun breaker/heal/dodge/knockback trying to skate back from the brink of death knowing if you can survive the next 2 seconds you you can lock him down and drop his ass. It turns those into frustrating, head-desk, stunned and dead loss. And that isn't good for the game in any way shape or form as any look at the PvP section will tell you.

If/When that 38% materializes, a C&D precast->Mug->Backstab with some happy day crits will be enough. Infact, A lucky backstab ALONE will be enough against any foolish glasscannon eles, doing enough to 0 their life pool, in what will finally be a true one-shot - against a lvl 80 - in exotics - not some lvl 5 with 100 toughness.

And just like in every other game where "but its such a tinny amount. Its only 5 points!". The problem comes when you multiple that out across multiple stats, in multiple slots that all stack together. A few snowflakes start the snowball rolling.

Edited by JimC, 19 November 2012 - 12:52 AM.


#224 garethporlest22

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:41 AM

View PostAbsintheminded, on 16 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

I think a bit of that is rosy-tinted glasses, because I for one got extremely tired of ecto farming. It had its moments and rewards, but it was still a grind. Now, I'm not saying that GW2's methods have been the best so far; I wish that all sets of armor had a standard method of being obtained, and I think GW1's method was good enough: Gather mats. You can divvy up the drops however you like, in effect making some obtainable easier through spamming dungeons, but I don't agree with spamming the crap out of one single dungeon for a set of gear, or farming karma, etc.
Yeah I got tired of it too eventually but no where near as fast as I got tired of it in Guild Wars 2.  It should have been like Guild Wars was because then a lot of this grind complaining wouldn't be around.

#225 Thoran23

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:22 AM

View Postbainjohnop, on 16 November 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

I believe good players will have this new gear tier in no time as wellPosted ImagePosted Image

I will farm you little, walking honor-badges with or without ascending gear.
I dont care about the rest, not at all. I play GW2 to grind waves and waves of baddies.
As long as im able to do that without beeing forced into specific PvE content im fine.

#226 Zippor

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:00 AM

Well I have to say, getting one piece of ascended gear wasn't actually all that difficult. I just got one yesterday when our group did lvl 10+ Jade Maw, it was inside a daily bonus chest. Not everyone from the group got one and those who got, didn't really get one with stats they're happy with. I'm pretty fine with what I got even though I have my sights on two other pairs of rings, we'll see how it goes till I get them.

#227 ToySoldier

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:12 AM

View PostJimC, on 19 November 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

NOW over berserker exotics. 6% isn't enough to replace skill, but it takes every single narrow win I have had over a backstab-ganking. Those happen to be some of the most memorable, enjoyable fights I have had in WvW. The heart stopping plummet of life, the hitting of the invulnerability/stun breaker/heal/dodge/knockback trying to skate back from the brink of death knowing if you can survive the next 2 seconds you you can lock him down and drop his ass.

This.  The people who want that extra "few points" will turn around and claim "those few points don't matter".  if it really doesn't matter, why do they want it?...

#228 Milennin

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:01 AM

View PostDuskWolf, on 17 November 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

*insert 10 page long post*

So basically you want them to re-design the entire game to fit your definition of fun. Could you be any more unrealistic?
And you claim to be involved in game design yourself, don't make me laugh. If some random guy on the forums told you to completely re-design a game you've been working on for 5 years, because it's not fun for him while thousands upon thousands of people enjoy your game, you wouldn't listen to him either.

#229 Plasticblanket

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:00 PM

Guys! I have found the solution to the problem. Do like me and stop logging in, this game is already dying anyway might as well declare it dead.

#230 Lordkrall

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:07 PM

View PostPlasticblanket, on 19 November 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

Guys! I have found the solution to the problem. Do like me and stop logging in, this game is already dying anyway might as well declare it dead.

Bye, bye.

No need to post anything else on these forums then.

Seeing the huge amount of people logging in yesterday I would say it is rather far from dying.

#231 Plasticblanket

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:09 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 19 November 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Bye, bye.

No need to post anything else on these forums then.

Seeing the huge amount of people logging in yesterday I would say it is rather far from dying.

That is only because of the event.

#232 Lordkrall

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:14 PM

View PostPlasticblanket, on 19 November 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

That is only because of the event.

So people will reinstall a dying game just to take part of an event?

#233 Zippor

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:17 PM

View PostPlasticblanket, on 19 November 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

That is only because of the event.

People displeased with the game tend to think this to be the only case.

#234 Plasticblanket

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:18 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 19 November 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

So people will reinstall a dying game just to take part of an event?

Most people have HDs that are large enough these days so they don't bother uninstalling. Don't know how far along you guys are in Sweden with technology though...

#235 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:19 PM

Some who found this game enough boring and not worthy his time, playing something else, yes, they reinstall the client just for a big event and bye again. Now event is done, and lost shore doesn't worth a damn, except geargrinders happy to have got the mmoclone with fractals are still here, for a few more days.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 19 November 2012 - 12:20 PM.


#236 Plasticblanket

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:22 PM

Let's face it.

GW2 = Recession WoW

#237 Lordkrall

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:22 PM

View PostPlasticblanket, on 19 November 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Most people have HDs that are large enough these days so they don't bother uninstalling. Don't know how far along you guys are in Sweden with technology though...

And yet if a game was dying why would you keep the game on your hdd? Seeing as you are not really interested to play the game there is no reason to have it on your computer taking up space.

If the game were dying people would not log in just for a specific event. I have seen several dying games and yet they did not have a massive amount of people logging in during special events.

#238 Plasticblanket

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 19 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

And yet if a game was dying why would you keep the game on your hdd? Seeing as you are not really interested to play the game there is no reason to have it on your computer taking up space.

If the game were dying people would not log in just for a specific event. I have seen several dying games and yet they did not have a massive amount of people logging in during special events.

The game is so bad people don't even find it worthy of the 5 seconds it takes to uninstall, a lot of people had hoped that the patch would bring some good changes.... It did not.... Well... For WoW lovers it did.

#239 Zippor

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:27 PM

What changes were you people expecting then?

#240 Lordkrall

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:28 PM

View PostPlasticblanket, on 19 November 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

The game is so bad people don't even find it worthy of the 5 seconds it takes to uninstall, a lot of people had hoped that the patch would bring some good changes.... It did not.... Well... For WoW lovers it did.

No point discussing this.
You don't like the game, so stop hanging around on a fan-forum for the game. Simple as that.





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