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Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

ascended grind gear-treadmill

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#361 Xsiriss

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:23 AM

The thing I don't get about Ascended gear is just, why? There doesn't need to be a tier between legendary and exotic, the gap really shouldn't exist to begin with and adding stats does not count as progression. Progression to me, as a long standing GW1 vet is actually doing stuff like going through campaigns and dungeons. All they needed to do was add the dungeon, put in a large amount of decent skins (armour and weapons) at exotic level and maybe the whole 'infusion business' though purely as something that can be used to upgrade armour you already have.

Gear stepping is only mildly better than a gear treadmill. I honestly hope they never bring out ascended weapons or armour and don't increase legendary stats either. It's not fun, innovative or even asked for. They should be balancing and fixing the game rather than trying to plug it full of new stuff.

#362 Runkleford

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:39 AM

View PostAsudementio, on 20 November 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

I don't think better stats were needed, but i do think a harder to obtain sought after tier of equipment was needed- i just don't have issue with them choosing to make the reason for that tier of gear a stat bonus and the ability to progress in a dungeon.

See, no one here is arguing against having harder to obtain items. The issue here is that better stats were attached to these hard to obtain items. And since no one can make a good argument for them having better stats then I'd say the arguments against these stats is the stronger position, especially since it goes against the whole philosophy of the game.

#363 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:34 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 20 November 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

We can't say until we see.
We are still waiting your link. Feel free to paste a dev post Posted Image

Not impossible with the bag sometimes drop with dungeon tokens, update with fractal tokens, 2 or 3, ye. Same about wvw, a bag of tokens, dropping sometimes

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 21 November 2012 - 03:35 AM.


#364 karekiz

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:57 AM

View PostPhy, on 20 November 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Sounds like people will just start farming 8-9.

Why would you farm something that doesn't really drop anything good? 1-9 is just a learning curve, they don't drop anything nice nor have tokens like Explorable.

If your not going to push past 10 you might as well farm AC, it is tons better money/loot.

#365 Drtoph

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:01 AM

I do not understand nor will I why they did not simply make these cool skins rather than adding stats on top of it.  I play this game because I did not want to grind out new gear once i had my set.

#366 Red_Falcon

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:18 AM

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 21 November 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

We are still waiting your link. Feel free to paste a dev post Posted Image

Not impossible with the bag sometimes drop with dungeon tokens, update with fractal tokens, 2 or 3, ye. Same about wvw, a bag of tokens, dropping sometimes

https://forum-en.gui...Chris-Whiteside

Edited by Red_Falcon, 21 November 2012 - 11:21 AM.


#367 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:38 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 21 November 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

Where exactly is the line talking about old dungeons. This one maybe?

Quote

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.
Because well, it's just your personal assumption we will have ascended gear from dungeon vendors ( if nearly 1500 are needed for exotic set, enjoy 3-4000 arah tokens for pink version ;) ). Fractals inside a bag with dungeon tokens+ a couple fractals, ye, not impossible. Next months. I guess i know the famous dev fake posts a bit better than you, we talk about them from days ;)
Try again Posted Image

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 21 November 2012 - 11:44 AM.


#368 Red_Falcon

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:08 PM

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 21 November 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Where exactly is the line talking about old dungeons. This one maybe?
Because well, it's just your personal assumption we will have ascended gear from dungeon vendors ( if nearly 1500 are needed for exotic set, enjoy 3-4000 arah tokens for pink version ;) ). Fractals inside a bag with dungeon tokens+ a couple fractals, ye, not impossible. Next months. I guess i know the famous dev fake posts a bit better than you, we talk about them from days ;)
Try again Posted Image

It's not an assumption, I read a post where they clearly said old dungeon rewards were going to be upscaled with the new tier of items.
I will not to skim through all their posts to find it for you who missed it just because you don't believe it, that's your problem if you missed it or if you think I would make this up (for what logical reason?).
You're the one who's skeptical so do your own research.

#369 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 21 November 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

It's not an assumption, I read a post where they clearly said old dungeon rewards were going to be upscaled with the new tier of items.
I will not to skim through all their posts to find it for you who missed it just because you don't believe it, that's your problem if you missed it or if you think I would make this up (for what logical reason?).
You're the one who's skeptical so do your own research.
Oh, i guess i'm pretty well informed about it. Guess, i was the one writing about it on this forum joking about it, maybe you was reading my post , and Freud kicks, making you think it's a dev post and you're sure about it Posted Image
(Psss, you're the only one talking about it, look around you :ph34r: )
I want ascended arah too, don't worry, looking forward to farm 4000 more tokens Posted Image
Seems you need me to repeat a few more times, reading comprehension maybe: it's not impossible we will find bags updated with tokens+ a couple fractals inside. This is way different than actual dungeon gear updated to ascended one. Speaking of which, not an impossible update. But we have to wait months and months where all weapons  and dungeon new sets are online, and people demand a dungeon update and accomplished. One day, why not. Then trillion whine about the uber token amount required lol :D

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 21 November 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#370 Resolve

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

I'd laugh so much if it really was 4k tokens.

#371 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

But makes a sense.

#372 raspberry jam

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 21 November 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

It's not an assumption, I read a post where they clearly said old dungeon rewards were going to be upscaled with the new tier of items.
I will not to skim through all their posts to find it for you who missed it just because you don't believe it, that's your problem if you missed it or if you think I would make this up (for what logical reason?).
You're the one who's skeptical so do your own research.
So, wait, when Chris Whiteside said this:

Quote

Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.
What he actually meant is that they will change existing rewards to have the same stats as legendaries have now, thus closing the stats gap in the "massive" jump that didn't previously even exist since legendaries had (and still have since they haven't even bumped them yet) as exotics, making the entire change in stats completely meaningless?

That is so damn convoluted that it almost actually can be what ANet is thinking. I mean, considering how they interpreted their own manifesto.

#373 Asudementio

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 21 November 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

See, no one here is arguing against having harder to obtain items. The issue here is that better stats were attached to these hard to obtain items. And since no one can make a good argument for them having better stats then I'd say the arguments against these stats is the stronger position, especially since it goes against the whole philosophy of the game.

I'll argue that higher stats is a strong way of adding progression in that it makes players feel stronger, but i'll also say they could have approached progression in different ways. I think a healthy fusion of vertical and horizontal progression is needed and stronger then a strong emphasis on horizontal or vertical progression- the goal is to temper vertical progression in such a way that it remains valid but doesn't automatically disadvantage you for being a tier behind.

#374 Brizna

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:23 PM

I played GW1 for 6 years and I had perfect equipment a few weeks after I started playing. The thing that kept me playing was never geting that neopren sui...ermm obsidian armor, but geting to play along with my friends and have fun. The fact that I could do a new character and have it ready to go almost anywhere in litte time made sure when I got tired of a character I could get another ready to have fun in no time.

GW2 while not beng the grindiest game out there is a huge step back in this regard I would have been the happiest guy in GW2 if ascended gear had exactly the same power as exotics but it had had the ability to swap the atributes and looks of the armor on the run to those of any other exotic equipment available, something like a joker armor, geting it would require a lot of playing, it but those having it would just have a very convenient and gorgeous piece of equipment, not simply a better one.

#375 badra al duun

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 20 November 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

And yet it won't be outdated. You can still do 99,9% of the game without ever touching Ascending gear.

Invalid argument.  You can do 99.9% of the game naked.

You are either in best gear, or you are not.  People put their time and effort into best gear, which is no longer best.  That is the definition of treadmill (so far, a just one step).

Still, I hate to see the above argument perpetuated.

#376 Red_Falcon

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 21 November 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Oh, i guess i'm pretty well informed about it. Guess, i was the one writing about it on this forum joking about it, maybe you was reading my post , and Freud kicks, making you think it's a dev post and you're sure about it Posted Image
(Psss, you're the only one talking about it, look around you :ph34r: )
I want ascended arah too, don't worry, looking forward to farm 4000 more tokens Posted Image
Seems you need me to repeat a few more times, reading comprehension maybe: it's not impossible we will find bags updated with tokens+ a couple fractals inside. This is way different than actual dungeon gear updated to ascended one. Speaking of which, not an impossible update. But we have to wait months and months where all weapons  and dungeon new sets are online, and people demand a dungeon update and accomplished. One day, why not. Then trillion whine about the uber token amount required lol :D

It's funny because we have no info at all on how ascended will be obtained, what means of obtaining them will be added, what changes will be made... pretty much nothing.
Yet it seems we have a group of people who are already convinced - based on nothing - that it will be a grind, it will be a treadmill, blablabla.

Prophets of the apocalypse doomsaying again, just like 2 months ago this forum was filled with 100 complain threads about exotics.
Guess how that ended? With people L2Ping, getting informed about how easily it was to obtain exotics and bam, no more complaints.
How can people be this stupid is beyond me.

"Fresh bread shipment incoming!"
"IT'LL BE POISONED!" "IT'LL BE ROTTEN AND ACID!" "IT'S GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE!"
*shipment arrives, it's actually fresh bread"

#377 Robsy128

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:59 PM

I wish people would get the carrot, choke on it, and then be beaten to death with the stick. This is ridiculous.

#378 Runkleford

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:05 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 21 November 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

It's funny because we have no info at all on how ascended will be obtained, what means of obtaining them will be added, what changes will be made... pretty much nothing.
Yet it seems we have a group of people who are already convinced - based on nothing - that it will be a grind, it will be a treadmill, blablabla.

Prophets of the apocalypse doomsaying again, just like 2 months ago this forum was filled with 100 complain threads about exotics.
Guess how that ended? With people L2Ping, getting informed about how easily it was to obtain exotics and bam, no more complaints.
How can people be this stupid is beyond me.

"Fresh bread shipment incoming!"
"IT'LL BE POISONED!" "IT'LL BE ROTTEN AND ACID!" "IT'S GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE!"
*shipment arrives, it's actually fresh bread"


You are obviously completely ignorant since we all know of the mystic forge recipes for making the ascendent back pieces and they require a lot of gold and grind. So yeah, it's not that we know nothing, it's YOU who knows nothing. How people can be this stupid is beyond me.

Edited by Runkleford, 21 November 2012 - 06:07 PM.


#379 Red_Falcon

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 21 November 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

You are obviously completely ignorant since we all know of the mystic forge recipes for making the ascendent back pieces and they require a lot of gold and grind. So yeah, it's not that we know nothing, it's YOU who knows nothing. How people can be this stupid is beyond me.

You are completely ignorant since Anet said there will be many other ways to aquire Ascended items.

Please inform yourself before posting embarassing bullshit.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 21 November 2012 - 07:34 PM.


#380 Own Age Myname

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:47 PM

Calm down kids, no need for insults.

#381 Wikid

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:49 PM

Gear Wars is really starting to bore me. I feel like I have to spend more time planning out how to get my armor then actually getting my armor. Game play is great until end game. I worked my main slowly through the game, working my way through everything. My alts are rushed through the game to level 80 so I can begin the long process of gear grinding. Especially sense Ascended armor is a must to combat Agony. Now I'm trying to find out how to combat the mental Agony that ANet is now providing to those that still would like to play the game. ANet stated they wanted to make a game that was fun to play. The ended up making a lot of hype but missed on the fun factor.

#382 BrotatoSoup

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:06 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 21 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

You are completely ignorant since Anet said there will be many other ways to aquire Ascended items.

Please inform yourself before posting embarassing bullshit.

You can expect for these alternative methods to require the same amount of time and effort. At best, having other options breaks the tedium but the overall process will still likely be grindy.

#383 Runkleford

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:42 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 21 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

You are completely ignorant since Anet said there will be many other ways to aquire Ascended items.

Please inform yourself before posting embarassing bullshit.

Yes they did say that but I'm pointing out how YOU said that we knew NOTHING about how Ascended items would be acquired. We know of at least two ways, one is through a recipe and one through drops. So yes you were wrong and you were ignorant. End of story.

Here's your quote again for embarrassment.


View PostRed_Falcon, on 21 November 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

It's funny because we have no info at all on how ascended will be obtained

Plus your unnecessary insult.

View PostRed_Falcon, on 21 November 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

How can people be this stupid is beyond me.

Edited by Runkleford, 21 November 2012 - 10:47 PM.


#384 BnJ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

View PostBrotatoSoup, on 21 November 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

You can expect for these alternative methods to require the same amount of time and effort. At best, having other options breaks the tedium but the overall process will still likely be grindy.

Exactly.

The recipes ARE indeed very grindy.  Do you really think these other alternate methods are going to be cake?

#385 Lordkrall

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:45 AM

View PostBrotatoSoup, on 21 November 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

You can expect for these alternative methods to require the same amount of time and effort. At best, having other options breaks the tedium but the overall process will still likely be grindy.

You mean just like how it would be grindy to get Exotic gear?

If (which is probable) we can craft and sell Ascended gear it should be quite easy to buy a set by simply playing the game a bit.

#386 Krazzar

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:06 AM

View Postraspberry jam, on 21 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

So, wait, when Chris Whiteside said this:
What he actually meant is that they will change existing rewards to have the same stats as legendaries have now, thus closing the stats gap in the "massive" jump that didn't previously even exist since legendaries had (and still have since they haven't even bumped them yet) as exotics, making the entire change in stats completely meaningless?

That is so damn convoluted that it almost actually can be what ANet is thinking. I mean, considering how they interpreted their own manifesto.

It has nothing to do with stats, progression does not mean stats. It's quite odd you would ignore that point since it's usually on regular rotation in your anti-structure rants. If you didn't know, legendary weapons are far more difficult and time consuming to obtain than exotics, Anet aims to add more tiers of items in the middle of "easy to get" exotic items and legendary items. That means you will be continually progressing through different tiers up to legendary items. The obvious problem is once players get exotic items their next step is to grind for legendary items, with new tiers there are more steps in between that are more easily obtained, that is goals that can actually be achieved and help people feel their characters are progressing through playing the game.

Edited by Krazzar, 22 November 2012 - 07:07 AM.


#387 Snapalope

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:10 AM

The thing that bothers me is that the entire thing is based on a stupid RNG.  The team I run with got to level 20 fractal and pretty much we are stuck there because we don't have enough agony resist to go on further.  So far only 1 person in our team has gotten an ascended ring.  Think about that, 1 person in 20 levels.

#388 Lordkrall

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

View PostSnapalope, on 22 November 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

The thing that bothers me is that the entire thing is based on a stupid RNG.  The team I run with got to level 20 fractal and pretty much we are stuck there because we don't have enough agony resist to go on further.  So far only 1 person in our team has gotten an ascended ring.  Think about that, 1 person in 20 levels.

6 levels, not 20.
You only get a chance for a ring on each even level starting from level 10.

Also keep in mind that you can get Ascended gear for infusion that is not rings via the Mystic Forge.

Edited by Lordkrall, 22 November 2012 - 10:13 AM.


#389 raspberry jam

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:52 AM

View PostKrazzar, on 22 November 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

It has nothing to do with stats, progression does not mean stats. It's quite odd you would ignore that point since it's usually on regular rotation in your anti-structure rants. If you didn't know, legendary weapons are far more difficult and time consuming to obtain than exotics, Anet aims to add more tiers of items in the middle of "easy to get" exotic items and legendary items. That means you will be continually progressing through different tiers up to legendary items. The obvious problem is once players get exotic items their next step is to grind for legendary items, with new tiers there are more steps in between that are more easily obtained, that is goals that can actually be achieved and help people feel their characters are progressing through playing the game.
If that's true then why doesn't ascended items have the same stats as exotics?

#390 BrotatoSoup

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:25 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 22 November 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

You mean just like how it would be grindy to get Exotic gear?

If (which is probable) we can craft and sell Ascended gear it should be quite easy to buy a set by simply playing the game a bit.

Quoting another post:

View PostShroomhead Fred, on 21 November 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

Exactly.

Do you really think these other alternate methods are going to be cake?

They've already set up a precedent. The alternatives will be based and balanced around the current method of acquiring ascended gear.

I can actually see it now...

ANet: So you want to craft Ascended stuff, huh? Great, we'll give you that option! But first you must create the recipe from the Mystic Forge. No biggie, you just need 50 Lodestones, 100 Crystals and 250 [T6 fine mats]. Now you want to craft the actual item? Great, that'll be 50 Ectos, 100 [T6 fine mats] and 50 [T6 craft mats]. Are you having fun yet?!





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