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Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

ascended grind gear-treadmill

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#421 Gremlin

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:47 AM

Its all a question of anet balancing the time/difficulty to get new gear.

Set it too low and we can all have it, too high and most will not even bother to try.

As long as I can "by playing the game" eventually get my hands on the gear I am happy.

If the only realistic way to do it is to either pay cash or grind one specific area endlessly then I will be unhappy.

The game needs to reward hard core and casual gamers and not alienate either group.

#422 Kymeric

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:18 PM

View PostTetan0, on 24 November 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

yeah right fill the gape but Legendaries are ONLY weapons so i don't buy it they just added it as carrot so people mindless grind what they also said were against.

Just to be clear, I wasn't agreeing with ANet that there was even a need to "bridge the gap" or that Ascended items are a good solution for that need.  Just stating that if they are going to bridge the gap between quick and very long term, they are going to have to take a while to get.

#423 Var

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

View PostWordsworth, on 25 November 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

Yeah, that's one way to get around the gating.

"L2P" - ANet.

No, I didn't say that. I said that he's not gated as you seemed to insinuate (nothing stops him from entering and attempting the content, there is no "you cannot ride unless you have this much agony" bar at the start of the dungeon that arbitrarily halts entrance); the challenge exists and the mechanic punishes failure (ever moreso the deeper you go). If you're friend is "up to the challenge" the game will not stop him, it will allow him to try and, if he's good enough, he will succeed. This is the definition of challenge. The fact that you have nothing better to say in reply... well, tally ho. It seems you weren't here to actually hold a discussion but to decry something you don't like.

PS: At the point in which agony becomes like the hammer of god at the first sign of failure, you have already reached all relevant "loot" offered by the dungeon (long before that, in fact, since 10 is as far as you need to go and agony at that point is hardly a problem for even pugs). After 10, you're in it for the challenge and the skins.

Edited by Var, 25 November 2012 - 06:05 PM.


#424 Wordsworth

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:32 PM

Hmm, well, let's see...

If you don't consider Agony to be an ever increasing gear check like ANet intended for it to be (and have flat out said so), then yeah, there's no problem. If you do, it' s a very clearly indicator that you're limited in your progress in the dungeon by a mechanic intended to punish those who simply have not or cannot invest in Ascended level items and Infusions. Or have simply lucked out with the RNG.

If the intent of Agony was for "challenge", then it would affect those with and without Infusions/Ascended gear the same way. It doesn't. The intent was to gate players who don't have appropriate GEAR, not skills. Period.  Conversely, the dungeon should wean you off Infusions and promote dodging, heals and other ways to mitigate Agony other than a gear check, rather than give you more Infusions... if the purpose of Agony was challenge.

I applaud the "L2P" solution though. It seems like half of this game is working around ANet's intended design.

Edited by Wordsworth, 25 November 2012 - 08:44 PM.


#425 Corvindi

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:54 PM

View PostVar, on 25 November 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Lotto numbers please.

Heh.  If I'm going to pay the retard tax, I'm going to spend 2 bucks at the gas station and try for real money, not some pixels.

View PostRedStar, on 25 November 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

They already said that new professions are something that they do not plan on adding (but who knows, maybe they will in the end) and I don't see how a new tier prevents them from working on other features...

Bad mistake, in my opinion.  It's all about their goofy sPvP esport dream, I guess.  Which is never going to happen anyway.

Edited by Corvindi, 25 November 2012 - 10:53 PM.


#426 RedStar

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:13 PM

View PostCorvindi, on 25 November 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Bad mistake, in my opinion.  It's all about their goofy sPvP esport dream, I guess.  Which is never going to happen anyway.

How is that a bad mistake ?

#427 Corvindi

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:15 PM

View PostRedStar, on 25 November 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

How is that a bad mistake ?

I know I would have shelled out $40 bucks for every new profession, plus another $40 for every new race.  To play at gambling with chests, though?  Hell no.  To shorten a grind for some dungeon hamster gear?  God no.  To stand around cooking in LA in a floppy chef's hat?  Please no.  And to pay for those tiny scale sPvP tournaments when WvW was so much fun?  Don't make me laugh.

Edited by Corvindi, 25 November 2012 - 11:16 PM.


#428 Lordkrall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:05 AM

View PostCorvindi, on 25 November 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Bad mistake, in my opinion.  It's all about their goofy sPvP esport dream, I guess.  Which is never going to happen anyway.

Or maybe because they learned from GW1 that the more professions they add the harder it will be to balance everything?

#429 Corvindi

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 26 November 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

Or maybe because they learned from GW1 that the more professions they add the harder it will be to balance everything?

Of course it will be.  But that is the nature of MMOs.  Balancing is never finished and it's never perfect anyway.

#430 Lordkrall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

View PostCorvindi, on 26 November 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Of course it will be.  But that is the nature of MMOs.  Balancing is never finished and it's never perfect anyway.

So why make it harder?

#431 raspberry jam

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

View PostMinu, on 24 November 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

Every time I see FoTM, all I see is Flavour of the Month.   What they should of done, to keep me happy, is improve the things in the game which added to its uniqueness....WvW for example.   What is the point pandering to a minority of the PVE elements of the population, who will, sooner or later leave anyway.  There are far, far better and more polished MMOs out there, offerering a better PVE experience, with all the gear treadmill your heart can desire, if that's your idea of fun of course.
I agree, the name of the dungeon is kind of... ironic.

I don't know why they did this, but now when you mention it... WvW could sure use improvement, but I don't think it's possible without changing the mode altogether.

#432 Corvindi

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:57 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 26 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

So why make it harder?

Because if they work hard and get it right they'll make lots of money off it?  Which was the idea, I thought.  Sell the things your players want and keep them happy.

Give value (in other words things we find fun and interesting) for our dollars instead of creating a grind then offering to shorten it with gems for gold. But hey, if gamers are stupid enough to spend their money shortcutting around grind, thus encouraging devs to keep giving us that, then we deserve what we get, which will be a steaming pile of crap.

#433 Lordkrall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:01 PM

View PostCorvindi, on 26 November 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Because if they work hard and get it right they'll make lots of money off it?  Which was the idea, I thought.  Sell the things your players want and keep them happy.

So you think they would make more money by possible hiring more people in order to work on balance than they would with hiring more people to do actual content?

The main reason (as far as I remember) for the to scrap dual-professions (they were supposed to be in the game from the start) was because it is a balancing nightmare.

Why create more work than needed?

What character type is not filled for that matter?

#434 Corvindi

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:15 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 26 November 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

So you think they would make more money by possible hiring more people in order to work on balance than they would with hiring more people to do actual content?

The main reason (as far as I remember) for the to scrap dual-professions (they were supposed to be in the game from the start) was because it is a balancing nightmare.

Why create more work than needed?

What character type is not filled for that matter?

I liked the Dervish, and yes I know other classes have incorporated some of that into their play, but none of them really play like a Dervish.

As for balancing, if they'd created new professions while working on the game but not sold them at release, they would have them already balanced (tweaking is required still for all classes as players find new ways to 'break' the balance, so that would change nothing).

As for why do it?  Because they want more money after release, that's why.  And if they wanted more of mine, they would have had new races and classes to buy a few months out, not this garbage grind with a gems for gold tie in.  I admit, what they're doing is easy compared to what they should do, and what I'm saying is, gamers should not reward cheap, easy tactics like this with our money, unless we want devs to throw even more of this nonsense our way.  And I don't.

#435 Lordkrall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:19 PM

View PostCorvindi, on 26 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

I liked the Dervish, and yes I know other classes have incorporated some of that into their play, but none of them really play like a Dervish.

As for balancing, if they'd created new professions while working on the game but not sold them at release, they would have them already balanced (tweaking is required still for all classes as players find new ways to 'break' the balance, so that would change nothing).

As for why do it?  Because they want more money after release, that's why.  And if they wanted more of mine, they would have had new races and classes to buy a few months out, not this garbage grind with a gems for gold tie in.  I admit, what they're doing is easy compared to what they should do, and what I'm saying is, gamers should not reward cheap, easy tactics like this with our money, unless we want devs to throw even more of this nonsense our way.  And I don't.




And yet the Dervish would never work in GW2 :)

Problem is that it is more or less impossible to do in-house balance testing for a new profession. It need large-scale in-game testing, otherwise all professions would have been perfectly balanced at release, right? Which never is the case.

As for getting more money: I am quite sure they would sell an expansion pack just as good if it did not have a new profession.
EotN sold quite well after all and it did not add any new profession.

People pay for new areas and new content, not new professions.

#436 AarodCutshot

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 26 November 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

And yet the Dervish would never work in GW2 :)

Problem is that it is more or less impossible to do in-house balance testing for a new profession. It need large-scale in-game testing, otherwise all professions would have been perfectly balanced at release, right? Which never is the case.

As for getting more money: I am quite sure they would sell an expansion pack just as good if it did not have a new profession.
EotN sold quite well after all and it did not add any new profession.

People pay for new areas and new content, not new professions.
alot of people hated eotn too said it was to short and all the armors looked the same.. After it was released alot of people quit lol heh... It was just grinding titles  for gw2

#437 Corvindi

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 26 November 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

And yet the Dervish would never work in GW2 :)

Problem is that it is more or less impossible to do in-house balance testing for a new profession. It need large-scale in-game testing, otherwise all professions would have been perfectly balanced at release, right? Which never is the case.

As for getting more money: I am quite sure they would sell an expansion pack just as good if it did not have a new profession.
EotN sold quite well after all and it did not add any new profession.

People pay for new areas and new content, not new professions.

They released new professions in Guild Wars, they can do it in Guild Wars 2.  I never said it was cheap or easy, but as far as I'm concerned, if gamers want no subs and game devs want money beyond the box purchase and yearly expansions, things need to change.  Because what they're offering now in hopes of making money between expacs is just unacceptable.

#438 Lordkrall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:35 PM

View PostCorvindi, on 26 November 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

They released new professions in Guild Wars, they can do it in Guild Wars 2.  I never said it was cheap or easy, but as far as I'm concerned, if gamers want no subs and game devs want money beyond the box purchase and yearly expansions, things need to change.  Because what they're offering now in hopes of making money between expacs is just unacceptable.

You really think they would, if ever, add professions outside of expansions/add-ons? It would take loads of time and resources to complete a new profession and adding that as a part of a regular content upgrade (even if payed) would most likely not work out well.

What if only 5% of the players are interested in it? That would mean only 5% of the players would buy it and that would most likely mean a rather big loss from ArenaNets point of view. Expansion packs does tend to come less often and consist of more real additions and therefore more interesting for most people.

#439 Corvindi

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:22 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 26 November 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

You really think they would, if ever, add professions outside of expansions/add-ons? It would take loads of time and resources to complete a new profession and adding that as a part of a regular content upgrade (even if payed) would most likely not work out well.

What if only 5% of the players are interested in it? That would mean only 5% of the players would buy it and that would most likely mean a rather big loss from ArenaNets point of view. Expansion packs does tend to come less often and consist of more real additions and therefore more interesting for most people.

I doubt only %5 would be interested, but without the marketing information, I can only say what I would be willing to pay for.  I also would have paid a sub for this game if there was no gems for gold, but it's possible the grind would then have been introduced to keep people subbed and that wouldn't have worked on me, I would have played alts until I got bored, then unsubbed.

Which is still preferable to the way they seem to want to make money, which is to introduce grind, then let players pay to avoid some of it.  Buy to Play was supposed to be this great alternative to a sub fee, but not with that revenue model tacked on.

Edit:  However, it does have short term benefits for those of us who refuse to do the Ascended grind.  We get to play for free as long as we are willing to avoid activities that put us in competition with other players, either directly in WvW or in trying to get teams.  While for me that means my time with the game will be shorter and my wallet permanently closed, it is free continued access for as long as I feel like soloing alts.

Edited by Corvindi, 26 November 2012 - 05:26 PM.






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