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Ascended items appear to require an insane grind...

ascended grind gear-treadmill

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#91 Corvindi

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:09 AM

View PostExpherious, on 16 November 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Sounds a lot to me like people complaining about the challenge. But then again I guess Anet can't make everyone happy. I think everyone is just focusing on the negative. :D

I have a yard outback with dog crap scattered everywhere.  Epic mounds of the stuff.  It would be a major challenge to clean it all up, especially if you manage not to step in any of it.

Here is a shovel and a trash bag, let me know when you're done and I'll reward you with a shiny new pooper scooper 3000!  :D

Just because something is 'challenging' and rewards you with something new doesn't mean it's fun.

Edited by Corvindi, 16 November 2012 - 04:10 AM.


#92 NuclearDonut

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:10 AM

View PostManzana, on 16 November 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

Two months in, and all we get are new game modes, a new map, and rings.  Ugh, dropping the ball on us here Anet.  Where is that very specific skin that I wanted to see? D:<
Well there aren't any new game modes, the new PvP map is still just conquest. If they spent their time on new armor models instead of a pointless tier of new gear to please the mindless MMO drones then I would be happy. I never said anything about being very specific either. Also, your post literally had no point but to flare up an argument, the very definition of a troll post. I guess it worked though, so props to you on a solid trolling. Good day sir, and if you're not trolling me: think before you speak/type.

#93 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:11 AM

View PostCorvindi, on 16 November 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

I have a yard outback with dog crap scattered everywhere.  Epic mounds of the stuff.  It would be a major challenge to clean it all up, especially if you manage not to step in any of it.

Here is a shovel and a trash bag, let me know when you're done and I'll reward you with a shiny new pooper scooper 3000!  :D

Just because something is 'challenging' and rewards you with something new doesn't mean it's fun.

Hint:  The pooper scooper 3000 is to clean up the next pile:

http://www.reddit.co..._german_forums/

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 16 November 2012 - 04:11 AM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#94 Corvindi

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:12 AM

View PostRabidusIncendia, on 16 November 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Hint:  The pooper scooper 3000 is to clean up the next pile:

http://www.reddit.co..._german_forums/

Yep, cause those dogs never will stop pooping!

#95 Xodiak

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:13 AM

No problem with this at all. I would like something hard to achieve and not have everyone with about 5g spent on the TP and a few weeks of gaming walking around in the best gear (like they can now). Or...I can hit 80 and craft full Exotics with stuff I picked up while leveling.. not much of a challenge there eh? Wow, we all have the same stuff with not much effort.. hooray?

I want gear and content progression that everyone cannot get without much effort (like it is now), I want ways to stand out and show who is better at completion.. I'm all for this change on every level!

#96 Corvindi

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:16 AM

View PostXodiak, on 16 November 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

No problem with this at all. I would like something hard to achieve and not have everyone with about 5g spent on the TP and a few weeks of gaming walking around in the best gear (like they can now). Or...I can hit 80 and craft full Exotics with stuff I picked up while leveling.. not much of a challenge there eh? Wow, we all have the same stuff with not much effort.. hooray?

I want gear and content progression that everyone cannot get without much effort (like it is now), I want ways to stand out and show who is better at completion.. I'm all for this change on every level!

Well, congrats, you and others like you got your way, much to my surprise and the surprise of a lot of other people who bought GW2 in part or entirely because we did not want to endlessly grind alongside people with your mindset.

#97 Manzana

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:18 AM

View PostNuclearDonut, on 16 November 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

Well there aren't any new game modes, the new PvP map is still just conquest. If they spent their time on new armor models instead of a pointless tier of new gear to please the mindless MMO drones then I would be happy. I never said anything about being very specific either. Also, your post literally had no point but to flare up an argument, the very definition of a troll post. I guess it worked though, so props to you on a solid trolling. Good day sir, and if you're not trolling me: think before you speak/type.

Perhaps not you specifically, but lets hypothetically say that Anet did release a new set of armor.  Odds are, many will be happy and not say a thing.  Then you have those "omg moar butt-cape" comparisons, so on and so forth, and be utterly unhappy and make a huge hullabaloo.  Besides, Ascended gear does have new skins, those pieces are just not released yet.

So, to recap, we've had a huge update on a game with no sub fee within three months of release, and yet there are still those who find room to complain.  Who really should be thinking before typing?

#98 Xodiak

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:22 AM

View PostCorvindi, on 16 November 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

Well, congrats, you and others like you got your way, much to my surprise and the surprise of a lot of other people who bought GW2 in part or entirely because we did not want to endlessly grind alongside people with your mindset.

Well, don't be upset.. you have to look at the landscape of MMO's since GW1 came out. How a large population of people come to expect certain progression levels in different avenues.. whether that is gear, boss battles, content clears..there has to be something more than the fashion show that GW2 appeared to be from the outset.
What do you think keeps a lot of people coming back once they already have the best gear? Honestly, getting the best gear is easy in this game.. then what? How long do PvP and WvW last? What about WvW when it's the last few days and there's no way you can win? I can say from my server that the population drops dramatically on the obvious losing side..then what are those people to do?

#99 NuclearDonut

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:25 AM

View PostManzana, on 16 November 2012 - 04:18 AM, said:

Perhaps not you specifically, but lets hypothetically say that Anet did release a new set of armor.  Odds are, many will be happy and not say a thing.  Then you have those "omg moar butt-cape" comparisons, so on and so forth, and be utterly unhappy and make a huge hullabaloo.  Besides, Ascended gear does have new skins, those pieces are just not released yet.

So, to recap, we've had a huge update on a game with no sub fee within three months of release, and yet there are still those who find room to complain.  Who really should be thinking before typing?
Am I complaining about the update? I'm saying that the new tier is a waste of time. All it's done is alienate the loyal fans and for what? A few extra days of end-game? The hardcores are still gonna get ascended gear in one day and everyone else is going to feel betrayed because ANet directly lied to them. I wasn't even talking about any of that, I was talking about how ANet should keep focusing on cosmetics. Sure I'm happy that we get new content, but I'm unhappy with what the new content is and how it's being designed/implemented. I'm sure most people can agree that the game would be better off if this update never happened. Also, because of the way you started this whole thing, you don't get the right to make a sassy comeback and look cool. You just look like a *. I already used my sassy comeback so I can't say anymore without looking like a *.

#100 Corvindi

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:28 AM

View PostXodiak, on 16 November 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

Well, don't be upset.. you have to look at the landscape of MMO's since GW1 came out. How a large population of people come to expect certain progression levels in different avenues.. whether that is gear, boss battles, content clears..there has to be something more than the fashion show that GW2 appeared to be from the outset.
What do you think keeps a lot of people coming back once they already have the best gear? Honestly, getting the best gear is easy in this game.. then what? How long do PvP and WvW last? What about WvW when it's the last few days and there's no way you can win? I can say from my server that the population drops dramatically on the obvious losing side..then what are those people to do?

WvW has issues for a lot of servers, no doubt.  Also no doubt grinding is popular with a lot of players.  But of course those of us who don't enjoy hours upon hours of grinding dungeons are upset.  Why wouldn't we be?  This game was supposed to be different.  Frankly, if I'm going to do dungeons, I'm going to play WoW.  Blizzard at least has a convenient dungeon finder.

#101 Wordsworth

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:39 AM

http://www.pcgamesn....nfinite-dungeon

Am I reading this right? 500 Fractal tokens (Gift of Ascension) for one piece of ascended armor in the mystic forge?

An exotic backpiece is 1350 fractal tokens, used as a precursor for an Ascended?

So... That must mean tokens come pretty fast, right?

Edited by Wordsworth, 16 November 2012 - 04:42 AM.


#102 ilr

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:41 AM

View PostXodiak, on 16 November 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

I would like something hard to achieve and not have everyone with about 5g spent on the TP and a few weeks of gaming walking around in the best gear (like they can now).
Then why the hell did you buy a game with Guild Wars written on it??

We all have to change OUR standards (and Anet's own Manifesto) because you have an elitist complex overreaching personal opinions  about who deserves max gear??

Edited by ilr, 16 November 2012 - 04:47 AM.


#103 Darkobra

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:46 AM

View PostXodiak, on 16 November 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

No problem with this at all. I would like something hard to achieve and not have everyone with about 5g spent on the TP and a few weeks of gaming walking around in the best gear (like they can now). Or...I can hit 80 and craft full Exotics with stuff I picked up while leveling.. not much of a challenge there eh? Wow, we all have the same stuff with not much effort.. hooray?

I want gear and content progression that everyone cannot get without much effort (like it is now), I want ways to stand out and show who is better at completion.. I'm all for this change on every level!

Which of the Legendaries did you get?

#104 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:51 AM

View PostWordsworth, on 16 November 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

http://www.pcgamesn....nfinite-dungeon

Am I reading this right? 500 Fractal tokens (Gift of Ascension) for one piece of ascended armor in the mystic forge?

An exotic backpiece is 1350 fractal tokens, used as a precursor for an Ascended?

So... That must mean tokens come pretty fast, right?
Oh no, uber grind waits you.

#105 Bloggi

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:52 AM

View PostNuclearDonut, on 16 November 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

All it's done is alienate the loyal fans and for what? A few extra days of end-game? The hardcores are still gonna get ascended gear in one day...

Precisely. It is just impossible to bring out quality content that the most hardcore of players wouldn't burn through in a matter of hours or days. So we have a bunch of folk that are impossible to please. I reckon there are many, many more players who are really enjoying all the game has to offer and nowhere near completing everything. These players have been quietly (and happily) cruising along until the Ascended gear 18-wheeler came and hit them like a truck. No, make that a train.

So now we have previously very happy customers coming out of the woodwork to voice their concerns. Very much expected and Anet should have seen this coming.

In life, we can please 80% of our customers. 10% will never be pleased no matter how hard you try. 10% wouldn't give a damn regardless of what you did, they come to you out of familiarity or necessity. Focus on the 80% that you can please, for goodness sake.

#106 n00854180t

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:57 AM

Also, for those calling into question my "will" to grind or whatever, I am happily grinding my way to Twilight. I have over 300 ectos in the bank, 90g (spent ~60g on random junk including stuff on Halloween), a fair amount of materials for Might/Magic gifts (>40 of each T6 mat, 250 C. Dust, 250 Ancient Bones), most of my Ascalonian Tears, 100 Ori Ingots, already spent 10g for Gift of Metal recipe *and* crafted it (250x Ori Ingot, Mithril Ingot, Platinum Ingot, Darksteel Ingot), and over 300k karma stored and another 100k in Jugs, plus 60k spent on Obisidian Shards, as well as 21 Mystic Clovers.

I can and do grind just fine. I still don't want to do the *ing Fractals of the Mist for 25 hours to get ONE component for ONE item out of 12+ items I'm eventually going to need.

Edited by n00854180t, 16 November 2012 - 04:59 AM.


#107 Resolve

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:58 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 15 November 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

There is no winning with MMO gamers.
If there is a treadmill, the game sucks cause it's a wow clone.
If there is no treadmill, the game sucks cause there is no endgame.

You do realise  they are 2 different groups of people right? The majority of the pro treadmill people already left.

#108 pswendel

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:59 AM

View PostCorvindi, on 16 November 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

Several people have suggested that, if there must be a grind beyond exotics that isn't for cosmetic purposes only, then the grind should be doable through WvW, Karma farming, and crafting as well as through dungeons.  This is a reasonable compromise between those who want stat progression and those who don't.

Although admittedly it still makes life tougher for people with less time to play than their friends, since they'll need to catch up to do the latest content.

Another suggestion for WvW was to make the badge gear equivalent to Ascended or to copy the sPvP equalization of gear over to WvW so that PvP isn't affected by new gear tiers.

Another great thing about these posts is how incredibly un-read and un-learned everybody is.

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post721451

Quote

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director


#109 Xodiak

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:00 AM

View PostCorvindi, on 16 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

WvW has issues for a lot of servers, no doubt.  Also no doubt grinding is popular with a lot of players.  But of course those of us who don't enjoy hours upon hours of grinding dungeons are upset.  Why wouldn't we be?  This game was supposed to be different.  Frankly, if I'm going to do dungeons, I'm going to play WoW.  Blizzard at least has a convenient dungeon finder.
I'd rather do dungeons in Rift. Let me ask you this.. let's say you hit 80 (not hard to do with minimal time), and you have the best gear (easy enough to get through so many channels).. and knowing the current dungeons have a terrible ROI (return on "time" invested).. what are you doing in the game? What are you doing if you're Anet to keep people interested? To keep people around and to gain new people?

View Postilr, on 16 November 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

Then why the hell did you buy a game with Guild Wars written on it??

We all have to change OUR standards (and Anet's own Manifesto) because you have an elitist complex overreaching personal opinions  about who deserves max gear??
Whoa.. what's with the hostilities?
Have you not seen a change in the landscape of MMO's from the time GW1 came out til now? You do understand that GW2 is NOT GW1..and there's a LARGE market of gamers out here for ANet to grab.. so why not grab them? I ask you this.. if a person can get the best gear in the game at 80 - very quickly after hitting 80, and without much effort.. what's to keep them playing? The dungeon rewards are terrible, the ROI for time is abysmal. We know about WvW issues that can and do pop up.. so then what?
I ask you this, what would you do to keep the players interested and gaming long term?

#110 pswendel

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:02 AM

View PostResolve, on 16 November 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:


You do realise  they are 2 different groups of people right? The majority of the pro treadmill people already left.

Where is your evidence to back up such claims of correlation? Seriously, people. Just speaking words doesn't create truths.

#111 Sans

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:04 AM

You guys make up "facts" in you mind, then get so angry/concerned/flustered that you have to make a thread about it.

Why can't you guys just wait for real facts.

#112 Runkleford

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:05 AM

View PostXodiak, on 16 November 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

I would like something hard to achieve

Hard to achieve except you need better stats to achieve it right? I've been saying all along that it's not really challenging if it requires gear that gives better stats and/or resistances. The whole claim about wanting challenge by the gear grind crowd is a sham.

#113 Xodiak

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:05 AM

View PostDarkobra, on 16 November 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Which of the Legendaries did you get?

None.. don't care to. Don't see the time invested getting a mostly-fashion item being worth the very low incremental upgrade over my current exotic weapon(s).. same argument you could make about the Ascended gear vs Exotics...oddly enough.

#114 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:07 AM

View PostXodiak, on 16 November 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

Have you not seen a change in the landscape of MMO's from the time GW1 came out til now? You do understand that GW2 is NOT GW1.

Arenanet used the title to get their Guild wars players to play this new game.  It was a good idea, it got them lots of intiial money, but they're about to find out what happens when you betray those people.


View PostSans, on 16 November 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

You guys make up "facts" in you mind, then get so angry/concerned/flustered that you have to make a thread about it.

Why can't you guys just wait for real facts.

Funny how we have proven thrice over, literally, to people saying this exact thing, that not only were our fears justified they were about 50 times worse.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 16 November 2012 - 05:08 AM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#115 garethporlest22

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:12 AM

View PostAbsintheminded, on 16 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

A few people watch the manifesto and think they no longer need to work for gear? Seriously, those complaining about getting these pieces of gear, how much GW1 did you play? How many sets of Prestige armor did you get? And how different do you really think the ascended gear is?
I got quite a few sets of Obsidian armor and a number of prestige sets.  Some I got within a couple days of playing, some took me months.

The big difference is, every thing I did in Guild Wars to get those armor sets was fun.  It's not fun in Guild Wars 2.

#116 Xodiak

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:12 AM

View PostRabidusIncendia, on 16 November 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

Arenanet used the title to get their Guild wars players to play this new game.  It was a good idea, it got them lots of intiial money, but they're about to find out what happens when you betray those people.

People here keep saying that (about 50 people or so on these forums).. I don't see Anet suffering one bit though. For starters, there's no monthly fee, the lions share of the money is already had. There are no other MMO's for people that dislike top gear chases/content chases to play.. what.. Rift? WoW? Hardly. Again, this game costs nothing to play. These people (the very few that leave) will probably buy any expansion and probably come back in for any major content upgrade. I highly doubt any sizable or noticeable amount of people will quit for good over this.
also- nobody really knows exactly what's going on.. it's a lot of chicken little, the sky is falling speculation without hard evidence.. yet.

We can revisit this topic after we observe and quantify the gear additions.

#117 Darkobra

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:12 AM

View PostXodiak, on 16 November 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

None

I already knew the answer to that. Nothing to work for but won't work towards something to work for.

#118 Resolve

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:14 AM

View Postpswendel, on 16 November 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

Where is your evidence to back up such claims of correlation? Seriously, people. Just speaking words doesn't create truths.

Uh why would they stay? There was no treadmill. Do you not remember all the complaining about it, and (them)having nothing to do at max level? In my gaming community a lot of people quit soon after 80.

This is WHY anet are doing this. Do you honestly not understand?

Edited by Resolve, 16 November 2012 - 05:40 AM.


#119 Jason Seven

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:35 AM

View PostXekk, on 16 November 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

Precisely. It is just impossible to bring out quality content that the most hardcore of players wouldn't burn through in a matter of hours or days. So we have a bunch of folk that are impossible to please. I reckon there are many, many more players who are really enjoying all the game has to offer and nowhere near completing everything. These players have been quietly (and happily) cruising along until the Ascended gear 18-wheeler came and hit them like a truck. No, make that a train.

So now we have previously very happy customers coming out of the woodwork to voice their concerns. Very much expected and Anet should have seen this coming.

In life, we can please 80% of our customers. 10% will never be pleased no matter how hard you try. 10% wouldn't give a damn regardless of what you did, they come to you out of familiarity or necessity. Focus on the 80% that you can please, for goodness sake.
It might be impossible but these players, the most hardcore as you call them, are the only ones who actually count in the end. If a game, especially an MMO, fails to please this crowd then it's going to be mediocre at best. Indeed, ArenaNet did very well know that this would upset their tiny playerbase and that's exactly why they did it. Believe it or not, but this is their way of showing their so called "loyal" playerbase what they are actually worth to them in the grand scheme of things. Even a blind man can see who ArenaNet wants to play their game and it's certainly not their former customers. Pleasing the 80% is easy but the other 20% are what actually counts. GW2 is already on life support as it is, this was a very necessary change in direction and might just be in time for them to expand on this idea to bring in more of those 20%. After all, if ArenaNet had been satisfied with their former playerbase, then why did they create an entirely new game? Because they couldn't continue working on GW1? Because they wanted to give back to their fans? Dream on. More money, that's the sole and only true reason. Yet, more money cannot be acquired with the same exact amount of customers. They need new customers and a lot of them.

#120 The_Tree_Branch

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:16 AM

View PostGilles VI, on 15 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

First everybody whines dungeons are to hardcore, now they whine dungeons are to easy and there is no end-game, and now when Anet adds "end-game" like in other MMO's you whine again??

Maybe learn what the whining is about before you pop by. Plenty of end-game they could have added without adding another tier of armor with + stats above exotics. They kept stating that grind would be for skins, not for stats. Terrible direction thats been taken. I had a lot of hope for the direction of this game after Act 2 during Halloween. The addition of Ascension armor and TERRIBLE skill updates has shaken that quite a bit. I've been a fan of GW since day 1 of the original. This is disappointing.





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