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Elementalist changes in the 11/15 patch


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#61 bdatty

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:57 PM

I didn't know so much people relied on EA, sucks for you guys xD

#62 Falcon07

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

View PostCruzzi, on 16 November 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

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If they wanted people to use them, maybe they should make the skills scale so that they'd be worth losing access to the rest of your skills along with an utility slot. This change doesn't do it, the weapons are still very much one trick ponies (aoe blind for hammer, confusion storm for bow, daze/invuln for shield, burning for axe) that just aren't worth it in most situations in pve and pretty much never in pvp.



We expected them to not leave the grandmaster trait for arcana as "cast a 1000 point heal around you when you dodge in water element every 10 seconds". There probably wouldn't be more than a few whines if they had enforced a 10-second for the blast finishers or so on. If they had made the dodge effects actually mean a damn in exchange for losing the blasts, there'd be a lot of whines, but still a lot less than what we have now and we'd have a useable trait. Instead we now have another weak trait filling up Arcana, which we nevertheless are nearly forced to spec in because of how the elementalist class mechanics work.

My real issue with the evasive arcana "fix" is that they give us nothing in return for a huge nerf. I didn't consider my ele that powerful even with the blasts, but it had a hell of a lot of group utility possibilities and was interesting to play. Now with most of that utility gone, if you were min/maxing a group, why on earth would you take an ele over another class? Probably going to mostly play my engineer and warrior for the coming weeks while I try to figure out an answer to that.


hey i'm not defending the fact that they have made ele's very weak. they have done that. i'm just saying there were some definite clues that the blas finishers coul dhav ebeen a bug. the biggest clue being that even when the spells wer eon cd the blast was still occuring, second being that nowher ein any of the tooltips was blast finisher mentioned. i really think we shoudl be given a ranged blast finisher besides eruption that can trigger these combo fields.

#63 Murmer

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

View Postbdatty, on 16 November 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

I didn't know so much people relied on EA, sucks for you guys xD

Maybe instead of posting a smart-ass reply, you could actually post alternatives. Thus your post would have more substance, then making you appear as a jerk.

#64 Bloggi

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:18 PM

All I can say is this: for the folk that haven't had their builds rendered to the equivalent of being impotent, be happy, for now.

On the other hand, the build I play could now use some changes. It's crippled and less fun but not useless. Just needs a change of playstyle, a quick change of one or two traits and a utility. At the moment the only other class I can claim to have played to some degree is the necro. And I'm starting to debate if we're at a risk of seeing pigeon-holing in elementalists like it appears to be with the necro.

It is actually good to encourage a greater diversity of builds rather than kill a few with adjustments. If something is deemed OP in PvP for example, then it's logical enough to create a PvP version of the trait/ skill/ rune etc, which they have now done in some cases. That way the bunch of us that only do PvE can still enjoy what we play.

Ultimately, I do not wish to be forced into using something that's 'cookie cutter'. And one build that is considered 'the best' by an individual is not necessarily the right one for somebody else. I'd be happier looking at skills and traits with an open mind and experimenting with various builds till I find something that is both fun and effective to use, and suitable for my playstyle.

#65 Rossa Pera

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:16 AM

View PostFenice_86, on 16 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

"explore other options" ?! Like what? Rushing around with a lightning hammer or a flaming axe? is that what a MAGE is supposed to be/do?

Thank you! I'm glad to see someone else said this. I think it's asinine that the lightning hammer build is pointed to as being the 'answer' whenever the subject of Elementalists being weak compared to other classes is debated. After this set of nerfs there is no reason any anyone would want to play an Elementalist unless they like putting in four times the effort as other classes for the same damage and/or effect. I feel it's clear Anet doesn't know what they want to do with Elementalist at this point, maybe after one of the two developers decide to actually play one from level 1-80 and grind exotics the class might get looked at more closely.

#66 Murmer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:16 AM

I think the problem with this patch, is that the people talking about "staff support being unaffected", are missing the point totally. People who went with risk builds, that rewarded high damage bursts, and such, have lost so much surviveability that it's barely worth playing anymore. Life in GW2 involves more then just running dungeons. Our PUG ability wasn't that good to begin with even with staff. Now it's pretty much reduced to only staff if you want to go power/precision, and even then...

Staff's damage potential is pretty good *in a group*. Outside of it, you suffer badly as solo. D/D had the ability to be solo, and do *really* well. With Staff? When you're running around maps and such, it takes longer to kill things then with D/D. Now D/D doesn't really have the durability it used to ~and~ it can't kill on a dime like it used to. This makes it even harder to run with them in dungeons if you're going for damage.

Typically, when I do things... I want to deal damage. I want to deal significant damage while giving alright support. Because I'm not running dungeons all the time. I'm out in the world doing events with friends. In that respect, D/D was a lot better for me. I killed things much more quickly then now with the staff.

I don't have the funds to purchase new exotic equipment... and I won't for a long time... so I'm stuck running around with power/precision gear, with a bit of vite, with a staff... kind of awkward.

#67 dragonphlu

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 16 November 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

Of course it has been tested.

Also Jon Peters said in the ranger thread why eles always get nerfed: They only have 2 people working on class balance. One plays thief/guardian and the other mesmer/warrior.

Wait, one of them plays mesmer? Then why did they decide to nerf phantasms all together by making them LoS and vulnerable to blind/dodge/aegis/block/etc? At least, elementalists can still utilize other skills, but phantasms are in every two-handed and off-hand weapons; and there's only two utility phantasms. We pretty much lost a good chunk of our dps/control/support.

While I am sad that EA got nerfed, I noticed several professions got nerfed besides mesmers and elementalists, but I can't believe that one of the 2 people balancing professions plays a mesmer. >_<

Edit: No, I'm not bashing anything. I'm just rather mind=blown that one of them plays a mesmer and yet, the profession got hit with a giant nerf bat to one of our core mechanics.

Edited by dragonphlu, 18 November 2012 - 06:47 AM.


#68 Diogo Silva

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:53 AM

So, a mage is not meant to conjure magical weapons, but they're meant to roll into fields like a ninja?

Honestly, I've used EA a lot, but I never depended on it. Speccing on arcana/ water/ (earth) and then expecting large might stacks is just crazy. Those are mostly defensive speccs. They're meant to survive and kill slowly, which they do with or without EA's blast finishers, or at least I've been having success with them without relying on EA. Yeah, I know our fire and air traits are not as good, but if we ever want them to buff our power builds, it's in those traits where they should start with.

About the mesmer nerfs, they make sense. Illusions were no reason for why Mesmers should have unfair protection to blind/ dodge/ block/ etc compared to other classes. It just made Mesmers more mindless, because 1/3 or 1/2 of their weapon skills were unaffected by control.

Edited by Diogo Silva, 18 November 2012 - 10:54 AM.


#69 Raif89

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:56 PM

This new patch kinda blows. I never really used the blast effects of the EA due to not being really able to get the roll properly in my ring of fire, but it was nice to use with other players combo fields. My playstyle (D/D) is hardly effected by it, but for staff? If i ever switched to staff it was primarily for that. Sucks a lot.

Honestly was hoping for some sort of cooldown on it (already has one imho, not being able to roll all the time and can only have triggered it 1 every 10 seconds for each element) but not this. Was also hoping for a buff to damage. I shouldn't only be doing 5k fire grabs/7-8k churning earth with 25 stacks of might...... My warrior does 3x that with 25 stacks of might..... Especially considering how finicky fire grab is and how easy it is to miss churning earth.

Was also hoping for a fix to CE with that channel bug, where if you are interrupted while channeling it, the skill goes on full cooldown as if you used it. Ridiculous.

I still love my elementalist and will keep playing it as my main, but come on.

Edited by Raif89, 18 November 2012 - 02:56 PM.


#70 dragonphlu

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:17 AM

View PostDiogo Silva, on 18 November 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

So, a mage is not meant to conjure magical weapons, but they're meant to roll into fields like a ninja?

Honestly, I've used EA a lot, but I never depended on it. Speccing on arcana/ water/ (earth) and then expecting large might stacks is just crazy. Those are mostly defensive speccs. They're meant to survive and kill slowly, which they do with or without EA's blast finishers, or at least I've been having success with them without relying on EA. Yeah, I know our fire and air traits are not as good, but if we ever want them to buff our power builds, it's in those traits where they should start with.

About the mesmer nerfs, they make sense. Illusions were no reason for why Mesmers should have unfair protection to blind/ dodge/ block/ etc compared to other classes. It just made Mesmers more mindless, because 1/3 or 1/2 of their weapon skills were unaffected by control.

After rereading what I posted earlier, I realized I worded it completely wrong, so I apologize, and that would also explain your response. What you said, I agree. Dodging/blocking/stunning/etc. should work against illusions' attacks. Preventing the mesmer from summoning his phantasm is also understandable too, so I take back what I said regarding of those as well as the mind-blown section. The part that is a bit annoying currently with phantasms is the LoS. Certain elevation changees cause an "obstruct" text and the phantasm summoning skills goes into complete cooldown (though I'm sure there are other profession skills that have this problem too, so it's not just mesmers'). I said a bit annoying, but it's no biggie since I just need to make sure I got a clear view at the target. So, again, I'm sorry for the confusion.

Getting back on topic, I never did tried EA except recently with my fresh 80 elementalist. I was more into conjured weapons and glyphs prior. The times that I did tried EA, there were dodges that I didn't mean to cause EA to trigger. That was what I assumed the fix was. It still works every 10 secs per attunement, at least.

I do wonder if the buffed conjured weapons would make conjure builds even more useful?

#71 Tacticalgrace

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:06 AM

I specced EA because it was undeniably good but I didn't enjoy the playstyle it produced; dodging to produce spell effects constantly feels daft to me, so for my part I'm not too bothered by it being nerfed. Dodging to evade attacks intuitively makes more sense.

As for conjures I think Anet got too ambitious with the number of skill bars and will always have trouble balancing them against the base weaponsets.




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