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November 15 Patch notes/changes for Engineers


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#1 Kamatsu

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:33 PM

Well, the patch notes are up. Time to go over them and see what effect they will have...

Engineer
  • Elixir
    • Elixir X: This skill now only requires one cast to transform the user.
    • Toss Elixir R: This skill’s recharge is increased from 85 seconds to 120 seconds.
    • Elixir S: This skill is now improved by the Alchemy trait Fast-Acting Elixirs.
  • Tool Kit
    • Box of Nails: This skill now shows its proper area of effect.
    • Gear Shield: This skill now blocks for an extra second.
    • Magnet: This skill’s range has been doubled.
  • Grenades
    • The projectile speed of all grenades has been increased by 10-15%.
    • Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.
    • Shrapnel Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 15% in PvP only.
    • Freeze Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.
    • Grenade Barrage: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only. It also now works correctly with the Explosives trait Grenadier while underwater.
  • Turrets
    • Smoke Screen: This skill’s graphic has been updated to show the area of the screen. It now pulses every 2 seconds for 6 seconds instead of every second for 5 seconds. This makes it more effective against enemies using attacks at normal speeds but prevents it from being abused to shut down quick-attacking enemies completely.
    • Automatic Fire: Increased the duration of this skill’s Overcharge by 100% on Harpoon Turret and 25% on Rifle Turret.
    • Electrified Net: Increased the velocity of the Electrified Net by 100%.
    • Thump: Increased the damage of the Overcharged attack by 25%.
  • Bomb Kit, Med Kit, Tool Kit, and Elixir Gun: These skills can now be equipped in the air.
  • All kits can be stowed in the air now.
  • Toss Elixir C: This skill’s cooldown will be set from 60 seconds to 30 seconds when underwater.
  • Elixir Gun’s Fumigate: This skill will now be cancelled when using other skills on the weapon to improve responsiveness.
  • Rocket Turret: This turret can now be detonated underwater.
  • Power Wrench: This trait now applies to Gear Shield and Magnet.
  • Incendiary Powder: This trait now states that it can only trigger once every 3 seconds.
  • Elixir U and Elixir C: These skills have had outdated skill facts removed.
  • Potent Elixirs: This skill no longer grants improper boon durations.
  • Elixir B: This skill grants fury, retaliation, and swiftness for 10 seconds base, with might being applied for 30 seconds base.
  • Smoke Bomb: This skill’s radius has been reduced to 180 from 240 when traited. Smoke Bomb is now active for 4 seconds, pulsing every 2. This change also affects the Autodefense Bomb Dispenser trait.
  • Homing Torpedo: This skill is now a small projectile combo finisher.
  • Retreating Grapple: This skill is now a projectile combo finisher.
  • Timed Charge: This skill is now a projectile combo finisher.
  • Net Wall: This skill is now a projectile combo finisher.
  • Harpoon Turret: This turret will now spawn at the engineer when the Deployable Turrets trait is equipped.

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#2 doooknoookem

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:43 PM

Did not expect a grenades buff for PvE and a nerf for PvP. Grenade kit isn't the easiest to use in PvP, while in PvE, it's probably our strongest option.

Edited by doooknoookem, 15 November 2012 - 11:45 PM.


#3 J0ttem

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:07 AM

Oh wow, none of the fixes are actually relevant, what a joke.
I guess I was expecting too much, such a disappointment.

Edited by J0ttem, 16 November 2012 - 12:14 AM.


#4 Global_GW2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:11 AM

Disappointing.

So as a grenade focused Engineer in WvW, I will be doing 10-15% less damage, but should be a bit more accurate with the 10-15% increase in projectile speed. I see this as trading burst for potentially more damage over time. I'm not sure how this will play out in practice, but I can't help but see this as anything less than a nerf.

I do like the doubled range on Magnet though. Maybe we'll be able to pull players down off of walls now.

The rest is pretty *yawn* in my book, with none of the changes I was hoping to see.

Edit - Seems to be some mixed reports on whether "PVP only" applies to WvW zones.

Edited by Global_GW2, 16 November 2012 - 12:33 AM.


#5 Isti

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:33 AM

View PostGlobal_GW2, on 16 November 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

Disappointing.

So as a grenade focused Engineer in WvW, I will be doing 10-15% less damage, but should be a bit more accurate with the 10-15% increase in projectile speed. I see this as trading burst for potentially more damage over time. I'm not sure how this will play out in practice, but I can't help but see this as anything less than a nerf.

I do like the doubled range on Magnet though. Maybe we'll be able to pull players down off of walls now.

The rest is pretty *yawn* in my book, with none of the changes I was hoping to see.

Are you sure the grenade nerf applies to WvW?  In prior communications, they use "PvP" to refer to Arenas and Tourney PvP, while WvW has been a separate thing.

#6 Global_GW2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:35 AM

View PostIsti, on 16 November 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Are you sure the grenade nerf applies to WvW?  In prior communications, they use "PvP" to refer to Arenas and Tourney PvP, while WvW has been a separate thing.

Nope I'm not sure. In fact I added in my edit just after you quoted it. Thieves seem to be reporting that their "PVP only" damage reductions are not implemented in WvW, so I'd assume this applies to Engis as well.

#7 justOneWord

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:36 AM

Quote

Bomb Kit, Med Kit, Tool Kit, and Elixir Gun: These skills can now be equipped in the air.

Thank god. Never again will I try to bash medkits on enemies heads.

#8 Isti

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:37 AM

I'm also annoyed that they added stats to the Ele's summoned weapons, but did NOT add stats to engi kits.

#9 Rozbuska

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:39 AM

Bilion of changes for harpoon what noone use. Stats contibution into kits nothing, sigil for kits nothing.

#10 DrunknGod

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:13 AM

Yeah with the hype of 30 bullet points of changes I'm left....wanting.

#11 matsif

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:44 AM

everything went better than expected imo...given anet's track record I consider this a win instead of a super-nerf than many had expected.

#12 Blizt

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:09 AM

Pretty satisfied with all the various bug fixes, a few of them were really bugging me.

And YES they buffed the Tool Kit! Especially the new Magnet, 1200 range now, much better <3

Edited by Blizt, 16 November 2012 - 04:05 AM.


#13 Budzasty

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:55 AM

Underwhelming changes to say the least.

Grenade changes doesn't really matter for WvW/PvE, nerfing them in PvP where it's nigh impossible to hit a decent player is ridicoulus.

Tollkit buff is nice. But:

Where is love for turrets?
Where are buffs for elite skills(elixir x and mortar are so meh)?
Where are working stats/sigils on kits?

Those are major issues, not the kit stowing in mid air or underwater detonating turrets. I don't mind all bugifixes but they should have some sort of priorities.

View PostRozbuska, on 16 November 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Bilion of changes for underwater combat which noone use.
FTFY

#14 Ellipsis

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:16 AM

Bomb kit nerfed, turrets get their overcharge buffed but still die quickly, toolkit gets its two decent skills buffed whereas the other three are still mediocre, and the harpoon gun gets a bunch of useless buffs because grenades are still stupidly strong underwater.

I feel like this update was Anet’s way of saying they want to update the engineer class without spending the time to actually address the issues players have discussed on the forums. What’s even more insulting is the fact that they buff ele weapons to give them stat bonuses, but ignore engies completely.

#15 Majic

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:27 AM

I'll take what I can get, and there's some good stuff in there, but it seems to sort of nibble around some big problems rather than fix them.

I just wish my turrets would stop shooting at dead objects instead of enemies. :(

#16 Mr.Kotte

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

View PostEllipsis, on 16 November 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

I feel like this update was Anet’s way of saying they want to update the engineer class without spending the time to actually address the issues players have discussed on the forums. What’s even more insulting is the fact that they buff ele weapons to give them stat bonuses, but ignore engies completely.
I could not have said it better myself. This summarizes exactly what I feel.

#17 Xunlai Agent

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:24 AM

This patch has encouraged me to revisit my Engineer and I am going to start leveling my engineer to run the grenadier spec as a result of this! Increasing the delivery speed was a fantastic change and I look forward to hurling nades around Tyria. I do hope they revisit the possibilities of sigils or stat boosts on the weapon kits though!

Edited by Xunlai Agent, 16 November 2012 - 10:24 AM.


#18 Rozbuska

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:02 PM

View PostXunlai Agent, on 16 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

This patch has encouraged me to revisit my Engineer and I am going to start leveling my engineer to run the grenadier spec as a result of this! Increasing the delivery speed was a fantastic change and I look forward to hurling nades around Tyria. I do hope they revisit the possibilities of sigils or stat boosts on the weapon kits though!

That speed increase is barely noticeable

#19 Trei

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:12 PM

lol... see?
I knew it.

Almost a third of the bullet points were about grenades' damage being decreased and underwater skills counting as projectiles.

#20 Coren

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:22 PM

Players having issues on how the engineer should be doesn't mean that it would be balanced in the end. But I do admit I was hoping for more turret love. As it is I'm still going to.stick to grenades, bombs, elixir gun and elixirs. Was hoping we'd see more usefulness added to.gadgets.

#21 Killyox

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:02 PM

View PostRozbuska, on 16 November 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Bilion of changes for harpoon what noone use. Stats contibution into kits nothing, sigil for kits nothing.

View PostTrei, on 16 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

lol... see?
I knew it.

Almost a third of the bullet points were about grenades' damage being decreased and underwater skills counting as projectiles.

They had to artificially make it appear big. Grenades dmg decreased by 10,15,10 etc accordingly would've been just 1 bullet point afterall.

And #1 on FT is still weak, #2 still bugs 95% of the time, blind radius on flame turret has ben reduced A LOT, bomb kit has been nerfed further and also right no without radius increase it's pretty much crap. With radius inc it's ok but smoke bomb got shafted, toolkit is still crap because who and why would use 1,2 skills there at all ? Toss Rlixir R is basically crap now due to downed hp reduction and CDincrease. Also instant revive skills are even more awesome then this now.

Poison Dart Vollet still shoots as if drunken operator. Turrets still don't scale with stats and are generally pitiful. AI for them is still as retarded as ever.

#22 CepaCepa

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:38 PM

Bad News: The changes that we've been asking for and the issues that we've been mentioning were not fixed.

Good News: They didn't nerf grenade PvE damage.

Suprising News: With a slight nerf to thief and a heavy hit to mesmer's damage, full berserker grenade engineers now sit at #1 sustained single target dps and of course #1 aoe dps across all professions, all specs.

Edited by CepaCepa, 16 November 2012 - 09:40 PM.


#23 KodiakX

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:19 AM

I for one am glad Planetside 2 is coming out next week.

Getting pretty tired of waiting for them to really address the real issues instead of side step them and do a bunch of fixes that aren't really lamented about.  Which is not to say they aren't doing anything but instead to say they aren't addressing some of the more important issues with the Engineer (such as kits, stats, sigils and eventually influsions as well).

Figure that'll give me something to do while they figure it out and then I can always roll back into it.  Gotta love their pay once to play model :)

View PostCepaCepa, on 16 November 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

Suprising News: With a slight nerf to thief and a heavy hit to mesmer's damage, full berserker grenade engineers now sit at #1 sustained single target dps and of course #1 aoe dps across all professions, all specs.

You left out #1 cause of carpal tunnel.

#24 B3aT

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:08 AM

I see 2 improvements for wvw, the pull and faster grenades, happy with that, look at the other classes could be worst :)
fixes are welcome though lots of them should be fixed 2 months ago.

#25 Picpoc

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:43 PM

I've found at least one undocumented change. Super Elixir from the Elixir gun is ticking for way more healing, and I have not added any +healing. Pre-patch it was healing for 140 a tick. Post patch it is healing for 380 a tick (with no + healing). When you throw down both fields (skill 5 + kit refinement trait) you can stay up through some pretty heavy fire. Combine it with the still undocumented condition removal on landing and it is a very strong support skill.

Edited by Picpoc, 17 November 2012 - 02:44 PM.


#26 Runkleford

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

View PostCepaCepa, on 16 November 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

Suprising News: With a slight nerf to thief and a heavy hit to mesmer's damage, full berserker grenade engineers now sit at #1 sustained single target dps and of course #1 aoe dps across all professions, all specs.

This is why I said in the other thread that arguments against nerfs should not include comparisons to other OP aspects of other professions since those OP aspects are most likely going to take a hit from the nerf bat.

But honestly, I'm baffled why grenades got a slight buff for PVE. It was already too good compared to everything else the Engineer has.

#27 Ryden Lotus

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:01 PM

It really irritates me as a main engineer that all that we've really seen useful in this patch is an increase to PvE grenade effectiveness, making one of the very few useful engineer specs now clearly the dominant, if it wasn't already. The magnet buff could be useful to pull people of walls, like it has been stated, but the tool kit is still crap and we saw no other useful changes to kits. Bombs were nerfed game-wide and grenades are even less useful in PvP due to their difficulty to hit moving players AND a decrease and damage. Harpoon gun is still underwhelming. Turrets are still next to useless because they like to lock onto dead hostiles/destructibles. Many elixirs saw a nerf. This update hurt the engineer, not helped it. Arenanet literally got the needed nerfing and buffing backwards in these changes.

#28 dragonphlu

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:06 AM

I may end up working on my engineer for awhile until Anet fixes mesmer. Mesmers got hit with a giant nerf bat on all our phantasms with the LoS and vulnerable to blind/aegis/block/dodge/elevated terrains/flying cows/etc. And the LoS fix is still buggy; even just on a ramp, I get "Obstructed" and the phantasm skill goes on cooldown.

Anyways, I see more buffs than nerfs for engineer (big nerf to grenades in PvP). I, too, was surprised that grenades got buffed in PvE. While I'm a little sad for elixirs, at least there's the elixir gun. I may even try using turrets or combination of kits. Another good thing is that they didn't nerf the flamethrower.

#29 Killyox

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:19 AM

Good builds remained good. Bad builds remained bad.

Also they have broken Flame Turret's Smoke Screen. Smoke Screen's tooltip says radius 450 which previously was the case. Now it says 450 but is in reality 240.

I will drop my pearl of wisdom on all pvp engineers ecause not everyone knows this.


When you exit kits with Kit button and got confusion on, you receive dmg. Whn you exit kit with ~ while you have confusion on, you receive no dmg.

View PostPicpoc, on 17 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

I've found at least one undocumented change. Super Elixir from the Elixir gun is ticking for way more healing, and I have not added any +healing. Pre-patch it was healing for 140 a tick. Post patch it is healing for 380 a tick (with no + healing). When you throw down both fields (skill 5 + kit refinement trait) you can stay up through some pretty heavy fire. Combine it with the still undocumented condition removal on landing and it is a very strong support skill.

For me prepatch it was always at least ~200 with no +healing.

Edited by Killyox, 20 November 2012 - 09:18 AM.





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