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Mesmer Patch Changes


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#31 Norseman

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:45 AM

View PostAsomal, on 17 November 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

I don't undersrtand the LOS complaint. Every other profession has to have the target on sight to hit thier single target skills. So this wasn't a nerf,but rather a bug correction.

Well allow me to explain!

1) "Every other profession has to have the target on sight to hit thier single target skills" I wasn't aware that iBerserker was a single target skill.

2) Other professions have some kind of ranged AOE attack that they can use to hit targets up on keep walls etc without line of sight. Ranger volley, ele fire storm, thief short bow bomb thing...mesmer has nothing. It was our one thing to hit people up on fort walls. And even with it's old damage output, it was nothing but a nuisance really, but still gave us something to harass the enemy with.

#32 RandolfRa

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:53 AM

View PostAiyumu, on 17 November 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

I got a question. If a player hits a target that's invulnerable/blocking/distorted with a skill that applies condition, does the condition not apply? Does C&D's stealth not work? I've never really paid attention myself as I'm new to pvp, but I'm curious. If they don't, I suppose it makes sense ANet made mesmer follow suit with the block.

Seems like mesmer's phantasms are becoming more of a 'projectile' skill, rather than a 'summon' skill.
They really should get rid of this ridiculous pseudo-fps bull crap. Real fps games at least have a decent collision detection engine, physics, and bullets / explosions that damage objects behind thinner covers. You can't hide behind a wall of paper like you can here. Due to the game being 3rd person, it's also very difficult to tell what your character can see and what he can't.

#33 Kumakichi

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

They really gutted iberzerker.  Hope they fix that blindness bug quick

#34 Touche

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:07 AM

View PostKumakichi, on 17 November 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

They really gutted iberzerker.  Hope they fix that blindness bug quick

It's not a bug, go look at the Patch notes. This is working as intended.

#35 Corvindi

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:53 AM

I was sad my Mesmer lost her best troll ability against players on walls and siege.  What I hoped would happen is that my Ranger would get birds buffed to be useful against people on the walls.

Oh well.  Pretty done with WvW anyway I guess, given recent events.

I am not however done with Mesmer, they're kind of fun in solo PVE, too.  I have one at lvl 40 something, but today I decided that what the world of Tyria really needs is more Charr Mesmers!  Because there's nothing like filling the space around you with hulking kitty cats.

#36 LunarN

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:52 PM

Can't post about the topic, because i don't care the change at all.
Still rock'n'rolling.
But..

View PostCorvindi, on 18 November 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

...what the world of Tyria really needs is more Charr Mesmers!  Because there's nothing like filling the space around you with hulking kitty cats.

...this!

#37 tangoesp

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

Mesmer just become the only class that need LOS to cast their summons.

#38 RandolfRa

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:47 AM

Quote

Mesmer just become the only class that need LOS to cast their summons.
Well thief guild needs LOS too, doesn't it?

Edited by RandolfRa, 20 November 2012 - 02:48 AM.


#39 General Typhus

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:36 AM

View Posttangoesp, on 19 November 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

Mesmer just become the only class that need LOS to cast their summons.

The summons in question work entirely differently mechanically as well. Illusions are summoned at the target whereas minions/spirit weapons/elementals are summoned at the caster and suffer from travel times. Additionally no other summon spell allows copies of the same minion to be summoned repeatedly with the prior one still being alive for a cumulative damage gain. And so on...

#40 LethoOfGulet

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:35 AM

View PostTouche, on 16 November 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Phantasmal Mage: This skill’s confusion has been increased to 3 stacks for 3 seconds from 1 stack for 9 seconds. The recharge on Phantasmal Mage’s skill has been increased to 6 seconds from 5 seconds.
Okay, so they made Phantasmal Mage more bursty? Personally, I think they should have kept the attack rate at same speed or even lower it to 4 seconds. The reason why the torch isn't used more is because the iMage is very lackluster compared to pretty much every other alternative

#41 Kymeric

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:07 AM

We rely on our illusions to do a lot more than just damage, though.  So now LoS can undermine not only our ability to hit someone, but our ability to use distortion, heal, buff ourselves, etc.

A phantasm isn't just a meteor shower that looks like a person.

#42 Lordkrall

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:11 AM

View PostKymeric, on 21 November 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

We rely on our illusions to do a lot more than just damage, though.  So now LoS can undermine not only our ability to hit someone, but our ability to use distortion, heal, buff ourselves, etc.

A phantasm isn't just a meteor shower that looks like a person.

Only if you are bad however. A good player can easily adapt to the new version.

#43 Necteys

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:23 PM

But you can be the best player in the world, if the little flintstone lying on the spinach leaf in the terrain is giving you an "Obstructed" message.
The real LoS problem atm is not the obvious, which was right getting fixed. It's the "So Phantasm I summon you" - "ok I'll give you a 50/50 chance of appearing, no matter what. Deal with it"

;)

#44 Lordkrall

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

View PostNecteys, on 21 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

But you can be the best player in the world, if the little flintstone lying on the spinach leaf in the terrain is giving you an "Obstructed" message.
The real LoS problem atm is not the obvious, which was right getting fixed. It's the "So Phantasm I summon you" - "ok I'll give you a 50/50 chance of appearing, no matter what. Deal with it"

;)

But that is because of a BUG. And that is a bug that existed even before this update.

#45 Necteys

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:24 PM

The bug definitely got worse last patch. The "bug" existed, you're right. But before it was about maybe 1 out of 10 times or less, that phantasms didn't spawn. Now it's just a mechanic you can't predict. Nothing you can rely on 100%

It's just like Thief's Cloak'n'Dagger doesn't stealth you 2/3 times
Guardian's block wall doesn't block 2/5 people
and so on... ;)

Don't get me wrong. I play a handful of different builds. I really adapt and I still have fun. But it just feels wrong...it feels so kinda crude

Edited by Necteys, 21 November 2012 - 01:25 PM.


#46 Touche

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:08 PM

Overall Mesmer is still fine.  Outside of athe few bugs we've been balanced a bit. I've already dealt with the changes. Any skilled  Mesmer in this forum should feel the same ...or you can be a FOTM reroller and go thief.

#47 Kymeric

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:11 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 21 November 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

Only if you are bad however. A good player can easily adapt to the new version.

Oh, okay. Only bad players need their class mechanic to work reliably.  I'll go practice some more then.

#48 Kymeric

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

View PostTouche, on 21 November 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Overall Mesmer is still fine.  Outside of athe few bugs we've been balanced a bit. I've already dealt with the changes. Any skilled  Mesmer in this forum should feel the same ...or you can be a FOTM reroller and go thief.

I'm way too slow to be a FotM player.  I've been playing mesmer for quite a while now, and never had the complaints (It's too hard to level!) that others do.  I love the profession.

Seeing my screen fill up with "OBSTRUCTED", though, just isn't fun.  It's like suddenly being forced to write holding the pen in your toes.  Sure, I suppose with some effort I could learn to do that, but why?

The way the game is responding to LoS, it's like the engine is pathing our spells along the ground instead of through the air.  I'm fighting a twenty foot tall veteran Karka, and two foot tall bumps in the ground are denying me half my illusions.

Guess I'm just bad, lazy, and want a welfare MMORPG.

Edited by Kymeric, 21 November 2012 - 03:23 PM.


#49 Lordkrall

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

View PostKymeric, on 21 November 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

Oh, okay. Only bad players need their class mechanic to work reliably.  I'll go practice some more then.

No, but only bad players does not take their surroundings into calculation during a fight and therefore can't adapt when the playing field changes.

#50 Kymeric

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:00 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 21 November 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

No, but only bad players does not take their surroundings into calculation during a fight and therefore can't adapt when the playing field changes.

Perhaps we're having different experiences here.

In the Veteran Karka fight I referenced earlier, the Karka was running around in all these little bumps in the ground.  They looked like coral chunks, or cooled lava, something like that.  I was getting mass "obstructed" messages.

There's no adapting to that.  Any side I move to gives the same result.  So unless I can calculate my playstyle to not be dependent on illusions, which I don't see given how intrinsic they are to just about everything a Mesmer does (feedback still works beautifully, so there's that), how do I take the calculations into account and proceed effectively?

Or do I just calculate that this is a fight for the other seven professions, and go find some smooth terrain to play on?

I really do want to know.  I'm not normally a "my class has been nerfed! I quit" kind of person.  It's hard to imagine anyone who has leveled a Mesmer being like that, actually, since the profession is not your typical run in swinging or stand back nuking type of class.  There's a certain amount of "I'm going to figure out how this weird little profession is supposed to be played" that has to happen if you're going to happily level past 20.

I haven't played my Mesmer for a few days after getting very frustrated, but you seem pretty sure that I'm over-inflating the problem.  Guess I'll try again tomorrow and see if you're right.

Edited by Kymeric, 21 November 2012 - 04:04 PM.


#51 Touche

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:55 PM

View PostKymeric, on 21 November 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

Oh, okay. Only bad players need their class mechanic to work reliably.  I'll go practice some more then.

If you read my whole post you would see that I said we're fine OUTSIDE OF BUGS. The bugs need to be addressed, but at this point there is a workaround and if you're not a full retard you can figure it out. Our class is playable if you can't figure this out go play something else.

#52 Kymeric

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:59 PM

View PostTouche, on 21 November 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

If you read my whole post you would see that I said we're fine OUTSIDE OF BUGS. The bugs need to be addressed, but at this point there is a workaround and if you're not a full retard you can figure it out. Our class is playable if you can't figure this out go play something else.

I thought I was bad.  That's why I was going to go get some more practice.

But I guess I'm a "full retard".

Thanks for helping.

Careful, rage is hard on your cardiac system.

Edited by Kymeric, 21 November 2012 - 06:01 PM.


#53 Awesomnius

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:23 AM

Previously, I was fine with the changes made to the Mesmer. It never really seemed like much of a change to me until recently.

Maybe I never noticed it before because I wasn't paying attention, maybe I was in a better mood before the change finally ticked me off.

So I'm fighting a Karka, I'm on low health, I'll die in one more hit, but then again, so will he.

I have LOS, I know this because my auto-attack has hit him. I fire my Berserker at him and dodge away.

A thin tree comes between us making me lose LOS the moment of impact. OBSTRUCTED comes up. I die.

That Berserker was our only non-LOS damager (Chaos Storm isn't really direct damage, the 3 attack on the GS doesn't hit for much), it'd be nice if they could give it back to us.

#54 Elysen

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:34 AM

While Mesmers are not happy about changes to LOS, we all know it was necessary.

Edited by Xephenon, 22 November 2012 - 01:34 AM.


#55 Necteys

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

You really don't get the point, why most mesmers are complaining now.

It's not the point, that they can't shoot their zerkers behind a wall anymore. That HAD to be fixed. No one's complaining about that. Some just would like to see some kind of AoE-Spell, they can use in a siege...I don't care about this, really.

The problem is that the coding is just messed up. And most of us want to see this thing just fixed. It's just one more bug, while lots of our bugs are just ignored since release. Some just fear, that it would sum up from patch to patch, until the class is broken as hell.

It's the fact, that one single toe-high stoney, lying between your enemy and you on flat plains, can give you obstructed message. A thing you can't adapt to, because you just simply don't see it.
It's just unreliable, because there is no situation, where you can say for sure, that it will give you the message or it won't.

It's like autoattacking and some hits do damage and some hits just don't, and you can't tell why or why not...

#56 Angelus359

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:33 PM

other day, I was on a flat open plain, and I cast phantasmal berserker

It came up obstructed




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