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GW2 PvP Balance


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#1 stefanplc

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:42 AM

Hi there,

I'm sure everyone's aware and has seen all the constant complaints about the PvP balance in this game, how some professions are more OP than others, how some do more damage, some are too tanky and so forth. While many of the complaints are valid and there's plenty of work left to be done to balance professions properly, people are overlooking on aspect of the game. While some professions may be a little tougher to kill and others may be doing a little damage, you always have a fighting chance through the innovative mechanic they introduced which is the dodging system.

I'm not sure how many of you played WoW, however in that game for years and years there have been CLEAR examples of fights where one class simply could not beat the other no matter what they did. Take frost mage vs warrior for example where even the best warrior couldn't kill an average mage, or the days of the sl/sl warlocks where nothing could beat them, the days of roguecraft and so forth. In that game there was literally NOTHING you could do to win in several situations.

GuildWars 2, while at the same time is suffering from some poor balancing which I have faith with time will get fixed, gives you a fighting chance. If you're willing to learn, play the professions you're having trouble against and figure out what to dodge/avoid in order to hurt them the most, you will often be able to overcome some of the advantages your opponent may have simply from the game design.

The problem is that many people don't wish to invest that time and actually learn how to PvP in this game, as it is a really different fighting system from any other MMO. Many people build their character solely for pew pew without bringing 1-2 condition removals and 1-2 stun breakers and without investing traits into some defensive trees. Many people waste their dodges completely, dodging absolutely nothing but thin air. I know, it's much easier to just cry on the forums then doing some work.

Before constantly complaining and making this and the official forum just not worth reading and annoying, ask yourself if there was something you could have done better. Constructive posts showing where game designers need to improve are always great, but the current insulting, obnoxious and lack of information threads, full of just constant crying just need to stop. I've played both a warrior and thief so far in GW2 and I've rarely played the "OP builds" these professions have such as 100 blades or backstab and because I've learned how to counter them I can't even remember the last time I lost to one of them. If anything, I really enjoy meeting them in PvP and teaching them a lesson because I can imagine their face expression when they lose.

There are a few people that are constantly getting better at PvP playing different professions and posting constructive threads and youtube videos showing you how to beat those "OP opponents". There was recently a necromancer video showing how to counter thieves and warriors. Not too long ago there was another video showing how to dodge versus warriors (from a guardian POV I believe) and many others. Lets try and take them as an example instead of joining the crying band wagon. Lets try and be a little more constructive and learn to play a little more otherwise the community will do nothing but hurt this game.

#2 Thandbar

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:56 AM

Overall, I approve your construcitve approach, but I do not share the majority of your points.
The game is not based on 1vs1 fights, and winning against a fotm-class (or finding a niche spec able to beat certain other specs) has nothing to do with proper game balance.

It is very important to identify unbalanced elements within a game to make it better, because every "OP" force other player to build their character in a specific way, thus restricting the metagame and the overall gameplay.

#3 stefanplc

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:57 AM

Also keep in mind, that if you learn how to play better now and learn how to win vs opponents that currently are a little OP, when they get nerfed you'll have an even bigger advantage because it will actually be a personal buff.

#4 DeRange

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:05 PM

View PostThandbar, on 16 November 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

The game is not based on 1vs1 fights

I don't find this statement to be true. In tPvP there's plenty of 1v1 fights, or 1v2, or 2v2. Overall it's a scale small enough for the 1v1 capabilities of a class to matter quite a lot.

#5 Lordkrall

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:12 PM

View PostDeRange, on 16 November 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

I don't find this statement to be true. In tPvP there's plenty of 1v1 fights, or 1v2, or 2v2. Overall it's a scale small enough for the 1v1 capabilities of a class to matter quite a lot.

I believe what he means is that it is not balanced around 1vs1. Which is true.
The game is balances around 5vs5

#6 Raggok

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:57 AM

Great post.  

For those saying the game isn't balanced for 1v1...  of course it isn't entirely, but they've put a good bit of work into balancing things not only for group play but for 1v1s.  Ayra is right in that the dodge mechanic is a 1v1 balance equalizer.  Just compare the benefit of a timely dodge in a group fight with a ton of CC and damage being thrown at you as compared to the benefit of a timely dodge in a 1v1.  Dodge is in there more for 1v1 balance than 5v5 balance.

BTW, the videos (guardian and necro) you are referring to might both be mine.  :)

I just got done watching your latest WvW thief movie.  Great movie, very entertaining and skillful play.  It's funny that people think the backstab build is OP when it is so easily counterable, not realiizing that builds like yours are the truly strong thief builds.  Maybe too strong, IMO.  But, then again, I'm probably just saying that because I don't know how I can counter it with my power-based necro.  ;P

#7 Yski

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:10 PM

Agreed. I'm running a minion master necromancer and laughing at D/D thieves trying to spike me. All it takes a quick fear from DS followed by placing a few marks at your feet and suddenly the "OP" thief can't do anything while being eaten alive by a bunch of "useless" minions.

The fact I'm constantly told there's no way it would work in tPvP really makes me want to give it a try :D

By the way Raggok, keep up the good work! There are far too few good necromancer videos out there.

Edited by Yski, 18 November 2012 - 12:19 PM.


#8 Aodan

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

View PostThandbar, on 16 November 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Overall, I approve your construcitve approach, but I do not share the majority of your points.
The game is not based on 1vs1 fights, and winning against a fotm-class (or finding a niche spec able to beat certain other specs) has nothing to do with proper game balance.

It is very important to identify unbalanced elements within a game to make it better, because every "OP" force other player to build their character in a specific way, thus restricting the metagame and the overall gameplay.

Actually if you look at the top teams they constantly switch out utilities/elites and traits depending on the fight and comps they are taking on.

As guardian I will constantly switch between shelter/hallowed ground based on how much range/melee is in the comp. I will also switch between RF and Tomb depending on how burst heavy the other comp is.

This game does have some balance issues, but not nearly as many, as some posters make it seem on these forums.
The reason they cry OP, is because they get countered in role.

I'm recently playing mesmer competitively and it's by far the biggest challenge because, now I'm playing a glassy cannon and have to learn how to counter other glassy cannons or correctly play against heavy tanks (Grd bunkers, War Bunkers). But I would not agree with 80% of the posts on these forums about balance.

Then again many come from Hot Join, which will never be "balanced" because people are simply going in to kill/win not to work as a team or balance their comp.




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