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#1 Snarvid

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

I get that it is from Abaddon (sp?) but how is it used?  Is this a would where only some individuals or races have a gift, or can anyone play if they are willing to pay?

#2 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:42 AM

It's not from Abaddon. It's a natural occurance, and limited it seems. Abaddon simply took the magic, which at the time was sealed in the original bloodstone made by the seers to keep it out of the Elder Dragons' hands (since they devour magic), and did something that allowed everyone to use it in larger amounts - before the bloodstone was divided into five, making the four schools of magic.

Anyone can use magic, how is never really clarified, but how effective one is at using magic varies based on innate talent (for instance, Orrians were able to use magic with ease and used it for everyday activities, while Ascalonians had to train for years and even then only used it when physical labor was ineffective).

The specifics on magic is still fairly unknown, and there's a lot of theories on it - many connecting magic as being a form of channeling power from The Mists.

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#3 draxynnic

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:20 AM

In the case of the Orrians, I'd question whether it's a matter of talent or location. There was a lot of magic in Orr, even after the removal of the Bloodstones - it seems possible to me that it was simply easier to use magic in Orr because there was more of it than a case of the Orrians being innately magically superior.

Of course, it could be that the exposure to all that magic lead the Orrians to become more magically attuned, but the bottom line is that if the people there are special it's because the location is special. (It's also worth noting that while the truly Orrian Risen have a lot of magic users, they're still not showing the universal magic use described in the Ascalonian visitor's observation - which may be an indication that some of them have dropped below the threshold of magic use as Zhaitan consumed Orr's magic. Alternatively, it could just be that the villagers, farmers, and so on simply lack combat magic.)
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#4 Dasryn

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

this topic intrigued me and i went onto the wiki to investigate a little more and i came across this little passage:

"After some time, Abaddon's Mouth erupted and sent the five stones throughout Tyria. One landed back into the caldera of the volcano, while another landed in the Maguuma Jungle, in a place now known as Bloodstone Fen. A third crashed through the Shiverpeak Mountains and resides in the Bloodstone Caves within the mountains. The locations of the last two are still unknown."

now the reason this passage interests me is, think about the locations of those bloodstones.

one landed back in the volcano, im probably wrong in this, but think about Primordius and his Destroyers, they are living magma, idk if its true but i believe there is a correlation.

one landed in the shiver peak mountains - Jormag

one landed in Maguuma Jungles - sylvari and Asura

then there is two where no one knows - im thinking it has something to do with deep sea dragon and Zhaitan.

now i am not saying the bloodstones are the elder dragons - but im trying to connect the dots as Magic is essentially the elder dragons Primary diet.

i think the dragons are residing in areas close to the stones.  Jeff Grubb said that the fate of the bloodstones will be revealed at a later date in GW2.

#5 Steadfast Gao Shun

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:29 AM

The bloodstone in the volcano has nothing to do with Primordius, I think, unless you think his reach extends all the way to the Ring of Fire Islands. All three bloodstones were under Mursaat control for at least brief periods of time, so if anything, we should see if Anet releases more stuff on those guys.

I'm not sure how much GW1 lore we're going to be retconning, since in the original source, the bloodstones were created using the blood of Doric. I'm not sure if that detail is still kept in newer versions...

Edited by Steadfast Gao Shun, 19 November 2012 - 01:30 AM.


#6 Valkaire

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:43 AM

View PostRickter, on 19 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

this topic intrigued me and i went onto the wiki to investigate a little more and i came across this little passage:

"After some time, Abaddon's Mouth erupted and sent the five stones throughout Tyria. One landed back into the caldera of the volcano, while another landed in the Maguuma Jungle, in a place now known as Bloodstone Fen. A third crashed through the Shiverpeak Mountains and resides in the Bloodstone Caves within the mountains. The locations of the last two are still unknown."

now the reason this passage interests me is, think about the locations of those bloodstones.

one landed back in the volcano, im probably wrong in this, but think about Primordius and his Destroyers, they are living magma, idk if its true but i believe there is a correlation.

one landed in the shiver peak mountains - Jormag

one landed in Maguuma Jungles - sylvari and Asura

then there is two where no one knows - im thinking it has something to do with deep sea dragon and Zhaitan.

now i am not saying the bloodstones are the elder dragons - but im trying to connect the dots as Magic is essentially the elder dragons Primary diet.

i think the dragons are residing in areas close to the stones.  Jeff Grubb said that the fate of the bloodstones will be revealed at a later date in GW2.

Asura originally lived underground until they were driven out by destroyers (the great destroyer resides somewhere close to the Central Transfer Chamber if I remember correctly). Dragons residing close to bloodstones make sense since as far as we know they eat magic but primordus and his minions are underground and I don't see any dragons being linked to the ring of fire.

Edited by Valkaire, 19 November 2012 - 01:45 AM.


#7 Dasryn

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:54 AM

View PostValkaire, on 19 November 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

Asura originally lived underground until they were driven out by destroyers (the great destroyer resides somewhere close to the Central Transfer Chamber if I remember correctly). Dragons residing close to bloodstones make sense since as far as we know they eat magic but primordus and his minions are underground and I don't see any dragons being linked to the ring of fire.

yeah i had a feeling that i was totally out of the ball park with the primordius theory but that aside, it makes sense that there is a dramatic connection between elder dragons and the bloodstones.

5 elder dragons, 5 bloodstones, bloodstones are the source of magic, magic is elder dragons primary diet.

oh but there is a 6th elder dragon you say?

well there is technically a 6th stone - the keystone.

i think there is a very convenient correlation between it all.

#8 caballo_oscuro

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:14 AM

Rickter, the Elder Dragons were in the world before the original 6 gods came to Tyria and had lapsed into slumber prior to their arrival.
the rising of the dragons is very much linked to the Asura's activities in the Far Shiverpeaks. Primordus had a General called the Great Destroyer, who the Asura disturbed 250 years prior to GW2.

The Great Destroyer battled and lost to the Great Dwarf in the original battle and his summoning again during the EotN era was as a result of the Asura and Deldrimor Dwarfs' actions in the Far Shiverpeaks.

It may be that the Elder Dragons wish to possess the Bloodstones because their magic is different to that of the Bloodstones whose magic is from a source within the Mists and this may be a key in the war against the dragons but the dragons are certainly not reliant on it...

#9 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:19 AM

View PostRickter, on 19 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

one landed back in the volcano, im probably wrong in this, but think about Primordius and his Destroyers, they are living magma, idk if its true but i believe there is a correlation.

one landed in the shiver peak mountains - Jormag

-snip-

i think the dragons are residing in areas close to the stones.
Primordus is in the Depths, Zhaitan's forces reached to the Ring of Fire. Bloodstone Caves is at southern Sparkfly Swamp - roughly - in GW2. At the base of the Shiverpeaks, and in a cave. No where close to Jormag, let alone where he was slumbering near the arctic seas _way off the map to the north_.

The original bloodstone was split into five after the Elder Dragons were already long asleep by 10,000 years. Their placement and the ED's placement is unconnected.

View PostRickter, on 19 November 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

5 elder dragons, 5 bloodstones, bloodstones are the source of magic, magic is elder dragons primary diet.

oh but there is a 6th elder dragon you say?

well there is technically a 6th stone - the keystone.
1) Six known Elder Dragons - there can be more (I suspect at least one additional ED). There are only five bloodstones - including the keystone, which is the fifth.

2) The original bloodstone was created by the seers, trapping all magic not yet corrupted by the Elder Dragons during their previous rise.

3) The gods, without knowledge of the Elder Dragons as either heavily implied or proven in the Arah seer path, split the bloodstone into five pieces.

Outside the bloodstones containing magic that was kept away from the Elder Dragons during their previous rise, there's no correlation between the two. There was only one bloodstone during their previous rise, the Elder Dragons went to sleep and about 10,000 years later the Six Gods split the one bloodstone into five (one for each of the four schools of magic, and a fifth to act as a keystone).

View Postcaballo_oscuro, on 19 November 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

the rising of the dragons is very much linked to the Asura's activities in the Far Shiverpeaks. Primordus had a General called the Great Destroyer, who the Asura disturbed 250 years prior to GW2.

The Great Destroyer battled and lost to the Great Dwarf in the original battle and his summoning again during the EotN era was as a result of the Asura and Deldrimor Dwarfs' actions in the Far Shiverpeaks.

It may be that the Elder Dragons wish to possess the Bloodstones because their magic is different to that of the Bloodstones whose magic is from a source within the Mists and this may be a key in the war against the dragons but the dragons are certainly not reliant on it...
Erm, the asura were not in the Far Shiverpeaks (they were in the Depths of Tyria and the Central Transfer Chamber was underneath just north of where Yak's Bend was - roughly, directly beneath Frostgorge Sound now), nor did they cause the Elder Dragons' rise. True, they were using the magic Primordus exerted, but that didn't hasten their awakening since they weren't stealing magic that wasn't being leaked naturally.

The bloodstone's magic is not sourced to the Mists. I don't know why people think this, but that's an unfound belief that magic is the act of tapping into the Mists. As I said, the original bloodstone - made by the seers as found in Arah explorable mode - was used as a container to store all magic in the world that the Elder Dragons had not yet corrupted. This seems to me to have been an action by the seers to starve the Elder Dragons.

If the Elder Dragons seek the bloodstones - very likely, and in fact the risen in Arah have sought out the bloodstone shards that remained from when the gods shattered the original bloodstone - it would be to obtain the magic and power from them. For food.

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#10 Steadfast Gao Shun

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:54 AM

On a somewhat related note: The Ritualist magic from Cantha ARE from the Mists (or at least part of it), and it is explicitly mentioned that it is older before than magic sourced from the Six. But that's a minor point of digression. :P

#11 draxynnic

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:11 AM

It's be more accurate to say that it's older than Abaddon's gift of magic...

We've had indications that there was magic in the world before that 'gift', whatever it involved (possibly unlocking the original proto-bloodstone so it allowed more magic to be accessed (or so that it allowed its magic to be accessed at all)). Personally, I'm starting to think that while the Seers gathered together as much uncorrupted magic as they could, there was still some left that they missed - or that has been generated since. Until 1AE, this - and possibly some small amount from the proto-bloodstone - was what was available to magic-users, including all the creatures that use magic instinctively that probably didn't evolve post-Exodus (with a couple of exceptions such as riders that were created). When Abaddon made the full power of the proto-bloodstone available, this didn't represent the first reappearance of magic (charr annals mention humans using magic in the invasion of Ascalon around 100BE, for instance) but an intensification in the power available.
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#12 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:09 AM

Actually, it's never said the ritualists' magic is from the Mists. Merely that it existed before Abaddon's gift of magic (read: 1 BE) and that this magic was powered by, to use the source's words, "by ancestors of the great and powerful who maintained a connection to their descendents. The power of Spirit allowed mortal humans to practice what might be seen as a form of magic."

@Drax: Don't forget that there's also comments about in asuran history there was magic, then it got increased, then decreased for reasons unknown to them in the past (heavily implied to be when Abaddon gifted magic then the bloodstones got divided).

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#13 Valkaire

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 19 November 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Actually, it's never said the ritualists' magic is from the Mists. Merely that it existed before Abaddon's gift of magic (read: 1 BE) and that this magic was powered by, to use the source's words, "by ancestors of the great and powerful who maintained a connection to their descendents. The power of Spirit allowed mortal humans to practice what might be seen as a form of magic."

@Drax: Don't forget that there's also comments about in asuran history there was magic, then it got increased, then decreased for reasons unknown to them in the past (heavily implied to be when Abaddon gifted magic then the bloodstones got divided).

Considering the mists are the place of afterlives I'd think that saying the ritualists magic coming from the mists isn't that far from the truth seeing that they could get their "magic" from ancestors in the mists.

Edited by Valkaire, 19 November 2012 - 06:12 PM.


#14 Steadfast Gao Shun

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:05 PM

Back of the GW Factions box, taken from the wiki:

Quote

Where a ranger lives as one with the spirit world, a ritualist can and will be its master. Ritualists shield their eyes to better commune with spirits that grant great power and protection. Ritualists channel other-worldly energies from the Mists and commune with spirits through mystic Binding Rituals, bending them to aid their allies or punish their foes. The energy channeled from the Mists powers ritualist skills, enhancing the deadliness of an ally's weapon and wreaking havoc on an enemy's health. The ritualist can also use the remains of the dead to defend the living, not by reanimating corpses as a necromancer would, but through the ritual use of urns and ashes.


While the nature of the "Spirit Realm" (Canthans as a whole seem to mirror their RL cultural counterparts in substituting euphemisms for concepts) is not 100% clear, the ritualists has the ability to open up bits from the Rift, which is an explicit location mentioned to be between the Mists. Dialogue and battlecries from Ritualist henchies like Chiyo states that they can look into the Mists (in context of battle). So I think it's pretty safe for us to make that argument. ;)

EDIT: Kind of goes back to the OP's original question. I don't want to open up another can of worms, of course, but the Mursaat's spectral agony can also be considered a form of magic, right? Would the magic we see represented in the game (elementalist, necromancer, mesmerism, etc) be something that can be viewed as universal (some sort of force similar to the laws of physics in which individuals trained can tap into), or are they inherently racial in nature? In other words. A human and a Charr both summon a fireball. Is the source of that fireball the same, or is it because humans are blessed by Balthazar and manifests his rage/unknown mechanism by Charr?

Edited by Steadfast Gao Shun, 19 November 2012 - 07:25 PM.


#15 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:25 PM

@Valkaire: The distinction to make is the source of the power. Spirits versus the Mists themselves.

@Steadfast: The Spirit Realm (aka Spirit World) is just another term for the afterlives (aka the Mists).


The difference is that the Ritualists look into and take souls from the Mists (temporarily) - kind of like the kodan Voice, actually, or Havrouns. Saying that they channel the power of the Mists, or take magic from the Mists is false, because their magic is opening access to the Mists and taking something that's not the Mists from the area, not taking from the Mists themselves. Ritualists aren't taking protomatter that makes up the Mists and using it for their spells.

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#16 Steadfast Gao Shun

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:49 PM

Certainly you're right in your analysis, but I don't see how the alternative interpretation - Ritualists do take "protomatter" from the Mists - is erroneous in that regard. Can we truly make a distinction between the Mists (the location) and the stuff of the Mists (souls, "protomatter" like Razah, etc) given what we know?

Spawning Power, the ritualist attribute, seem to be suggestive of creation as a whole. Furthermore, you can argue that in the process of binding ritual spirits, they are shaping something that originates (technically, depending on which end of the soul spectrum argument back in '09 you sided with, that could be true) from there into something that is more concrete. Skills dealing with consumption or banishment of spirits for a real-world effect are common, and there are situations (Spirit Rift) is literally allowing a bit of the Mists (or something from it) to strike the real world.

All those spirit weapons and skills like Binding Chains have to have an energy source from somewhere, right? So if anything, a better way for me to phrase my question would be: what is the energy of the Mists, if not the Mists itself? We know whatever that stuff Razah's made of is powerful enough to give us Razah, right? That sounds like an easy enough explanation to me, and definitely sounds like something that can be manipulated by individuals trained in its use.

#17 Alexwentworth

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:10 AM

Sorry to be off topic, but to ambient magic levels vary between locations? Is it possible for one region/continent/area to have higher magic levels than the rest? (or lower for that matter)

If so, what would the effect be on practitioners of magic in the area?

#18 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

The protomatter (using Jeff's wording) is what makes up the Mists themselves and allows the Mists to create - be it land, life (most often but not always in the form of demons), or souls.

A soul is very different from this. So yes, it would be erroneous to say that the Ritualists take the Mists themselves, for if they could, then we'd have the situation at Fractals of the Mists (which seems to be Dessa taking the creative properties of the Mists and making unstable "fractals" - or fragments of land - in an attempt to revolutionize magical understanding... if I'm understanding that dungeon correctly). Ritualists cannot make anything. They use spirits, and these spirits cast magic for them. Two very different situations.

@Alex: Yes, that does seem true, though why is an up-to-debate thing and usually highly magical areas are due to a heavy use of magic in the past and/or beings/objects of powerful magic (e.g., bloodstones, gods, and Elder Dragons) being in the area (presently or for a long enough time in the past).

As for the effect, it's not entirely explored except in the case of Orrians, who were able to use magic very easily. Though it's not really known if that's because they had easier access to magic (thus once they were to leave Orr their magical abilities would decline) or if it was something on a more... genetic (metaphorically) level.

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#19 draxynnic

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:04 AM

The asura records were one of the things I was considering, yes.

My personal feeling is that whatever their personal theories about what they're doing may be, members of different races that share a profession are doing much the same thing when they use that profession's skills. The only things that are explicitly racially-based are the things that are explicitly racial skills - and even some of those are cultural tactics that members of another race could in principle copy.

When it comes to ritualist magic... personally, my theory is that ritualist magic did tap into the power of the Mists. Part of this is the appearance and skill names - the energy of channeling magic is treated as lightning for mechanical purposes but doesn't always resemble natural electrical discharges the way air elementalist lightning does, and some of the skill names such as Spirit Rift and Gaze from Beyond paint a clear picture of the elementalist opening a rift, and then allowing something from the other side to dish out the pain. Now, this 'something' may not be the Mists themselves, but the lore we currently have regarding the bloodstones (and of how much magic there was in Tyria before Abaddon granted his gift) suggest that the bloodstones may only influence Tyrian magic - if the Mists themselves aren't magic, it's possible that the Mists, like Tyria, has a certain degree of magic that it contains 'naturally'. The difference is that Tyria has had its ambient magic drained through consumption by the dragons and sealing within the Bloodstones, while the magic in the Mists is, as far as we know, relatively undisturbed.

What this means is that while since the magic in the bloodstones were made available it became more convenient to use them, prior to that it might have been that the most efficient way of using what ambient magic remained in Tyria was to open a portal to somewhere where more magic was available, such as the Mists. This would allow the practitioner to draw the power they need through that portal to generate the effect they intended. Even now, such a technique might allow a spellcaster to bypass the strictures set by the splitting of the bloodstones, at the expense of engaging in a more difficult and, possibly, more dangerous procedure.
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#20 Turambar

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:08 PM

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 18 November 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

It's not from Abaddon. It's a natural occurance, and limited it seems. Abaddon simply took the magic, which at the time was sealed in the original bloodstone made by the seers to keep it out of the Elder Dragons' hands (since they devour magic), and did something that allowed everyone to use it in larger amounts - before the bloodstone was divided into five, making the four schools of magic.

Anyone can use magic, how is never really clarified, but how effective one is at using magic varies based on innate talent (for instance, Orrians were able to use magic with ease and used it for everyday activities, while Ascalonians had to train for years and even then only used it when physical labor was ineffective).

The specifics on magic is still fairly unknown, and there's a lot of theories on it - many connecting magic as being a form of channeling power from The Mists.

Thanks for the info Konig, an interesting topic and ripe for discussion.

I wonder if magic is from the mists. I also wonder if souls are a form of magic from the mists that has managed to find a body in the material world? And spirits are greater coagulations of magic - hence why dragons eat/corrupt souls?

For comparison the winds of magic in warhammer is an interesting system, the mists remind me somewhat of the warp system. I forget now what Tolkien's magic is: I think it's continual devolution from the deities...

#21 Daenerys

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

View PostTurambar, on 22 November 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

I wonder if magic is from the mists. I also wonder if souls are a form of magic from the mists that has managed to find a body in the material world? And spirits are greater coagulations of magic - hence why dragons eat/corrupt souls?

For comparison the winds of magic in warhammer is an interesting system, the mists remind me somewhat of the warp system. I forget now what Tolkien's magic is: I think it's continual devolution from the deities...
I really like that theory. I've no idea if it's rooted in anything or not, although I feel like if it's not already it should be. Does that make sense? It's super early...

Maybe, if that is the case, that's why sentient beings can use magic. I'm not familiar with much of anything from Warhammer, and again, too early for me to remember much from Tolkien. I think you're at least on the right track, though. Your theory doesn't explain the physical corruptions such as actually being branded. Unless that's just the effect of the dragon's breath or something.

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#22 Leriel

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:52 PM

View Postdraxynnic, on 18 November 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

In the case of the Orrians, I'd question whether it's a matter of talent or location. There was a lot of magic in Orr, even after the removal of the Bloodstones - it seems possible to me that it was simply easier to use magic in Orr because there was more of it than a case of the Orrians being innately magically superior.

Of course, it could be that the exposure to all that magic lead the Orrians to become more magically attuned, but the bottom line is that if the people there are special it's because the location is special. (It's also worth noting that while the truly Orrian Risen have a lot of magic users, they're still not showing the universal magic use described in the Ascalonian visitor's observation - which may be an indication that some of them have dropped below the threshold of magic use as Zhaitan consumed Orr's magic. Alternatively, it could just be that the villagers, farmers, and so on simply lack combat magic.)
I am not sure of the context of Ascalonian visitor's observation (vizier tower logs?), but your mentioning of Zhaitan consuming Orr magic makes me believe it relates to post cataclysm orr, with the undead roaming the lands.
As i understand it, present orrians don't use magic for everyday use since they don't really do anything beyond trying to murder everything not-undead.

#23 ArlanKels

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:43 PM

Don't forget that magic has predated the gods and bloodstones.

The jotun, for example, once were a powerful race with their own form of magic.  Then they kind of murdered themselves and lost all their knowledge on how to tap into it, thus losing their magical abilities.

#24 Turambar

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:56 PM

View PostMockingjay74, on 23 November 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

I really like that theory. I've no idea if it's rooted in anything or not, although I feel like if it's not already it should be. Does that make sense? It's super early...

Maybe, if that is the case, that's why sentient beings can use magic. I'm not familiar with much of anything from Warhammer, and again, too early for me to remember much from Tolkien. I think you're at least on the right track, though. Your theory doesn't explain the physical corruptions such as actually being branded. Unless that's just the effect of the dragon's breath or something.

Just attempting to build a continuum between the Mists and the Physical world and obviously magic is some form of connection between them, but has different "properties/rules" in each? :)

View PostArlanKels, on 23 November 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Don't forget that magic has predated the gods and bloodstones.

The jotun, for example, once were a powerful race with their own form of magic.  Then they kind of murdered themselves and lost all their knowledge on how to tap into it, thus losing their magical abilities.

I suspect if magic has a connection to the mists, then that knowledge/potency might dissipate and knowledge might be lost by chance the longer a loss of connection to the mists is maintained? Hence one reason perhaps the Dragons are so darn hungry for magical power in Tyria where they have to feast on it to sustain themselves and then slumber cycle again?

#25 Steadfast Gao Shun

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:42 AM

Posted Image

Personally, I'd give quite a bit to read that "To Serve the Unseen" book. :P I can only wonder what it means to control magic, though. That almost seem like anthropomorphic description of an abstract entity, or a physical force of the world (which is how I interpret magic).

Edited by Steadfast Gao Shun, 24 November 2012 - 03:43 AM.


#26 draxynnic

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:38 AM

View PostLeriel, on 23 November 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

I am not sure of the context of Ascalonian visitor's observation (vizier tower logs?), but your mentioning of Zhaitan consuming Orr magic makes me believe it relates to post cataclysm orr, with the undead roaming the lands.
As i understand it, present orrians don't use magic for everyday use since they don't really do anything beyond trying to murder everything not-undead.
IIRC, the scroll in question is one of the "Orrian History Scrolls" in the Pact outpost at Shelter Docks (Malchor's Leap). It's written by an Ascalonian merchant who visited Orr before the Cataclysm (possibly even before the Guild Wars) and talks about how the Orrians employ magic for a variety of mundane things, in contrast to Ascalon where it's only used when alternatives wouldn't suffice.

By contrast, while a lot of true Orrian undead do use magic, the peasants and farmers don't (peasants set you alight with torches, farmers beat you down with their shovels). The Orrians certainly do seem to have a higher spellcaster/mundane ratio than most human armies we've seen, but the scroll implies a nation where it's taken for granted the way Westerners take cars and computers for granted.

Edited by draxynnic, 24 November 2012 - 10:41 AM.

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#27 Steadfast Gao Shun

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:41 PM

Something I've observed while running around Ebonhawke was
Spoiler

Edited by Steadfast Gao Shun, 26 November 2012 - 07:51 PM.


#28 Theworldasd

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:44 AM

There's no such thing as MAGIC. *slams door*

Sorry couldn't resist.

Edited by Theworldasd, 27 November 2012 - 01:45 AM.


#29 draxynnic

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:02 AM

Steadfast's analysis is pretty close to what I'm thinking, with the following addendum:

Magic seems to be something that is emitted from sources of magic around the world, thus generating the field that magic-users can use. The strongest of these available to mortals is the Bloodstones, and something in their splitting means that while the proto-bloodstone's magic was a continuous spectrum, the magic emitted from the bloodstones as they are now come in separate bands that prevent them all from being wielded simultaneously. However, dragons also emit magic (which seems to be relatively benign when asleep, but once awake their magic becomes corrupting) and there also appear to be sites of magical significance around the world that emit small amounts of magic (many skill points, especially of the kind you commune with).

The closer you are to a magical source (or the stronger the source), the stronger the field that you can access in order to work magic. This is why the Orrians could use more magic than the Ascalonians - with Orr being a centre of magical power both draconic and non-draconic, the Orrians had a very strong magical field to use, while magic in Ascalon was more limited.
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#30 Snarvid

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:56 PM

Thanks for all the responses.  Very cool.

Is the assumption that all professions are using magic on some level?  Thieves can do magic-y things (shadowstep, shadow refuge), Engineer's elixirs are alchemical, and even Warriors use signets, and also absorb abuse that is physically impossible for mortal flesh.




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