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#1 Bennyandthejets

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:39 PM

We have all seen it.  If you have stood in LA for more than a few minutes your map chat is filled with LFG FoTM (x).  Now before I begin, I like the new dungeon.  I think its a nice addition, fun, different.  "However" what I do not like is the segregation of the community.  Lets pretend you just got home for the weekend & are excited to participate in the event.  You see people looking for members & join one of the groups only to be deemed unable to do so because you haven't completed fractals 1-23 even though you are more than capable.

Here is the issue:  

You now have 20-30 groups looking for players, & only a small % of players are in the particular fractal.  For example:

Group is looking for fractal 15.  Jimmy wants to come, but Jimmy has only completed up to 13.  Sorry Jimmy, better luck next week.

How does the introduction of gated content improve a MMO that was supposed to be about freedom, playing how we want to play, playing with friends etc?

Edited by Bennyandthejets, 18 November 2012 - 01:41 PM.


#2 notum

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

yeah, it seems pretty short-sited on their part. honestly i think having the HIGHEST common denominator be the one that determines difficulty would be much better.

#3 Aetou

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:54 PM

As you can turn down the difficulty instead of being forced to use the default, yes - it should be Highest or Average or... something.  A lot of people are getting gated out because so many PUGs collapse before completing 3 fractals and you can't replace DCs.

#4 Cereal

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:59 PM

I do believe this Nov update was some sort of test. A test to see how the general community responds to another step in the gear ladder. To determine how much of the player base enjoys elitism/segregation by progress vs skill. An experiment to observe how the locust swarm rips through additional content, hits the next gear wall and when finished says, "We'll, now what do I do?"

And, of course, to see how much of a profit can be made through the cash shop. Knowing players had used all their Black Lion chests during Halloween, they went straight to unlocked-on-purchase Consortium chests. Very clever, indeed.

YOU'LL HAVE TO PRY THE WALLET FROM MY DEAD HANDS, ARENANET!!!!!1



#5 MrForz

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:59 PM

I only wished we were free to select the difficulty. Didn't have much time to literally slaughter this dungeon to oblivion and so far I'm stuck on 4, everyone is already about 10+.

#6 Hector

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:02 PM

View PostBennyandthejets, on 18 November 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:



How does the introduction of gated content improve a MMO that was supposed to be about freedom, playing how we want to play, playing with friends etc?
It doesn't one bit. Gated content along with the gear treadmill this update has brought you guys makes this game a sham and even more of a chore than it already was.

I used to love this game but this update has torn off my rose colored glasses. Now I see GW2 for what it has always been. A buggy, grindy, mess with mostly static combat instead of the actiony combat we were led to believe was in game. No real character progression since all of your skills and traits are essentially chosen for you and even then if you want to try something different you need to pay for the pleasure of that extravagantly needless luxury. No real endgame as there was only one level 80 zone and it is now too late to add more and even then, their idea of endgame has shifted to crappy, 10 year old traditional, gated grind fest endgame. Now the level 80 zone worth going to will be pretty damn empty as everyone has played it to frigging death. I think it is too late for Anet because what they really should have fixed was the current game and the current profession balance but all they give us is more buggy content and two things that most of this community NEVER WANTED TO SEE AGAIN.

This game had a lot of promise but they broke all of that. Too bad.

#7 bdatty

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

The content certainly does not improve the MMO, and how much freedom do you freaken want, seriously. Wheres a challenge without limits. It's all on the player's mentality not the content itself. I'm at Fractal Level 9, and I play with my guildies or people I've added to friend's list. We're currently helping our guildmates to reach to our level. There is no segregation of the community just people who want to get to the higher level. How they choose to play is up to them.

View PostHector, on 18 November 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

A buggy, grindy, mess with mostly static combat instead of the actiony combat we were led to believe was in game. No real character progression since all of your skills and traits are essentially chosen for you and even then if you want to try something different you need to pay for the pleasure of that extravagantly needless luxury.


Static combat? Did someone forget the dodge key and keeping aware of the situation. What's your description as actiony combat?
Sadly there is no real character progression because people would say, 'oh I have to work for it? omg grind' Though I do agree with what you're saying.

Edited by bdatty, 18 November 2012 - 02:14 PM.


#8 bdatty

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

whoops, double posted-ish....delete this 2nd post.

Edited by bdatty, 18 November 2012 - 02:15 PM.


#9 Red_Falcon

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:17 PM

Didn't Anet say it was only necessary that one member unlocked a specific difficulty and others could join him at his difficulty?
I could swear I read something like that.

#10 RaoulDukeHST

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

View Postnotum, on 18 November 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

yeah, it seems pretty short-sited on their part. honestly i think having the HIGHEST common denominator be the one that determines difficulty would be much better.
you have to earn the level you play at,not have someone boosting you up

#11 madmaxII

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

I think the bigger problem is that you can only search in your instance of LA. There are many difficulty scales and only so many players per map, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets impossible to find a group for the one you want to do at some point.

But then dungeon finder or a similar system is evil and destroys the community so it is better to wait in your instance and spam your "lfg" message hoping that someone will finally join you.

#12 Resolve

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

What's making this worse is that there are so many different levels.

#13 TenderFoot

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:15 PM

I could have sworn Anet said wait for it............................................................................... "Building Community" and now what they did have is now segregation of the community if we all don't run the new dungeon to Keeping up with the Joneses in levels.

Quote

"Keeping up with the Joneses" is an idiom in many parts of the English-speaking world referring to the comparison to one's neighbor as a benchmark for social caste or the accumulation of material goods. To fail to "keep up with the Joneses" is perceived as demonstrating socio-economic or cultural inferiority.

At this point I'm not interested in doing dungeons as I'm doing to other things things first like leveling the rest of my alts, map completion, and WvWvW taking my time and in no rush with the keeping up with the Joneses.

Edited by TenderFoot, 18 November 2012 - 04:00 PM.


#14 Veritus7

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:33 PM

Fractals of The Mist is Flavor of The Month.

ucwutidid

#15 RedStar

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:46 PM

View PostVeritus7, on 18 November 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Fractals of The Mist is Flavor of The Month.

ucwutidid

Yesterday, I thought that this was what people were saying and couldn't understand what they meant because I had forgotten the dungeon's name.

#16 Hector

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:55 PM

View Postbdatty, on 18 November 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Static combat? Did someone forget the dodge key and keeping aware of the situation. What's your description as actiony combat?
Sadly there is no real character progression because people would say, 'oh I have to work for it? omg grind' Though I do agree with what you're saying.
I say static because unlike what their manifesto says, on melee characters I can swing the sword (auto attack), then swing again, then swing my sword again until whatever mob I was facing was dead. I didn't have to dodge or worry about anything because the balance on classes was so shitty that I didn't have to do any of that for the most part except with champion mobs.

So yeah, at least PvE and to an extent WvW wise, that is my definition of static combat.

Edited by Hector, 18 November 2012 - 03:57 PM.


#17 Achromatis

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostBennyandthejets, on 18 November 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

We have all seen it.  If you have stood in LA for more than a few minutes your map chat is filled with LFG FoTM (x).  Now before I begin, I like the new dungeon.  I think its a nice addition, fun, different.  "However" what I do not like is the segregation of the community.  Lets pretend you just got home for the weekend & are excited to participate in the event.  You see people looking for members & join one of the groups only to be deemed unable to do so because you haven't completed fractals 1-23 even though you are more than capable.

Here is the issue:  

You now have 20-30 groups looking for players, & only a small % of players are in the particular fractal.  For example:

Group is looking for fractal 15.  Jimmy wants to come, but Jimmy has only completed up to 13.  Sorry Jimmy, better luck next week.

How does the introduction of gated content improve a MMO that was supposed to be about freedom, playing how we want to play, playing with friends etc?

Its a dungeon designed for "hardcore" players who do dungeons in their usual group and want the challenge or whatever. Not all content has to be designed for all players. People who want to do it casually to see the cool areas can do that, on difficulty level 1. Players who want to get the most out of it can do that, and finding and keeping together a group is part of the challenge IMO.

Wether I agree with the design or not is irrelevant, but in terms of the design intent I dont see the problem.

#18 Dasryn

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

View PostHector, on 18 November 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

I say static because unlike what their manifesto says, on melee characters I can swing the sword (auto attack), then swing again, then swing my sword again until whatever mob I was facing was dead. I didn't have to dodge or worry about anything because the balance on classes was so shitty that I didn't have to do any of that for the most part except with champion mobs.

So yeah, at least PvE and to an extent WvW wise, that is my definition of static combat.

this is just your opinion however.  an opinion i'd have to disagree with.  i cant speak for many of the other classes but as a Guardian, i feel like combat is a blast.  i use sword and shield and greatsword.

i generally engage a fight with the sword and shield, but once those skills are on cooldown, i switch to the GS and use up those skills.  then youve got utilities, virtues, switching back to sword/shield, re applying the armor guard - i mean its fast paced and always keeps me active.  oh and i forgot situational awareness and having to dodge. - this isnt even the start of it, i have to move around teammates to pop the dome and heal them, shouts have the same deal - ok this is getting so long my paragraph structure is falling apart.

but yeah, i would try a different class as it seems you are pretty bored with your current one.

#19 Dasryn

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

also i dont agree with the segregation of the community over these dungeons.  sure there are those elitists that will require things of you, but i havent been a member of a guild that doesnt mind going through those dungeon levels again to get some guildies caught up with content.

players who genuinely enjoy the content will not forsake the late comers.

so if you feel like you are segregated, ask yourself some questions:

1) are you in a guild?

2) if yes, is that guild helpful and friendly and generally include you in guild affairs?

i find it very hard to believe that everyone you run into would be callous and as unforgiving as some in this thread have claimed.

these dungeons are meant for groups to complete/try their hand at.  this is the community building ANet promised.  if you are not taking advantage of that, then you are participating in this content at some other level. get social, get with a good group of fellows and enjoy the content.

#20 Eon Lilu

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

They need to add dungeon finder into the game now more than ever....

Story mode arah.....click...join....teleport....start done.

FOM lvl 4? click ....join....teleport....start...done.

They need dungeon finder in this game = faster runs, more players to play with, less map spamming because of dungeons.

DUNGEON FINDER NEXT PATCH PLZ!!!

#21 Dasryn

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

View PostEon Lilu, on 18 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

They need to add dungeon finder into the game now more than ever....

Story mode arah.....click...join....teleport....start done.

FOM lvl 4? click ....join....teleport....start...done.

They need dungeon finder in this game = faster runs, more players to play with, less map spamming because of dungeons.

DUNGEON FINDER NEXT PATCH PLZ!!!

dungeon finder was not introduced into mmorpgs until wrath of the lich king in wow, that was not too long ago.  prior to the introduction of dungeon finder, players had to make do.  GW2 is not at this stage in development, try and make do.

#22 syndreamer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:42 PM

Now as a requirement for most runs:

1. Have all exotics
2. Must be level 80
3. Must know mechanics of each fractal by level 2
4. Must have stable connection.

Happy instancing!

#23 Ardeni

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

I agree on this. I am stuck on level 3 and haven't found a single group for it. People in my guild are either at level 1 or at ~7 so I am just in between. The dungeon would be much nicer if you could determine the difficulty yourself instead of having to progress through all the difficulty levels.

#24 Azure Skye

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:55 PM

This dungeon is harder then any other ones as you go higher levels and i rather do it with guildies then PuGs.

Edited by Azure Skye, 18 November 2012 - 07:57 PM.


#25 Eon Lilu

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:03 PM

View PostRickter, on 18 November 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

dungeon finder was not introduced into mmorpgs until wrath of the lich king in wow, that was not too long ago.  prior to the introduction of dungeon finder, players had to make do.  GW2 is not at this stage in development, try and make do.

Sorry but group finders / dungeon finders have been in games since a long time now.

#26 cesmode

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:11 PM

Adding to this fire: Fractals do not reset at all either.  So if in a month or two if youre a fresh 80 or took a month or two off, everyone has progressed passed you.  Sure there will be some people on alts lfg on lower level fractals, but most of the people are gone... higher lvls, bigger and better.

HAve fun trying to get a group then.
Ascended gear + fractal levels not resetting = me leaving.

#27 Bryant Again

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:15 PM

What was it exactly they said would've eliminated the need to "LFG" that wasn't a dungeon finder?

View PostRickter, on 18 November 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

dungeon finder was not introduced into mmorpgs until wrath of the lich king in wow, that was not too long ago.  prior to the introduction of dungeon finder, players had to make do.  GW2 is not at this stage in development, try and make do.

I thought Rift had it's dungeon finder at release? Or was it a few months in?

#28 Dasryn

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:47 PM

View PostBryant Again, on 18 November 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

What was it exactly they said would've eliminated the need to "LFG" that wasn't a dungeon finder?



I thought Rift had it's dungeon finder at release? Or was it a few months in?

few months in.  and rift launched march of 2011 i thought, wrath was in a little before that.

and honestly does it matter? its a trend that wow started and we were able to get a long fine before it.  im sure it will be implemented soon to GW2, but until then, we just have to sit tight right?

#29 Runkleford

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

And in the meantime places like Orr are ghost towns. Just me and the undead. All alone.

#30 Dasryn

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:53 PM

View PostRunkleford, on 18 November 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

And in the meantime places like Orr are ghost towns. Just me and the undead. All alone.

the lone vigil amoungst a sea of undead horrors.  the last beacon of hope in defiance of Zhaitan.  the light shown through the veil of death and decay.

we can spin this all different kinds of ways. ;P




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