31 replies to this topic

[Ponzio]

People always complain about thieves, mesmers and atm warriors (third whine slot is on rotation   ) but I personaly believe the real hero class the one class that can beat any other class if played right is the engineer. I play engineer myself so its not a "you dont know the class" issue, but from time to time in tournaments and hot joins I face engineers that are more or less invincible and destroy everything, basicaly winning the game alone. This is not a whine thread and I dont want nerfs but after talking with some guildies it feels like the majority of the gw2 player base has no clue about the engi at all and its potential.

Edited by Ponzio, 19 November 2012 - 12:00 AM.

[Athletic]

Agree and dissagree.

Condi engi's are indeed very good, but can also be heavily countered. For example by a necro, ele, even some ranger specs. That and power engi's aren't that great, other classes can do the same thing but much better.

Engineer is at a good spot though and what I think should be the focal point of balance. They're good in pve, wvw and pvp which is not something that can be said about most classes.

[MrForz]

I've done and made alot of experiences, duelling, harrassing, surviving, running for my life, putting up a tough fight, tanking, being weird and unpredictable, supporting others, being assigned to pretty much all the roles. There's this warmonger feeling that gets you to be useful everywhere you are.

Having 3 builds and only playing the Engineer, yes. You may not say 'Overpowered' but just 'Pain in the arse'. May it be Berserker Rifle, Carrion+Rabid Pistol-Pistol/Shield, or even going full tank. It always has something to share. And most of Engineers get to be different from eachother on top of the fact that we aren't quite popular AND that we can be built as we please and remain efficient. It makes us unpredictable.

The only problems I ever noticed were... well, believe me or not, Necros are a pain for us, all the other classes I faced were about mid-duel decisions.

For the rest, on other games, I used to be torn between different classes with only the desire to mix them. Engi's my first, and only class I want to play. It is fun and does everything I expect it to do, while not being complained about.

Long live the Engineer.

Edited by MrForz, 19 November 2012 - 01:56 AM.

[Dirame]

I agree that they are badass but not OP. I fought many an engi on my necro and I occasionally play one myself and i can definitely say they are the one class that exemplify what i think anet wants from all their classes.

All hail the Engineer.

[AetherMcLoud]

IMHO engineer is one of the (if not THE) most balanced classes in the game, and was since release. They are good but not too good, have good bunker and burst builds both which have reasonable counters too, and they can build pretty much any way they want and use a lot of their utilities and still be viable.

[Forest]

Ponzio, on 18 November 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

People always complain about thieves, mesmers and atm warriors (third whine slot is on rotation   ) but I personaly believe the real hero class the one class that can beat any other class if played right is the engineer. I play engineer myself so its not a "you dont know the class" issue, but from time to time in tournaments and hot joins I face engineers that are more or less invincible and destroy everything, basicaly winning the game alone. This is not a whine thread and I dont want nerfs but after talking with some guildies it feels like the majority of the gw2 player base has no clue about the engi at all and its potential.

Weakness: Engineers
Projectiles. Engineers, out of any class, have the worst time against projectile reflection or protection. No matter how you build an Engineer, your combos will always include a skill is consider a "projectile" because most of your skills are consider "projectiles". ie: skill 1-3 on pistol, skill 1-4 on rifle, all grenades, etc. This is, by design, a flaw of Engineer Class.

I think the the problem is that no one knows how to fight an engineer. But that's not an issue because there are not many to fight anyways.

[Mr Shrimp]

Forest, on 19 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Weakness: Engineers
Projectiles. Engineers, out of any class, have the worst time against projectile reflection or protection. No matter how you build an Engineer, your combos will always include a skill is consider a "projectile" because most of your skills are consider "projectiles". ie: skill 1-3 on pistol, skill 1-4 on rifle, all grenades, etc. This is, by design, a flaw of Engineer Class.

Well unless you run a bomb kit build for sPvP.

[AetherMcLoud]

I'd say condition builds are an engy weakness seeing as they usually don't have a condition removal utility and their other removals aren't that good.

Projectile Reflection and Retaliation isn't really a weakness, it's so rare you don't see it that often.

[Ponzio]

AetherMcLoud, on 20 November 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

I'd say condition builds are an engy weakness seeing as they usually don't have a condition removal utility and their other removals aren't that good.

Well you can build an engi with decent/very good condition defense but outside of a bunker build it would really make you ineffective.

[Killyox]

Ponzio, on 18 November 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

People always complain about thieves, mesmers and atm warriors (third whine slot is on rotation   ) but I personaly believe the real hero class the one class that can beat any other class if played right is the engineer. I play engineer myself so its not a "you dont know the class" issue, but from time to time in tournaments and hot joins I face engineers that are more or less invincible and destroy everything, basicaly winning the game alone. This is not a whine thread and I dont want nerfs but after talking with some guildies it feels like the majority of the gw2 player base has no clue about the engi at all and its potential.

Now make a screenshot of how many hours have you played on your engineer and how many pvp games you have had with it. Please, do so.

[redslion]

AetherMcLoud, on 20 November 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

I'd say condition builds are an engy weakness seeing as they usually don't have a condition removal utility and their other removals aren't that good.

20 points in tools, Fast-acting Elixir Trait in Alchemy, Elixir C in utilities.

We have a 40 seconds cooldown condition mass removal. With fast-acting elixirs, we get 32 seconds cooldown.
AND we have the toolbelt, which removes 5 conditions in 5 seconds, on a 30 seconds cooldown. With tools, it's 25 seconds.

It's like we had one every 25x32/(25+32)= 14 seconds. Not bad, huh?XD

[Arkham Creed]

Mr Shrimp, on 19 November 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Well unless you run a bomb kit build for sPvP.

Also, flamethrower.

redslion, on 20 November 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

20 points in tools, Fast-acting Elixir Trait in Alchemy, Elixir C in utilities.

We have a 40 seconds cooldown condition mass removal. With fast-acting elixirs, we get 32 seconds cooldown.
AND we have the toolbelt, which removes 5 conditions in 5 seconds, on a 30 seconds cooldown. With tools, it's 25 seconds.

It's like we had one every 25x32/(25+32)= 14 seconds. Not bad, huh?XD

Let’s not forget about Cleansing Formula (409); that combined with a heavy elixir build makes pretty much all your utilities, including the tool belt versions, into condition removal skills. Not sure if it works with Hidden Flask though…that may be OP.

[redslion]

Actually, cleaning formula removes only one condition per elixir. I must admit I don't like that very much.

[Killyox]

redslion, on 20 November 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

20 points in tools, Fast-acting Elixir Trait in Alchemy, Elixir C in utilities.

We have a 40 seconds cooldown condition mass removal. With fast-acting elixirs, we get 32 seconds cooldown.
AND we have the toolbelt, which removes 5 conditions in 5 seconds, on a 30 seconds cooldown. With tools, it's 25 seconds.

It's like we had one every 25x32/(25+32)= 14 seconds. Not bad, huh?XD

Sorry but you have no idea how toss elixir c works.

Edited by Killyox, 21 November 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[redslion]

Ok, I just read it from a guide. I tried it a couple times in pvp, and it seemed to me it worked in a similar manner. But it's hard to test condition removals, considering no NPC in the mists use them extensively and in sPvP you have to defend yourself.

However, this is how I got it works:

I use it and I create a field.

Then every second the field converts one condition into one boon.

The field lasts 5 seconds.

Actually, the tooltip says another thing. I know, but the times I tossed it I noted more conditions disappeared before the duration. Not just one. Did this happen to other people, or it was just a fluke (like other guys removing conditions)?

[Calebrus]

Using Form409 pigeonholes us into an elixir build to remove conditions.  I find elixir builds boring.

Instead, I use either Med Kit [one condition removal on a 15s CD - preferred] or Healing Turret [overcharge removes conditions].
Couple either of these with Elixir Gun traited with Kit Refinement. Super Elixir [skill 5] is AoE condition removal with an AoE HoT for ten seconds on a 20 second CD. KR automatically drops one for us on kit swap, same duration, same CD.
One duration ends, the other gets used. That duration ends, the first one is ready again.
That's a permanent light field.  As someone above pointed out, we have troubles against ranged reflects because the extreme majority of our attacks are projectiles.
Guess what projectiles do in a light field?
Yep, remove more conditions.
Over a thirty second period, that's two from Antidote and three from Super Elixirs, or one condition removed every six seconds on average.  And that's before taking projectiles through light field is even added in.

That's a lot of condition removal using only things that you will probably find useful anyway, and equipping an Elixir Gun.  And to be honest, I find Elixir Gun to the the most complete package of a kit that we have, and it never leaves my skill bar.
Put ten points into Tools and keep an EG on your bar [similar to saving a utility for condition removal on any other profession, only this one comes with a LOT more use than condition removal], and you can then spec your Engy any way you want and never worry about conditions.  If you decide to go 20 in Alchemy and trait Formula 409 on top of that you will never, ever, fear conditions again.  It's so much condition removal that most of it becomes redundant.

Edited by Calebrus, 22 November 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[Red_Falcon]

Ponzio, on 18 November 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

People always complain about thieves, mesmers and atm warriors (third whine slot is on rotation   ) but I personaly believe the real hero class the one class that can beat any other class if played right is the engineer. I play engineer myself so its not a "you dont know the class" issue, but from time to time in tournaments and hot joins I face engineers that are more or less invincible and destroy everything, basicaly winning the game alone. This is not a whine thread and I dont want nerfs but after talking with some guildies it feels like the majority of the gw2 player base has no clue about the engi at all and its potential.

All classes can beat any other class and cause distruction, Engineer isn't anything special in this sense.
Engi isn't more of a hero class than a well-played Warrior, Ele, Thief, Guardian... GW2 has hero players not hero classes.

[Alex Dimitri]

Heheh Engi hero class, this made me laugh so much !
Engineer is so broken class that is not even funny, everything they can do some other class can do much better.
Jack of all trades yes but master at absolutely none !!!
I tried i made it my first char when game started only to come to 80 gear him up and see that i can`t do anything useful....mine actually only collects Orichalcum nodes on Cursed Shore now.

Check WvW and ring a bell if you see one, you will hear bell at least 3 times for entire evening !
Go PvP and scream and run when you see Necro (true condition master) !
Go PvE/Dungeon and get bitch slapped to downed state by everything.....

Engineers need some dev Loving and fast.....

[MrForz]

Mhm, alright.

Class diversity totally depends of mindsets and taste. Everyone's about the barbarian / assassin's creed clone / holy paladin / dark deathlord of doom and other mages.

Concerning yourself. Just because you can't handle this class doesn't mean that you got to spit on it or that it's bad. I handle the Elementalist gameplay just like a chicken handles a fork, never been my cup of tea, although I cross quite a handful of them being a pain in the arse.

Although if you insist about giving Engineers some love, I'm fine with it, but I'm sure as hell that there won't be alot of people that will be on my side.

Edited by MrForz, 27 November 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[redslion]

Ok, tested Toss Elixir C. It works as stated. Don't know what happened all those times my conditions got canceled. Sorry.


Well, I kill warriors with a wrench. So fun to see them try to take me down and see them lose all hopes.XD

[Runkleford]

Alex Dimitri, on 27 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Heheh Engi hero class, this made me laugh so much !
Engineer is so broken class that is not even funny, everything they can do some other class can do much better.
Jack of all trades yes but master at absolutely none !!!
I tried i made it my first char when game started only to come to 80 gear him up and see that i can`t do anything useful....mine actually only collects Orichalcum nodes on Cursed Shore now.

Check WvW and ring a bell if you see one, you will hear bell at least 3 times for entire evening !
Go PvP and scream and run when you see Necro (true condition master) !
Go PvE/Dungeon and get bitch slapped to downed state by everything.....

Engineers need some dev Loving and fast.....

Wow looks like it's just you who has problems. I've had no trouble in ANY of those modes of play that you're complaining about.

[Alex Dimitri]

Runkleford, on 29 November 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

Wow looks like it's just you who has problems. I've had no trouble in ANY of those modes of play that you're complaining about.

I have no problem since i don`t play it anymore, but it`s evident that class is weak (compared to others) not unplayable !

[Budzasty]

Engi while not shining in any particular area is also well balanced class that does solid job in every task. Which in game with no healer/tank class is powerful tool in hand of experienced player. I also feel some easy mode class combos(100b, backstab, double shatter) will see more balancing in time, which in turn will make engi not fall behind in terms of burst/condi damage.

Alex Dimitri, on 27 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Go PvE/Dungeon and get bitch slapped to downed state by everything.....

Seems you just can't play engi well, I have no issues with staying alive in PvE(dungeons/fractals) and I'm not even a bunker.

[Alex Dimitri]

So your version of better Engi is to wait for other classes to get nerfed ?
I`m so sad that GW2 doesn`t have duel system, that way we could easily settle so many....who is...what is better !
Btw i have 7 lvl 80 full geared characters (had 8 but i deleted Thief, since i hate them) i`m pretty sure i know a lot about every class i played, strangely enough on GW2 start Engi was my first pick .

[Forest]

Alex Dimitri, on 30 November 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

So your version of better Engi is to wait for other classes to get nerfed ?
I`m so sad that GW2 doesn`t have duel system, that way we could easily settle so many....who is...what is better !
Btw i have 7 lvl 80 full geared characters (had 8 but i deleted Thief, since i hate them) i`m pretty sure i know a lot about every class i played, strangely enough on GW2 start Engi was my first pick .

Engineers are a very high skill level class. If I released one of the hidden high skill level builds, I can guarantee you many nerfs to the class.


Please, let the buffing continue. /chuckle

AetherMcLoud, on 20 November 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

I'd say condition builds are an engy weakness seeing as they usually don't have a condition removal utility and their other removals aren't that good.

Projectile Reflection and Retaliation isn't really a weakness, it's so rare you don't see it that often.

There was a recent ninja buff in the latest patch. Projectile Reflection is now only a minor issue now.

Edited by Forest, 30 November 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[MrForz]

Forest, on 30 November 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Engineers are a very high skill level class. If I released one of the hidden high skill level builds, I can guarantee you many nerfs to the class.

Let's share.

[Killyox]

redslion, on 21 November 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Ok, I just read it from a guide. I tried it a couple times in pvp, and it seemed to me it worked in a similar manner. But it's hard to test condition removals, considering no NPC in the mists use them extensively and in sPvP you have to defend yourself.

However, this is how I got it works:

I use it and I create a field.

Then every second the field converts one condition into one boon.

The field lasts 5 seconds.

Actually, the tooltip says another thing. I know, but the times I tossed it I noted more conditions disappeared before the duration. Not just one. Did this happen to other people, or it was just a fluke (like other guys removing conditions)?

Nope. It does not. Thus my previous statement stands.

It converts 1 condition and just once. That "duration 5 sec" doesn't mean anything.

redslion, on 27 November 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Ok, tested Toss Elixir C. It works as stated. Don't know what happened all those times my conditions got canceled. Sorry.


Well, I kill warriors with a wrench. So fun to see them try to take me down and see them lose all hopes.XD

Ah, i see you have seen it yourself

Edited by Killyox, 03 December 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[Garethh]

Calebrus, on 22 November 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Guess what projectiles do in a light field?
Yep, remove more conditions.

Engi's have a good number of projectiles but terrible number of projectile finishers.
The only projectile combo short of a toolkit ability or 2 is on the weapon spammables... and that only removes a condition on one out of every 5 combos...
I had the same thought and finally decided the field just has to be used by other classes for notable condi removal....

Alex Dimitri, on 27 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Heheh Engi hero class, this made me laugh so much !
Engineer is so broken class that is not even funny, everything they can do some other class can do much better.
Jack of all trades yes but master at absolutely none !!!

Wow... seems someone took a quote from the ranger forums....

Engi's are good.
If you think they are so bad they are unplayable... then you either are playing an utterly terrible spec or just are bad...
><

Edited by Garethh, 04 December 2012 - 07:43 PM.

[kilger]

Forest, on 30 November 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Engineers are a very high skill level class. If I released one of the hidden high skill level builds, I can guarantee you many nerfs to the class.

And thats still only half as good as my ultra super secret cia skill level build, which would be nerfed upon uttering the first traitline!!!

[MrForz]

kilger, on 07 December 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

And thats still only half as good as my ultra super secret cia skill level build, which would be nerfed upon uttering the first traitline!!!

Amateurs! They'd nerf all the utility skills to the ground if I ever evocated one detail of my super high skill build.