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Best dungeon spec for Ranger using shortbow


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#31 My Sweet Lily

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:50 AM

View Postdynia666, on 26 November 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

oh yes rly grat dps 200 > 400 dmg from 1st skill when you can get condi dmg 50 > 120 tick per sec and ALSO lot of tou helps you surival lol when using knight gear
Sorry, but I don't hit low as 200 > 400 dmg with 1st skill. I get constantly crits hitting 1,1k. Seriously, constantly (when I rarely don't crit, I hit for ~500). And not just single target, but AoE, thanks to Piercing Arrows trait. Added to that, I get 48(?) bleed dmg ticking away as a bonus dmg, along with a long poison from skill 3 (shoot it next to the enemy, so that all arrows hit it+enemies all around, thanks to Piercing Arrows trait).
   And who need toughness, if you are good player? I have 2 rings+back with power/toughness/crit dmg, just as a ''safe-net'' if I get too many hits. Like I said earlier, my play style is jumpy, constantly dodging with couple of skills and, well, using dodge. Thanks to a trait, I get a faster endurance regen, which helps, along with Vigor from Lightning Reflexes. This means:I don't get hit. Only thing that kills me, is Agony, and that only appears in Fractals. BUT yesterday I got my quiver ready, so I have no problem surviving Agony (until I hit lvl 20+, but then I have already infused the quiver for more resistance).

#32 Dahk

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:43 PM

More toughness means you spend less time dodging.  Less dodging means more dpsing.  I'm not saying that a jumpy play style is bad (it isn't), but it's not without it's trade-offs.

#33 Belzebu

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

View Postsjin_ftw, on 26 November 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Unfortunately prices have almost doubled since I started saving, so exotic Berserker armor pieces are now 4.5gp instead 2.5gp each.
Look for lvl 76~78 exotics, those are better than lvl 80 rares and cheaper than exotics.

#34 Garimeth

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:36 PM

View Postdynia666, on 26 November 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

oh yes rly grat dps 200 > 400 dmg from 1st skill when you can get condi dmg 50 > 120 tick per sec and ALSO lot of tou helps you surival lol when using knight gear

Only troll here is you.  I have done the testing, find it here: http://www.guildwars...30#entry2098735

Straight damage on the shortbow outdamages the longbow or a condition build with the shortbow.  The only time you will outdamage a short bow crit build with a condi build is with carrion gear when you have traps off CD and flank entire fight.  And with knights set?  Get out of here with your nonsense, knights is no where near as good as carrion for a condition build in terms of dps and carrion spcs for survivability as well.  And if you are running carrion over rampagers then sigil of earth is a waste as well.

Sorry, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.  I also don't feed troll but wanted you to be refuted by numbers for people who stumble across this later.  If you are so confident its better damage then post your proof.  I'm only going to respond to you again if you bring some numbers and attempt to use something approaching actual grammar.

#35 dynia666

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:48 AM

View PostGarimeth, on 27 November 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Only troll here is you.  I have done the testing, find it here: http://www.guildwars...30#entry2098735

Straight damage on the shortbow outdamages the longbow or a condition build with the shortbow.  The only time you will outdamage a short bow crit build with a condi build is with carrion gear when you have traps off CD and flank entire fight.  And with knights set?  Get out of here with your nonsense, knights is no where near as good as carrion for a condition build in terms of dps and carrion spcs for survivability as well.  And if you are running carrion over rampagers then sigil of earth is a waste as well.

Sorry, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.  I also don't feed troll but wanted you to be refuted by numbers for people who stumble across this later.  If you are so confident its better damage then post your proof.  I'm only going to respond to you again if you bring some numbers and attempt to use something approaching actual grammar.

rly learn about dps from bleeds ...

more crit rate you got more bleeds you deal ... 1 skill bleed, rune of earth bleed from crit and bleed from crit from traints + you lost over 60 dmg per stack on bleed ...

10 stack no items 400 dmg per sec condi dmg setup with 10 stack is 1200 dmg per sec + you deal some dmg any1 from normal dmg and crits

Edited by dynia666, 03 December 2012 - 12:49 AM.


#36 Dahk

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:07 AM

View Postdynia666, on 03 December 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:


more crit rate you got more bleeds you deal ... 1 skill bleed, rune of earth bleed from crit and bleed from crit from traints + you lost over 60 dmg per stack on bleed ...

The bleed on crit talent only gives you a 1 second bleed, which is pretty insignificant.  30% additional damage on all your pet crits will give you more damage.

#37 dynia666

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:41 AM

View PostDahk, on 03 December 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

The bleed on crit talent only gives you a 1 second bleed, which is pretty insignificant.  30% additional damage on all your pet crits will give you more damage.

it was gear zerk vs condi one you still can get traints for pet and use condi dmg setup gear

#38 Trei

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:46 AM

View PostMy Sweet Lily, on 23 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

....
   "Search and Rescue" still shines, and like Malsh said, the pet also resses defeated foes.....
Say what again?
Why that little Traitor!

lol...

Edited by Trei, 04 December 2012 - 08:48 AM.


#39 Jornemormel

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:50 AM

View PostDahk, on 03 December 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

The bleed on crit talent only gives you a 1 second bleed, which is pretty insignificant.  30% additional damage on all your pet crits will give you more damage.

This is something I'd question. Obviously the condition damage is very gear based.

But in a normal scenario I find myself swapping pets almost on cooldown. When I do my pet first has to reach a foe to hit before the 30% critical damage increase can have any effect. Not to mention using F3 for protecting the pet. Or god forbid that fluffy had just taken a fatal hit and pet swapping is now on cooldown.

There's plenty of situations in dungeons where I find my pet being unable to attack. So acting as 30% increased critical damage for your pet is always better is a bit short sighted, imo.

#40 Dahk

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

If you're swapping melee pets, then you'll want to be near your enemy for the swap, regardless of what talents you take so that you don't lose damage from a pet having to run to your target (defeats the purpose of the quickness for the most part).  If your pets are too squishy or if you're running a build with a small investment in BM, then a ranged pet will solve both the problem of your pet dying and the problem of losing dps from pet not being in range.

#41 My Sweet Lily

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

View PostTrei, on 04 December 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Say what again?
Why that little Traitor!

lol...
Oh lol, my bad, I meant, of course, allies.

#42 Shiren

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:36 PM

What about running a rampager/carrion set with 2 krait runes, 2 afflicted runes and 2 centaur runes? You get a big boost in bleeding duration which can really help bring the number of stacks you can have at any point in time. Tossing up between sigil of earth or agony (I feel like earth would be better so you have a chance to stack some bleeds even if you can't flank your opponent).

#43 Acidfix

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:42 AM

The thing about the sigil that bleeds on crit is it has a cooldown. The best sigil is 5% crit chance. There are others that are great as well but they cost 4-5g. like the 10% chance on crit to get 10 seconds of Might or on weapon switch you get 20 seconds of Might.

#44 SpelignErrir

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:09 PM

View PostAcidfix, on 19 December 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

The thing about the sigil that bleeds on crit is it has a cooldown. The best sigil is 5% crit chance. There are others that are great as well but they cost 4-5g. like the 10% chance on crit to get 10 seconds of Might or on weapon switch you get 20 seconds of Might.

Lol, what? Sigil of Accuracy is a terrible sigil. Sigil of force is better. 5% more damage on your crits AND non crits is far better than a 5% extra chance to crit.

#45 Nucko

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 01:49 PM

View PostSpelignErrir, on 23 December 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Lol, what? Sigil of Accuracy is a terrible sigil. Sigil of force is better. 5% more damage on your crits AND non crits is far better than a 5% extra chance to crit.
Simply untrue, and displays a lack of understanding of da mathz. ;)
It depends on the other stats ofc, (in this case mainly crit dmg) but there are clear cases running a high precision/critdmg build 5% more crit chance is going to outperform 5% increased dmg.

Lets say we have 50% crit chance and 55% crit dmg and compare the two, starting with an default dmg of say 500:
Our average dmg output is therefore 750. (Half the time 500 and other half 1000 dmg, since u crit half of the time and dmg is then 200%)

With 5% increase in dmg this our average jumps up 37.5. (5% of 750)

With 5% more crit chance our average dmg is pretty much equal to that. (0.45*500+0.55*(500*2.05) = 788.25  II  An increase of 38.75)

Anything above 55% critdmg and and sigil of accuracy easily outperforms sigil of force,  anything below force is better. Da mathz is never wrongz.

#46 lightninstrikr

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:58 AM

So to recap:
I want 50%-55% crit chance.
If crit dmg < 55% i want sigil of force, if crit dmg > 55% i want sigil of accuracy.
Switch pets and weps often for fury/qz/swiftness.
Flank when possible for bleeds but not main focus.

Would you ever recommend sigil of might? I've been running http://www.guildhead...0z9qxpf9MzkRMao and focusing on crit/cnd dmg but i am beginning to dislike it.  We often hit the bleed cap and I feel too squishy for the amount of dmg I do.  I have a sigil of might on my bow and can reliably keep 5-10 stacks on myself solo in any fight 6s or longer (mainly liked it for the boost in cnd dmg).

#47 TastySlop

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

View PostNucko, on 24 December 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Lets say we have 50% crit chance and 55% crit dmg and compare the two, starting with an default dmg of say 500:

Sigil of Force = (0.5 * 500 + 0.5 * (500 * 2.05)) * 1.05 = 800.625

Sigil of Accuracy = (0.45 * 500 + 0.55 * (500 * 2.05)) = 788.75

Using Sigil of Force does more damage than Sigil of Accuracy. You would only want Sigil of Accuracy if you wanted to increase some other "on crit" effect.  Actually, I wouldn't take either since I prefer to stack might with sigil of strength.

If you are doing a crit/conditions build, you want rabid armor (condition damage/precision/toughness). I think this is what the person who said knights armor meant.

#48 My Sweet Lily

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:55 AM

Hello, I have a few questions.
   I recently swapped my Runes of the Pack to Runes of the Ranger. I saw my crit dmg and crit chance go up, but when I tested this change in Fractals, I saw my arrows dealing 200-300 less crit dmg. I understand this is because of the lost Power, but I had swapped the Sigil of Accuracy to Sigil of Force, to replace the lost Power. So:
1.Should I swap the Sigil of Force back to Sigil of Accuracy.
2.Was it a bad move to change my Runes?

Soon I'm getting my last piece of Ascended gear and when I get the Ring, my Power and crit dmg will rise, hopefully back to the 1,1-1,3k crits. I know 2 things about my stats, when I'm fully geared. I'll have 102% crit dmg and 52% crit chance and Attack should be over 3000.

#49 Nucko

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:58 AM

View PostTastySlop, on 25 December 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:


Sigil of Force = (0.5 * 500 + 0.5 * (500 * 2.05)) * 1.05 = 800.625

Sigil of Accuracy = (0.45 * 500 + 0.55 * (500 * 2.05)) = 788.75

Using Sigil of Force does more damage than Sigil of Accuracy. You would only want Sigil of Accuracy if you wanted to increase some other "on crit" effect.  Actually, I wouldn't take either since I prefer to stack might with sigil of strength.

If you are doing a crit/conditions build, you want rabid armor (condition damage/precision/toughness). I think this is what the person who said knights armor meant.

My bad, I started out with an example of 50% in both crit chance and crit dmg, and forgot to change some of the numbers in my examples. I got my panties in a bunch, and above mathz is correct.
But still, claiming that the Force is way ahead of the Accuracy is just not true. In these examples we haven't considered all that extra damage that comes with the 5% extra crit chance, like extra triggered bleeds and whatever else you may have connected with a critical hit.

#50 TastySlop

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

Unless you have specced for maximum condition damage and bleed duration, any bleeds you apply will likely be reducing overall damage in a group situation where your crappy bleeds are substituting for someone else's potent bleeds due to the stacking cap.

#51 Nucko

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:17 PM

View PostTastySlop, on 26 December 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Unless you have specced for maximum condition damage and bleed duration, any bleeds you apply will likely be reducing overall damage in a group situation where your crappy bleeds are substituting for someone else's potent bleeds due to the stacking cap.

Possibly, but this conclusion rests on factors we have no idea about. We might be the only bleeder in the group. I was responding simply to the idea that the Sigil of Accuracy was vastly inferior to the Sigil of Force in terms of damage output of a single player.

#52 Acidfix

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:45 AM

View PostNucko, on 26 December 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

My bad, I started out with an example of 50% in both crit chance and crit dmg, and forgot to change some of the numbers in my examples. I got my panties in a bunch, and above mathz is correct.
But still, claiming that the Force is way ahead of the Accuracy is just not true. In these examples we haven't considered all that extra damage that comes with the 5% extra crit chance, like extra triggered bleeds and whatever else you may have connected with a critical hit.

Yes. Bleed on Crit, Pet does 30% more dmg on crit, ect,ect. That is why Sigil of Accuracy is better. Im not saying it is better by far but it is in fact better.

I have been playing with allot of crit/condition/crit dmg (with the right amount of crit dmg) builds. I am finding it to be the best balance overall if you play it right. Yes you can just go full crit/crit dmg and do well just with short bow auto attack but, it seem's that about 55% crit with about 550 condition dmg is the sweet spot for Solo, Events and Dungeons. This is with a Zerker Short Bow and Rampager Axe/ Tourch (or Horn depending on what your doing)

The main thing is you dont want to focus to much on condition dmg since it tops at 25 stacks. But you also dont want low condition dmg since it can make a pretty big difference. Power/Crit are still the main stats you want just because that is how it is for rangers right now, but  so far it seems condition dmg can be a great thing. Ive been running 20/20/15/0/15 for a long while now and with 4zerker/2rampager with a mixed set of accessories you can get where Im at. This play style may not be for all though. Just because you do have to focus on stacking your bleeds rather then just short bow auto attack with a full crit build.


#53 hellrazor22

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:45 AM

Ok so now when we discussed dmg for SB crit build, I wonder how much toughnes/armor are you running usually?I find it that with full zerkers gear I almost get 1 shoted in dungeons if I dont dodge.

#54 Himei

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

View PostGarimeth, on 20 November 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:


Nothing to adto this, just want to re-afirm that this is VERY good advce.  Alot of people ignore the flexibilty rangers have to change builds mid run through pets/traits swapping.

I third this.  For a ranger, its essential to change traits, weapons, skills and pets for the right situation.  I feel the other professions dont need to change their build as often compared to a ranger to be just as effective.




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