136 replies to this topic

[crowsnest bomber]

Been trying out a lot of builds since the patch and just keep coming back to sd.. Some bs builds are super strong and probably more viable but their just not very fun.. For me,  dynamically combining infiltrator strike, c n d, tac strike,  auto attack, shadow return and even flanking strike is just straight up more fun..

Btw,  Rune of mesmer seems to be working as it should if u feel that way inclined

[funkybudda]

crowsnest bomber, on 05 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Btw,  Rune of mesmer seems to be working as it should if u feel that way inclined

Really? I would like to see more confirmation from others regarding Runes of Mesmer working with the dazed duration increase.

[realmisr]

For all who claims they need more info, they're just being lazy.

The mists is there for a reason, go test it out on some golems!

I've done my testing, it's not worth using imo. Much better runes/sigils out there.

[Gaaroth]

realmisr, on 05 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

For all who claims they need more info, they're just being lazy.

The mists is there for a reason, go test it out on some golems!

I've done my testing, it's not worth using imo. Much better runes/sigils out there.

agree...they work but they do not provide the same benefits as before.
i've switched into a more agressive setup (scholar/ogre) and it kicks asses

[LifeScarcity]

realmisr, on 05 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

For all who claims they need more info, they're just being lazy.

The mists is there for a reason, go test it out on some golems!

I've done my testing, it's not worth using imo. Much better runes/sigils out there.

^Pretty much that.Ive done my testing myself but I didnt see any difference.
Go aggressive brothers.!

[Rendar]

Figured  I would give this build a try.

Just curious as to how most of you play it?

It would seem obvious that the best way would be in open with Infiltrators, hit CnD, Get behind them and use the stun, then autoattack untill stun wears off, hit CnD and repeat.

Is that pretty much the basics?  Then just use Infiltrators and shadow step for closing the gap, and hit shadow return if you get in over your head?

[Gaaroth]

Rendar, on 07 December 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Figured  I would give this build a try.

Just curious as to how most of you play it?

It would seem obvious that the best way would be in open with Infiltrators, hit CnD, Get behind them and use the stun, then autoattack untill stun wears off, hit CnD and repeat.

Is that pretty much the basics?  Then just use Infiltrators and shadow step for closing the gap, and hit shadow return if you get in over your head?

yes that's pretty much the way..but on long fights (bosses) you can keep that only if u make a 0/0/20/25/25 build.
the tips are:
- keep infiltrator's strike's shadow return always up : is your main stunbreaker/condi removal;
- #1 sword combo is your main sustained aoe damage output, particularly the third slice hits hard and puts vurn/crippl: try always to complete the combo;
- shame for CnD and #4 nerfs, but they still make good things;
- bout #3, think it as an initiative based dodge, hitting hard if the whole combo completes (needs a bit of timing/positioning...);

whit a dodge/hide build (0/0/20/25/25) you can focus on aggressive jewels/runes/sigils and still be fairly tanky (so easily switchable from/to a glasscannon build)

[realmisr]

If you do 0/0/20/25/25, you might as well go condi build...without critical strikes nor deadly arts, you'd be dealing mediocre damage at best...to the point where even if you can daze them a lot, it'd take you forever to kill someone...

[Gaaroth]

don't forge

realmisr, on 07 December 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

If you do 0/0/20/25/25, you might as well go condi build...without critical strikes nor deadly arts, you'd be dealing mediocre damage at best...to the point where even if you can daze them a lot, it'd take you forever to kill someone...

don't forget runes/sigils/jewels....the most of the damage comes from there

[realmisr]

runes/sigils are half the battle...but critical strikes + deadly arts are the other half.

Without CS, you're losing a ton of damage by itself since you're losing a ton of precision, thus no crits. Not to mention "first strikes" and "executioner" which when active is 30% more dmg.

Same deal with DA, except not as crucial as CS. The damage is in these traits...

I really don't see the point in doing 0/0/20/25/25 for s/d...the only sort of classes you'd be able to kill fast are true glass cannons, and they can pretty much kill you easy too if you make a mistake...

[Gaaroth]

realmisr, on 07 December 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

runes/sigils are half the battle...but critical strikes + deadly arts are the other half.

Without CS, you're losing a ton of damage by itself since you're losing a ton of precision, thus no crits. Not to mention "first strikes" and "executioner" which when active is 30% more dmg.

Same deal with DA, except not as crucial as CS. The damage is in these traits...

I really don't see the point in doing 0/0/20/25/25 for s/d...the only sort of classes you'd be able to kill fast are true glass cannons, and they can pretty much kill you easy too if you make a mistake...

i'm testing out that build for some days and i have to say that you are right...i do not see any benefit for 25 in trickery so i'm switching back to 0/30/20/20/0, maybe i'll tryto put some points in deadly arts but i do not know from where get them

[Exelcia]

Hi guys!
I'm also using a s/d build with 0/30/20/20/0 and I'm wondering what are the well balanced stat for this kind of build. I think it's best to put berserk for the jewels but I'm hesitating for the stat of my armor... Full berserk too (since with we have +200 toughness and +200 vitality thanks to the traits) or Knight or Valkyrie? or a mix of 2 sets?

I don't know what limit we must reach in order to have a well balanced build... Such as X in power, Y in %crit, etc. If you have some clues, I would be glad to hear them

PS : I didn't mention it, but it's a build for my WvW play time.

[Hollowperspectiv]

Exelcia, on 08 December 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Hi guys!
I'm also using a s/d build with 0/30/20/20/0 and I'm wondering what are the well balanced stat for this kind of build. I think it's best to put berserk for the jewels but I'm hesitating for the stat of my armor... Full berserk too (since with we have +200 toughness and +200 vitality thanks to the traits) or Knight or Valkyrie? or a mix of 2 sets?

I don't know what limit we must reach in order to have a well balanced build... Such as X in power, Y in %crit, etc. If you have some clues, I would be glad to hear them

PS : I didn't mention it, but it's a build for my WvW play time.

I ran 0/30/20/20/0 for some time. i found this to be a good balance.

http://gw2skills.net...nowxgjAHLOOck4A

sigil of rage/accuracy on both weapon sets
not necessary to go three signet just what i did.


My latest try outs im running this..

http://gw2skills.net...voMyYkwIrROjkGB

kill just as fast but has the come back effect from regen
same sigil rage/accuracy for better haste procs

[Shroomhead Fred]

Picpoc, on 04 December 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Note the above testing was done in PvP against target Dummies. The guide you linked is for WvW. In WvW the skill + sigil is still lasting 3 seconds for me as near as I can tell.

This is important to note if you didn't already know.

I personally find the sigil still worth it for WvW, but i wouldn't pick it up for sPvP.

[Fade_Guin]

Just spent a session in WvW as S/D. Wow, what a nice change! I've tried a variety of load outs, pretty much everything except D/D, and I have to say, S/D is even more survivable than my P/D vit/tough/cond build, plus fairly bursty. I was reluctant to try it out, but it seems really good, especially against mesmers and other thieves (especially the backstab/heartseeker spammers)

I'm trying the 0/30/20/20/0 build and it's pretty good. Having an on-demand shadowstep is one of the biggest things i've seen that makes a huge difference. People tend to get used to a lot of stealths, but popping around making good use of infiltrator's strike with the root really panics a lot of people.

[Gaaroth]

Fade_Guin, on 11 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Just spent a session in WvW as S/D. Wow, what a nice change! I've tried a variety of load outs, pretty much everything except D/D, and I have to say, S/D is even more survivable than my P/D vit/tough/cond build, plus fairly bursty. I was reluctant to try it out, but it seems really good, especially against mesmers and other thieves (especially the backstab/heartseeker spammers)

I'm trying the 0/30/20/20/0 build and it's pretty good. Having an on-demand shadowstep is one of the biggest things i've seen that makes a huge difference. People tend to get used to a lot of stealths, but popping around making good use of infiltrator's strike with the root really panics a lot of people.

another bro in the S/D club...welcome m8!

[Scarnah]

Fade_Guin, on 11 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Just spent a session in WvW as S/D. Wow, what a nice change! I've tried a variety of load outs, pretty much everything except D/D, and I have to say, S/D is even more survivable than my P/D vit/tough/cond build, plus fairly bursty. I was reluctant to try it out, but it seems really good, especially against mesmers and other thieves (especially the backstab/heartseeker spammers)

I'm trying the 0/30/20/20/0 build and it's pretty good. Having an on-demand shadowstep is one of the biggest things i've seen that makes a huge difference. People tend to get used to a lot of stealths, but popping around making good use of infiltrator's strike with the root really panics a lot of people.

Were you using shadowstep as a utility also?  When you have the utility and the #2 sword, you have the tools to seriously piss off a large group of enemies.  The best is to shadow step away, let them catch you, then return to your spot behind them and double back.  Then watch from afar as they aoe everywhere assuming you are just stealthed.

I also tried 0/30/20/20/0 for a night but I missed mug too much.  Still running 10/30/15/15/0 and loving it.

[funkybudda]

Scarnah, on 13 December 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Were you using shadowstep as a utility also?  When you have the utility and the #2 sword, you have the tools to seriously piss off a large group of enemies.  The best is to shadow step away, let them catch you, then return to your spot behind them and double back.  Then watch from afar as they aoe everywhere assuming you are just stealthed.

I also tried 0/30/20/20/0 for a night but I missed mug too much.  Still running 10/30/15/15/0 and loving it.

can you link your build? What sigils do you use on your weapons? Do you use a shortbow for weapon swap?

[Tenofas]

Sword/Dagger is my choice too!  I tested a lot of different builds and weapon combination, but there is nothing like S/D!
I have been running a 10/30/30/0/0, but now I want to test a 10/30/0/30/0 may be an interesting build for a different fight-style (not focusing on stealth but on dodge).  It may also evolve to a 0/30/0/25/15 to get more initiative.
I want to use it in PvE too, so I am looking for a versatile build/weapon combination, and S/D is the only one that offers such thing.
May Sword/Dagger live forever!

[Scarnah]

funkybudda, on 13 December 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

can you link your build? What sigils do you use on your weapons? Do you use a shortbow for weapon swap?

http://www.guildhead...07kNb70V7ofD70m

I've been using paralyzation and air on my sword/dagger and bloodlust on my shortbow.  The nerf to the sword daze made me question paralyzation, but it still seems to give me at least 2 seconds and I'm a little tight on cash to be buying new sigils.

My runes for WvW are all ruby orbs at the moment, don't have the cash to get scholar's or similar yet.

I almost exclusively play WvW and prefer roaming/scouting mostly.  I find the 15 in stealth and 15 in acrobatics work well together, and give me the best chance to escape when I'm outnumbered, or to move through enemy lines.  In 1v1 situations, I try to open with the shortbow to poke (1200 or so auto attack crits) and use the #3 and dodges to evade their opening combo.  With the orrian truffle stew and traits, each roll gives me 2 stacks of might, so I'll usually have 2-4 when I'm ready to bring the pain.  After that, I'll switch to S/D, do the usual mug + CnD combo, get through an entire sword auto attack chain while they're still dazed, then my next move is based on what they do to react.

The only build that I encounter on a usual basis that gives me issues is D/D elementalists.  I haven't been able to beat a decent one 1v1 yet, but I also haven't spent any time trying to figure out what they do and how to counter it.  I'm pretty content being able to counter condition builds (sword #2 and shadowstep remove conditions) since they seem to think they can crush thieves.

All that being said, WvW isn't about 1v1 fights, and I try to build/play in a way that I can roam solo but still contribute to the team.  When moving in a zerg, I try to annoy the enemy flanks and keep them confused.  It's amazing what 2 seconds of daze can do to disrupt someone's rhythm.  Keep them watching their backs and your main force will have more success crushing them up front.

Tenofas, on 16 December 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Sword/Dagger is my choice too!  I tested a lot of different builds and weapon combination, but there is nothing like S/D!
I have been running a 10/30/30/0/0, but now I want to test a 10/30/0/30/0 may be an interesting build for a different fight-style (not focusing on stealth but on dodge).  It may also evolve to a 0/30/0/25/15 to get more initiative.
I want to use it in PvE too, so I am looking for a versatile build/weapon combination, and S/D is the only one that offers such thing.
May Sword/Dagger live forever!

Give 10/30/15/15/0 a shot too.  The first 15 point of shadow and acrobatics work really well together in WvW.

Edited by Scarnah, 17 December 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[Tenofas]

Scarnah, on 17 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

Give 10/30/15/15/0 a shot too.  The first 15 point of shadow and acrobatics work really well together in WvW.

After a few hours with 10/30/0/30/0 I must admit that Initiative was not a problem.  I had plenty of it.  So I don't see any need to try 0/30/0/25/15 for improved initiative.
On the other hand, your idea (10/30/15/15/0) may really be interesting.  I would have less damage, but longer stealth.  Will give it a try.

[russviruz]

Tenofas
Scarnah

what gear do you wear in wvw and what are your stats in this gear?

for solo running or for running in a 5 man party to claim supplies

Edited by russviruz, 17 December 2012 - 09:25 PM.

[Tenofas]

In PvE I am full Berserker, with Runes of Divinity.
For WvWvW I switch to a few pieces of Valkyrie (Necklace, 2 earrings, chest, legs, boots and head-piece).  These take my health from 15.395 up to 18.855, and my Crit chance is reduced to 37% from 54% (without Signet of Agility).
But I am still testing this set, as I don't do too much WvWvW, I play more in sPvP.

[Scarnah]

russviruz, on 17 December 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Tenofas
Scarnah

what gear do you wear in wvw and what are your stats in this gear?

for solo running or for running in a 5 man party to claim supplies

I play WvW and have 2 pieces of knight's and the rest berserker.  I'm at work so I can't get accurate numbers, but my health is in the 15-16k range.  I don't bother too much with vit/toughness because my survival is all about avoidance.  Running in groups I'll hit and run quick enough to avoid being focused, and when I run solo I try to play carefully and anticipate my opponent's moves.

Since I focus on WvW, I don't really pay super close attention to every little number like I used to raiding in WoW.  In this game, picking the right skills for each situation and being in the right spot at the right time is way more important to success than trying to perfect a gear set.

[Fade_Guin]

Which to focus on, power or precision for consumables/stacking sigils? Something of a S/D burst build, believe it or not. (WvW)

Base Stats:

Power: 2256 (3246 attack)
Precision: 1767 (45% crit chance, 50% with +5% crit sigil offhand, 104% crit damage)

Spec: 25/30/0/15/0

http://gw2skills.net...fIqA;TMALLGjMJA

Essentially, I'm filling in the rest with consumables and either a sigil of bloodlust or sigil of perception. I'm just not sure which would be the most damage at the stats listed, precision or power. I've been blending it in equal amounts so far. After stacking to 25 on the sigil of bloodlust/preception with SB, I use Sigil of Rage and sigil of superior accuracy.

I remember seeing a chart of crit vs. power somewhere, but I can't find it.

Edited by Fade_Guin, 23 December 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[Scarnah]

Fade_Guin, on 23 December 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Which to focus on, power or precision for consumables/stacking sigils? Something of a S/D burst build, believe it or not. (WvW)

Base Stats:

Power: 2256 (3246 attack)
Precision: 1767 (45% crit chance, 50% with +5% crit sigil offhand, 104% crit damage)

Spec: 25/30/0/15/0

http://gw2skills.net...fIqA;TMALLGjMJA

Essentially, I'm filling in the rest with consumables and either a sigil of bloodlust or sigil of perception. I'm just not sure which would be the most damage at the stats listed, precision or power. I've been blending it in equal amounts so far. After stacking to 25 on the sigil of bloodlust/preception with SB, I use Sigil of Rage and sigil of superior accuracy.

I remember seeing a chart of crit vs. power somewhere, but I can't find it.

Why dagger training?  You are only using the dagger for CnD and dancing daggers, but that isn't for damage, it's for the cripple.  Those 15 points past Mug could be more effective in Shadow Arts or Acrobatics.  Trust me, you'll still have a lot of burst capability, plus some valuable tools for staying alive.

In WvW, you're going to have much more success finding a good balance between burst and survivability.

As far as precision vs. power, I use some on-crit procs so I like crit.

[Fade_Guin]

I've tried with points elsewhere, and revisited it again yesterday, and it just doesn't mesh with my playstyle. I do wish there was a way to get infusion of shadow into my build. There are some other things in Shadow Arts I'd love to have as well (it's one of my more favorite trait lines), just not enough points

[Scizzor]

Scarnah, on 17 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

I've been using paralyzation and air on my sword/dagger and bloodlust on my shortbow.  The nerf to the sword daze made me question paralyzation, but it still seems to give me at least 2 seconds and I'm a little tight on cash to be buying new sigils.
....

You do realize pvp changes don't affect WvW right? Daze is still 2 secs in WvW, with sigil of Para it's 3 seconds which is insane. You can daze and cloak and dagger right after it ends. Love it.

[Scarnah]

Scizzor, on 07 January 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

You do realize pvp changes don't affect WvW right? Daze is still 2 secs in WvW, with sigil of Para it's 3 seconds which is insane. You can daze and cloak and dagger right after it ends. Love it.

Yea I realized after posting that WvW still has an insane daze duration.  CnD, daze, auto attack cycle, CnD is pretty ridiculous.  It seems most people don't know this is possible, so shhhh.

[Sinnacle]

Im trying 30/20/20 out I was pretty much a P/D for life kinda of guy.  After messing around with S/D a bit in WvW I can see that is good decent life and kinda tanky.  Very very mobile.  Im gonna mess around with it some more later today but I think this is my go to damage set.  Im not a fan of d/d i tried it out but not my flavor. I was wondering though mug is so good I want it but not sure where I should pull points to get it.

Also do most of you run Bask venom for your elite?

Edited by Sinnacle, 07 January 2013 - 07:55 PM.