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Sword/Dagger Loyalty


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#91 Scarnah

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:12 PM

www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mzkmzc0M0MlvFombTvmaxx9MczaqVcq8khS7kir7kiH707kiG707kNb70V7ofD70m

That's my current build for WvW.  I could see swapping Mug for 10 in acro, but it's just too good for my playstyle.  Plus I can switch to sundering strikes for buffed supervisor fights.  As you said, it's both tanky and mobile, with good (but not great) burst.  The idea is to sneak into the enemy lines, hit someone, then disappear either through stealth or teleporting to someone else.  I can't kill someone in 2 seconds like dagger/dagger, but I can throw them off their game and hurt them enough that my allies can finish them off easily.

I run dagger storm for my elite.  Shadowstep into enemy group, dagger storm, then shadow return when you start taking too much damage.  It's insanely effective at stopping an enemy advance dead in its tracks.

Edited by Scarnah, 07 January 2013 - 08:13 PM.


#92 Scizzor

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:23 PM

View PostSinnacle, on 07 January 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Im trying 30/20/20 out I was pretty much a P/D for life kinda of guy.  After messing around with S/D a bit in WvW I can see that is good decent life and kinda tanky.  Very very mobile.  Im gonna mess around with it some more later today but I think this is my go to damage set.  Im not a fan of d/d i tried it out but not my flavor. I was wondering though mug is so good I want it but not sure where I should pull points to get it.

Also do most of you run Bask venom for your elite?

For WvW, I would use Thieves Guild or Dagger Storm depending on the situation. Bask venom is meh imo, even more so on a S/D. Honestly,  you have already have an immbolizing shadow step and your auto attack cripples so I see no need for it.

#93 icechai

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:35 PM

I tried not to do this spec because it seems a lot of you guys lately have been going at it, but after getting bored of instagibbing w/ d/d and seeing the limitations of s/p, I went s/d with the mindset of burst+survivability... and man is this weapon set awesome. Thanks for all the informative posts so far guys.

The build that works best for me in wvwvw is http://gw2skills.net...LLXOukctsYYxsAA

I find I don't really need shadow step as infiltrator's strike + stealth already makes us unpredictable and good to survive. I settled on haste for those times when you need extra speed on revive or a quick burst of autoattack on a guy. I mean really, this slot is interchangeable with anything, I also like running Ambush in this slot.

I'm definitely a S/D convert now.

#94 Gaaroth

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

welcome to the club bro, i can't live without :D

#95 Mssg91

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:21 AM

So after reading few post I did try s/d...


It sooo amazing!  wohhoooooo I was so bored on spvp with d/p and d/d and now! NOW! I feel like I am playing different class! I dont even know why I didnt try it before... eehh

and also I can put different skill for shadowstep! >.>

#96 mofogie

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:55 AM

I sword/dagger alot when i want to fight multiple foes.  I think a bunker/ high acrobat/shadow art S/D is near impossible to kill, and in all berserker gear, still puts out noticeable damage.

it's most amazing in the JP in WvW.  All the walls and columns, abusing infiltrater's strike over and over, popping into a crowd of guys and picking them apart.   just 3 of us kept dozens busy and killed them all over and over again.

really infiltrater's is OP.  ignoring walls and any XY terrain.... like a ghost that just appears and reeappears.

and flanking strike is underrated. The Boon removal is a huge deal.   My favorite is removing stability from a Lich Form, or DaggerStorm, then chain CCing them, making a complete joke out of their elite.

#97 Krill

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:46 PM

Count me in as a convert too, I have really grown to enjoy the tactical fighting of S/D over the typical DD instagib one trick pony, which simply does not work against against the decent players and legions of DD eles and guardians in T1 WvW.

Build

Equipment

6x Beserker's armor with 6x wurm runes
Berserker's sword, dagger, shortbow with generosity, battle, and bloodlust sigils
Berserker's spear and harpoon with hydromancy and and generosity sigils
5x knight's jewelry
Omnomberry pie, omnomberry ghost, or mixed fruit pie + maintenance oil

I can see the merit of 10/30/15/15/0 with mug or 0/30/15/15/10 with thrill of the crime, and possibly furious retaliation over practiced tolerance, but I just love the sustained output and survivability of this build. Might need to make some tweaks with equipment, the battle sigil is probably not optimum..a less expensive air or force sigil might be a better choice for damage output.

Edited by Krill, 24 January 2013 - 02:04 AM.


#98 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:51 AM

I'm predominantly an spvp player but I decide to get my full exotic set and try out wvw.. Is it meant to be that easy? I racked up my monthly in about an hour..  I was hoping in and out with infiltrator and shadow step and literally got kill after kill... Dudes were going down with one auto chain and flanking strike.. Love sd and don't think I'll be switching back to mh daggers any time soon. Btw if ur use to it and can consistently hit with flanking strike, it can crit for 8k whih is hardly something to sneeze at

#99 zp3dd4

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:13 PM

Yep, Wvw is full of underleved people with no Spvp Background. Also if you were zerging, chances are they didn't even see you coming ;)

#100 avoidconfusion

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

How do I see the runes and amulets on these skill calculator websites? I am only used to intothemists.com...

#101 NilBaxter

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

hi sword guys,

what would be the best choice for jewellery when im wearing full berzerkers armour?

#102 MrForz

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:20 AM

So, is this S/D army operational yet?

#103 Yski

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:13 PM

Since when has S/D been this strong? Back in the BWEs it felt weak, but now I find it way more reliable than the typical D/D burst for spiking down people due to the fact it still does nice damage while having way more teleports, immobilizes and dazes. Running away? Nope. Healing? Not today. Trying to cc? Sure, I'll remove that stability of yours while you waste your cooldowns on my evade.

No cooldowns to worry about means I can kill people left and right and the extra survivability is also nice. I don't think I've ever had 16 kills with no deaths on D/D, at least without getting credit for spamming aoe in team fights.

Long story short, count me as a convert.

By the way, are people really supposed to complain about spamming heartseeker when you have no dagger mainhand and spam daze on them? :huh:

#104 avoidconfusion

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:07 PM

Can someone please post a sPvP/tPvP version of this build? I don't do WvWvW on my Thief yet. :)

#105 Ss Heretic

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

View PostMrForz, on 28 January 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

So, is this S/D army operational yet?

Been using S/D in dungeons, WvW and SPvP.
The mobility and utility is awesome.

So yes I consider it fully operational.

#106 Angrymime

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

Love S/D in WvW.  Running 10/30/30 after trying several builds.  Finally gave up acrobatics.  Instead of dodging and running I just prefer to stealth.

I CnD everything.  Rabbits.  Keep walls.  Of course enemies.  If you can hit it, you can CnD it.

When stealth runs out I just CnD again and enjoy the healing, aoe blind, regaining initiative.  Eventually I will pick out a target that's below 50% and auto attack him from behind to daze for 3s using signet of paralyzation then burst his ass down.  Then I just CnD something again.

#107 Dairuiner

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostAngrymime, on 29 January 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Eventually I will pick out a target that's below 50% and auto attack him from behind to daze for 3s using signet of paralyzation then burst his ass down.

Meh, if only they hadn't nerfed Tac strike. Can't get 3s out of the daze anymore, sigil of para doesn't bump it over 2s anymore.  Still my fav build though.

#108 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:16 AM

View PostDairuiner, on 01 February 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:



Meh, if only they hadn't nerfed Tac strike. Can't get 3s out of the daze anymore, sigil of para doesn't bump it over 2s anymore.  Still my fav build though.
It still works in wvw and pve iirc... Just doesn't work in sPvP which is prob the right thing to do as it was a lil op

#109 Angrymime

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:52 PM

View PostDairuiner, on 01 February 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Meh, if only they hadn't nerfed Tac strike. Can't get 3s out of the daze anymore, sigil of para doesn't bump it over 2s anymore.  Still my fav build though.

I just rechecked this and it still works for 3s in WvW.  Actually, the tootip for tactical strike shows duration 2s in WvW but in the Mists, it shows duration 1.5s.  In WvW, with the paralyze sigil it bumps it to 3s.  Also 3s in PvE.  Just not in the mists or sPvP.

#110 MrIntox

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

Hi guys,

I've reached lvl 80 a couple of days ago and after reading this topic, I thought I would give it a try.
I find this Sword/Dagger build awesome. Thanks!

View PostAngrymime, on 03 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

I just rechecked this and it still works for 3s in WvW.  Actually, the tootip for tactical strike shows duration 2s in WvW but in the Mists, it shows duration 1.5s.  In WvW, with the paralyze sigil it bumps it to 3s.  Also 3s in PvE.  Just not in the mists or sPvP.

I would be very interested in having this stun for 3s in WvW as well. I assume you're wearing 6x Mesmer runes on your armor, am I right?

#111 LLYASGTM

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 05:04 AM

I'm curious to see how the S/D loyalty experience has been for those that regularly do paid tourneys/or are of high rank, and if they play out as well as BS D/D roamers.

#112 Speno

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:34 PM

View Posticechai, on 11 January 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

I tried not to do this spec because it seems a lot of you guys lately have been going at it, but after getting bored of instagibbing w/ d/d and seeing the limitations of s/p, I went s/d with the mindset of burst+survivability... and man is this weapon set awesome. Thanks for all the informative posts so far guys.

The build that works best for me in wvwvw is http://gw2skills.net...LLXOukctsYYxsAA

I find I don't really need shadow step as infiltrator's strike + stealth already makes us unpredictable and good to survive. I settled on haste for those times when you need extra speed on revive or a quick burst of autoattack on a guy. I mean really, this slot is interchangeable with anything, I also like running Ambush in this slot.

I'm definitely a S/D convert now.

Using this build currently after testing most of the builds here, I must say it is a really great all around build. I am able to go into groups and survive long enough to kill a person or two and escape. I switch some of the skills depending on situation as everyone does but it is a very good all around build.

#113 Dairuiner

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostLLYASGTM, on 06 February 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

I'm curious to see how the S/D loyalty experience has been for those that regularly do paid tourneys/or are of high rank, and if they play out as well as BS D/D roamers.

You rarely, if ever see S/D thieves in paids.  My group (DCed) always has a S/D thief however and we do very well. The rarity of encountering S/D definitely can throw opposing teams off, as we often hear when re-watching streams of our matches from our opponents POV.

#114 Fade_Guin

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:01 PM

I've been working on a WvW S/D setup where I can burst nearly as well as a glass cannon thief (at least on GC builds), but have the extra durability to take more than a couple hits. This setup could work with other professions, although some of it relies on thief-specific traits. You'd have to have similar or better traits to come close. Without further ado...

The stats:

Attack: ~3185 (add 2 stacks of might every time you stealth for 10 seconds, avg. is 4 stacks) 3325 effective attack (you would gain 25 stacks of power from sigil of bloodlust and swap out to your other weapon)
Crit chance: 49% (56% with traits)
Crit damage: 101%
Armor: 2959
Health: ~16K
Healing power: 300

The build:

http://gw2skills.net...FwKA;TMArPGjMJA

With this setup, every time you stealth, you move at 50% increased speed, you gain 2 stacks of might, a 5 second regen good for around ~2k of healing, one condition removed, and a healing pulse every 3 seconds for ~425. S/D is excellent at control, and the main damage comes from the auto-attack chain.

Gear:

Armor: Pow/Tou/Vit armor
Runes: 6 Ruby Orbs
Weapons: Berserker weapons, mainhand sigil of rage, offhand superior accuracy

Jewelry:

Back: Prototype berserker fractal (pow/pre/crit dam)
Earrings: Cavalier Orr Ring + Emerald Orich (Exquisite ruby orbs)
Amulet: Gwen's Necklace (ascended)
Rings: Adelbern's Royal Signet + Rurik's Royal Signet (both ascended)

Food:

Master Maintenance Oil
Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash

Edited by Fade_Guin, 07 February 2013 - 10:21 PM.


#115 Krill

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:13 AM

edit, nm, answered my own question :zip:

Edited by Krill, 08 February 2013 - 01:19 AM.


#116 Speno

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

I would like to know how the guys rolling with 30 points in Shadow Arts are stealthing. I run only 20 points right now with Infusion of shadows, and Cloaked in shadow. I have no trouble killing 1v1 or killing and escaping, but to engage multiple targets in WvW I fail and usually escape after killing one.

Just would like to get a little better with stealthing, thanks in advance for the tips fellow S/d'ers.

#117 Angrymime

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:35 AM

View PostMrIntox, on 05 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Hi guys,

I've reached lvl 80 a couple of days ago and after reading this topic, I thought I would give it a try.
I find this Sword/Dagger build awesome. Thanks!



I would be very interested in having this stun for 3s in WvW as well. I assume you're wearing 6x Mesmer runes on your armor, am I right?

I'm using all eagle runes for the crit.

#118 Fade_Guin

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:56 PM

Anyone try P/D as an off weapon set? Even with little to no condition damage, bleeds tick for 55 or so, and the sneak attack hits decently (3K or so). Vital shots hit for 800-1K when they crit. CnD hits for 4K+.

Seems like it might make for a decent ranged set.

I haven't tested it in WvW yet, but wondered if anyone has tried it with a decent pow/crit setup.

#119 Ashin Dreidon

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:10 AM

View PostFade_Guin, on 15 February 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Anyone try P/D as an off weapon set? Even with little to no condition damage, bleeds tick for 55 or so, and the sneak attack hits decently (3K or so). Vital shots hit for 800-1K when they crit. CnD hits for 4K+.

Seems like it might make for a decent ranged set.

I haven't tested it in WvW yet, but wondered if anyone has tried it with a decent pow/crit setup.

I primarily run a pow/crit setup with s/d and tried p/d just to experiment in wvw.  i didn't try it as an alt. set to s/d, i just tried it as main set to see how it worked.  the damage is pretty solid but i'm not 100% sold yet.  i just wanted to try it one day to see if i'd want to invest in an alternate carrion set.  i think using it as an off set may be a good idea.  i don't really do the zerg thing so i find myself using shortbow less and less, as s/d has enough control/escape options.

#120 Fade_Guin

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:52 PM

I've done a little testing on mobs in Frost Gorge. With Omnomberry pie (66% on crit to steal health) and sigil of air, even auto attack damage is ok. I think there is potential for it, especially if you use Shadow Strike. It hits for 3-4K and if you can work it into an attack sequence, damage should be pretty good.

Edit: Some initial observations:

Sigil of Air is hitting every ~5 seconds for 1.1K-1.4K.

Vital shot is hitting for ~925-1.1K when it crits. With the Omnom pie, there's a great chance it procs for an additional 325 damage (which also heals you.
Sneak attack is hitting for 3-4K when it crits. With the pie, that's a potential additional 1625 damage, that also heals you.
Cloak and Dagger is still hitting for 3-5K on average with crits.
Shadow Strike is hitting for ~800-1.1K for first attack, 2.5-4.6K on the second portion of the attack when they crit. I'm typically seeing an average of 5.5K if both crit.
Bleeds from Vital Shot and Sneak Attack are hitting for ~50 each per tick, not to be forgotten, as it all adds up. That's ~4-5 stacks at any given time, 800-1K damage per second if not cleansed.

I found that Infusion of Shadow works better than Shadow protector if you have no init regen, such as Inf. Signet. The healing from Omnom pie should help alleviate the loss of Shadow protector healing. Shadow Embrace is too good not to grab.

http://gw2skills.net...KA;TQALKGUsJYSA

If you run Mug and Infiltrator's Signet, you can CnD when close, Sneak Attack, then Shadow Strike away. At that point, use Inf Signet to close the gap again, CnD, Sneak Attack, and then Shadow Strike away again. You can then Mug and do it again.

That adds up to some pretty good damage. It's not as pressuring as a pure glass build, but you have ~3K toughness for the longer fights, and a lot of power, crit, and crit damage to still put some hurt out.

Edited by Fade_Guin, 18 February 2013 - 11:59 PM.





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