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Lore request - The Lost Shores


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#1 Tregarde

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:53 PM

Normally I can keep up reasonably well with lore. But unfortunately this weekend's event had issues. I missed the beginning because of work (no biggie). Got home and got into RP, then people wanted to hit the new dungeon, so I wasn't able to start doing new quests till late. Progressed in the Investigation till hit the Asura in Caledon who was bugged.

I had plans on Saturday and figured ArenaNet would have the bug fixed by the time I got home, so I logged out. Got home the next day to find that the quests were gone, and the only reason one of my characters finished the Investigation was because he had already started it.

A wee bit frustrating, as I'm sure many of you also feel.

I have very little idea what actually happened. I've gotten bits and pieces from various posts, but there's still details missing. Just for example, I know that karka attacked Lion's Arch and the Lighthouse is in ruins. But... that's about all i know. How many karka attacked? Where did they come from? Who was there? How were they beaten back? Etc.

SO... I was hoping that people could explain things so that those of us who missed parts of the weekend could catch up. Being that one of my character is from Lion's Arch, at the very least he would have been aware of what was happening, if not actually involved in events.

#2 Meister

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:57 PM

Oh yes please i havnt even played this weekend ..

#3 Steadfast Gao Shun

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:10 PM

The loremasters answered my question pretty well. ;) Let me cite their responses and see what else we can figure out. But the basic gist of it, unfortunately, was just left that that. We still know very little about them.

Although, if anything... Some of the Fractals might offer more in terms of lore than the Lost Shores. :P

Quote

1. Has anyone found out anything more about the Karka? I swear I was under the impression that they were running away from something in the deep waters, but the most recent event have us ... attacking their colony? What is going on? Did we provoke them into something?

2. Owain seemed to have been around for a while on the Lost Shores (shipwrecked Sylvari girl). Judging by the number of ships there, hers is not the only one either. Was she shipwrecked as a part of recent events, or has that part of the sea always been dangerous? Has anyone found out anything more about the nature of Southsun Cove?


Response from Konig:

Quote

1) They did indeed flee from the depths. From what is never looked into sadly, but we can all bet it's the same thing that forced krait and largos out - the deep sea dragon. Southsun Cove seems to be a recent island, being volcanic to the point of magma being _three feet beneath the ground's surface_ and having a lot of it being made by the karka themselves.

The Consortium did provoke them, however, and this was the point behind Ellen Klel's scavenger hunt that included the bugged Noll and Canach. The situation was that the Consortium was looking for a new tropical get away from tourist vacations to make money. So they sent an expedition team - including Owain and Canach - to the newly discovered island of Southsun Cove. They were told to not touch the local wildlife, but Canach in his finding-loopholes attitude realized they said nothing about tampering with plantlife. So he had his team study them. This provoked the karka into attacking (as well as the Consortium's overall presence), and the team members that survived were forced to flee (sans Owain who suffered post-traumatic stress disorder and remained there, living off of karka egg omelets). The karka followed the fleeing Consortium north, then the invasion of LA happened.

2. Probably both - the sea has indeed always been dangerous, thanks to Zhaitan's forces. As for the nature of Southsun Cove - already answered what I found; seems to be a new island made from recent volcanic activity and the karka's... excrement that hardens into very strong materials (it's what their nests and shells are made out of).


Response from Draxynic:

Quote

As a addendum to Konig's point, it also seems as if the karka somehow knew exactly where their targets went to. Lion's Arch was attacked, which had the first step in the scavenger hunt. The attacks on Garrenhoff were likely tied to Canach's presence, while Morgan's Spiral is on the way to the Hanto Trading Post. As far as we know, there were no attacks anywhere except on the way towards where Consortium members were holed up.

Edited by Steadfast Gao Shun, 19 November 2012 - 10:11 PM.


#4 SlappedYak

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

The event was a great idea (done badly :P) but I literally hadn't a CLUE what was going on! and I actually did the event!! The loremaster posts are useful, but they are still wildly sketchy and not at all enough for lore geeks :/ The gist I got was that this was losely tied into the deep sea dragon, but it was mostly a way to introduce the consortium as a competing market force, a new area, and the new dungeons :)

I would've loved more lore on the area, and the creatures themselves....hopefully it will get expanded upon? hmmm who knows ;)

#5 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:38 AM

The quoted post above answers most of the scenario, but allow me to put it all in one, clear post since my post that was quoted was geared specifically to questions.

The karka were deep sea creatures who have lived since ancient times. Zommoros hints at them having been around since the previous Elder Dragon rise by stating "They haven't been seen since the world was emptier and the continents held a different shape."

We have comments form a dev (forget which) which states that they were pushed out of the ocean depths by "something" (this is never, as far as I saw, shown in game except for a different line from Zommoros tied to the above quoted one, saying that when they were last seen was when they last surfaced). Zommoros' line hints at them being dragon minions, though from investigating via largos and quaggan we know they're not (unless the DSD's minions have been active forever) - but rather, it seems the karka are used to retreating to the surface when the Elder Dragons rise. Though this is my interpretation on the matter.

At an unknown point, the karka fled to Southsun Cove - which seems to be a newly formed island chain (a total of 5 islands - 3 tiny ones, 2 bigger ones). Half of Southsun Cove is highly volcanic still, particularly the northwestern portion which even has a pit of lava only a few feet beneath the surface. The entire western larger island has many hot steam geysers to go with this.

Biologically, the karka are crustaceans which have some sort of liquid excrement which hardens into material as tough (tougher?) as metal - they use this to form their nests, hives, coat their eggs, and even make their armor out of it. This is why adult karka were so hard to fight (made easier thanks to alchemic acids devised shortly after the first LA invasion). As such, the older a karka is, the harder its shell - hence the Ancient Karka threat.

As to why the karka invaded: the Consortium is to blame.

The Consortium is an asura-established multi-racial profit-seeking economic group (guild?). When they discovered Southsun Cove they led an expedition, led by Canach, a secondborn sylvari, and containing Owain (their chef) the latter being still on the island and the former now a fugitive of the Lionguard. The Consortium was exploring Southsun Cove in order to set up a tourist attraction and vacation getaway location. During the expedition, Canach in all his wisdom noticed that his orders where, dumbed down, "do not touch animals or mess with the land" but failed to notice any mention of plantlife. Seeing new plant life, he set up a team to study the local flora. This instigated the karka attack, the expedition was mostly wiped out, and the survivors (sans Owain) fled back to Lion's Arch. Thus, the karka attacked Lion's Arch.

On Southsun Cove, one can notice on Pearl's Inlet a broken asura gate. This asura gate was intended to lead to the one found in the Consortium Gift Shop PoI in Lion's Arch - the one that now leads to the Fractals of the Mists. Something unexplained (because its unknown) happened with the LA gate and instead of going to Southsun Cove (probably due to the gate being broken), it went into the Mists. There Dessa set up shop to study the properties of the Mists, stablize the "fractals" (small chunks of floating land) in the Mists, and not only further her research but set up more tourist attractions for the Consortium (hey, whatever to do for money, right?).

A tangent on the Fractals (well, a longer one): The Fractals are mostly showing past events of continental Tyria - though there are some modern and possible-future events too (one of the past being a battle between Flame Legion and Ascalonians; one of the future being a run down and utterly destroyed Rata Sum). There's two which are very interesting to note: one of the Jade Sea, still solidified, and one that holds a more mesoamerican-ish (imo at least) appearance which has a grey-and-purple colossus that's chained down. The reason the latter's interesting to note is because the only enemies are humans and, furthermore, hold a theme to the two Canthan professions (particularly assassin).

As drax pointed out, the karka not only attacked Lion's Arch, but went in the direction of where the Consortium survivors fled to, indicating that they hold sapience and tracking abilities.

With the Ancient Karka dead, Southsun Cove has been opened up for research and tourism. Despite the Lionguard's (or at least Ellen Klel's) dislike for such.

Hmmm.... I think that's everything?

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#6 draxynnic

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:46 AM

The basic sequence of events seems to be:

First, the karka withdraw from the ocean depths and settle/develop Southsun Cove. I'm going to guess that this happened after Zhaitan's defeat, since Southsun Cove is probably disturbingly close to Orr to serve as a refuge while the dragon was still active.

Second, probably after having decided that the threat from Orr had dissipated, the Consortium began investigating the Cove as a resort destination. Inferring from Canach's testimony, it seems he wasn't supposed to disturb anything on the island (possibly someone higher-up in the Consortium had some idea about the karka, and felt that they could coexist as long as they made sure nothing significant to the karka was disturbed) but Canach found a loophole and took some plant life unique to the Cove. This enraged the karka, pressing them to attack the expidition and forcing (most of) the survivors to flee to Lion's Arch. On arriving in Lion's Arch, Canach and Noll departed to lie low, leaving Blingg to smooth things over.

Personally, I have a feeling that at this point that somewhere in this process a material link was formed that allowed the karka to track them by supernatural means - Noll and Canach most likely left LA by gate which would prevent them from being tracked by conventional means, and even if they traveled by land it would be difficult for the karka to have picked up the trail. This may be the signal that Levvi picked up and attempted to warn the Lionguard about.This means that the karka are not necessarily sapient, as they might have instinctually homed in on the signal. (Certainly, the karka don't seem to value their young - they appear to be used as the first line of attack and defense, and the ratio of adult to young karka coupled with the rate at which adult karka can lay eggs implies either a very high mortality rate or that the adult generation has been nearly wiped out and hasn't had time to repopulate. That said, I have a suspicion that egg-laying in combat results in improperly matured hatchlings that aren't viable, and is employed as a defence mechanism rather than true reproduction.)

Phase 1 started with an attack on Lion's Arch. Wasn't there, so I can't speak for the details. After the attack concluded, two investigations were launched - to find out what provoked the attack, and to find a more effective way of cracking karka shells.

Phase 2 started with a second attack. After that attack was repulsed, the Lionguard counterattacked, establishing beachheads on Southsun Cove and pushing deeper into the island (the latter using a mix of the alchemical knowledge of the hylek and past experience of the karka from the quaggans and largos).

Phase 3 started with setting explosives in the main karka hive. However, the Ancient Karka - presumably teh equivalent of a queen - was outside the hive when the charges had all been planted, so it needed to be forced back into the hive where the charges were. To cut a long battle short, the Ancient Karka was weakened until it was left lying helpless on a weakened section of floor, which was subsequently collapsed to drop the ancient karka in lave - while it was able to climb out before it died, it only managed a few steps before the injuries proved fatal.
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#7 Tomi Wurmhaart

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:37 AM

Does anyone know what exactly the quaggan, hylek and largos had to say?

#8 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:41 PM

The quaggan had dealings with them before and had a magical scroll to help defend against them. The hylek was told of them and helped make an alchemic concoction that he suspected would be helpful. I dunno bout the largos, it was bugged for me, but from what I heard he only says he fought them before and they have an extremely strong shell.

Edit: According to wiki, the largos also explains that the karka is only (normally) vulnerable when they shed their shells for a larger one as they grow old. And that he takes momentos from his kills, unless there's a transcription error he also mentioned "eternas" which sounds like honoring a deal.

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#9 Orual Fox

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:27 AM

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 20 November 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

.... it went into the Mists. There Dessa set up shop to study the properties of the Mists, stablize the "fractals" (small chunks of floating land) in the Mists, and not only further her research but set up more tourist attractions for the Consortium (hey, whatever to do for money, right?).




Dessa set up the Fractals for Consortium use?  Honestly it sounds like (from Dessa) that the portal that is in LA is a complete accident.  Dessa hates LA ( "that haven for pirates?") and wouldn't connect there by choice.  She is also upset with the Consortium and would rather take them out. (apparently she lost a boyfriend to them too).  Also, she has no idea what a Sylvari is.  If a Sylvari PC talks to here, she gets a little confused on what in the world they are.    

I think the Consortium set up the portals, but because of the trouble they had with the karka they never finished, yet somehow, Dessa's lab locked into that gate.  Some people bloodied and hurt walked out, warning of death traps and the Lionguard set up Tyrra there to warn people of it.

#10 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:52 AM

It is indeed an accidental connection - the LA gate was originally meant for Southsun Cove (specifically, Pearl's Inlet). But the Consortium - whether Dessa is knowing this or not - is still using their gate as a locational spot.

I don't recall any mention of Dessa hating the Consortium or losing a boyfriend to them (are you sure you're not mistaking that with Levvi, with her ex boyfriend being a member of the Consortium?).

The people who were "bloodied and hurt" were adventurers that went in after the gates connected.

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#11 Orual Fox

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:34 PM

If you talk to Dessa within the Observatory, I do believe she does have a bit of dialogue about them (and yes it is similar to Levvi where she also loses a boyfriend)  but I still get the impression that the Consortium is using the fractals as a vacation spot.  Even Blingg says something like "coming soon!", in a way that seems to not acknowledge that the gate is working behind him.

EDIT:  Here ya go

http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream

Edited by Orual Fox, 21 November 2012 - 07:40 PM.


#12 Meister

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:20 PM

i interested about the sylvari part you are talking about, how can she not know the sylvari after 25 years

#13 Daenerys

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:57 PM

View PostMeister, on 21 November 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

i interested about the sylvari part you are talking about, how can she not know the sylvari after 25 years
I believe that's what we're supposed to wonder. It seems like something any self-respecting Asuran scientist would know about.

My inner science fiction fan wonders if Dessa was in the mists or something. I doubt it, but do we know where she came from?

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#14 Meister

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:14 PM

View PostMockingjay74, on 21 November 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

I believe that's what we're supposed to wonder. It seems like something any self-respecting Asuran scientist would know about.

My inner science fiction fan wonders if Dessa was in the mists or something. I doubt it, but do we know where she came from?

I was thinking about that to, that she is in the mists for longer but I dont think she is in there for 25 years now, that would be.. strange..
I would have to see the dialogue meself first

#15 Orual Fox

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:56 AM

Well, we do know that she is aware that LA is a pirate haven, so that means she had to have been there or known about it after the original LA had sunk and rebuilt by pirates.  Yet, she also knows who the Consortium is, which is new to us, but begs to ask the question, how old is the Consortium?

#16 Daenerys

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

I don't think that someone would have to spend very long in Lion's Arch to determine it's a pirate area. She might've been there just for a few days and been completely surrounded by lots of people who sound like pirates and... are pirates.

Everything about the Consortium confuses me. They just popped up out of nowhere and had this huge island that nobody had heard about before for 250+ years/ever. Maybe if Dessa is from the mists/other location, the Consortium are, too?

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