239 replies to this topic

[Ghostwing]

Gileas898, on 10 January 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

Yes, but we don't know how GW2 will handle that exact same situation do we? It's pointless to discuss it.

What do you mean? We already know how GW2 handles it. 10 fotm dailies for your pick of a ring in addition to the RNG rings, and some amount of runs for the ascended back piece.

[Reverse Ghost]

Gileas898, on 10 January 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

GW2 was sold as a game where you wouldn't have to grind for gear to stay competitive.

Let's take a look at the 3 major game modes: PvE (open world and dungeon), WvW, and PvP.

In PvE open world, Ascended gear is meaningless, and an argument could be easily made that says so is Exotic gear. You don't need either to complete the content.

In PvE dungeons (non-fractals), it is only the other players that are judging you for not having Ascended gear. It's a cooperative game mode and people got through these dungeons just fine with Rare and Exotic gear in the past, and they'll continue to do so unaffected by the addition Ascended gear.

In Fractals, Agony resistance in Ascended gear is "required" to progress past a certain point. This applies only to this dungeon and so far Agony does not affect the outside world. If a group wants to do Fractals to do Fractals then they get some "grindy" reward for it. Let's face it, there are people who play games who just want grind. For whatever reason, I don't care if they really want it or only think they want it. Point is, they crave that shit. They want "hard" content and they want to see their numbers go up.

In WvW, Ascended gear may or may not have a noticeable effect. However, the main point here is that ArenaNet do not consider WvW to be competitive. I know some players do, and they care about WvW a lot, but the reality is that because you can get in there with any level and any gear, and you cannot control other peoples' level and gear, it will always be unbalanced in numbers (let alone the difference in number of players) Even if there were no Ascended gear, WvW would still be just as unbalanced, and that is by design.

In PvP, there's no Ascended gear.

So, Fractals of the Mists is the only game mode where Ascended gear is a required in any way, and it isn't even a "grind to stay competitive," it's a grind to be able to progress further. And really the only people that should be running Fractals are the players that want that grindy shit. ArenaNet have apparently made that niche game mode for players who like grind. Players are all different and want different things, after all.

Edited by Reverse Ghost, 10 January 2013 - 10:29 PM.

[Gileas898]

Ghostwing, on 10 January 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

What do you mean? We already know how GW2 handles it. 10 fotm dailies for your pick of a ring in addition to the RNG rings, and some amount of runs for the ascended back piece.

No, you don't know how further pieces of Ascended gear will be acquired.

Lordkrall, on 10 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

The bolded part is exactly the whole thing.
No matter how many hours you have spent in PvE you are still just as able to compete in sPvP and sPvP is really the only "competetive" part of the game. There are no competetion in PvE, there are no man on man competetion in WvW and gear don't, in anyway, effect the outcome of the WvW matches.

If you don't think there is competition in PvE I don't really know what to say. Can Tetris not be competitive? Pacman?

Reverse Ghost, on 10 January 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Let's take a look at the 3 major game modes: PvE (open world and dungeon), WvW, and PvP.

In PvE open world, Ascended gear is meaningless, and an argument could be easily made that says so is Exotic gear. You don't need either to complete the content.

In PvE dungeons (non-fractals), it is only the other players that are judging you for not having Ascended gear. It's a cooperative game mode and people got through these dungeons just fine with Rare and Exotic gear in the past, and they'll continue to do so unaffected by the addition Ascended gear.

In Fractals, Agony resistance in Ascended gear is "required" to progress past a certain point. This applies only to this dungeon and so far Agony does not affect the outside world. If a group wants to do Fractals to do Fractals then they get some "grindy" reward for it. Let's face it, there are people who play games who just want grind. For whatever reason, I don't care if they really want it or only think they want it. Point is, they crave that shit. They want "hard" content and they want to see their numbers go up.

In WvW, Ascended gear may or may not have a noticeable effect. However, the main point here is that ArenaNet do not consider WvW to be competitive. I know some players do, and they care about WvW a lot, but the reality is that because you can get in there with any level and any gear, and you cannot control other peoples' level and gear, it will always be unbalanced in numbers (let alone the difference in number of players) Even if there were no Ascended gear, WvW would still be just as unbalanced, and that is by design.

In PvP, there's no Ascended gear.

So, Fractals of the Mists is the only game mode where Ascended gear is a required in any way, and it isn't even a "grind to stay competitive," it's a grind to be able to progress further. And really the only people that should be running Fractals are the players that want that grindy shit. ArenaNet have apparently made that niche game mode for players who like grind. Players are all different and want different things, after all.

Again... You too make the mistake that there is no competition within the PvE community. I could point you to 100 different things that prove this, but you probably know it already and will brush it off as something silly to further your argument.

Also I really don't get the whole "WvWvW was not supposed to be balanced" thing. By that logic Arena Net could start selling godmode boosters for WvWvW in cash shop, trebuchet's that one-hit walls and why not a nuke for $100 dollars that captures an entire zone?

WvWvW was not supposed to be balanced, Arena Net fully understood that different servers would have different amount of active players in WvWvW, and that it was impossible to balance it without locking people out. That does not make it OK to introduce more and more imbalances.

Edited by Gileas898, 10 January 2013 - 10:46 PM.

[Ghostwing]

Gileas898, on 10 January 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

No, you don't know how further pieces of Ascended gear will be acquired.

I thought we were talking about the grind required for the current ascended pieces. So now you're complaining about the grind for pieces that don't exist yet?

[Gileas898]

Ghostwing, on 10 January 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

I thought we were talking about the grind required for the current ascended pieces. So now you're complaining about the grind for pieces that don't exist yet?

No. You gave an example where you stated that your last BiS pieces in WoW were a grind to get, because it involved RNG since you had a lot of the potential drops already.

I said it was a silly comparison because you have no clue how the last pieces of Ascended gear will be acquired in GW2.

Edited by Gileas898, 10 January 2013 - 11:03 PM.

[Ghostwing]

Gileas898, on 10 January 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

No. You gave an example where you stated that your last BiS pieces in WoW were a grind to get, because it involved RNG since you had a lot of the potential drops already.

I said it was a silly comparison because you have no clue how the last pieces of Ascended gear will be acquired in GW2.

But we already know that's the system in place for WoW, and that system has been in place since they introduced raids. What makes you think GW2 will stray from the current token system they have?

[Millimidget]

Ghostwing, on 10 January 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

But we already know that's the system in place for WoW, and that system has been in place since they introduced raids. What makes you think GW2 will stray from the current token system they have?

Because it's even more boring the 100th time than the WoW system.

[Var]

Millimidget, on 10 January 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

Because it's even more boring the 100th time than the WoW system.

Exaggerated, subjective points are irrelevant to this discussion.

[Gileas898]

Ghostwing, on 10 January 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

But we already know that's the system in place for WoW, and that system has been in place since they introduced raids. What makes you think GW2 will stray from the current token system they have?

1) No, the current WoW system is not the same as in vanilla.

2) No, the current GW2 system is not the same as when FotM was released.

[Ghostwing]

Gileas898, on 10 January 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

1) No, the current WoW system is not the same as in vanilla.

2) No, the current GW2 system is not the same as when FotM was released.

1) No? How was gear doled out in vanilla, then?

Specifically the WoW RNG grind I'm talking about is the 20+ people in a raid with < 10 pieces of gear dropped for a boss, random loot table so the piece you need might not even drop, and pieces you already have might drop repeatedly over several runs. You're also competing with everyone else for those drops. The last time I played it was around 8 pieces per boss for 25 people, with a lot of bosses dropping stuff that didn't apply to your specific class. If I remember right, classic Onyxia dropped less than 10 pieces, but I could be wrong on that count.

2) Yeah, they made it less RNG with the introduction of the pristine tokens. They're actively making it LESS grindy.

Quote

Again... You too make the mistake that there is no competition within the PvE community. I could point you to 100 different things that prove this, but you probably know it already and will brush it off as something silly to further your argument.

Actually, now I'm curious. Like what?

Edited by Ghostwing, 10 January 2013 - 11:32 PM.

[Gileas898]

Ghostwing, on 10 January 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

1) No? How was gear doled out in vanilla, then?

Specifically the WoW RNG grind I'm talking about is the 20+ people in a raid with < 10 pieces of gear dropped for a boss, random loot table so the piece you need might not even drop, and pieces you already have might drop repeatedly over several runs. You're also competing with everyone else for those drops. The last time I played it was around 8 pieces per boss for 25 people, with a lot of bosses dropping stuff that didn't apply to your specific class. If I remember right, classic Onyxia dropped less than 10 pieces, but I could be wrong on that count.

2) Yeah, they made it less RNG with the introduction of the pristine tokens. They're actively making it LESS grindy.

Tokens and badges were also not given out in Vanilla. See? What you say in 2) is true for WoW as well.

Ghostwing, on 10 January 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

Actually, now I'm curious. Like what?

- The Vodka vs Method Dragon Soul race was watched by more people than any top arena streamer could ever amass.
- GW1 still had an incredibly active competitive PvE scene years after PvP died.
- GW2 tPvP is basically dead with only a few teams still playin, whereas people are still competing to reach the higher fractals, solo the most dungeons, do the dungeons the fastest etc.

I am sure you get the idea. In many ways PvE competition is way more popular than PvP competition. Just because your opponent is not on the exact same playing field as you does not mean there can't be competition.

[Humungous]

First off, Andy is a good guy from an absurdly kind family (his mom is a freakin' saint) who worked extremely hard to get where he is. Paranoia about anything that guy says is totally misguided. And it's McLeod...

Second, so much freakin' fail in this thread... ANet isn't Enron. They're gamers like anyone of us, and they sure as hell aren't in it for the $$!

So give it a rest!

[Ghostwing]

Gileas898, on 11 January 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

Tokens and badges were also not given out in Vanilla. See? What you say in 2) is true for WoW as well.



- The Vodka vs Method Dragon Soul race was watched by more people than any top arena streamer could ever amass.
- GW1 still had an incredibly active competitive PvE scene years after PvP died.
- GW2 tPvP is basically dead with only a few teams still playin, whereas people are still competing to reach the higher fractals, solo the most dungeons, do the dungeons the fastest etc.

I am sure you get the idea. In many ways PvE competition is way more popular than PvP competition. Just because your opponent is not on the exact same playing field as you does not mean there can't be competition.

See what?? So RNG was worse in Vanilla. How does that help your case in the current discussion of the WoW grind compared to the current GW2 grind, in saying that the GW2 grind is horrible and full of RNG?

As for the second bit, what? Dragon Soul has a gear element. The fractals race also has a gear element (which is what this complaint thread is about). Two of the three things you listed have gear progression in them. So you're saying "the pve competition scene should not rely on gear" and then proceed to list pve competition examples where gearing for stats is involved.

I admit I know nothing about the GW1 pve scene. What does that entail, exactly?

Edited by Ghostwing, 11 January 2013 - 01:36 AM.

[Gileas898]

Seriously, you are using what I said in my latest post as replies to what you typed several posts ago. It's the worst kind of OT baiting, please stop it. If you can't bring anything new to the discussion then just stop posting.

Ghostwing, on 11 January 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

See what?? So RNG was worse in Vanilla. How does that help your case in the current discussion of the WoW grind compared to the current GW2 grind, in saying that the GW2 grind is horrible and full of RNG?

No. You said that WoW was more grindy than GW2, and now you claim it's the same after I pointed out what I did.

Ghostwing, on 11 January 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

As for the second bit, what? Dragon Soul has a gear element. The fractals race also has a gear element (which is what this complaint thread is about). Two of the three things you listed have gear progression in them. So you're saying "the pve competition scene should not rely on gear" and then proceed to list pve competition examples where gearing for stats is involved.

No. You inquired about what PvE competition there was. I pointed you in the right direction. Don't turn this around into something else.

Ghostwing, on 11 January 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I admit I know nothing about the GW1 pve scene. What does that entail, exactly?

Speedclearing.

[Just Horus]

Speedclearing represented, at best, a small minority of the PvE base. There was no point when speedclearing was ever more popular than PvP in GW1.

[Trei]

Gileas898, on 10 January 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Why should I be at an inherent disadvantage just because I can't afford to throw senseless amounts of money at the MF?

You aren't the one at any inherent disadvantage, it's the bad player guy (that needs gear or Nike Terminators to make up for skill) with the inherent disadvantage.
It wouldn't serve to give him an advantage against you, it only makes up for his skill disadvantage.

Cuz you ain't a bad player, he is, remember?

So if you aren't a bad, why worry?

Edited by Trei, 11 January 2013 - 02:05 AM.

[Ghostwing]

Gileas898, on 11 January 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Seriously, you are using what I said in my latest post as replies to what you typed several posts ago. It's the worst kind of OT baiting, please stop it. If you can't bring anything new to the discussion then just stop posting.



No. You said that WoW was more grindy than GW2, and now you claim it's the same after I pointed out what I did.



No. You inquired about what PvE competition there was. I pointed you in the right direction. Don't turn this around into something else.



Speedclearing.

No, I have never claimed WoW grinding was the same as GW2 grinding. Where in my post did you read that? I have always said the WoW grind was worse. Let me summarize how I see the current situation, as we're obviously miscommunicating somewhere.

You quoted someone else who said WoW grinding sucks because of content gating etc, and you called them a hypocrite of some sort because they are now defending GW2 for having the same grind. I then said no, WoW grind has way worse RNG and grind than the GW2 grind, and the GW2 content gate is more akin to WoW hardmodes than it is tiers. Then you said no GW2 grind is worse. I then pointed out the RNG situation in WoW, and then you said vanilla WoW is different from current WoW. I asked how. You said they had no tokens, which is indicative of MORE RNG. I then asked how does that help YOUR case in saying the GW2 grind is worse, when vanilla WoW had even more RNG? Why even bring up vanilla WoW when the grind was worse than the current WoW, which I claim is worse than GW2? I have NEVER said WoW's grind is the same as the GW2 grind, and I stand by that.

Point 2. Whoops, you're right, I should've been more clear in the question. Let's put it into context. You're saying PVE competitions shouldn't involve gear stats (as far as I can tell). Other people are saying there is no PVE competition in GW2. You then say there is competition in the PVE community. I then asked what competition in the PVE community are you referring to. Then, as examples, you list competitions that involve gear stats. How does that help your case in saying PVE competitions shouldn't involve gear stats when the examples of PVE competition you list involve gear stats?

As for me quoting your latest posts as replies to previous posts, well yeah, it's the same discussion isn't it? I was not aware each post was supposed to be independent from the rest of the thread and conversation.

Edited by Ghostwing, 11 January 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[Gerroh]

ITT: Everyone thinks Anet is evil.

I've no issue, I agree with the devs, you can choose your own difficulty.
The post saying the Lightbringer title wasn't a real barrier but exotics/ascended gear is made me laugh.

[Gileas898]

Horus Moonlight, on 11 January 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

Speedclearing represented, at best, a small minority of the PvE base. There was no point when speedclearing was ever more popular than PvP in GW1.

Oh really? How come ToA frequently had 3 or more districts? How come Doomlore Shrine had several districts most of the time? Same for Vlox's falls. What about the multitude of guilds doing DoA? Deep? Urgoz.

GWSC had a forum more active than GWGuru PvP forum, and that forum was only used by people who were hardcore into records. Meanwhile the PvP community was begging people on GWGuru to play PvP, because they simply didn't have anyone to play against.
I could of course bring up the old threads if you really want me to, but I believe you know what I am talking about.

Trei, on 11 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

You aren't the one at any inherent disadvantage, it's the bad player guy (that needs gear or Nike Terminators to make up for skill) with the inherent disadvantage.
It wouldn't serve to give him an advantage against you, it only makes up for his skill disadvantage.

Cuz you ain't a bad player, he is, remember?

So if you aren't a bad, why worry?

I see what your point of view on this is. You want people with thick wallets to be able to compete with skilled players. You are free to think this way, but I will respectfully disagree.

Ghostwing, on 11 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

You quoted someone else who said WoW grinding sucks because of content gating etc, and you called them a hypocrite of some sort because they are now defending GW2 for having the same grind. I then said no, WoW grind has way worse RNG and grind than the GW2 grind, and the GW2 content gate is more akin to WoW hardmodes than it is tiers. Then you said no GW2 grind is worse. I then pointed out the RNG situation in WoW, and then you said vanilla WoW is different from current WoW. I asked how. You said they had no tokens, which is indicative of MORE RNG. I then asked how does that help YOUR case in saying the GW2 grind is worse, when vanilla WoW had even more RNG? Why even bring up vanilla WoW when the grind was worse than the current WoW, which I claim is worse than GW2? I have NEVER said WoW's grind is the same as the GW2 grind, and I stand by that.

No, that's when I pointed out that the grind for 2 pieces of gear in GW2 is way more grindy than the grind for 2 pieces of gear in WoW. I also pointed out that you know nothing of how to acquire Ascended gear in the future, so your argument of the last few BiS pieces being hard to acquire was irrelevant. Then you pointed out that Ascended gear would probably not be RNG in the future, since that's what Arena Net is going for with the rings. I pointed out the changes in WoW loot and GW2 loot to prove that game companies don't always stick to a certain plan.

Ghostwing, on 11 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

Point 2. Whoops, you're right, I should've been more clear in the question. Let's put it into context. You're saying PVE competitions shouldn't involve gear stats (as far as I can tell). Other people are saying there is no PVE competition in GW2. You then say there is competition in the PVE community. I then asked what competition in the PVE community are you referring to. Then, as examples, you list competitions that involve gear stats. How does that help your case in saying PVE competitions shouldn't involve gear stats when the examples of PVE competition you list involve gear stats?

WvWvW is imbalanced. You admit it yourself. Would it be more competitive if every team could field the exact same amount of people at a certain time? Yes. Does that mean it's not competitive at all? Nope.

There are many shades of grey.

Ghostwing, on 11 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

As for me quoting your latest posts as replies to previous posts, well yeah, it's the same discussion isn't it? I was not aware each post was supposed to be independent from the rest of the thread and conversation.

I just have a problem with you taking my replies out of context and molding them to fit something you said in earlier posts, which I replied to. If you want to bring up old stuff then use what I replied to those posts as reference instead of my new posts.

[Just Horus]

Gileas898, on 11 January 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Oh really? How come ToA frequently had 3 or more districts? How come Doomlore Shrine had several districts most of the time? Same for Vlox's falls. What about the multitude of guilds doing DoA? Deep? Urgoz.

GWSC had a forum more active than GWGuru PvP forum, and that forum was only used by people who were hardcore into records. Meanwhile the PvP community was begging people on GWGuru to play PvP, because they simply didn't have anyone to play against.
I could of course bring up the old threads if you really want me to, but I believe you know what I am talking about.

Now compare that to the multiple districts in RA, JQ, FA, HA, and the plethora of guilds that still participated in GvG even in its decline. Even when discounting Codex, AB, and the bots in RA and JQ, the number of players participating in PvP blew SC out of the water. The PvP community wasn't begging players to PvP because there was no one to play against, it was because they dropped below the critical mass of players needed to keep PvP modes thriving. Hyperboles aren't needed. Oh and FYI, the GWGuru forum wasn't the main forum for GW PvP...

[Gileas898]

Horus Moonlight, on 11 January 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

Now compare that to the multiple districts in RA, JQ, FA, HA, and the plethora of guilds that still participated in GvG even in its decline. Even when discounting Codex, AB, and the bots in RA and JQ, the number of players participating in PvP blew SC out of the water. The PvP community wasn't begging players to PvP because there was no one to play against, it was because they dropped below the critical mass of players needed to keep PvP modes thriving. Hyperboles aren't needed. Oh and FYI, the GWGuru forum wasn't the main forum for GW PvP...

So what you are saying is that the competitive PvP players totally spent a lot of time playing FA and JQ?

Jesus christ...

[Just Horus]

And competitive SCers were doing anything other than UW, DoA, FoW, and Urgoz/Kanaxi

Love how you can include trash dungeons into your arguement but I can't include trash PvP modes into mine.

Jesus christ...

Edited by Horus Moonlight, 11 January 2013 - 04:40 AM.

[Manzana]

I love how people everywhere speak as if their opinions are the only ones that are valid and matter.  Just a few days ago, there was a huge argument in LA in SoS about how Guild Wars 2 was boring for many players because they got their exotics within the first month and now there's nothing to do.  When I brought up the fact that Ascended gear did have stat increases, they complained that it wasn't enough of a difference to motivate them to go out for the new tier.  Basically, many players see the gear treadmill as the only scale in which progression in game could be measured.  

I can already see many logical arguments against this, some of which including "omg ur wrong" or perhaps even "their're stupid".  Well, the point is this: just because you may feel "betrayed" because Anet slightly increased the gear cap, there are those who want the increase to be even higher.  There is not a single target audience for GW2, and sometimes, you just have to compromise.

[Gileas898]

Horus Moonlight, on 11 January 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

And competitive SCers were doing anything other than UW, DoA, FoW, and Urgoz/Kanaxi

Love how you can include trash dungeons into your arguement but I can't include trash PvP modes into mine.

Jesus christ...

Many of the dungeon records were held by the people who also held records in UW, DoA, FoW. The dungeons are competitive.

FA and JQ, where you are teamed with complete randoms, consisting mostly of PvE players who want to farm some for their title or maybe a few Amber Shards for their armor, where the only goal is set in stone and there is no way to measure performance, I seriously doubt that there is competition. But maybe in your mind...

Or maybe it's just the fact that you realize how stupid it sounds to say that RA and HA had a larger population than Doomlore / Vlox / GoA / ToA and had to plaster on some PvP missions where there is no competition at all, and where the majority of the players are PvE'rs who just want a break with some >-casual-< PvP, to make your argument sounds even remotely credible.

[Just Horus]

Who the * cares if the same people who ran UW, DoA, FoW ran the other dungeons. Why should they be counted multiple times in the population of SCers? Should I do the same for every top GvG player who steps foot in HA, AB, JQ, FA, RA? Should I do that for every high rank HAer who guests for a GvG team?

Complete randoms RA. Complete randoms in SoO.

Or maybe it's the fact that if you stripped away most casual SCers you would have only a small lot across a few guilds. If you did that with PvPers you would have multiple guilds and higher tier HAers.

And what I like even more is the fact that you totally ignore confounds like the large number of individuals in ToA who weren't involved in SC at all (this is ignoring that the population in RA > Doomlore and Vlox combined and it is pretty safe to assume the majority of people in RA were actually playing RA).

Go on with the your delusions that the SC population was anywhere near close to the PvP population. What a joke.

[Ritualist]

Manzana, on 11 January 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

Well, the point is this: just because you may feel "betrayed" because Anet slightly increased the gear cap, there are those who want the increase to be even higher.  There is not a single target audience for GW2, and sometimes, you just have to compromise.

The problem is when you compromise about the shit you said, or at least gave the impression, you wouldn't compromise on. The fact that folks max "easily" out their gear was something that was expected, with many of us actually buying the game because of it.
The reason why A.Net "compromised" was because the game lacks content and the easiest way to create "content " is to throw out a few pieces of gear with higher numbers that you need ages to obtain.

[Arquenya]

Humungous, on 11 January 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

ANet isn't Enron. They're gamers like anyone of us, and they sure as hell aren't in it for the $$!

Funny that they don't make that impression at all.

"ANet" as a whole may be mainly be composed out of nice people (no doubt Andy is one of them) who love to make nice games, but I'm not so sure about the people pulling the (financial) strings and making the strategic decisions.
I'm sorry but for me it's 100% impossible that there's just people that want to make a great game behind GW2. Especially as those are for a great part the same ones that made GW1. Really. Absolutely Not Possible.

Ghostwing, on 11 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

vanilla WoW is different from current WoW. I asked how. You said they had no tokens, which is indicative of MORE RNG.

As far as I know, drops can't be "rolled for" anymore but everyone gets his/her own "personalized" reward. So for example, leather wearers don't get platemail stuff, casters never get bows.

Var, on 10 January 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

[Because it's even more boring the 100th time than the WoW system.]
Exaggerated, subjective points are irrelevant to this discussion.

Well .. what's subjective? If you get a guaranteed reward after 200 runs, is that better than having a 99% chance of getting something within 50 runs?

Edited by Arquenya, 11 January 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Trei]

Gileas898, on 11 January 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

...
I see what your point of view on this is. You want people with thick wallets to be able to compete with skilled players. You are free to think this way, but I will respectfully disagree....

No, I'm afraid you have yet to see what my point is.

It has nothing to do with rich people getting to compete with skilled players using their wealth, simply because there is nothing they can buy in the game to elevate them enough to compete with skilled players.

If these rich players are truly bad players, ascended armor will not help them against you, the skilled player.

If the difference between ascended armor and exotic does indeed cause them to win you, the skilled player, then they are either not so bad after all or you are nowhere as skilled as you believe yourself to be.

A bad player is not going to magically turn into an MLG pro just because he upgrade from exotic to ascended gear.

Edited by Trei, 11 January 2013 - 03:07 PM.

[Arquenya]

Manzana, on 11 January 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

I love how people everywhere speak as if their opinions are the only ones that are valid and matter.  Just a few days ago, there was a huge argument in LA in SoS about how Guild Wars 2 was boring for many players because they got their exotics within the first month and now there's nothing to do.  When I brought up the fact that Ascended gear did have stat increases, they complained that it wasn't enough of a difference to motivate them to go out for the new tier.  Basically, many players see the gear treadmill as the only scale in which progression in game could be measured.  

Perhaps (not former GW players though) but many people I know expect getting good gear as preparation for facing challenging content, not the end content itself. Many see levelling and getting gear as a kind of school to find out the finesse of your class and what's after that the place to apply that knowlegde. If there's not a lot after that, it can be a disappointment.

Trei, on 11 January 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

It has nothing to do with rich people getting to compete with skilled players using their wealth, simply because there is nothing they can buy in the game to elevate them enough to compete with skilled players.

If these rich players are truly bad players, ascended armor will not help them against you, the skilled player.

Well. If the rich players are average players that don't have time to play a lot and I'm a poor, average player that doesn't have time to play a lot, the one with the fat wallet can get the best gear and beat me because of his money.

Your story is only true if the rich ones are bad players and the skilled players have a lot of time to grind their best gear.

Edited by Arquenya, 11 January 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[Pipples]

Alleji, on 20 November 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

Ascended gear would've been perfect without additional stats except for the agony resistance.

Yep, but once I saw the previews I saw they were adding a treadmill they promised would never exist. I quit, tried to go back to SWTOR and last week joined Project 1999.

I've spent the last week in gamers heaven...