Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
* * - - - 4 votes

What happened with Tyrian assembly?


  • Please log in to reply
233 replies to this topic

#121 Daesu

Daesu

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1344 posts
  • Guild Tag:[NPO]
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:00 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 21 November 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

You do seem to ignore the fact that "Save Yourself!" needed rather major grind in order to reach that level and so did Pain Inverter.

You always have +100 armor to everyone around you within shout radius.  The difference is only a matter of seconds and you can get it for 5s by level 2.  I don't think reaching level 2 is a grind to be honest and you can easily reach that level by playing the game.  If you really want that 1s more (6s) then you only need to reach level 5, which is a little grindy but not much especially with the update they have done to JQ.

Edited by Daesu, 21 November 2012 - 08:03 AM.


#122 TheVice

TheVice

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 125 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:05 AM

View PostReikou, on 20 November 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

3 weeks ago anet didn't completely abandon the game that they set out to make with the manifesto.

Can only quote.
As a casual person with life who loves mmos, I only played it because I knew there's nobody out there who has better gear than me. Small margin or not, it matters alot to me to know that I have THE best gear. And I was happy with it. That's why I started playing GW2 and even bought gems few times. If I knew it's going to be another gear grindfest in party, I'd quit it long ago.

#123 Princess Fatora

Princess Fatora

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 398 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:08 AM

Quote

These things have been in basically every MMORPG ever made

This is a big problem: Most players playing GW2 have no idea whatsoever about MMOs, as evidenced by this post from Larsen. Most MMO-Players think that MMO is identical to warcraft, and have no idea whatsoever about the actual genre in reality.

These things have, of course, not been in "basically every" MMORPG ever made. They have been in less than 5% of all MMORPGs ever made. They are also not exactly a good or needed feature, the only people that even care for them are statnerds, which is why you mostly find this feature in statnerd games.

That's the main thing: Most people these days confuse MMO with statnerd-fetishgames, but that's not actually true historically, it's just the recent fad. It'll collapse like every other fad sooner or later. Probably later, since statnerds tend to rely on the income of their parents, and thus can spend quite well. But collapse it will: Nothing lasts forever.

Quote

removing them is what's really nonsensica

Only if you want to make a game based on "progression" of stats. If you want to make a good MMO, not having them makes sense. As evidenced by your posting, they don't actually add anything of value.

Not having these tools is not a step backwards, but a step forward, they're a dead end, design wise, similar to your cecum.

#124 Lordkrall

Lordkrall

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5370 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:09 AM

View PostDaesu, on 21 November 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

You always have +100 armor to everyone around you within shout radius.  The difference is only a matter of seconds and you can get it for 5s by level 2.  I don't think reaching level 2 is a grind to be honest and you can easily reach that level by playing the game.  If you really want that 1s more (6s) then you only need to reach level 5, which is a little grindy but not much especially with the update they have done to JQ.

And in those "matter of seconds" you could quite easily die.
How is it not a grind to get 125000 faction? It take quite a few days to get to that (if not speed-clearing, but that is still grinding)

#125 Daesu

Daesu

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1344 posts
  • Guild Tag:[NPO]
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:14 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 21 November 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

And in those "matter of seconds" you could quite easily die.
How is it not a grind to get 125000 faction? It take quite a few days to get to that (if not speed-clearing, but that is still grinding)

When you said "matter of seconds" you actually mean that 1s difference between level 2 and level 5?  Lol...
You need at least 100,000 factions to play through the game and you only need 250,000 factions to reach level 2 which you should be able to attain by completing the missions that are required to complete the game.  Factions are easy to earn.

Edited by Daesu, 21 November 2012 - 08:15 AM.


#126 Lordkrall

Lordkrall

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5370 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

View PostDaesu, on 21 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

When you said "matter of seconds" you actually mean that 1s difference between level 2 and level 5?  Lol...
You need at least 100,000 factions to play through the game and you only need 250,000 factions to reach level 2 which you should be able to attain by completing the missions that are required to complete the game.  Factions are easy to earn.

No, I quoted you. You used the "matter of seconds" point and I simply show that those "matter of seconds" could kill you.

No, you need 10.000 Faction to play through the game. (or 20.000 if you want to do all missions),

#127 Daesu

Daesu

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1344 posts
  • Guild Tag:[NPO]
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:17 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 21 November 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

No, I quoted you. You used the "matter of seconds" point and I simply show that those "matter of seconds" could kill you.

No, you need 10.000 Faction to play through the game. (or 20.000 if you want to do all missions),

No I did not.  I said it is only a 1s difference between a level 2 and level 5 SY and you should be able to reach at least level 2 just by completing the game.

Edited by Daesu, 21 November 2012 - 08:18 AM.


#128 Lordkrall

Lordkrall

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5370 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:18 AM

View PostDaesu, on 21 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

No I did not.  I said it is only a 1s difference between a level 2 and level 5 SY and you should be able to reach level 2 just by completing the game.

Re-read the post I quoted from you.
It quite clearly says: "The difference is only a matter of seconds"

#129 Daesu

Daesu

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1344 posts
  • Guild Tag:[NPO]
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:19 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 21 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

Re-read the post I quoted from you.
It quite clearly says: "The difference is only a matter of seconds"

You should read my post again and not cut out mid-sentences to take them out of context.

Edited by Daesu, 21 November 2012 - 08:20 AM.


#130 RedStar

RedStar

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1793 posts
  • Location:_________________ (\__/)(\__/) (\__/)Help__ (='.'=)(='.'=)(='.'=)Allie__ (")_(")(")_(")(")_(")Bunny

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:20 AM

View PostDaesu, on 20 November 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

Don't you know that ArenaNet has control of the economy in GW2?  If the cost of gems are too low, they can just make gold and buy them back.  Their gold sinks, which they also control, would take care of inflation.  Don't forget that ArenaNet was the one who reset the price of the superior absorption rune in GW1 from 100+ plats to 200 gold and it stayed that way.

It is THEIR game afterall.  They own the game code and servers.

Only 5%?  I can give +100 armor to everyone around me with just "Save Yourself!" every 6s, and deal 140% of the damage back with "Pain Inverter", who cares about your LB title then?

Like I have said, PvE skills determine your performance in DoA more than LB title does.

And by the way, you can farm to max your LB title in 1 to 2 days.  Probably need more gold than 2 days worth of farming to get all your Ascended.

Anet didn't reset anything....Superior Absoprtion fell down because they changed how it worked, thus it became less desirable...
It's rare to find someone that wants the developper to control (in front of everyone) the economy.

So you are chosing to argue like that ? Because I can say the same thing about skills in GW2 : Oh look at that skill it gives me armor, haha ! Thus I don't need ascended armor ! ....
LB is permanent, those skills aren't.
And did you even read the whole thing ? 5% per level...that's 40% at max level.
Yeah you can max your LB titles in 2 days, but some people out there got their infusions and ascended backpacks in a day...so yeah, different playstyle, different time neede.

#131 Daesu

Daesu

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1344 posts
  • Guild Tag:[NPO]
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:23 AM

View PostRedStar, on 21 November 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Anet didn't reset anything....Superior Absoprtion fell down because they changed how it worked, thus it became less desirable...
It's rare to find someone that wants the developper to control (in front of everyone) the economy.

No that is not true.  There was an update that reset their prices.

Like I said, PvE skills are more important than LB for DoA.  Believe it or not, that is up to you.

Edited by Daesu, 21 November 2012 - 08:25 AM.


#132 Larsen

Larsen

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 224 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:29 AM

View PostPrincess Fatora, on 21 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

This is a big problem: Most players playing GW2 have no idea whatsoever about MMOs, as evidenced by this post from Larsen. Most MMO-Players think that MMO is identical to warcraft, and have no idea whatsoever about the actual genre in reality.

I really wish people around here could at least try to have discussions without bringing up WoW in the first sentence. Not everything is a direct comparison between the two games, not everything is a reference to WoW, and not everything you disagree with can be discredited with that trite, ridiculous and primitive 'you're just a WoW fanboy!' fallacy.

Quote

These things have, of course, not been in "basically every" MMORPG ever made. They have been in less than 5% of all MMORPGs ever made.

That's a preposterous statement. So almost no MMORPGs have features such as a /who command or the ability to inspect other players? Have you played any other MMORPGs? They've been in literally every one I've ever played, and I've been with the genre since Everquest launched.

Quote

They are also not exactly a good or needed feature, the only people that even care for them are statnerds, which is why you mostly find this feature in statnerd games.

In any game where it matters what people wear or how they've built their character, i.e any game that requires cooperation and a group setup, they're good and needed features. Stop trying to be pretentiously progressive by suggesting that GW2 is some hippie game where you can do anything you want without anybody having the right to care at all.

Quote

That's the main thing: Most people these days confuse MMO with statnerd-fetishgames, but that's not actually true historically, it's just the recent fad. It'll collapse like every other fad sooner or later. Probably later, since statnerds tend to rely on the income of their parents, and thus can spend quite well. But collapse it will: Nothing lasts forever.

Uh, it is very true "historically." I don't know what compels you to insult and discredit a demographic by labeling them with unflattering terms like 'statnerd,' but since the entire MMORPG genre is based on purely text-based MUDs, yes, it very much is a genre that emphasises numerical values and coded features. The genre is born of the very thing. GW2 is fundamentally no different, which is why there are such things as stats, equipment and traits, although they obviously tried to tone it down a notch from the muddled numbercrunching hell of other recent MMORPGs.

Quote

Only if you want to make a game based on "progression" of stats. If you want to make a good MMO, not having them makes sense. As evidenced by your posting, they don't actually add anything of value.

I suspect your rhetoric stems from a loathing of the dreaded GearScore blemish that plagued WoW and that you're just judging everything in extremes in order to express your aversion to that. It's really quite ignorant to imply that a game with stats is a bad game.

Quote

Not having these tools is not a step backwards, but a step forward, they're a dead end, design wise, similar to your cecum.

That's some of the worst apologist nonsense I've read this week. You're trying to praise ANet's neglect of crucial MMORPG features, out of simple bias and of hostility to another game. It's both obvious and a little comical. Next I suppose you'll claim that the lack of a physical authenticator in a 2012 MMORPG is some kind of brilliant anti-materialistic spiritual movement on ANet's part.

#133 Zippor

Zippor

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 136 posts
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

View PostRandolfRa, on 21 November 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

Simple question: why it is not real pvp? Do realise that not everyone cares for the steril, pseudo-fps king of the hill crap.

Because WvW deals more with siege warfare, population management and big group fights. You cannot balance a game around that, so it cannot be as skillful and relevant in the actual player encounters as sPvP. Arenanet advertised sPvP as the balanced PvP arena that will not be affected by gearing. What people here are pointing is that the new Ascended somehow breaks that PvP balance, which is just plainly wrong. WvW was intended as a playground for people interested more in PvE but still has some interest on player encounters or to players that love massive PvP, they said it won't be balanced so it is as advertised.

Edited by Zippor, 21 November 2012 - 10:51 AM.


#134 Robsy128

Robsy128

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2920 posts
  • Location:Rata Sum
  • Profession:Ranger
  • Server:Yak’s Bend

Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:06 AM

So let me get this straight...
People complained about there being no progression once you've hit level 80.
Arenanet added new content and a new gear tier.
People now complain about the new content and new gear tier.

Welcome to the Internet, I suppose.

To be honest, though, I find myself agreeing. It was hard enough to get the max stat gear at level 80 without crafting disciplines. Now I have to play more to get higher level gear so that I have max stats again. I mean... really?
Leave the armour alone and add new content, as in new areas, new bosses, new enemies, new NPCs. Add weapon skins and things which we can show off to other players to say 'yeah, I've been to that area... yeah, I beat it.'

That said, if they now leave the gear tiers alone, I'll be fine with it. It will soon become the normal. I think most people are panicking because they think that Arenanet will add new gear tiers with each expansion or content update, thus making a gear treadmill. I wish Arenanet would learn from their mistakes and just speak English to us. Keeping their fans in the dark just makes them worried and could make them leave the game in fear of what will happen next. It also seems shady to not speak openly about these complaints. I mean no offence when I say this, as I am a fan of Arenanet, but they need to keep to their vision of the game and tell their players about it.

#135 Minion

Minion

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 761 posts
  • Location:moi preciouss council house
  • Guild Tag:[Fäp]
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:16 AM

View Postblindude, on 20 November 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

lol you must  have been really hyped over the game to think of this..its amazing what things people expect from a game nowdays.
Either that or i cant see how its justified to claim such a thing in this case.

Now you're just lying to yourself.

#136 Xavier

Xavier

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 66 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:00 PM

View PostLarsen, on 20 November 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Something similar happened with Diablo 3, although a bit faster since the problems were even more obvious in that game. Forums were bubbly and cheerful and hating the haters up until a certain point where, seemingly from one week to the next, the tides turned. I don't remember if any particular thing set it off, but here it could very well be the disastrous Lost Shore event. It was also the first time a negative post wasn't immediately downvoted into oblivion on reddit's GW2 forum, a place that was long known as the ultimate fanboy circlejerk joke-community due to its voting system and their users' ability to censor anything they don't like to hear.

I don't think Ascended gear is the sole culprit. A lot of people didn't like it, but they'd live with it if the game was good. I think a lot of people have been kind of in denial, or have knowingly given the game chances despite having already seen the elephant in the room. It's like The Emperor's New Clothes and the child has finally shouted that the emperor is really naked, prompting more and more people to drop the illusion. Nobody could defend the Lost Shores event, and I think it triggered a kind of collective "screw it" wave. People who had been giving the game second, third, fourth and fifteenth chances were out of patience and tolerance.

GW2 has some good things, some excellent features and innovative systems, but it's a low-quality product. It feels like when you were a kid and someone gave you one of those cheap knock-off toys. You could tell that it resembled the expensive toys, it even had some cool features, but it still had that crummy cheap discount feeling with the bad, brittle plastic and the strange lightness that made you realize that there wasn't real quality in the product. I feel the same way with GW2 -- I praise some of its mechanics and underlying systems to this day, but the gameplay and content is just discount and feels like holding a $4.99 knock-off action figure.

A few weeks ago I would have laughed at this post, but after getting my ranger to lvl 80, I'm glad someone dared to say this. Thank you for this.

#137 Dasryn

Dasryn

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1570 posts
  • Location:USA (GMT -5)
  • Profession:Thief
  • Guild Tag:[Myth]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:04 PM

i think the OP is full of assumptions.

the biggest one is: "because the front page isnt full of people defending the game, that must mean we've all agreed that the game failed/cant defend the game anymore."

thats just not the case.  and with most assumptions, you must take them at face value.

*now i know you didnt say that verbatim, but thats the implication that i identified from your post.

#138 RandolfRa

RandolfRa

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 414 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:08 PM

View PostZippor, on 21 November 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Because WvW deals more with siege warfare, population management and big group fights. You cannot balance a game around that, so it cannot be as skillful and relevant in the actual player encounters as sPvP.
Thus the correct conclusion would be: the skill of an invidual player is less relevant in wvw mass fight. It is still pvp in every sense of the word.

Quote

Arenanet advertised sPvP as the balanced PvP arena that will not be affected by gearing. What people here are pointing is that the new Ascended somehow breaks that PvP balance, which is just plainly wrong. WvW was intended as a playground for people interested more in PvE but still has some interest on player encounters or to players that love massive PvP, they said it won't be balanced so it is as advertised.
Whether the new gear affects the balance of big fights, I don't necessarily care. The gear does however, have effect in the small scale fights and duels. The type of fights that I like. But even that isn't necessarily an issue. What bothers me and some of my friends the most is that in order to obtain the better gear, we have to grind in a dungeon we have otherwise no interest at all. If they make it possible to obtain the gear through say wvw badges, I stop complaining.

Edited by RandolfRa, 21 November 2012 - 12:13 PM.


#139 blindude

blindude

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1142 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:15 PM

View PostMinion, on 21 November 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

Now you're just lying to yourself.
No im not..really.Im as honest as i can be BUT know that i havent touched gw1 so my epxerience is with wow and wow clones and some korean grinders :P

#140 Zippor

Zippor

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 136 posts
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:08 PM

View PostRandolfRa, on 21 November 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Thus the correct conclusion would be: the skill of an invidual player is less relevant in wvw mass fight. It is still pvp in every sense of the word.


Whether the new gear affects the balance of big fights, I don't necessarily care. The gear does however, have effect in the small scale fights and duels. The type of fights that I like. But even that isn't necessarily an issue. What bothers me and some of my friends the most is that in order to obtain the better gear, we have to grind in a dungeon we have otherwise no interest at all. If they make it possible to obtain the gear through say wvw badges, I stop complaining.

But you still cannot balance the game around WvW player encounters and the game was advertised as so, which was the original complaint of the post I was referring to. The game was advertised as having PvP that isn't affected by gearing and it still holds true, that was my argument. I might have slipped with the last statement saying WvW being less real PvP than sPvP but that wasn't the point.

#141 Zero_Soulreaver

Zero_Soulreaver

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 393 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:25 PM

From the start of GW2 the game has had the same issues. It is in part the community and Anet too as said before. None of the issues are getting better because Anet have yet to put their foot down on what they want the game to be.  It's all on them to make the decision and not the fans.  I get they want to listen to fan feedback, but they are not reasonable enough with it.

Instead of taking small suggestions they listen to everything and their is no real tossing ideas around.  Someone complains Anet go "oh you want that?! Ok ok we will change it".  It's like being in a relationship where the significant other just smothers you and is desperate to keep you around.  Hardcore/casual, it doesn't matter...nobody wants that kind of relationship.

I played GW2 b/c I was hoping it would establish itself as something interesting like GW1 did. No I don't want it to be GW1.  Anet have been too busy jumping around ideas and beating around the bush to get to the freakin point.

It is certainly the community and Anet make it hella worse but catering to it and only glossing over certain ideals of MMOs.  The problem I have is they are listening to the wrong people.  You don't take advice from fans who only want to please themselves because every single day will be something different.  The game falls short of the main goals of modern day gaming in general.  It has no target audience, the target audience is considered to be "you" but who?  It's meant to be everyone, however it can't be everyone and can't be everything.


Just look at Anet recently thinking to add Moba type elements in the game.  It's just reaching and pulling itself even more further away from the core gameplay.  Everything in GW2 has been a distraction from the core gameplay of the game because their really isn't much to it.  I don't know if gear grind is a step in the right direction b/c knowing Anet they will half ass it because of complaints just like everything else.  Not saying I really do or do not want this grind, I honestly don't care I would rather them have more focus. They need to man up and decide on stuff instead of making the fans do it.

The lack of focus is in the gameplay-
Anet did too much back talking since day 1 and people are just seeing it?  Granted I do not take anything they said seriously.
They admit we uncovered so much more than they thought but it all comes back to a big issue in the leveling up system.

-You level so fast without really doing anything.  The amount of exp from story events is so big, also each story event has a lv requirement which makes you want to reach said lv if you like the story.

-Their is no real level progression, in terms of lv 60 feeling harder to lv than lv 25, none of that.  You can complete heart events without actually doing them. Idk if this is a bug or still exists or what but many times I have gotten "complete" without doing anything while walking around between towns.  That being said...you gain exp just for going to new areas.  If you go to a high lv area to explore you gain a lot of exp there.

-Dungeons require a certain lv and if you do a dun. at required lvl you get lots of exp from it. The first time I ran AC I think I lvled maybe 2 times or so per run.

Their are so many reasons for you to lvl even if it's not on purpose.  You don't have to be a grind lord to hit 80 or high lvl. This is why many of us found the game boring early on, we played a lot yes but you should not be giving away exp like it's candy. I hit 80 in the first week or so. It's really not our fault and the people who actually rushed were hella a lot faster than that.

What kind of MMO is GW2 meant to be?  I have been asking this question since release and not once have I been able to answer this in thought.  It's ironic how this feels like Anet's very first attempt at an MMO but it sure isn't.

~What am I really disappointed with?  Key components and the community, MMOs usually find something to pride themselves on and stick to it.  Anet tried but really it backfired, they prided themselves on story...that was a huge hole at higher lvls and especially the ending. They tried to pride themselves as being different than other MMOs in terms of grind and lvling, however this is a core problem with the gameplay as I said above.  They pride themselves on the community and being "social".  Yet people freely admit on here and other forums they don't care to play with others at all and want to solo.

Pretty much everything backfired in Anet's face and GW2 feels more like an failed experiment.

Edited by Zero_Soulreaver, 21 November 2012 - 03:30 PM.


#142 Kymeric

Kymeric

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1984 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

View PostRobsy128, on 21 November 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

So let me get this straight...
People complained about there being no progression once you've hit level 80.
Arenanet added new content and a new gear tier.
People now complain about the new content and new gear tier.

Welcome to the Internet, I suppose.

You know those are two different groups of people, right?

#143 Lordkrall

Lordkrall

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5370 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

View PostKymeric, on 21 November 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

You know those are two different groups of people, right?

Sadly enough in some cases there are not.
I see several people that shouted about "nothing to do" now shout about "gear treadmill!"

#144 Zero_Soulreaver

Zero_Soulreaver

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 393 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

I honestly haven't seen much of that going on and don't really care because it must be such a small group nobody really cares about it.

#145 raspberry jam

raspberry jam

    Vigil Crusader

  • Members
  • 4844 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:02 PM

View PostZero_Soulreaver, on 21 November 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

From the start of GW2 the game has had the same issues. It is in part the community and Anet too as said before. None of the issues are getting better because Anet have yet to put their foot down on what they want the game to be.  It's all on them to make the decision and not the fans.  I get they want to listen to fan feedback, but they are not reasonable enough with it.

Instead of taking small suggestions they listen to everything and their is no real tossing ideas around.  Someone complains Anet go "oh you want that?! Ok ok we will change it".  It's like being in a relationship where the significant other just smothers you and is desperate to keep you around.  Hardcore/casual, it doesn't matter...nobody wants that kind of relationship.

I played GW2 b/c I was hoping it would establish itself as something interesting like GW1 did. No I don't want it to be GW1.  Anet have been too busy jumping around ideas and beating around the bush to get to the freakin point.

It is certainly the community and Anet make it hella worse but catering to it and only glossing over certain ideals of MMOs.  The problem I have is they are listening to the wrong people.  You don't take advice from fans who only want to please themselves because every single day will be something different.  The game falls short of the main goals of modern day gaming in general.  It has no target audience, the target audience is considered to be "you" but who?  It's meant to be everyone, however it can't be everyone and can't be everything.


Just look at Anet recently thinking to add Moba type elements in the game.  It's just reaching and pulling itself even more further away from the core gameplay.  Everything in GW2 has been a distraction from the core gameplay of the game because their really isn't much to it.  I don't know if gear grind is a step in the right direction b/c knowing Anet they will half ass it because of complaints just like everything else.  Not saying I really do or do not want this grind, I honestly don't care I would rather them have more focus. They need to man up and decide on stuff instead of making the fans do it.

The lack of focus is in the gameplay-
Anet did too much back talking since day 1 and people are just seeing it?  Granted I do not take anything they said seriously.
They admit we uncovered so much more than they thought but it all comes back to a big issue in the leveling up system.

-You level so fast without really doing anything.  The amount of exp from story events is so big, also each story event has a lv requirement which makes you want to reach said lv if you like the story.

-Their is no real level progression, in terms of lv 60 feeling harder to lv than lv 25, none of that.  You can complete heart events without actually doing them. Idk if this is a bug or still exists or what but many times I have gotten "complete" without doing anything while walking around between towns.  That being said...you gain exp just for going to new areas.  If you go to a high lv area to explore you gain a lot of exp there.

-Dungeons require a certain lv and if you do a dun. at required lvl you get lots of exp from it. The first time I ran AC I think I lvled maybe 2 times or so per run.

Their are so many reasons for you to lvl even if it's not on purpose.  You don't have to be a grind lord to hit 80 or high lvl. This is why many of us found the game boring early on, we played a lot yes but you should not be giving away exp like it's candy. I hit 80 in the first week or so. It's really not our fault and the people who actually rushed were hella a lot faster than that.

What kind of MMO is GW2 meant to be?  I have been asking this question since release and not once have I been able to answer this in thought.  It's ironic how this feels like Anet's very first attempt at an MMO but it sure isn't.

~What am I really disappointed with?  Key components and the community, MMOs usually find something to pride themselves on and stick to it.  Anet tried but really it backfired, they prided themselves on story...that was a huge hole at higher lvls and especially the ending. They tried to pride themselves as being different than other MMOs in terms of grind and lvling, however this is a core problem with the gameplay as I said above.  They pride themselves on the community and being "social".  Yet people freely admit on here and other forums they don't care to play with others at all and want to solo.

Pretty much everything backfired in Anet's face and GW2 feels more like an failed experiment.
I really liked this post. I see things differently, but we do agree on your final conclusion.

I mainly think that the reason that the story doesn't work is that everything feels so meaningless. Giving away xp for free is obviously intended to help people get to 80 quickly, but in doing so it takes away the point of xp in the first place, leaving only the Skinner box reward button component of leveling. Having most quests (hearts) involve a progress bar where basically every action you take, help fill in the bar, makes it feel even more meaningless, especially when you don't even know why the bar is there or why or from whom you get a reward for filling it up (nor why filling it up did absolutely nothing because the situation that you helped out with is still present).

Totally agreed that there is a lack of focus, not just in which gameplay elements that is important, but in everything whatsoever. Also that ANet seems like the clingy, smothering bf/gf that just shouts "like meeeeeee :qq:". Instead of trying to please everyone, ANet should do what the majority of successful game designers say that they do when asked - "I just made the game that I want to play". Stand for something. That way the people who like the game can play it and the rest won't feel lied to.

View PostLordkrall, on 21 November 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

Sadly enough in some cases there are not.
I see several people that shouted about "nothing to do" now shout about "gear treadmill!"
Because people want actual content, not just more rewards. Now, yes, there was content added, yet the focus on rewards in this game is so high that it overshadows everything else.

#146 Kymeric

Kymeric

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1984 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:09 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 21 November 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

Sadly enough in some cases there are not.
I see several people that shouted about "nothing to do" now shout about "gear treadmill!"

Guess I need to pay more attention to who is saying what.

View Postraspberry jam, on 21 November 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Because people want actual content, not just more rewards. Now, yes, there was content added, yet the focus on rewards in this game is so high that it overshadows everything else.

And this.

"I don't want a gear treadmill" and "There's nothing to do at level cap" aren't necessarily contradictory.

"I don't want a gear treadmill" and "I need something more than cosmetics and achievements to motivate me" are.

#147 NerfHerder

NerfHerder

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 751 posts
  • Location:Florida

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

What happend to the Tyrian assembly forum?

Burned out player is burned out.

You mostly have GW1 vets and hardcore MMO players who have been playing MMOs for the better part of a decade or more. Have you seen the amount of time most of the posters have logged in? Of course they are bored and frustrated. I would be too. I rarely see a casual player complain. I'm still leveling alts, play mostly on my days off, and still loving every minute of it. Its the ones who rushed through it who get frustrated. "Where's the content?" "Well sir, I think you passed about 2/3 of it on your way to 80." And if you dont want to do that, just come back in a month when there is more content.

As for the gear treadmill, no, I dont like it. I would however accept a gear treadmill that only applies to dungeons. Once you leave the dungeon, your stats/whatever are reduced back down to exotic levels. That way the dungeon crawler/treadmill people can still enjoy the game. I'll be happy with bug fixes, profession balancing, lore, new areas, and more dynamic events.

#148 Blixcoe

Blixcoe

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 924 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

the sad part is that it's ''not that much better than exotics'' yet they cost everything ranging from 30g+.
Heck, I can't even afford 22-slot bags as they are 10g. ridiculous.

Edited by Blixcoe, 21 November 2012 - 04:18 PM.


#149 raspberry jam

raspberry jam

    Vigil Crusader

  • Members
  • 4844 posts

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:19 PM

View PostNerfHerder, on 21 November 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

What happend to the Tyrian assembly forum?

Burned out player is burned out.

You mostly have GW1 vets and hardcore MMO players who have been playing MMOs for the better part of a decade or more. Have you seen the amount of time most of the posters have logged in? Of course they are bored and frustrated. I would be too. I rarely see a casual player complain. I'm still leveling alts, play mostly on my days off, and still loving every minute of it. Its the ones who rushed through it who get frustrated. "Where's the content?" "Well sir, I think you passed about 2/3 of it on your way to 80." And if you dont want to do that, just come back in a month when there is more content.

As for the gear treadmill, no, I dont like it. I would however accept a gear treadmill that only applies to dungeons. Once you leave the dungeon, your stats/whatever are reduced back down to exotic levels. That way the dungeon crawler/treadmill people can still enjoy the game. I'll be happy with bug fixes, profession balancing, lore, new areas, and more dynamic events.
No, not even dungeons should be up to whether or not you have gathered enough of a certain type of gear.

#150 RedStar

RedStar

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1793 posts
  • Location:_________________ (\__/)(\__/) (\__/)Help__ (='.'=)(='.'=)(='.'=)Allie__ (")_(")(")_(")(")_(")Bunny

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

View PostDaesu, on 21 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

No that is not true.  There was an update that reset their prices.

Like I said, PvE skills are more important than LB for DoA.  Believe it or not, that is up to you.

Maybe they reseted the price (I have a small doubt and I don't want to do any research...I know they did something with rune and dye traders to give them a common stock for all region), but that's not why Absorption runes stopped being expensive...Vigor runes were still expensive after this update weren't they ?
PvE skills might be more important than LB for DoA, but you are losing sight of the argument. The argument was : "GW1 title weren't really important". I showed that the LB title gave as much bonuses as ascended armor/weapons (depending on who you ask you get a 3%-40% increase), thus clearly showing that titles in GW1 weren't as negligeable as some people think.

Now whether or not you actually need those titles in GW1 is another story, because until you actually do the content, you cannot say for sure that you actually need Ascended armors.

View PostEir, on 21 November 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

i played alot of PvE and alot of PvP in GW1, and im 100% certain i spent more money for items i wanted to use in PvP then i have payed for anything for PvE
I'm fully know why those weapons were expensive, that's why I talked about them as a side thing. Nonetheless, those weapons provided an advantage to those who had them, no matter how small the advantage. The argument was "GW1 didn't have any of this !" when it did in fact have some weapons that gave advantages and that very few people bother to use them in PvE because we were fine without them or used req 8, 15 shields.

Edited by RedStar, 21 November 2012 - 04:24 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users