233 replies to this topic

[RedStar]

ToySoldier, on 22 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Wasn't talking about you.  I said "some".  Won't name them of course.

Oh don't worry, I never take things personally, except of course when there's no way to not take it personnally.

Arquenya, on 22 November 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Well GW didn't have 2 extra tiers of gear after you finished 2/3rds of the content and yet people kept playing for 5 years with just better looks as an incentive, gear-wise.
I don't see any "motivational" aspects in adding two gear tiers (ascended and updated Legendaries, which used to have exotic stats).

It's only one tier. Legendaries are not another tier, they are the same tier as the best tier available.

Edited by RedStar, 22 November 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Menehune]

typographie, on 20 November 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

No, I'm not sure. No more sure than you are, anyway, because there is no information confirming or denying that anywhere. Which begs the question, why does the level cap keep coming up in this thread?

Because some people have perfect crystal balls and know exactly what ArenaNet will do. I envy such people. They must be absolutely filthy rich rolling in money like Scrooge McDuck with their ability to foresee the future. Imagine picking the right stocks all the time, choosing the right Lotto numbers etc. Jelly, jelly, jelly. I hate them too. They tell us what ArenaNet will do, but don't share any stock tips or such with us.

[Arquenya]

RedStar, on 22 November 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

Legendaries are not another tier, they are the same tier as the best tier available.

Really?

If we had exotic as best tier and legendaries just as nice, exclusive skins and subsequently ANet makes legendaries a lot better and introduces ascended as "tier in between", how many extra tiers do we have then?

[Hector]

Arquenya, on 22 November 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

Really?

If we had exotic as best tier and legendaries just as nice, exclusive skins and subsequently ANet makes legendaries a lot better and introduces ascended as "tier in between", how many extra tiers do we have then?

All we have is a bunch of people with terrible cases of cognitive dissonance.

Which is something a lot of people never come to realize.

GW2 is a game-study on cognitive dissonance to me at this point. I believe Anets goal now is to see how much they can get people to believe one thing while completely doing the opposite. Kind of fascinating at this point.

[DuskWolf]

Hector, on 22 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

GW2 is a game-study on cognitive dissonance to me at this point. I believe Anets goal now is to see how much they can get people to believe one thing while completely doing the opposite. Kind of fascinating at this point.

Again you make all of the sense.

See, in another thread I said that Guild Wars 2 is beginning to remind me of a clever social experiment. One of clever manipulation and doublespeak, just to see how easily a group of people can have their perceptions altered through cognitive dissonance. It's got to the point sometimes where I stare on in horror at how effective it is. Sometimes, I look at us, this community, and I ask... why are we such total schmucks?

I'd almost say that we deserve to be abused. Because really, we won't do anything about it when we are. And worse, I've seen more than one argument saying that we should blame ourselves when a product seller fails to deliver a product, or whenever a product is falsely advertised. That's just letting capitalism run wild and unchecked. I look at people and I wonder where is your self respect, do you not have any?

It really is a massive social experiment, it's way more successful as a social experiment than it ever was as a game. I just wonder what other things they're going to do to try and drive up profit at the expense of their gullible userbase.

[Larsen]

I think enormous amounts of people have quit, so many that they've stopped the "social experiment" and started to try and actually make the game good instead.

I just don't think they can.

[RedStar]

Arquenya, on 22 November 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

Really?

If we had exotic as best tier and legendaries just as nice, exclusive skins and subsequently ANet makes legendaries a lot better and introduces ascended as "tier in between", how many extra tiers do we have then?

...I feel like I keep explaining the same thing over and over again.
Anet didn't make Legendaries better and then introduced a tier of the same level. The first introduced the tier and then upped legendaries to that level.
But even if you got that wrong, in the end there is still only one tier that was added : Ascended.

Maybe you are thinking that the only thing defining a tier is the color/rarity of the item when it's not (by using that definition Vabbian armor is a tier between 15k and FoW). A tier is something that has better stats.

Edited by RedStar, 22 November 2012 - 11:51 PM.

[Arquenya]

RedStar, on 22 November 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

...I feel like I keep explaining the same thing over and over again.
Anet didn't make Legendaries better and then introduced a tier of the same level. The first introduced the tier and then upped legendaries to that level.
But even if you got that wrong, in the end there is still only one tier that was added : Ascended.

Maybe you are thinking that the only thing defining a tier is the color/rarity of the item when it's not (by using that definition Vabbian armor is a tier between 15k and FoW). A tier is something that has better stats.

It just depends on what criteria you define "tier", stats or something else.

It's simply not common practice to define it by how hard it is to acquire. I didn't hear anyone talking about FoW armour as "tier X" and people wouldn't even understand what you were talking about. While for instance in WoW or WAR it's the normal way to indicate your gear "level", which its 100% defined by stats.

So yea, if you want to use your own definition, that's fine. For everyone else it doesn't make sense.
But thanks for the explanation.

[RedStar]

Arquenya, on 23 November 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

snip

I'm actually using the definition of stats : since Ascended item and Legendary items have the same stats, they belong to the same tier.

Edited by RedStar, 23 November 2012 - 09:34 AM.

[Arquenya]

RedStar, on 23 November 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

I'm actually using the definition of stats : since Ascended item and Legendary items have the same stats, they belong to the same tier.

I guess you missed the memo then.
The one which says that legendaries will get a stat boost to make them even better than ascended gear.

[Lordkrall]

Arquenya, on 23 November 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I guess you missed the memo then.
The one which says that legendaries will get a stat boost to make them even better than ascended gear.

I am quite sure that EVERYONE missed that memo so please show us.
They only information we have is that they will get a stat boost to make them as strong as Ascended gear when Ascended weapons are added.

[Evans]

DuskWolf, on 22 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

I'd almost say that we deserve to be abused. Because really, we won't do anything about it when we are. And worse, I've seen more than one argument saying that we should blame ourselves when a product seller fails to deliver a product, or whenever a product is falsely advertised. That's just letting capitalism run wild and unchecked. I look at people and I wonder where is your self respect, do you not have any?

And what do you propose then? Shall we light the torches and dust of the pitchforks to go medieval on their HQ?

Seriously, abused? In what way or form are you being abused other then self inflicted? No one is forcing you to play the game. No one is forcing you to get ascended items.

If I felt abused by a game I play out of my own free will, not even a monthly fee attached, I certainly wouldn't continue playing it.
Your reasoning baffles me.

Where is my self respect? Goodness, shame on me for enjoying a game regardless of the hype that has and is being spread about it. I don't care if they promised me X or Y, if I still enjoy what I'm doing at the end of the day that's all that matters to me.

Should I now go weep bitter tears because you feel cheated? I've seen topics since day one in which people were getting refunds for feeling cheated. You can (or at least could) get a refund, so if you don't (didn't) that's your problem.

Edited by Evans, 23 November 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[Zippor]

In what relation are people throwing out this cognitive dissonance argument around? Care someone explain to me, how the people in here can be labeled with it?

DuskWolf, on 22 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Again you make all of the sense.

See, in another thread I said that Guild Wars 2 is beginning to remind me of a clever social experiment. One of clever manipulation and doublespeak, just to see how easily a group of people can have their perceptions altered through cognitive dissonance. It's got to the point sometimes where I stare on in horror at how effective it is. Sometimes, I look at us, this community, and I ask... why are we such total schmucks?

From all the past posts of yours I got the idea that you dreamed of GW2 to be some utopistic MMO that didn't have any of the features that you despise, while having grand lively cities, impactful combat (so you could feel more feedback) and a great story. And now that you've found that the game isn't exactly all that and even worse since the addition of Ascended gear, you started to argue and criticize against it, effectively reducing your dissonance with it.

Correct me if I'm somehow mistakenly understanding the idea of cognitive dissonance.

[RedStar]

Arquenya, on 23 November 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I guess you missed the memo then.
The one which says that legendaries will get a stat boost to make them even better than ascended gear.

This one ?

Quote

You’ll also see more Legendary items in the future and an update to our existing Legendary weapons. Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power.

Source : https://www.guildwar...-ascended-gear/

Because it never implies that Legendary will be the best tier. It does imply that if a tier above Ascended is introduced, Legendaries wil get updated to be on par with it.
But as of right now, Legendaries will be on par with Ascended weapons when those are introduced in the game.

[Hector]

Zippor, on 23 November 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

In what relation are people throwing out this cognitive dissonance argument around? Care someone explain to me, how the people in here can be labeled with it?



From all the past posts of yours I got the idea that you dreamed of GW2 to be some utopistic MMO that didn't have any of the features that you despise, while having grand lively cities, impactful combat (so you could feel more feedback) and a great story. And now that you've found that the game isn't exactly all that and even worse since the addition of Ascended gear, you started to argue and criticize against it, effectively reducing your dissonance with it.

Correct me if I'm somehow mistakenly understanding the idea of cognitive dissonance.

You just had to look it up:


Cognitive dissonance 
noun Psychology .
anxiety that results from simultaneously holding contradictory or otherwise incompatible attitudes, beliefs, or the like, as when one likes a person but disapproves strongly of one of his or her habits.

Sort of like value voters in America that vote for the guy that is against gay marriage despite the fact that candidate does nothing to help you or your community and in fact passes laws that hurt your district. Yet they re-elect him every election...

What I mean is that most players still have good feelings about Anet and are in denial about the changes they have made (actually, about the entire game itself, before the changes even... ) or worse, say the changes they are making are "needed" or "good" despite being against the changes. That is cognitive dissonance.

Edited by Hector, 23 November 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[Zippor]

Hector, on 23 November 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

What I mean is that most players still have good feelings about Anet and are in denial about the changes they have made (actually, about the entire game itself, before the changes even... ) or worse, say the changes they are making are "needed" or "good" despite being against the changes. That is cognitive dissonance.

Could I have some examples of these cases then? Where somebody in this forum is saying that adding Ascended gear is needed or necessary, while actually being against the changes deep inside themselves? How can you undeniably deduce that someone that supports the gear is actually against the change? Where do you see it from? Their text? I want something that supports your claim, I'm not asking you to prove yourself but I haven't come across with something like that in this forum. But seemingly as you throw that term around, you have seen them.

Edited by Zippor, 23 November 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[Crook]

I didn't expect the game to be fully fleshed out until at least 6 months after launch. Have you guys ever played an MMO at released and we're truly truly satisfied? Hell even Prophecies was far from the best when it got released.

[Hector]

Zippor, on 23 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

Could I have some examples of these cases then? Where somebody in this forum is saying that adding Ascended gear is needed or necessary, while actually being against the changes deep inside themselves? How can you undeniably deduce that someone that supports the gear is actually against the change? Where do you see it from? Their text? I want something that supports your claim, I'm not asking you to prove yourself but I haven't come across with something like that in this forum. But seemingly as you throw that term around, you have seen them.

That is pretty much impossible and I mind as well ask you to prove to me that everyone loves the changes and have no problems with it and deep down the people that seem to disagree with them will come around and also love the changes.

Doesn't prove much, does it.

[Zippor]

Hector, on 23 November 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

That is pretty much impossible and I mind as well ask you to prove to me that everyone loves the changes and have no problems with it and deep down the people that seem to disagree with them will come around and also love the changes.

Doesn't prove much, does it.

I wasn't asking you to prove anything, I was asking for examples about the cognitive dissonance on these forums. I just really don't see how you can throw that term around without pointing it to something specific, or at least some kind of case evidence.

[Var]

Arquenya, on 23 November 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I guess you missed the memo then.
The one which says that legendaries will get a stat boost to make them even better than ascended gear.

As much as I like to keep clear of this discussion for whatever opinion I may have. This has not been said.

Legendary is, by and by, not a tier but it is, all in the same, the pinnacle of all tiers. It will never be outdated but it will never be more powerful than the top tier. It falls into a gray zone but it really isn't a stat based tier all to itself.

With the staggered introduction of Ascended and, likely, new Legendaries, you're likely not going to see (the current) legendaries outstripping exotics in stats for a while yet and forget about them surpassing Ascended in any near term.

[Hector]

Zippor, on 23 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

I wasn't asking you to prove anything, I was asking for examples about the cognitive dissonance on these forums. I just really don't see how you can throw that term around without pointing it to something specific, or at least some kind of case evidence.

Asking me to "cite my work" is asking for proof you know I am not going to spend time doing.

I just don't care anymore. People will believe what they want and will or will not like the game but asking me to go around and find examples of cognitive dissonance, a term based mostly in psychology and basically used as a frame of reference, is not something I am going to spend time doing just to satisfy your demands. It is a waste of time.

I have already moved on from the game and from the official forums so now is the time for me to be gone from this one. If you want to find examples, knock yourself out.

It was a great experiment, Anet, but money wins out.

Edited by Hector, 23 November 2012 - 09:02 PM.

[Zippor]

Hector, on 23 November 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Asking me to "cite my work" is asking for proof you know I am not going to spend time doing.

I just don't care anymore. People will believe what they want and will or will not like the game but asking me to go around and find examples of cognitive dissonance, a term based mostly in psychology and basically used as a frame of reference, is not something I am going to spend time doing just to satisfy your demands. It is a waste of time.

I have already moved on from the game and from the official forums so now is the time for me to be gone from this one. If you want to find examples, knock yourself out.

It was a great experiment, Anet, but money wins out.

But that's just the thing. If you don't bother to give any example of your claims, then your earlier comment (about the presence of cognitive dissonance) is quite frankly, baseless and a waste of time. I have no idea why you see the need to take your time and post baseless comments on this forum if you just 'don't care'.

Edited by Zippor, 23 November 2012 - 09:11 PM.

[Segraine]

Ualtar, on 20 November 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

You are very right, just people don't remember things correctly.  It is like when people talk about the good old days.

Before greens came out, it was very hard to get perfect/max weapons and there was a ton of complaining about it.  People were very mad about how they couldn't get that req 9 sword, or the 15% hammer or whatever.  Superior Vigor runes were silly expensive.  In about 1500 hours of playing GW1 I never had one of those drop for me.

I agree that people don't remember things correctly; although I didn't have problems getting req 10 gear (good enough for me...that is if I remember right ). I used to kill ettins in North Kryta and net 1 Superior Vigor every few runs or so. Was my money machine back in the day : ).

In any case, I found myself bored with Gw2 soon after release. There is little in the way of strategy in my view. Your builds are too rigid and as a healer/support person I felt lost with all the damage. I think the state of Tyrian Assembly is similar to my discontent. People found that the game is dull with the simplictic gameplay and lack of teamwork. The best part of playing a game is being a vital part of a team. With everyone interchangeable and independent there just isn't a feeling of being a part of a team and helping others do their job well. Hate to say it...but the Trinity did a good job providing that feeling of cooperation.

Edited by Segraine, 24 November 2012 - 12:14 AM.

[Manzana]

ScoutMATH, on 20 November 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

did they raised the level cap? did they put strong weapons? did they require people to grind? were the things that you got on 2005 became obsolete?

try again.

Why yes, back in 2005 a 15-20 FDS with a +14% over 50% would have been worth plenty of money.  I sold my 10/10 sundering Drago's flatbow the day before they released 20/20 sundering.  Were the old weapons with 10/10 updated?  Nope.  ERHMAHGERD, CONSPIREHSY.