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Permeating Wrath damage


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#1 Megamoule

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:35 PM

Does anybody have numbers on that?

From what I can see, it triggers both on Passive and Active effects. I'm guessing the Active damage is stronger.

I'd like to know more before delving into that

#2 TheKnox

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

In my testing, it has only procced on the passive VoJ. It triggers a 2 second burn in a pretty large area around you. The damage can be absolutely massive in large groups of enemies. It certainly makes the breakpoint for using the active ability much higher.

When I have the trait slotted, I usually only activate VoJ on single large targets.

#3 Dalden

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

I haven't tried this but;  permeating wrath seems like it would pair up with "renewed justice" very very well.

Especially with a large group of weaker mobs. Renewed justice is great, sometimes I cant hit it fast enough it keeps recharging so fast. Constant AOE blind plus constant AOE burns would avoid a lot of damage and put out a ton of dps.

#4 jpg1

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:41 AM

I think @TheKnox has the right of it. Permeating Wrath gives your Passive Justice a good kick. Although the frequency buff is on the Master Trait, Supreme Justice.

It would have be a very good build angle if Permeating Wrath and Supreme Justice were condensed into one Trait. (Available in Grandmaster)

Same goes to Indomitable Courage and Shielded Mind. (Possible on either Master/ Grandmaster)

#5 TheKnox

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:41 PM

Using any of the 2h weapons with Permeating Wrath can do a lot of damage if you can get in the middle of a big group.  It is also handy with a staff defending keep doors in WvW.

#6 jpg1

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:30 AM

View PostTheKnox, on 21 November 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

Using any of the 2h weapons with Permeating Wrath can do a lot of damage if you can get in the middle of a big group.  It is also handy with a staff defending keep doors in WvW.

That's a pretty good idea with the Staff. Even without PH, guys can't do much if Guardian guarded with a staff. What more with PH. :P

I used it on a 0/10/0/30/30 build build before.(10 Radiance as a throw-away to get Signet Master) I had both Supreme Justice and Permeating Heat while using a GS. Pretty handy if you're just doing trash mobs. But I still feel that some condensing should be done to make it more appealing to spend that much points in Virtues.

The way I see it I could have Absolute Resolution in Master, and a Condensed Permeating Heat in Grand Master. (In an ideal world.)

Edited by jpg1, 22 November 2012 - 01:30 AM.


#7 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:22 AM

Permeating Wrath doesn't actually do any damage.  It just makes your burn AOE instead of single-target.  It's actually worse if you use a scepter or staff since your burn is now PBAOE instead of working at range.

#8 TheKnox

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:09 AM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 01 December 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Permeating Wrath doesn't actually do any damage.  It just makes your burn AOE instead of single-target.  It's actually worse if you use a scepter or staff since your burn is now PBAOE instead of working at range.

Technically, it doesn't do any damage, but there is a massive difference between proccing a 1 second burn on a single mob every 5th hit compared to proccing a  2 second burn on every mob in range on every 5th hit.

In AoE situations (think Orr dynamic events or WvWvW zergs) a single Whirling Wrath will set a TON of mobs on fire for significant damage.

My biggest complaint with the trait is that it makes you feel conflicted about activating your VoJ.

#9 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:56 AM

Dunno where you're getting 2s burn?  It's only 1s still.  The only difference is the burn is applied as a PBAoE.

#10 TheKnox

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:59 PM

Every time I have used it, the burn gets a second tick. It appears to tick immediately on application and again 1 second later.

#11 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

I just tested it.  I'm only getting one tick.  I'm not even sure if it's possible to get two ticks off a single application of passive Justice.  Even with max burn duration boosts you can only get like +65% I think.

#12 TheKnox

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:37 AM

I tested it also, I agree it only ticks once per proc.  I assume that I was just able to stack up burns faster than they were ticking on the AoE golems in the mists.  I usually use the staff for those types of tests.

#13 GSSB Lunaspike

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:14 AM

View PostTheKnox, on 01 December 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Technically, it doesn't do any damage, but there is a massive difference between proccing a 1 second burn on a single mob every 5th hit compared to proccing a  2 second burn on every mob in range on every 5th hit.

In AoE situations (think Orr dynamic events or WvWvW zergs) a single Whirling Wrath will set a TON of mobs on fire for significant damage.

My biggest complaint with the trait is that it makes you feel conflicted about activating your VoJ.

Sounds cool in pve, but in wvw you won't ever get a chance to use it. The damage from the burn is also pretty insignificant.

I could see teleporting in, then using it, but you would be dead and would deal a tiny amount of damage.

Please don't use this in wvw. There are so many better choices for a gm trait that will actually benefit you and your team.

#14 TheKnox

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:30 AM

I switch traits around depending on the situation, and when I'm running around in open space with shouts on my bar,  there aren't many other great traits in the virtues tree.

I generally run in pow/tough/vit gear runed for 40% boon duration. I can pretty safely leap into a large group and drop a WW and a BB, take a few swings or staff attacks and get back out again.

As for the significance of the damage, it will do 1600 damage per proc in a large group of mobs. Considering a staff can proc on every swing, and a greatsword can proc multiple times on a single WW, the damage is not trivial. Especially when you consider that most builds with 30 points in virtues are support oriented.

It is certainly a situational choice in WvW, and I would never take it over absolute resolution or master of consecrations, but my 3rd trait slot is pretty fluid, and PW certainly has a place there at times.

In PvE, it really is incredibly powerful if you have already dropped 30 points in virtues. Because the base damage of burning is pretty high, it is virtually free damage. I wouldn't go that route just to kill things,  as you'd be better off putting your points somewhere else, but it works very well if you are Traited that way for other reasons.

Edit: possibly more importantly in WvW, I use PW + greatsword when I WANT people to focus me. AOE burning plus tons of retaliation damage and wall of reflection in addition to the Greatsword attacks can do a lot to create some space around an area.

Edited by TheKnox, 03 December 2012 - 07:38 AM.


#15 GSSB Lunaspike

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:29 AM

View PostTheKnox, on 03 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

I switch traits around depending on the situation, and when I'm running around in open space with shouts on my bar,  there aren't many other great traits in the virtues tree.

I generally run in pow/tough/vit gear runed for 40% boon duration. I can pretty safely leap into a large group and drop a WW and a BB, take a few swings or staff attacks and get back out again.

As for the significance of the damage, it will do 1600 damage per proc in a large group of mobs. Considering a staff can proc on every swing, and a greatsword can proc multiple times on a single WW, the damage is not trivial. Especially when you consider that most builds with 30 points in virtues are support oriented.

It is certainly a situational choice in WvW, and I would never take it over absolute resolution or master of consecrations, but my 3rd trait slot is pretty fluid, and PW certainly has a place there at times.

In PvE, it really is incredibly powerful if you have already dropped 30 points in virtues. Because the base damage of burning is pretty high, it is virtually free damage. I wouldn't go that route just to kill things,  as you'd be better off putting your points somewhere else, but it works very well if you are Traited that way for other reasons.

Edit: possibly more importantly in WvW, I use PW + greatsword when I WANT people to focus me. AOE burning plus tons of retaliation damage and wall of reflection in addition to the Greatsword attacks can do a lot to create some space around an area.

That's fair enough. When I say zerg though I'm  talking about the ones I usually encounter that are at least 30+

Even with close to 2800 I still die in a few seconds at max. There is just no way I can think of to survive long enough to do any meaningful damage. Add that aoes are limited in the damage they can do by targets, and I just can't justify it.

Then there is the 30 in virtues, which seems too much like a support spec to me. I appreciate support specs, but generally speaking I accomplish more with AH than I would with the 30pt virtues. In either of those you will want 15 into radiance for the refresh on kill. Leaves us with 20 pts to use. You could put the 20 into honor for the 2 handed mastery and writ of exaltation. Seems a waste again though because you won't have the toughness/vitality to survive long at all unless you gear just for toughness/vitality.

I would love to try a build around it, but any build I can think of lacks the survival, or damage, or both in order to even use it.

I use a GS/Staff ad I'm either 0/25/20/20/5 pure dps, or 0/15/30/20/5 for general play. The second is what I use the most.

Edited by GSSB Lunaspike, 03 December 2012 - 08:32 AM.


#16 TheKnox

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:03 AM

http://gw2skills.net...4lwLbNuuk1s YsB

This is similar to what my bar usually looks like in open world WvW. My build is in no way designed for PW, but I have no real need for ground targeted consecrations most of the time, so it gets slotted when I don't need something else.

The way I use this in WvW is to charge into a weaker spot in the other group, WW, BB, keep retaliation up, and once I have everyone's attention, I drop wall of reflection.

The aoe damage plus the burning and retaliation hurts people. Once you drop the wall of reflection, usually you split the group apart significantly. By that point, I'm usually using my heal and running back to my team for cover, but opening a gap like that usually tilt things in our favor.

It certainly isn't a perfect spec for WvW, but it allows me to have a permanent swiftness, do reasonable damage and support, and saves me from having to respec 2 or 3 times a day.

#17 GSSB Lunaspike

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:20 AM

I can't seem to get the damage you are getting.

Stats right now are 2900 attack 47% crit 2202 armor 20,035 health. Using knights amulet.

This has both the 10% damage bonus from zeal and the one from radiance. The damage is really small. Should I switch the amulet over to condition damage?

http://img231.images...8648/gw743i.jpg

Screen shot of me testing it in the mist. Thats also with stacks of might up.

#18 farkov47

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:34 AM

You can't get high condition damage without condition damage boosts...then again if you're just focusing on burning dmg...that can be removed instantly with a condition remova- I think you get the idea how effective this trait is.

It isn't good enough.

#19 GSSB Lunaspike

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:50 AM

View Postfarkov47, on 03 December 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

You can't get high condition damage without condition damage boosts...then again if you're just focusing on burning dmg...that can be removed instantly with a condition remova- I think you get the idea how effective this trait is.

It isn't good enough.

Yeah, that was my initial point about it. Was curious what he was running to get the 1600 procs on it.

I think the initial concept behind this could have been interesting. Guardians only cause one condition though, and that condition doesn't even stack in intensity makes it pretty weak. If you build condition damage everything else we have doesn't do much unless we sacrifice survival. Sometimes it seems like the Guardian was supposed to be two difference classes that got mixed...oh wait. =P

#20 TheKnox

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

320 per person x5 people every time it triggers = 1600

We're not talking about astronomical damage, but adding 1300 damage to every staff swing or around 4000 damage to a WW if you can get all the attacks to hit. (That's 320x5 - the 320 you would normally get)

Adding 1300 damage per staff swing is hardly insignificant. It isn't 20k hundred blades type damage, but it is a noticeable increase with a fairly low opportunity cost.

Again, I wouldn't spec this way just to pick up PW, but if you're already 30 points into the tree, it isn't a terrible choice in some situations.




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