71 replies to this topic

[coglin]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 05 December 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

That's because they were the weakest, most underpowered class in beta.

Based on what fact? They have had damage debuffs since beta. Rifle raw damage was nerfed since beta and the pistol bleeds and what not were nerfed greatly after beta.

How did nerfing both direct damage and conditions damage for the class raise them from the status of
"weakest, most underpowered class in beta."
To one of the best?

The answer is that it didn't. Folks like yourself simply state their opinion (all be it bad ones) as fact and misinform the community. What you lack in skill or understanding, you  scream to the community, and declare to the community as underpowered.

Edited by coglin, 05 December 2012 - 03:37 AM.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

coglin, on 05 December 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Based on what fact? They have had damage debuffs since beta. Rifle raw damage was nerfed since beta and the pistol bleeds and what not were nerfed greatly after beta.

How did nerfing both direct damage and conditions damage for the class raise them from the status of
"weakest, most underpowered class in beta."
To one of the best?

The answer is that it didn't. Folks like yourself simply state their opinion (all be it bad ones) as fact and misinform the community. What you lack in skill or understanding, you  scream to the community, and declare to the community as underpowered.

Nerfs where?  They had crap traits in beta and no viable builds other than CHARGE IN AND SPAM BOMBS HOPE I DONT DIE.

Also you say best class but we're not talking about guardians so ???

[coglin]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 05 December 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Nerfs where?  They had crap traits in beta and no viable builds other than CHARGE IN AND SPAM BOMBS HOPE I DONT DIE.

Also you say best class but we're not talking about guardians so ???

Cut bleeds on pistols from 4s to 2s....that is a pretty hefty nerf for pistol users. Capping stacks on conditions. Coefficient changed on rifle. Decreased.

As well your assessment of build available in beta is clearly based on a flawed memory. By BWE3 the traits were set almost as they are now.

[Perm Shadow Form]

Try playing with 5 Guardians. Faceroll everything.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

coglin, on 05 December 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

Cut bleeds on pistols from 4s to 2s....that is a pretty hefty nerf for pistol users. Capping stacks on conditions. Coefficient changed on rifle. Decreased.

As well your assessment of build available in beta is clearly based on a flawed memory. By BWE3 the traits were set almost as they are now.

I think you're the one with the flawed memory.  We're talking about BWE1/2 here.  Which is where the engineer complaints all originated.

[coglin]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 05 December 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

I think you're the one with the flawed memory.  We're talking about BWE1/2 here?  Which is where the engineer complaints all originated.

We are? sorry I missed the portion in which in a you specified that by betas, we are only allowed to discus BWE 1/2.

Predamage nerf of engineers, folks were exclaiming all over the forums that engineers were underpowered. They did a damage nerf and since, I see more exclaiming eles and rangers are weakest.

Fact is that they cut bleeds on pistols from 4s to 2s....that is a pretty hefty nerf for pistol users. Capping stacks on conditions. Coefficient changed on rifle. Decreased.

Edited by coglin, 05 December 2012 - 06:49 AM.

[Alderaan]

There's a reason everyone is rerolling a warrior.  They see how face roll easy and how much they can bring to a group in different rolls, be it pure melee dps, healing, or ranged.  It's just the way encounters are built that reward warrior/guardians the most.  Having said that, I'd prefer if every profession was brought up to warrior levels rather than see any nerfs.

At the same time, i personally prefer to play with tanky greatsword rangers and bunker ele's.  Healing fields are my friend as a thief.

[Coren]

Warriors are for people who don't want to think. I said it, and I stand by it. I have a warrior and stopped playing it when I hit level 20 ish simply because it's so ridiculously easy to play them.

[M3o5nster]

I really think a lot of these problems come from ANet's core combat design. A lot of the balancing has been done around SPVP, so it's left certain professions feeling underwhelming in PVE. I think they should just restructure the way a lot of the skills/traits work for PVE in a way that lets each profession feel "OP" at what they do. Trying to make every profession able to do everything sounds good on paper, but I don't think the core design supports the idea. This doesn't just have to do with the professions, but the actual encounters as well... There's a reason most shouts LFG for are AC runs. It's because most other encounters are too tedious to be worth doing in other dungeons.

It's a shame that Arah isn't the most popular dungeon, given how much is in there. ANet has to have noticed these problems... If they're not addressed, the PVE scene in this game with continue to struggle. FOTM is a step in the right direction, but now they need to redesign how the old dungeons function and reward players to keep us coming back.

[Jobuu]

i had 3 mesmers in my AC group a few days ago with no real issues - just sayin

[coglin]

M3o5nster, on 05 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

I really think a lot of these problems come from ANet's core combat design. A lot of the balancing has been done around SPVP, so it's left certain professions feeling underwhelming in PVE.

I agree. PvP has ruined PvE in nearly every MMO I ever played. Not saying PvP is bad. Just that when games attempt to meld the two, one always suffers. They definitely need to be 2 independent entities.

[paradiselight]

M3o5nster, on 05 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

I really think a lot of these problems come from ANet's core combat design. A lot of the balancing has been done around SPVP, so it's left certain professions feeling underwhelming in PVE.

I totally agree with that. In fact, I think this is one of the major flaws of the game.

It's strange really, because if you go back to pre-launch, you'll see multiple instances of devs openly talking about how big they want PvP to be. All of the balancing has revolved around PvP and has stayed that way for quite a while after launch. But the last two content patches told us just how much Anet care about PvE and how much Anet doesn't care about PvP and WvW. So we are now stuck with a PvE game balanced for PvP where

• On one end we have warriors facerolling through all the 1-80 content and on the other some classes like mesmer and elementalist struggle.
  
• For dungeon, we have the highest EHP profession dealing damage in the top-end while the lowest EHP profession deals damage in the low to middle spectrum.
  
• Condition damage builds are so subpar and healing power being near useless for at least half the professions.

But if you have any familiarity with GW1, then that's hardly surprising. GW1 has the same issue with some professions being near useless for the harder PvE content.