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Hello Grind, fancy meeting you here...


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#31 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:33 PM

View PostLinfang, on 21 November 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

So I know you can craft the backslot but what about the piece you can buy for about 1350 fractals. I thought that was a back piece also? Whats the difference suppose to be?
New recipe, maybe omni version, uberexpensive+ubergrind

#32 Imaginos

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:41 PM

(sounds of silence parody)
Hello grind, my old friend.
I see you found your way to me again.
because i was having lots of fun,
in my game that was number one.
and the manifesto that was planted in my brain, still remains
but died to the touch of grinding

in forlorn lands I walked alone,
down empty streets of cobble stones
beneath the halo of asuran gate
lfg cries echoed from early to late,
as their lives were stabbed by the enforced grind, till out of their mind.
and the fun died to the grinding...

and in the naked light i saw, ten thousand farmers, maybe more
people grinding without caring how anyone else was faring
people running on that gear treadmill, till they were ill.
because they were loot grinding..

fools I said you do not know.
grinding treadmills like a cancer grows
broken manifesto used to reach you
the grinding now will just defeat you.
but my words like silent raindrops fell
and were muted by the grind for gear....

#33 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

Metal or classical music, singing? ^_^

#34 The_Tree_Branch

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:03 PM

View PostThePinkFrog, on 21 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Wait a sec there....

The manifesto still stands. 99% of the game is doable with rare gear.
The fractal dungeon is the only area where better gear might be mandatory.

If you don't want to grind, just don't do it.

It is totally fine for Arenanet to say: if you want to grind: here's some cool armor that you don't actually need but has better stats and looks great.

They said max stat gear would be easily available. Not that you can play without max stat gear so don't worry about new tiers being added.

#35 Blixcoe

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:26 PM

I like this game and I like gear progression, but I am so poor right now and I actually think that it requires too much time to get ascended. Or too much currency. I want to have that feeling, that it is possible to gain within 1-2 weeks if I play good. The only feeling I am stuffed with is that it will take months, maybe half a year to get these items. I am a hardcore gamer, but I've been slowly playing less and less GW2 each day. Gear progression is a grind, but at least in aion and wow it was fun.

I feel like this when it comes to inventory bags too. 2 gold for a 20-slot one and 10 gold for a 22-slot one? really?
Bags cost that much and it's disgusting. I want to be able to at least have a decent amount of currency in the game without being a mathematics teacher and the best Trading-Post player. Having the best bags should be fairly obtainable after 3 months of lots of playing, likewise with everything else. I feel like I'm malfunctioning in the economy!

I can't get bags, I can't get ascended or legendary, I play A LOT and I still feel poor as * as I can't even get the best bags within the game! Of course all these things are options but it seriously makes me feel malfunctioning in the game. This goes for guild armor, cultural armor and the likes too.

Edited by Blixcoe, 21 November 2012 - 03:32 PM.


#36 Zero_Soulreaver

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

I don't mind gear progression if done right.  This just feels tacked on to shut people up for the moment.

I think the survey is a huge failure.  It does not get at the core problem as you are not allowed to express your details on why you don't like it.  It's just a bland "did you play it? do you like it?" Yes/No  Their is no real getting to the nitty gritty of what is wrong with this game.  Even if you answer with "Other" it's not enough because they ask the right questions to keep you from really digging into what is wrong.

#37 Asudementio

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

View PostDahk, on 21 November 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

So, a Vial of Condensed Mists Essence dropped for me today.  My first thought was "Awesome! I can make an ascended item!"

...until I looked closer at the mat cost.  Potent bloods are almost 25 silver each and I need 250 of them.  And that's before even counting the ectos.

Now, to give you some background, I don't get a ton of playtime.  Between my family and my job, I don't get to put in nearly as many hours as I was able to do back in my college years, but that's why I came to GW2.  I played GW1 back in the day and I was really looking forward to a game where I can jump in and be judged by how well I played, not how long I played.

After hearing ArenaNet's manifesto on the game, I thought that's what I would find.

And it was.

Until this latest patch.  

I know to a lot of other people, this mat cost is nothing, but it's sad that it feels like I can't play MMOs and still be competitive anymore.

You can be competitive the stat increase from using ascended gear is not sufficient to invalidate your skills as a player. Now if your terrible you'll be in for a bad time, but that would occur regardless of the gear your opponent was using.

#38 Kymeric

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:53 PM

View PostThePinkFrog, on 21 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

The manifesto still stands. 99% of the game is doable with rare gear.

So, based on a 1% growth every three months, three years after launch only 12% of the game will be locked away behind a gear grind.  20% when the game is five years old.

Or maybe this was a freak, one-time occurence, and there won't be any more content added that requires ascended gear.  Except they indicated there would be...

View PostAsudementio, on 21 November 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

You can be competitive the stat increase from using ascended gear is not sufficient to invalidate your skills as a player. Now if your terrible you'll be in for a bad time, but that would occur regardless of the gear your opponent was using.

Assuming this is true, isn't there still a problem when a player who has less skill than you is now on equal footing with you because they have better gear?  And even if you can overcome the difference by being more skilled, where does that put you against players who are just as skilled as you are, but in better gear?

"If you're skilled, it won't matter because you can win in spite of stat differences" and "If your a bad player, you'll lose even without stat differences."  You really think that makes sense?

If the stats are completely irrelevant, why are they there?

Edited by Kymeric, 21 November 2012 - 03:54 PM.


#39 Darkobra

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 21 November 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Metal or classical music, singing? ^_^

As a musician that actually killed me to read. It's Simon and Garfunkel.

#40 MandraxUK

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:53 PM

When I saw the mats required to make this gear, the penny finally dropped.  The reason this gear was implemented was to generate more sale of gems.

To farm 250 Potent Bloods is no easy feat.  Particularly as in the process of farming you are going to hit the DR wall.  This means that you either have to take a hell of a long time farming those bloods or buy them from the Trading Post.  Now, to get the money for 250 blood at 25s a pop is also going to take an awful long time.  Therefore Arenanet will be expecting an increase in gem sales to at least part-fund these items.

If this initiative goes as well as expected for Arenanet, you can almost guarantee that there will be more tiers of gear in future to help generate more gem sales and thus add more funds to their coffers when cash shop sales have dried up again.

I believe this is the very reason why they are not going to change their mind on this issue.  It's a cash grab.

Edited by MandraxUK, 21 November 2012 - 04:56 PM.


#41 Linfang

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:11 PM

View PostMandraxUK, on 21 November 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

When I saw the mats required to make this gear, the penny finally dropped.  The reason this gear was implemented was to generate more sale of gems.

To farm 250 Potent Bloods is no easy feat.  Particularly as in the process of farming you are going to hit the DR wall.  This means that you either have to take a hell of a long time farming those bloods or buy them from the Trading Post.  Now, to get the money for 250 blood at 25s a pop is also going to take an awful long time.  Therefore Arenanet will be expecting an increase in gem sales to at least part-fund these items.

If this initiative goes as well as expected for Arenanet, you can almost guarantee that there will be more tiers of gear in future to help generate more gem sales and thus add more funds to their coffers when cash shop sales have dried up again.

I believe this is the very reason why they are not going to change their mind on this issue.  It's a cash grab.

As true as it may seem, also consider the legit and non legit options to getting gold in game. This could turn around and bite them in the ass if people who continue to grow dubious of Anets practices yet still want to play the game decide to just take the risk and buy gold from a gold seller instead.

Edited by Linfang, 21 November 2012 - 05:11 PM.


#42 Korra

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:14 PM

View PostImaginos, on 21 November 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

(sounds of silence parody)
Hello grind, my old friend.
I see you found your way to me again.
because i was having lots of fun,
in my game that was number one.
and the manifesto that was planted in my brain, still remains
but died to the touch of grinding

in forlorn lands I walked alone,
down empty streets of cobble stones
beneath the halo of asuran gate
lfg cries echoed from early to late,
as their lives were stabbed by the enforced grind, till out of their mind.
and the fun died to the grinding...

and in the naked light i saw, ten thousand farmers, maybe more
people grinding without caring how anyone else was faring
people running on that gear treadmill, till they were ill.
because they were loot grinding..

fools I said you do not know.
grinding treadmills like a cancer grows
broken manifesto used to reach you
the grinding now will just defeat you.
but my words like silent raindrops fell
and were muted by the grind for gear....

Genuine

View PostDarkobra, on 21 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

As a musician that actually killed me to read. It's Simon and Garfunkel.

I died a lil inside too.

Edited by Korra, 21 November 2012 - 05:15 PM.


#43 stefanplc

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

What I'm worried about is that sure, I'll go ahead and do this and I'll get all the ascendant gear, and then i'll have like 2 months where I'll be able to enjoy having the best gear and then BAM, new expansion, new level cap, new gear to grind again..

#44 Balan Makki

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:17 PM

View PostScoutMATH, on 21 November 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

i deleted 2 vial of condensed mists essence because i didn't give a F.

try deleting your characters next. A rather satisfying feeling of relief when you stop playing the lie.

#45 Runkleford

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

I'm like a few others here. I'll keep playing the game until I hit the wall where I can no longer do new content if they add Agony to future content. I'm sure as hell not going to grind for Ascendent gear in it's current state.

#46 Zhaitan

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:29 PM

View PostImaginos, on 21 November 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

(sounds of silence parody)
Hello grind, my old friend.
I see you found your way to me again.
because i was having lots of fun,
.........
broken manifesto used to reach you
the grinding now will just defeat you.
but my words like silent raindrops fell
and were muted by the grind for gear....

You've made Paul Simon very proud. :)

What beats me tho, in a game with a monthly sub, gear grind makes quite sense as more powerful gear is the hook for you to stay "at it". But, what is the point of having gear grind in a "free to play" game without linking it somehow to cash shop unless I completely missed cash shop link w/ new update somehow?

It simply does not make sense. Its stupid.

Edited by Zhaitan, 21 November 2012 - 06:34 PM.


#47 Imaginos

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

View PostDarkobra, on 21 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

As a musician that actually killed me to read. It's Simon and Garfunkel.

You're welcome :) I'll be looting your corpse and selling your lute

View PostKorra, on 21 November 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

Genuine
I died a lil inside too.

/snicker

#48 Asudementio

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:53 PM

View PostKymeric, on 21 November 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

So, based on a 1% growth every three months, three years after launch only 12% of the game will be locked away behind a gear grind.  20% when the game is five years old.

Or maybe this was a freak, one-time occurence, and there won't be any more content added that requires ascended gear.  Except they indicated there would be...



Assuming this is true, isn't there still a problem when a player who has less skill than you is now on equal footing with you because they have better gear?  And even if you can overcome the difference by being more skilled, where does that put you against players who are just as skilled as you are, but in better gear?

"If you're skilled, it won't matter because you can win in spite of stat differences" and "If your a bad player, you'll lose even without stat differences."  You really think that makes sense?

If the stats are completely irrelevant, why are they there?

I'm not saying the stats are irrelevant, they obviously are- i just think people are thinking they will be at a severe disadvantage if they don't have the ascended ring and back; a position that i don't see the information supporting it.

#49 Kymeric

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

View PostAsudementio, on 21 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

I'm not saying the stats are irrelevant, they obviously are- i just think people are thinking they will be at a severe disadvantage if they don't have the ascended ring and back; a position that i don't see the information supporting it.

Even a mild disadvantage sucks for most people.  It taints things a little, like a bit of gristle in your chicken soup.  It may not ruin the soup, but it definitely makes it a little less special to know that other people always have an edge.

And many are afraid the soup will get more and more gristle.  After all, the cooks explained it was necessary to add a little in the first place.

Okay, my metaphor isn't great..

#50 Vahkris

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:17 PM

View PostKymeric, on 21 November 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

If the stats are completely irrelevant, why are they there?

...because game programmers seem to have trouble building an engine that works off of the raw emotions of humans, the tears of rage, and the essence of penis envy instead of those fiddly little numbers that computers like to use. (Who knew?)

Edited by Vahkris, 21 November 2012 - 07:17 PM.


#51 IndoX

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

The ascended items have a much broader effect on the game as well. Crafting, in general, will also be more expensive if you do it to level up your alts (as I do).

Luckily I have a ton of crafting mats left over so I don't have to worry about this. But many other people may be crafting for the first time.

#52 Baldur The Bold

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

I wouldnt really care so much if it didnt affect playing the dungeon more. If there isnt a way to do the dungeon after lvl10+(or whatever it is) then I cant see myself playing it anymore, and I think most people will feel this way.

This will get to the point where to get into the dungeon you will need to show the ascended inscripted item ala UW stones. GG

#53 Khlaw

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:53 PM

I have full exotics on both character that I actually play and I do just fine.  I really don't see the need for ascended items (exct for maybe in 10+ Fractals, but if you're there it's for ascended items anyhow so...)

Will there be a group of players who will shun me because I have no ascended items?  Probably.  But those are the kind of folks I tend to avoid anyhow.  They're looking for something out of the game that I am not, and good for them.  Let them play the way they want, and let ANET give them the content they are looking for.

As of now, there is nothing in ascended items that in any way threatens me as a casual+ player.  If the ascended items are hard to obtain and require a grind, then so much the better.  It just means they'lre more likely to be limited to the hardcore crowd, and less likely to impact my gaming experience in any way.

If not having ascended items starts to negatively impact my ability to do anything other than the most hardcore content, then there will be an issue.

#54 Red_Falcon

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:56 PM

I got 6 vials up to lvl 8 and a tonload of powerful blood from harpies in the dungeon with golems (but I sold it, can't say no to lots of gold).

As a min-maxer I know the stats difference doesn't matter, what could instead turn tides is defense from Ascended armor and damage range from Ascended weapons.
Those are much, much bigger factor in the damage formulas than 70 to all stats could even remotely be, so I hope Ascended weps/armors won't have increased def and dmg or at least will have easier means to be obtained.

While you're not going to feel a difference with +70 to your stats, you WILL with +damage range and +defense in percentage increase of 8%.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 21 November 2012 - 07:57 PM.


#55 Cosian

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:08 PM

It's gear stat progression that requires grinding plain and simple.  I don't care if its a 1% adder ... 4% ... or whatever.  It is against everything they promised ... and for what?  The reality is people may spend real life cash to get legendary .... but they will be far more apt to spend RL cash to get top tier stats.  You got greedy ANET and I hope it bites you in the tush ...

After blogging about this game, pushing it on everyone I know, spending a ton of cash on it, I again find myself looking at the to be release game schedule.  

All I got to say is shame on you ANET.

Edited by Cosian, 21 November 2012 - 08:09 PM.


#56 BrotatoSoup

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:21 PM

When I saw the recipe for the ascended back piece, I immediately decided that it wasn't worth my time and effort.

I'm an altoholic and I play this game casually. I enjoy leveling and gearing up different characters for dungeons and WvW. As it stands, I should be able to deck out two characters in full exotics with the cost of a single ascended back piece. The decision to pick one over the other couldn't be any easier.

Ascended gear is not for everyone. Know what you're capable of and learn to adapt.

#57 Kymeric

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:22 PM

View PostVahkris, on 21 November 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

...because game programmers seem to have trouble building an engine that works off of the raw emotions of humans, the tears of rage, and the essence of penis envy instead of those fiddly little numbers that computers like to use. (Who knew?)

You say tomato, I say +stats...

One internet cookie for a cute post, but doesn't really address that the stats are either significant or there's no reason to have them.

#58 Verelia

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:31 PM

I'll stick to exploring :P

I'm already playing the game less, but I have no real interest in running dungeons over and over again or farming 100s of hours for gold or items. That's what I despise in MMOs, I guess it was just naive to think that GW 2 wouldn't go the same way.

#59 BnJ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:29 PM

The 3 biggest selling points for this game for me were:

1. No grind
Up until the last patch, I didn't find the game too grindy at all really.  I mean chasing a few dungeons skins got a bit tedious, but it was a cosmetic grind. I could deal with that.  Now we have this ascended items rubbish...

2. No gear treadmill
Max stat items were supposed to be easy to obtain.  So I worked hard to deck out my main character in full exotics, which was actually no easy feat.  Only to hear a few months later, guess what?  There's another tier and it's a HUGE GRINDFEST!  Enjoy!

3. No trinity
Can I expect this to get reverted in an upcoming patch too?  It honestly wouldn't surprise me at this point.

#60 Hector

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:32 AM

View PostDarkobra, on 21 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

As a musician that actually killed me to read. It's Simon and Garfunkel.
As a musician I know that the metal band Nevermore covered the sound of silence.

View PostCosian, on 21 November 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

It's gear stat progression that requires grinding plain and simple.  I don't care if its a 1% adder ... 4% ... or whatever.  It is against everything they promised ... and for what?  The reality is people may spend real life cash to get legendary .... but they will be far more apt to spend RL cash to get top tier stats.  You got greedy ANET and I hope it bites you in the tush ...

After blogging about this game, pushing it on everyone I know, spending a ton of cash on it, I again find myself looking at the to be release game schedule.  

All I got to say is shame on you ANET.
Heh. I am now in the same position.




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