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Chris Whiteside on the Lost Shores and Beyond

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#1 davadude

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:44 PM

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Chris Whiteside on the Lost Shores and Beyond


Arenanet's Chris Whiteside just posted an official blog entry outlining the current aim for Guild Wars 2, and what is in store for the future.  The blog entry consists of a big thank you to all the players, the future plans, and more!

Quote

Here’s a general rundown of what we are working towards over the upcoming months:

-Revamping all of our existing dungeons (Story and Explorable versions) through rebalance and overhauled encounters

-Adding new dungeons to the Fractal of the Mists.

-Adding more variation to creatures, enhancing our open world scaling system, as well as evolving many events and experiences across Tyria.

-Fixing and improving existing content throughout the game, and better tying it into the overall sense of player progression within Guild Wars 2.

-Building on the Southsun Cove’s persistent content.

-Adding new Guild content and Guild progression features.

-Continuing to evolve PvP into an E-sport as outlined here.

-Adding brand new content to World vs. World as well as adding new reward progression.

-Continuing to build upon the story and adventures of Guild Wars 2.

Edited by davadude, 21 November 2012 - 08:46 PM.


#2 NuclearDonut

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

I think he was a little too optimistic about the Lost Shores feedback. I understand that from a PR perspective, you have to make it look like a success, but 90% of the players who were giving feedback on the forums, in-game, through videos, etc. were giving mostly negative feedback. The one time events were handled poorly, the map was boring, the event story was a mess, and not many people want the new gear treadmill. A simple acknowledgement of these issues would have been nice, what he says is really vague:[color=#000000][font=CronosPro, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=4]"[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=CronosPro, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=4]We’ve seen people saying that they really liked the principle of using events to unveil new content, but we need to tighten up the methods by which they are deployed"[/size][/font][/color]

#3 davadude

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:55 PM

[quote name='NuclearDonut' timestamp='1353531022' post='2091486']
I think he was a little too optimistic about the Lost Shores feedback. I understand that from a PR perspective, you have to make it look like a success, but 90% of the players who were giving feedback on the forums, in-game, through videos, etc. were giving mostly negative feedback. The one time events were handled poorly, the map was boring, the event story was a mess, and not many people want the new gear treadmill. A simple acknowledgement of these issues would have been nice, what he says is really vague:[color=#000000][font=CronosPro, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]"[/font][/color][color=#000000][font=CronosPro, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]We’ve seen people saying that they really liked the principle of using events to unveil new content, but we need to tighten up the methods by which they are deployed"[/font][/color]
[/quote]

May be so, but look at it from the other side... people who were enjoying the event were not on forums/social media/surveys now, were they?
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#4 shanaeri rynale

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:56 PM

Parts of it does seem like head in the sand, la la la I can't hear you and what "overall sense of progression" entails. BUt it's good to see new guild features and dungeon revamps are on the list

#5 NuclearDonut

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:01 PM

[quote name='davadude' timestamp='1353531309' post='2091493']
May be so, but look at it from the other side... people who were enjoying the event were not on forums/social media/surveys now, were they?
[/quote]
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sure a ton of people did enjoy the event. I personally disliked the event but I absolutely loved the Fractals, so I gave great reviews in the feedback survey. However, I still think the majority disliked many things about the event.I don't have any numbers or percentages, but I saw many complaints actually in-game from all the players, not just people who ran to the forums to QQ. Most of my guild was pretty disappointed in general (with the exception of the amazing FotM dungeon,) and they're normally pretty logical/rational about things that other people would become radical about.

#6 Arkham Creed

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:02 PM

If they don’t figure out a way to make these events actually playable very soon I foresee this “[color=black][font=Arial","sans-serif]principle of using events to unveil new content” costing them more players than it attracts. I'm already thinking about abandoning the game after that exotic loot middle finger they gave to everyone unable to participate in Lost Shores, or who were unaware of such rewards and unwilling to deal with the server/client cluster **** that the event was creating.[/font][/color]

Edited by Arkham Creed, 21 November 2012 - 09:03 PM.


#7 Cutthroat

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

"Adding new Guild content and Guild progression features" should be on top of the list imo. Btw, where's guesting?!

#8 davadude

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:12 PM

[quote name='NuclearDonut' timestamp='1353531673' post='2091503']
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sure a ton of people did enjoy the event. I personally disliked the event but I absolutely loved the Fractals, so I gave great reviews in the feedback survey. However, I still think the majority disliked many things about the event.I don't have any numbers or percentages, but I saw many complaints actually in-game from all the players, not just people who ran to the forums to QQ. Most of my guild was pretty disappointed in general (with the exception of the amazing FotM dungeon,) and they're normally pretty logical/rational about things that other people would become radical about.
[/quote]

Hey, I agree, I also despised it, but I'm just trying to put things into perspective here.  :)
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#9 Craywulf

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

I think they are careful not to come off too optimistic. Lost Shores was a success, despite the loud and vocal minority of complaints. ArenaNet did acknowledge in article there were problems they need to fix, but they aren't going dwell on it like many posters here do.

I think they need to keep their agendas balanced, such as fixing problems as much as adding new content. Lost Shores added  a lot more than anyone expected and it was totally free, but they still need to fix the broken (original) events and clean up the botting.

#10 MazingerZ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:21 PM

Not a word on Ascended.  Guess it's going to be glossed over, but supported... like a Hilton heir or something.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#11 Craywulf

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:31 PM

[quote name='MazingerZ' timestamp='1353532893' post='2091533']
Not a word on Ascended.  Guess it's going to be glossed over, but supported... like a Hilton heir or something.
[/quote]You say it as if Ascended gear is broken. You may not like it...but you can't say it's not working as intended. ArenaNet obviously has no issues with their own decision to add infusion-mechanic.

#12 NuclearDonut

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:35 PM

[quote name='Craywulf' timestamp='1353533477' post='2091543']
You say it as if Ascended gear is broken. You may not like it...but you can't say it's not working as intended. ArenaNet obviously has no issues with their own decision to add infusion-mechanic.
[/quote]
He wasn't referring to it being broken, he was referring to the shit storm it caused.

#13 Craywulf

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:37 PM

[quote name='NuclearDonut' timestamp='1353533728' post='2091549']
He wasn't referring to it being broken, he was referring to the shit storm it caused.
[/quote]So what is ArenaNet to do...coddle a few spoiled gamers because they can't handle progression?

#14 MazingerZ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:39 PM

[quote name='NuclearDonut' timestamp='1353533728' post='2091549']
He wasn't referring to it being broken, he was referring to the shit storm it caused.
[/quote]

Pretty much that.  Again, it's like a politician covering up for their party-crazy, drug-crazy 20-odd year old child that pretty much a public spectacle that everyone else knows has issues

"I might disapprove.  I might wonder where I went wrong.  But they're my baby.  I just have to ignore it and hope for the best."

Many things have gone awry from such head-in-the-sand policies.  And all it does is convince the people upset that this isn't the game for them.
It's okay to enjoy crap if you're willing to admit it's crap.
Every patch is like ArenaNet walking out onto the stage of the International Don't Kitten Up Championship, and then proceeding to shiv itself in the stomach 30 times while screaming "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!"

#15 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:48 PM

lololol Whatever you say ArenaNet. I've already lost complete faith in you guys after releasing a half-finished bland game with barely any guild features, no activities(keg brawl? lolll!!), grind gameplay, horrible character progression, and barely any distinctive loot. They seriously should have released the game "when it's done."

#16 BnJ

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:57 PM

[quote name='Craywulf' timestamp='1353533878' post='2091553']
So what is ArenaNet to do...coddle a few spoiled gamers because they can't handle progression?
[/quote]

I'd say it has a lot to do with the game being marketed as not having this crap, yet a few months later here we are.

I'm pretty sure I read a few times there would only be horizontal progression, definitely no chasing of higher stat gear.

#17 ToySoldier

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:16 AM

"Adding more variation to creatures, [b]enhancing our open world scaling system[/b], as well as evolving many events and experiences across Tyria."

Enhancing is probably a nerf of some sort.  The list of possibilities on my mind include both "fine, ok" and "ugh" parts.  :P My imagination is never as good as the game companies though as they often surprise me.  Lol time will tell.

#18 Achromatis

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:10 AM

View PostNuclearDonut, on 21 November 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

I think he was a little too optimistic about the Lost Shores feedback. I understand that from a PR perspective, you have to make it look like a success, but 90% of the players who were giving feedback on the forums, in-game, through videos, etc. were giving mostly negative feedback. The one time events were handled poorly, the map was boring, the event story was a mess, and not many people want the new gear treadmill. A simple acknowledgement of these issues would have been nice, what he says is really vague:"We’ve seen people saying that they really liked the principle of using events to unveil new content, but we need to tighten up the methods by which they are deployed"

Well, 90% is quite the stretch. Even if you only consider that the people happy with the last update wouldnt have as much of a reason to be vocal about it. Aside from the technical issues, the only problem with the event itself was the lack of direction. As for Ascended gear and tiers, Im still waiting to see what the impact is once theyre finished implementing it.

Heres something else btw:

Chris Whiteside said:

Hi All,
Thanks for your feedback we really appreciate it. I would like to take the opportunity to answer your questions in an AMA on Reddit on Monday 26th (12pm PST- More details to follow) to talk about recent updates to the game and our philosophy for Guild Wars 2 moving forward.
Please keep in mind that there we are about to begin the Thanksgiving holiday in the US and are out of the office (and likely in game) until Monday. Happy Holidays everyone!
Chris

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post827481

Edited by Achromatis, 22 November 2012 - 04:13 AM.


#19 KrakenAZ

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:36 AM

[quote name='Craywulf' timestamp='1353533878' post='2091553']
So what is ArenaNet to do...coddle a few spoiled gamers because they can't handle progression?
[/quote]

Or, you know, maybe stick to the ideals they espoused in their so-called "manifesto" and several developer interviews during development that stressed there would be no gear progression after exotics.

#20 Lordkrall

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:58 AM

[quote name='KrakenAZ' timestamp='1353559010' post='2092000']
Or, you know, maybe stick to the ideals they espoused in their so-called "manifesto" and several developer interviews during development that stressed there would be [b]no gear[/b] [s]progression[/s] [b]after exotics.[/b]
[/quote]

They never said that.
Exotics was after all not even revealed until rather soon before release so why would they talk about it during the manifesto (which btw is not the same as the finished product. For a good reference look at USSR) nor the development phase.

#21 phani_kaushik

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:05 AM

[quote name='Lordkrall' timestamp='1353567494' post='2092104']
They never said that.
Exotics was after all not even revealed until rather soon before release so why would they talk about it during the manifesto (which btw is not the same as the finished product. For a good reference look at USSR) nor the development phase.
[/quote]

Yes they never said that, as a matter of fact. But they did say there'll be no grind for better gear, except for cosmetics. Now grinding dungeon tokens for respective armor set, doesn't really make any difference since its just exotic gear with cosmetic differences. The problem with Ascended gear as of now is they require dungeon tokens, AND vary in stats from Exotic gear. Now if they release some craftable recipes for these ascended gear, without grinding tokens but purely mats which could also be bought over TP, playerbase wouldn't say a word on it again, I assure you. Until Anet does this, this outrage would be present. As of now, exotics are very much craftable with mats bought over TP or farmed in the world. If Ascended gear follows this in future updates, expect players to be happy, if not, there'll be ragequits for sure.

#22 Leiard

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:43 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 22 November 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

They never said that.
Exotics was after all not even revealed until rather soon before release so why would they talk about it during the manifesto (which btw is not the same as the finished product. For a good reference look at USSR) nor the development phase.

Why is the difference between "Exotic" weapons and "Legendary" weapons purely cosmetic then?  Everybody assumed this will be similar with armor, ie there will be no stat bonus for what appears to be higher tier items, after "Exotics".

This is also in line with their manifesto, where they proclaimed you will not have to gear grind and such...

#23 Coren

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostCraywulf, on 21 November 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

So what is ArenaNet to do...coddle a few spoiled gamers because they can't handle progression?

Well.considering ANet marketed their game for both casuals (rares and exotics) and hardcore (legendaries) from the beginning, they bring out something new and contrary to what they initially said.

As long as the game is playable with exotics and not agony protection, I'm cool with it.

View Postphani_kaushik, on 22 November 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:



Yes they never said that, as a matter of fact. But they did say there'll be no grind for better gear, except for cosmetics. Now grinding dungeon tokens for respective armor set, doesn't really make any difference since its just exotic gear with cosmetic differences. The problem with Ascended gear as of now is they require dungeon tokens, AND vary in stats from Exotic gear. Now if they release some craftable recipes for these ascended gear, without grinding tokens but purely mats which could also be bought over TP, playerbase wouldn't say a word on it again, I assure you. Until Anet does this, this outrage would be present. As of now, exotics are very much craftable with mats bought over TP or farmed in the world. If Ascended gear follows this in future updates, expect players to be happy, if not, there'll be ragequits for sure.

Quoted for truth. I grinded dungeon tokens for weapons and armor because I chose to do it, but I also crafted half my mesmer alt's armor and jewels. Crafting, so far, is the best way for casuals to get their top gear, and until ANet allows ascended items to be crafted, there will be problems.

#24 Vexies

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:55 PM

Quote

I grinded dungeon tokens for weapons and armor because I chose to do it, but I also crafted half my mesmer alt's armor and jewels. Crafting, so far, is the best way for casuals to get their top gear, and until ANet allows ascended items to be crafted, there will be problems.

I would totaly agree with this and I very much hope they see the wisdom in this and not by adding crafting that takes 400 of this or that blah blah or it will be pointless but actual reasonable crafting patterns. I personally have no problem with the shift but this idea holds merit.

This would go along way to alieviatge the unhappy players and diversify the ways to get assension gear without impacting the improtance of the dungeon going forward.  Supporting crafting and moving more away from random mechanics would be the healthiest way to go for the game moving forward.

#25 Arewn

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:58 PM

You don't have to grind gear, periode. You're perfectly viable to play any part of the game (fractals included) in greens that you can get for a few silver, or easily find just from playing. Even getting exotics doesn't require that much investment.
It's only when you're aiming for something special (but unrequired) that you run into any grind.
Want that special armor skin from the dungeon? then you might find yourself in a grind.
Want to do progression in the farctals, beyond just experiencing the content? then you might find yourself in a grind.
But, ascended gear included, they have stuck to the manifesto in that you do not have to grind to experience what the game has to offer.

And people need to learn what an actually gear treadmil is....


Hopefully "overhauled encounters" means new Zhaitan fight ~.~ nice to see them working on dungeon encounters regardless though. And more creature variation will be appreciated ^^

Edited by Arewn, 22 November 2012 - 05:00 PM.


#26 Shiren

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

View PostCraywulf, on 21 November 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

I think they are careful not to come off too optimistic. Lost Shores was a success, despite the loud and vocal minority of complaints. ArenaNet did acknowledge in article there were problems they need to fix, but they aren't going dwell on it like many posters here do.

I think they need to keep their agendas balanced, such as fixing problems as much as adding new content. Lost Shores added  a lot more than anyone expected and it was totally free, but they still need to fix the broken (original) events and clean up the botting.

You have got to be trolling or your definition of success is incredibly generous. Even Massively, who have a readship made up of primarily GW2 fanboys, criticised the event and felt embaressed for the game as a result of it. It was not a success, it went over horribly. They are now doing research to reconsider whether they ever want to do one time events again based on how unhappy so many people were. The lag was unbearable, it was embaressing for this all to happen to the invited players when trialing the game, the scavenger hunt bugged out on almost every server within 10 minutes for over 24 hours and a very large number of people were disconnected before receiving their significant reward. The island is now a husk with little to no content worth playing. This event was not a success, it was made of some good pieces but the overall execution and experience of the majority of it was poor.

ArenaNet devs are in PR damage control and the lead CM is showing outright contempt for the userbase he is supposed to represent.

#27 Leiard

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

View PostArewn, on 22 November 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

You don't have to grind gear, periode. You're perfectly viable to play any part of the game (fractals included) in greens that you can get for a few silver, or easily find just from playing. Even getting exotics doesn't require that much investment.
It's only when you're aiming for something special (but unrequired) that you run into any grind.
Want that special armor skin from the dungeon? then you might find yourself in a grind.
Want to do progression in the farctals, beyond just experiencing the content? then you might find yourself in a grind.
But, ascended gear included, they have stuck to the manifesto in that you do not have to grind to experience what the game has to offer.

And people need to learn what an actually gear treadmil is....


Hopefully "overhauled encounters" means new Zhaitan fight ~.~ nice to see them working on dungeon encounters regardless though. And more creature variation will be appreciated ^^

Groups are already asking for Exotics to play the new dungeon content.  With higher stats on the Ascended armor, what's next?

If Ascended had the same stats as Exotic armor, then I might agree with you.  

I predict, with future dungeons you will have groups looking for members with Ascended armor only (Exotics will not be good enough then), to get who knows what the next "bridging" armor might be or perhaps higher stats Ascended.

#28 Arewn

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:34 PM

View PostLeiard, on 22 November 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Groups are already asking for Exotics to play the new dungeon content.  With higher stats on the Ascended armor, what's next?

If Ascended had the same stats as Exotic armor, then I might agree with you.  

I predict, with future dungeons you will have groups looking for members with Ascended armor only (Exotics will not be good enough then), to get who knows what the next "bridging" armor might be or perhaps higher stats Ascended.
That's not so much a game problem as it is a player problem. A very common problem with players across the genre, it's your run of the mill discrimination.
Make your own groups, play with friends.

#29 l Dei l

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:54 AM

If some fractal maps and a few events to southshore is all the real content that's gonna be added in the next few months, then I can see why they needed to add so much grind to keep people playing and interested. Too bad it was gear grind...

#30 Lordkrall

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:15 AM

View Postl Dei l, on 23 November 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

If some fractal maps and a few events to southshore is all the real content that's gonna be added in the next few months, then I can see why they needed to add so much grind to keep people playing and interested. Too bad it was gear grind...

I suppose you missed that we will have Wintersday coming in December, which probably is close to/equal to/bigger than the Shadow of the Mad King update.

Just because they don't say exactly what they are planning on adding does not mean they are not planning on adding stuff.





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