81 replies to this topic

[Galandil]

https://www.guildwar...res-and-beyond/

Not a single * was given about the uproar against Ascended items.

And, to top it with a very delicoius and nice cherry, in this thread:

https://forum-en.gui...ores-and-Beyond

the post by the head of global community is both appalling and outrageous. In syntesis, it states "stop complaining about ascended items and gtfo".

To me, this is simply patethic.

Edit: Lol sorry, I thought I was on Tyrian Assembly section, could a mod move it there? Thank you.

Edited by Galandil, 21 November 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[GrandmaFunk]

Galandil, on 21 November 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

"stop complaining about ascended items and gtfo".

seems reasonable to me.

time to move on, one way or another.

[Al Shamari]

It's just a Public Relations spin. No big news here. As some people have mentioned in the thread you linked to, just because they're not publicly making comments about it doesn't mean it went ignored. They simply like to share positive aspects.

I am on the other hand extremely glad to see that they are working on overhauling dungeons, adding more guild features and even things like a reward progression system to WvW. Those are all pressing issues that I'm glad to hear are being worked on.

[Craywulf]

As I stated in the other thread, Ascended items are working as intended, the problem lies within the spoiled gamers. There's nothing for ArenaNet to address.

[NuclearDonut]

Craywulf, on 21 November 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

As I stated in the other thread, Ascended items are working as intended, the problem lies within the spoiled gamers. There's nothing for ArenaNet to address.

They're not really spoiled, they make a valid point. I don't like the new gear treadmill, but I got over it and moved on because I love the GW series and I love ANet enough to overlook it. Other people aren't as forgiving as me, and they make a solid argument. You gotta take every side into perspective before calling someone spoiled.

[Galandil]

Al Shamari, on 21 November 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

It's just a Public Relations spin. No big news here. As some people have mentioned in the thread you linked to, just because they're not publicly making comments about it doesn't mean it went ignored. They simply like to share positive aspects.

The worst part for me wasn't the usual and useless blahblah of the blog post, but the intervention of the Head of Global Community. It's so unprofessional on so many levels that it seems like a post made a newbie moderator of any forum with 10 users tops.

He tells clearly not to talk about treadmill problems in that thread, asking to post about that aspect in the appropriate thread... which has been closed since more than a day ago.

It's astonishing and appalling the level of denial in which anet finds itself now.

Meanwhile, not a single word about bugs fixing. Which one would think should be the top priority for the devs. But one would be utterly wrong.

Craywulf, on 21 November 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

As I stated in the other thread, Ascended items are working as intended, the problem lies within the spoiled gamers. There's nothing for ArenaNet to address.

It's astonishing, too, that there're still such retarded statement on the forums. The reasons are all well explained everywhere concering why ascended items are a mistake. If you don't get them, it's a problem of comprehension of yours.

The spoiled brats are the locusts who QQ about gear progression ala WoW, who shouldn't have bought GW2 in the first place.

Edited by Galandil, 21 November 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[Craywulf]

NuclearDonut, on 21 November 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

They're not really spoiled, they make a valid point. I don't like the new gear treadmill, but I got over it and moved on because I love the GW series and I love ANet enough to overlook it. Other people aren't as forgiving as me, and they make a solid argument. You gotta take every side into perspective before calling someone spoiled.

Okay so calling people spoiled isn't going win me any arguments, but I will say this. This Infusion mechanic is not a "gear treadmill" that the complainers are making it out to be. Agony is not a new thing, it's directly from GW1 so it's not like they suddenly turned around and said lets add a treadmill.

[Galandil]

Craywulf, on 21 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Okay so calling people spoiled isn't going win me any arguments, but I will say this. This Infusion mechanic is not a "gear treadmill" that the complainers are making it out to be. Agony is not a new thing, it's directly from GW1 so it's not like they suddenly turned around and said lets add a treadmill.

It seems that the program "No child left behind" didn't work very well, did it?

Edited by Galandil, 21 November 2012 - 09:54 PM.

[NuclearDonut]

Craywulf, on 21 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Okay so calling people spoiled isn't going win me any arguments, but I will say this. This Infusion mechanic is not a "gear treadmill" that the complainers are making it out to be. Agony is not a new thing, it's directly from GW1 so it's not like they suddenly turned around and said lets add a treadmill.

I don't think anyone has a problem with the infusion part of Ascended items, there are 3 common complaints about these new items.
1) They have better stats than Exotics, something that was expected to never happen. It kind of went against ANet's entire philosophy of this game.
2) It requires a crazy amount of grind. Many many many dungeons runs are needed to get only the accessories, who knows how hard it is gonna be to get the armor once they implement it?
3)ANet has refused to say that Ascended will be the last tier of gear, from which one can predict that a new tier will be introduced in the future. By definition, a gear treadmill.

I find all of these concerns very valid. I also agree with the OP that Martin Kerstein has been pretty unprofessional in general when responding to these concerns. Like I said, I gave in a while ago because I just want to enjoy the game, so I'll eventually succumb to grinding for Ascended gear.

[Khlaw]

The gear treadmill, it only goes to one.  Actually, it already went to one.  Now it goes to 1/2 and to one.  I'll never get any exercise if things don't change.  I blame ANET for my flabby e-belly.

Edit: if I was ANET, I wouldn't be promising not to implement future tiers either.  While tiers do seem counter to the manifesto, there are ways new gear can be added without making a treadmill of things (which is what I believe ascended is.  Not a true tier and totally innocent by itself, but being blasted for what it could mean for the future).  

But if ANET were to come out and say they won't add future tiers, they're setting themselves up for being burned at the stake for lying.  The game's just too new to make promises like that.  If the endgame proposed by the manifesto isn't sustainable, I would guess ANET would consider a number of options, one of them being becoming a more traditional MMO (at which point I might be one of the people to quit).

Edited by Khlaw, 21 November 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[General Typhus]

All you ascended ragers will burn out and leave soon I hope. You're just stuck on repeat. We get it; this isn't the game you thought it was or whatever.

[stefanplc]

It really doesn't sound that bad to be honest and it makes sense. You could get full exotics the moment you hit lvl 80 just by crafting them or getting them from the trading post or if you wanted to do dungeons for it you'd be finished with a set in less than a week. In comparison, getting a legendary, for most people it will take months and even the most hardcore needed a few good weeks. As you can see, there's a HUGE difference going from exotics to legendaries so they wanted to close that gap by introducing ascendant gear. They clearly said that and also mentioned specifically the fact that they're not going to create a treadmill, these will always be the set levels of gear.

So now the gear system looks more like this:
exotics: 1-7 days to get them all
ascendant: 1-x weeks
legendary: several months

In addition to that, you need to keep in mind that the population that's active on the forums is only a small percentage of the actual population that plays the game. While many people were complaining about this, many of which didn't even know or understood the full story, a large number were happy playing the game.

[obsie]

General Typhus, on 21 November 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

All you ascended ragers will burn out and leave soon I hope. You're just stuck on repeat. We get it; this isn't the game you thought it was or whatever.

Oh hey you ordered a cheeseburger? Here's a salad. IT'S ALMOST THE SAME HAHA. IT'S BOTH FOOD. I take your money now. Don't like it? OH OKAY, DON'T COME BACK.

100000% reasonable im sure.

[Milennin]

Craywulf, on 21 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Okay so calling people spoiled isn't going win me any arguments, but I will say this. This Infusion mechanic is not a "gear treadmill" that the complainers are making it out to be. Agony is not a new thing, it's directly from GW1 so it's not like they suddenly turned around and said lets add a treadmill.

Lol, the Agony mechanic is nothing like it was in GW1. Except that the name is pretty much the same. Maybe if they allowed Infusion on our current gear like it worked in GW1, by doing a story quest.

[General Typhus]

obsie, on 22 November 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

Oh hey you ordered a cheeseburger? Here's a salad. IT'S ALMOST THE SAME HAHA. IT'S BOTH FOOD. I take your money now. Don't like it? OH OKAY, DON'T COME BACK.

100000% reasonable im sure.

More like you ordered a cheeseburger, got a cheeseburger. 3 months later they took cheeseburgers off the menu and replaced it with a bacon cheeseburger.

[Plasticblanket]

Let us face the fact that Anet has damaged their reputation by lying with their "manifesto". Bad move Anet, bad move, but it doesn't matter because they pleased the hardcore WoW grinders.

Peace out Anet! Gw1 was awesome and competitive. Gw2 is just the ugly second child from a rotten donor who lied on the forms when he made his deposit and the pvp is hello kitty on easy mode!

[Soki]

I like how the only way people respond to any criticism of ANet's glaring missteps is similar to
"Well -I- enjoy it, why don't you? You must be the problem, and are stupid".
If you're cool with a game being sub-par to what it has the potential to be, you're a problem.

Edited by Soki, 22 November 2012 - 07:03 AM.

[General Typhus]

Soki, on 22 November 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

I like how the only way people respond to any criticism of ANet's glaring missteps is similar to
"Well -I- enjoy it, why don't you? You must be the problem, and are stupid".
If you're cool with a game being sub-par to what it has the potential to be, you're a problem.

But you just demonstrated your logic is exactly the same. You are trying to pass your opinion of this game as fact and implying that if it doesn't take the direction that you want it to it will be sub-par.

Edited by General Typhus, 22 November 2012 - 07:37 AM.

[Galandil]

General Typhus, on 22 November 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

But you just demonstrated your logic is exactly the same. You are trying to pass your opinion of this game as fact and implying that if it doesn't take the direction that you want it to it will be sub-par.

No, we demonstrated that it's not just our opinion, it's simply a fact that the game took a direction opposite to the one they have been advertising before and for 2 months after release.

Edited by Galandil, 22 November 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[Soki]

General Typhus, on 22 November 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

But you just demonstrated your logic is exactly the same. You are trying to pass your opinion of this game as fact and implying that if it doesn't take the direction that you want it to it will be sub-par.

Make a case in favor of a radiance-like mechanic.
In what way is an arbitrary number that makes you able to even attempt a boss a good game mechanic - particularly when you look at ANet's manifesto for GW2?

The case has been made by myself and thousands of others -against- it - and I've yet to see a logical argument -for- it.

Spoiler

that's because there's no logical argument to make for it. It's a bad mechanic, and you can't prove it's not - because it's just there to extend the life of content that doesn't need such a crutch. It's a lazy slapdash idea, and the more you defend sh*t like it, the more of a problem people like you are to the quality of games

Edited by Soki, 22 November 2012 - 07:47 AM.

[Galandil]

On a funny note, I've been suspended temporarily on the official forum, because I got 4 posts infracted. I'll report them here just to show for a good laugh.

1st one:

Your original post in Chris Whiteside on the Lost Shores and Beyond:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

- If this thread becomes another one where people bicker back and forth about Ascended gear, I will close it down. Please continue discussion about Ascended gear in the existing threads on that topic and do not derail every thread that pops up.

Don’t you get a clue by the fact that, when you publish statements like this last one by Chris, people is trying to tell you the same thing and you still don’t address it in the proper way a serious and professional developer should do?
Oh, and btw, the thread about Ascended items was closed by another CM. Why don’t you tell us, plain and simple, to stop complaining at all since this is your new view (vertical prog. that is) of the game so we can all make, at least this time, a pondered choice to go on playing or not?

Moderator Notes:

Staff call-outs are not allowed. Please refrain from such posts in the future. Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

Feels like "don't mess with the Kerstein".

2nd one:

Your original post in Chris Whiteside on the Lost Shores and Beyond:

Mif.3471:

Completely ignored the huge amount of feedback from Oceanic players about being unable to participate…

Well, be happy, he did address your issues in the usual, indirect way of every PR-style statement:
Having said that, we’re also aware that there were certain aspects of the event that could have worked better than they did, and thanks to your excellent feedback we’ll be working toward strengthening this type of content moving forward. At ArenaNet, we always try to push the boundaries of how we build online worlds, and we thank you for your patience and collaboration as we pioneer into unknown territories. We’ve seen people saying that they really liked the principle of using events to unveil new content, but we need to tighten up the methods by which they are deployed.
In a certain way, you can put the timing issues in the “methods by which they are deployed”.
Ofc, I’m completely disappointed by the fact that not a word was spent on all the uproar about ascended items, gating system, etc. But, atm, I’d expect nothing more and nothing less, I already lost my “faith”. Standard PR bullkitten.

Moderator Notes:

Posts created for the sake of complaining are not allowed as they do not invite constructive discussion. Please refrain from creating such post in the future.

Funny thing, for once I defended Anet regarding the oceanic players issue regarding one time events, and of course the only important thing that the mod found was just the last sentence.

3rd one:


Your original post in Chris Whiteside on the Lost Shores and Beyond:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

you cant yet… but there are plans for that to change. good freaking lord people this stuff takes time
also if you dont like Dungeons why is the gear manditory…. the only effect it realy has is that of the Fractals

And WvW, which is 1/3rd of all the game.
Sometimes it’d be better if people stop using their two neurons to play pong and actually connect them.

Moderator Notes:

Posts that are rude, insulting, and/or inflammatory are not allowed. Please refrain from such posts in the future. Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

Ok, in this one I've been rude and inflammatory. Insulting, not so much, when there're still idiots who believe that there's no problem with higher stats due to grind in a PvP ambient.

4th one:


Your original post in Chris Whiteside on the Lost Shores and Beyond:

Ursan.7846:

Curious. Do you seriously believe this?

And do you seriously believe the post I quoted?

Moderator Notes:

Posts that are off topic are not allowed. Please refrain from such posts in the future. Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

This need a little back history. I can't access the forum atm, so I'll describe here the background shortly. A user posted the usual argument that "forums maybe represent less than 10% of the whole user base of the game". I replied stating that "It's obvious, because more than 90% of the players that didn't want ascended items already left the game and the forum."
So Ursan quoted my post asking if I was serious about my "90%+ quit the game", and I replied just to demonstrate that, if we take that logic, then both statements must be true, and not just the "10%" one. -> OT, lol.

So, don't be excited about the incoming AMA, it will be just another showcase of how good and smart Anet is, the questions will be cherry picked, I feel like I'm seeing again the same movie aboum WMD in Iraq and the Bush administration, just look at what you want to look, and deny all the rest.

Edit: the suspension is due to these + 3 other old posts that were infracted. So a total of 7 infractions is needed to be temporarily suspended. And I don't even know for how much time.

Edited by Galandil, 22 November 2012 - 07:55 AM.

[Shinimas]

Praise ye prophet ArenaNet, for it can have no fault. Listen to it and bathe in its glory. Ascended be believers!

Galandil, on 22 November 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

No, we demonstrated that it's not just our opinion, it's simply a fact that the game took a direction opposite to the one they have been advertising before and for 2 months after release.

It's gw2guru. People here are covered in brown down to their necks.

[Galandil]

Shinimas, on 22 November 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

It's gw2guru. People here are covered in brown down to their necks.

This is a kind of behaviour that I'll never understand.

Don't get me wrong: I was a huge believer in this game, before it went on release. I pre-ordered it, I played all the BWEs and stress tests, and even with all its evident faults (bugs, glitches, profession balance, etc.), I firmly believed that Anet would address all those issues given time.

But there's a moment, in every sane and sound minded person, when the blind faith in everything should stop, and the skeptical and critical way of thinking should kick in, just looking at the facts. Shattering the faith and the hope it's hard to stand, but it's the only rational choice that remains.

We must surrender to the evidence at hand. Atm, we have enough: treadmilling, vertical progression, gating content, not enough time spent on balancing/bugs issues, etc.

And, overall, this forum doesn't seem a fanboy cove, except the expected exceptions.

[Happiness Factory]

I play spvp with hardly any features. And guess what I'm rank 41 with over 700 hours played because i *ing enjoy myself and i love this game.

I've experienced tons of empty promises, and believe me when i say that this ascended gear is nothing to bitch about. I mean honestly if we're going to go with the gear treadmill metaphor. Running is a hell of a lot better than standing and doing nothing because the treadmill isnt there and you have nothing to do. Of course I do hope there is a sense in this kind of progression, I hope that legendarys wont become useless sacks of junk 3 years down the line, like some of the most difficult pieces of gear in WoW did. [Thunderfury] [Blades of Azinoth or w.e]

But lets be real, play the game until you dont like it... not until you think you might not like it in the far future.

*Bzzt* Fanboy out *Bzzt*

[Gilles VI]

Galandil, on 21 November 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

. In syntesis, it states "stop complaining about ascended items and gtfo".

This rule is used on every forum on the the internet..
"If there is already a thread about a subject, don't start a new one, but post in that thread."

From GWGuru forum rules:

Quote

--Use the Search Feature
When you have a question on a topic, use the Search feature first, most likely your question has already been answered. Posts in which users have clearly NOT performed even a superficial search will be unilaterally deleted, in order to avoid the forum being swamped with countless threads on common topics.

[Galandil]

Gilles VI, on 22 November 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

This rule is used on every forum on the the internet..
"If there is already a thread about a subject, don't start a new one, but post in that thread."

Wow, I never thought of that, thank you!

Do you know that the thread about Ascended items was already previously closed by another CM on the official forum? And that this very fact has already been reported even in this thread? Learn to read before posting, kktnxbye.

Edited by Galandil, 22 November 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[Gilles VI]

Galandil, on 22 November 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Wow, I never thought of that, thank you!

Do you know that the thread about Ascended items was already previously closed by another CM on the official forum? Nice trolling try, kktnxbye.

They close it for a reason.
Because people (like you just did) resort to flaming, insulting, w/e.

[Galandil]

Gilles VI, on 22 November 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

They close it for a reason.
Because people (like you just did) resort to flaming, insulting, w/e.

And so there's a logic in telling people to go to post in the appropriate thread, which is closed.

Edited by Galandil, 22 November 2012 - 09:50 AM.

[lmaonade]

Looks like Anet wants to walk the path of the mainstream, what can you do?

[Illein]

Somehow this kind of posts always remind me of Republicans telling Democrate voters they're sheeple for following Obama into a second term, cause he's handing the money, reasonable healthcare and obama-phones out to the poor, gives weapons to Mexicans to kill US citizens and didn't prevent Benghazi from happening as any upstanding US president would have done....

It's a god damn NEWS article. Point me onto a single company's website with news about its products that says something along the lines of "Oh, it's great and all..but the colour goes off the vacuum cleaner about 2 months in.." it'd not be a big deal at all, yet you won't find stuff like that because it's simply not how marketing is done. It stresses the positive aspects and makes promise of further improvement.

Feel free to branch out into other avenues of business, doesn't have to be a gaming company's website - there are fantastrillion cooperative company websites out there, I am sure you'll find me a single one. Unless all of them are as rotten from the inside as Arena Net is

Then Martin Kerstein tells people NOT to turn it into another Ascended-gear debate, and you spin it into something it was not. Chapéau, good job on that. It's just like here on Guru, you have at least 6 topics running right now that basically are about Ascended gear, when one would have done.

Maybe you should find something better to do with your time than taking a PR piece and shit all over it as a gag-reflex of the phantom **** you feel rammed down your throat because they didn't write that they made the biggest mistake in their lifes, putting a gear progression into their game.

Not yet, maaaaaaybe you'll read that soon, once all players jumped the Titanic! IT WILL BE DREADFUL! SKY IS FALLING!

C'mon, get a grip. It's PR, no more no less.