81 replies to this topic

[Gilles VI]

Galandil, on 22 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

And so there's a logic in telling people to go to post in the appropriate thread, which is closed.

1 thread was closed, multiple others were still open.
Not everyone needs to open a new thread about the same subject because they think they're a special snowflake.

[KryTiKaL]

NuclearDonut, on 21 November 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

I don't think anyone has a problem with the infusion part of Ascended items, there are 3 common complaints about these new items.
1) They have better stats than Exotics, something that was expected to never happen. It kind of went against ANet's entire philosophy of this game.
2) It requires a crazy amount of grind. Many many many dungeons runs are needed to get only the accessories, who knows how hard it is gonna be to get the armor once they implement it?
3)ANet has refused to say that Ascended will be the last tier of gear, from which one can predict that a new tier will be introduced in the future. By definition, a gear treadmill.

I find all of these concerns very valid. I also agree with the OP that Martin Kerstein has been pretty unprofessional in general when responding to these concerns. Like I said, I gave in a while ago because I just want to enjoy the game, so I'll eventually succumb to grinding for Ascended gear.

"Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on."

https://forum-en.gui...Chris-Whiteside

People just don't pay attention. Also, please don't pull that "Oh well they could just do it after 6 months" because I've seen that said and honestly you're just another one of those "ITS A CONSPIRACY" people. Chill out.

[General Typhus]

Soki, on 22 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Make a case in favor of a radiance-like mechanic.
In what way is an arbitrary number that makes you able to even attempt a boss a good game mechanic - particularly when you look at ANet's manifesto for GW2?

The case has been made by myself and thousands of others -against- it - and I've yet to see a logical argument -for- it.

Spoiler

that's because there's no logical argument to make for it. It's a bad mechanic, and you can't prove it's not - because it's just there to extend the life of content that doesn't need such a crutch. It's a lazy slapdash idea, and the more you defend sh*t like it, the more of a problem people like you are to the quality of games

It offers a sense of progression without imbalancing stats relevant to other areas of the game.

[Selvyn R]

The only thing I'm finding bullkitten is this rather tiny percentage of the community that seem to think this is a big deal. You guys do read what you have said before you post it right? Does it not seem rather silly to be this concerned over a game? Does it not seem absurd that you are this negative about Devs trying to improve their game for the future, it could have been handled better yes but they do reflect on that:

"we’re also aware that there were certain aspects of the event that could have worked better than they did, and thanks to your excellent feedback we’ll be working toward strengthening this type of content moving forward."

As for ascended gear, what else will you be doing on the game? Exotics have more customization at the cost of them being a few stat points short of being the same as ascended, if you plan on playing for years (I do myself) why does it have to be such a travesty to have something to work for? Something that you don't even need to work for if you don't want to even if you wvwvw, you will still be efficient in wvwvw. Even at level one you can do stuff to help out, if you want to be the best of the best, be prepared to put the work in, this is true of any game ever created, hell its true in Life. (Also refer to post above mine about the supposed treadmill)

Its funny how I only ever see this type of behaviour on the forums and see hardily anything like this in the actual game...makes me sad that when I want to look at the forums for something and all I see is this crap. In the future I should probably practice what I preach and not look at any forums even if it means missing out on stuff in game because of it.

This is barely a molehill, please stop making it out to be a mountain.

[raspberry jam]

Illein, on 22 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

It's a god damn NEWS article. Point me onto a single company's website with news about its products that says something along the lines of "Oh, it's great and all..but the colour goes off the vacuum cleaner about 2 months in.." it'd not be a big deal at all, yet you won't find stuff like that because it's simply not how marketing is done. It stresses the positive aspects and makes promise of further improvement.

Yeah, but what ANet did was to say specifically that "the color will not come off the vacuum cleaner about 2 months in". And then it did. And then when people call them out on it, they don't even address the issue, they just go "it sucks even more now".

Selvyn R, on 22 November 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

if you plan on playing for years (I do myself) why does it have to be such a travesty to have something to work for?

Why do you want to work in a video game? If you have such a drive to work that you do it instead of doing fun things, you should not have any problem finding a job that will give you actual money instead of pixels.

[NuclearDonut]

KryTiKaL, on 22 November 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

"Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on."

https://forum-en.gui...Chris-Whiteside

People just don't pay attention. Also, please don't pull that "Oh well they could just do it after 6 months" because I've seen that said and honestly you're just another one of those "ITS A CONSPIRACY" people. Chill out.

Every 3 months does not count as forever my friend. I specifically remember seeing an interview with Mike O'Brian after this whole shitstorm went down where the interviewer asked him, "Will we be seeing better tiers of gear in the future?" and he responded something like, "I'm not going to say no because I don't want people to think I'm some kind of liar like what happened this time if we do introduce a new tier." It wasn't exactly that, but I'm going to try to find the source and exact quotes of that interview.

[garethfedwards]

General Typhus, on 22 November 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

More like you ordered a cheeseburger, got a cheeseburger. 3 months later they took cheeseburgers off the menu and replaced it with a bacon cheeseburger.

I like bacon.... oh and treadmills.

I mean at least repeating myslef for carrot on stick is better than simply repeating myself. I mean at least repeating myslef for carrot on stick is better than simply repeating myself. I mean at least repeating myslef for carrot on stick is better than simply repeating myself.

[Illein]

raspberry jam, on 22 November 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Yeah, but what ANet did was to say specifically that "the color will not come off the vacuum cleaner about 2 months in". And then it did. And then when people call them out on it, they don't even address the issue, they just go "it sucks even more now".

Why do you want to work in a video game? If you have such a drive to work that you do it instead of doing fun things, you should not have any problem finding a job that will give you actual money instead of pixels.

But...they did. They gave their statement on how they think it's necessary. Plenty of people don't agree and they're free to let their voices be heard in various forum threads here and on the official board, needless to say. But it's just unrealistic and idiotic to expect them to put it into their official "To do list" of a PR flyer.

* Quarrel some with a portion of our customer base about the changes we've made

doesn't read well does it?

[raspberry jam]

Illein, on 22 November 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

But...they did. They gave their statement on how they think it's necessary. Plenty of people don't agree and they're free to let their voices be heard in various forum threads here and on the official board, needless to say. But it's just unrealistic and idiotic to expect them to put it into their official "To do list" of a PR flyer.

* Quarrel some with a portion of our customer base about the changes we've made

doesn't read well does it?

They didn't address the issue, except to say that people who don't like paint flaking off their vacuum cleaner should send mails to *ing santa claus about it instead of having their voice heard on the official vacuum cleaner forum.

Or, if you want to drop the metaphors, they introduced an extra gear tier when they specifically said that they would not, and then when people call them out on it, they ignore the issue by asking them to post about it in a thread that apparently already is closed.

[Illein]

raspberry jam, on 22 November 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

They didn't address the issue, except to say that people who don't like paint flaking off their vacuum cleaner should send mails to *ing santa claus about it instead of having their voice heard on the official vacuum cleaner forum.

Or, if you want to drop the metaphors, they introduced an extra gear tier when they specifically said that they would not, and then when people call them out on it, they ignore the issue by asking them to post about it in a thread that apparently already is closed.

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post721451

Is a proper statement. Whether you like the content of it or not, is another question, but to say they ignored it - is still wrong, because they didn't.

[Galandil]

Illein, on 22 November 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post721451

Is a proper statement. Whether you like the content of it or not, is another question, but to say they ignored it - is still wrong, because they didn't.

And this was another "non-answer", which was again addressed by the majority of the users (as much as the other one about the infamous "fill in the gaps" between exotics and legendaries).

If you ask a question, and then I write "And regarding your question: xydhufrekowd.", it doesn't mean that I have addressed your concern, giving an empty or illogical answer it's the same thing as not answering at all (or sometimes it's even worse).

There's a huge difference between what's legit (they can answer as they please, or not at all), and what's correct. I don't care for a legit, albeit empty and useless, answer. For you, it seems that's enough.

[Dirame]

obsie, on 22 November 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

Oh hey you ordered a cheeseburger? Here's a salad. IT'S ALMOST THE SAME HAHA. IT'S BOTH FOOD. I take your money now. Don't like it? OH OKAY, DON'T COME BACK.

100000% reasonable im sure.

They gave me a cheeseburger with salad dressing. I think your waitress doesn't like you.... probably because you don't give tips.

[Illein]

Galandil, on 22 November 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

And this was another "non-answer", which was again addressed by the majority of the users (as much as the other one about the infamous "fill in the gaps" between exotics and legendaries).

If you ask a question, and then I write "And regarding your question: xydhufrekowd.", it doesn't mean that I have addressed your concern, giving an empty or illogical answer it's the same thing as not answering at all (or sometimes it's even worse).

There's a huge difference between what's legit (they can answer as they please, or not at all), and what's correct. I don't care for a legit, albeit empty and useless, answer. For you, it seems that's enough.

Okay, so we agree that they have given their statement on what their goals are with Ascended gear and why they implemented it - but they didn't join the argument about whether its needed or not?

Good. Because saying they ignore the complaints, is a lie. Otherwise they wouldn't have given a statement to justify themselves. (And yes, I consider: We deemed it necessary to have proper progession, a legit answer - whether I like it or not, stands on another page.)

Because in your OP - you clearly state they haven't given a shit about the uproar so far. Might just be your inner drama-queen taking over?

Edited by Illein, 22 November 2012 - 05:24 PM.

[raspberry jam]

Illein, on 22 November 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post721451

Is a proper statement. Whether you like the content of it or not, is another question, but to say they ignored it - is still wrong, because they didn't.

Oh yeah, that one. The MMO version of "It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

They did not deal with the issue, because the issue is not the update, but that they lied. The only thing they said about that is "no we didn't lie, we're just going to do what we said we wouldn't do". That is not dealing with it.

[Elk]

Galandil, on 21 November 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

https://www.guildwar...res-and-beyond/

Not a single * was given about the uproar against Ascended items.

And, to top it with a very delicoius and nice cherry, in this thread:

https://forum-en.gui...ores-and-Beyond

the post by the head of global community is both appalling and outrageous. In syntesis, it states "stop complaining about ascended items and gtfo".

To me, this is simply patethic.

Edit: Lol sorry, I thought I was on Tyrian Assembly section, could a mod move it there? Thank you.

to be honest, I think Anet would have a better public image without their forums. They get a bad appearance for simple moderating posts. They can't just let the thread descend into mayhem, it's not MK telling people to stop discussing at all.

for everything else on the issue I...
*Like Anet
*Dislike Ascended items actually, I'm assuming they actually affect gameplay, but have no idea.

Edited by Elk, 22 November 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[Shiren]

Craywulf, on 21 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Okay so calling people spoiled isn't going win me any arguments, but I will say this. This Infusion mechanic is not a "gear treadmill" that the complainers are making it out to be. Agony is not a new thing, it's directly from GW1 so it's not like they suddenly turned around and said lets add a treadmill.

Last time I check I could get max agony resistance (honestly the two are so dramatically different in GW1 and GW2 it's ludicrous ArenaNet and others are even brining it up) within 10 minutes of running to the NPC who does it. In GW2 updgrading my ascended item (which cost 50 ecto, 250 max tier mats and an incredibly rare drop) to be infused will cost 250 ecto, when ecot sits at around 25 silver. A dungeon path which takes around an hour rewards 26 silver. It's offensive that ArenaNet are exploiting people's lack of knowledge of Spectral Agony and Infusion to create a straw man argument to further add chaos to the outrage over ascended items.

[Illein]

Shiren, on 22 November 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Last time I check I could get max agony resistance (honestly the two are so dramatically different in GW1 and GW2 it's ludicrous ArenaNet and others are even brining it up) within 10 minutes of running to the NPC who does it. In GW2 updgrading my ascended item (which cost 50 ecto, 250 max tier mats and an incredibly rare drop) to be infused will cost 250 ecto, when ecot sits at around 25 silver. A dungeon path which takes around an hour rewards 26 silver. It's offensive that ArenaNet are exploiting people's lack of knowledge of Spectral Agony and Infusion to create a straw man argument to further add chaos to the outrage over ascended items.

Just to chip in on that: There is an alternative recipe that costs 0 gold. 0. NULL in letters. Requires you to farm 1850 Fractal Relics though, which isn't an incredibly high number - but for more casual players, it will take its sweet time to achieve that. "Incredibly rare" is a massive exaggeration for the vial though. Most people I know have 3-5 after 1 week of the patch hitting live servers. Save for one guy who has still to get one - but that's RNG I guess. I'd not be surprised if they put the vial into the Fractal Vendors range at one point in the future to avoid people getting completely screwed by the RNG - however unlikely it is.

Then again, Ectoplasm prices are determined by those people who buy it at 26s a pop....they are a LOT easier to get now than they were a week ago, yet doubled in price - now what's that telling you...

Edited by Illein, 22 November 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[Happiness Factory]

Plasticblanket, on 22 November 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Wow good job! You are rank 41 in the lamest, easiest and dumbest pvp the world has ever seen. Go back to WoW please they miss you.

Well that was quite rude. Allow me to point some things out to you, this thread is in the sPvP forum. The only reason why i said what my rank was to show how much I play this game. Also I hope that you were referring to hotjoins when it comes to easiest,dumbest pvp the world has ever scene because Paid tournaments (when they pop) are extremely competitive and strategic.

Anyway, in response to your hate. I love you bro <3

[Zelxin]

I preordered GW2 on April 10th 2012, I started playing August 25th 2012, I haven't stopped playing, I haven't stopped enojoying myself while I play.
I do spend some time reading these forums just to get a kick about what people are bitching about lately.
All I see is:
OMKG THERE IS NO END GAME CONTENT!!!, even though there are 8(which include 4 different paths, including story mode) dungeons and now fractals which can be completed. Getting 100% map completion, completing all jumping puzzles and world boss encounters. I'd like to mention that I have about 500 hours of playtime and still only have 64% map completion. I've only ran all the paths of 2 dungeons. I have done most but not all of the world bosses no where near done all of the jumping puzzles.

So to make the people who are bitching about lack of endgame content and progression ANET adds a new slightly more power tier of items as a gap filler between exotics and legendaries (This is obviously to quell the people who were quiting over the fact that they could not get their legendary items within 3 months).

Could Anet have released ascended items with the same stats as exotics but just had a different kind of infusion slot? Yes, and I would have prefered that.
Could Anet have just released that you found that would let you infuse a piece of exotic armor and bam now you're armor is Ascended and has an infusion! Yes, that would have also been a valid way to go about it.
But there would be people who wouldn't think that was fair, you can't make all people happy all the time. There is a very focal minority that likes to rage over the tiniest things.

Down the line if Anet decides that they want to charge me a monthly fee. Well then you have my support that we should burn down their HQ, but until that day. Let them work on their game. They want you to enjoy it, they don't do this for kittens and giggles.

[Draugadan]

Zelxin, on 22 November 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

They want to make money, they don't do this for kittens and giggles.

Fixed that for you. Honestly, if introducing a mainstream feature that completely contradicts everything they've said before the game's release isn't a decision born out of the desire to make money, I don't know what is.

[General Typhus]

garethfedwards, on 22 November 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I like bacon.... oh and treadmills.

I mean at least repeating myslef for carrot on stick is better than simply repeating myself. I mean at least repeating myslef for carrot on stick is better than simply repeating myself. I mean at least repeating myslef for carrot on stick is better than simply repeating myself.

OMG! Buzzword of the day! Say it 3 more times in the next 15 seconds to win fabulous prizes such as the approval of your peers!

[Draugadan]

General Typhus, on 22 November 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

OMG! Buzzword of the day! Say it 3 more times in the next 15 seconds to win fabulous prizes such as the approval of your peers!

Quite the idea he's got there. I mean, given how many people seem to enjoy the pointless repetition of a certain action on these forums, we could cater for their pleasure by writing each sentence 3 times. After all, reading a sentence thrice is a walk in the park compared to spending 90 hours doing FotM to get ascended gear. After all, reading a sentence thrice is a walk in the park compared to spending 90 hours doing FotM to get ascended gear. After all, reading a sentence thrice is a walk in the park compared to spending 90 hours doing FotM to get ascended gear.

[General Typhus]

Draugadan, on 22 November 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Quite the idea he's got there. I mean, given how many people seem to enjoy the pointless repetition of a certain action on these forums, we could cater for their pleasure by writing each sentence 3 times. After all, reading a sentence thrice is a walk in the park compared to spending 90 hours doing FotM to get ascended gear. After all, reading a sentence thrice is a walk in the park compared to spending 90 hours doing FotM to get ascended gear. After all, reading a sentence thrice is a walk in the park compared to spending 90 hours doing FotM to get ascended gear.

Almost Freudian how the complainers seem to constantly repeat themselves about how they don't want to repeat themselves. I know you're trying to be ironic but it serves as a very poignant example of the hypocrisy perpetrated by the constant whinging.

[Selvyn R]

raspberry jam, on 22 November 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Why do you want to work in a video game? If you have such a drive to work that you do it instead of doing fun things, you should not have any problem finding a job that will give you actual money instead of pixels.

Poor wording on my part, but if that's all I'm getting pulled up on then I guess what I'm saying isn't so unreasonable! that, or people simply didn't read it, given the crowd, the latter is probably more accurate, on that note, thanks for reading the post and taking the time to reply!

I said the word "work" as it is something I enjoy but also think does require effort, I do enjoy my job, so maybe that's why I said that word instead of "play".

[Omega X]

Dirame, on 22 November 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

They gave me a cheeseburger with salad dressing. I think your waitress doesn't like you.... probably because you don't give tips.

Who tips a waitress that gives bad service?

[General Typhus]

Omega X, on 22 November 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Who tips a waitress that gives bad service?

No one, but it's up to you whether you want to be a civilized adult and choose to eat somewhere else, or you can choose to be the stereotypical senility-fueled senior that makes a scene for 30 minutes in front of the other customers to try and get a meal for free. Your call:

https://forum-en.gui...uin-this-for-me

[Omega X]

General Typhus, on 22 November 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

No one, but it's up to you whether you want to be a civilized adult and choose to eat somewhere else, or you can choose to be the stereotypical senility-fueled senior that makes a scene for 30 minutes in front of the other customers to try and get a meal for free. Your call:

https://forum-en.gui...uin-this-for-me

Sorry, I don't have time to deal with ridiculousness. There are too many games on the market with better services that deserve the money. Its their call. Fire the waitress that gives bad service or lose the business to someone else.

Edited by Omega X, 22 November 2012 - 09:22 PM.

[nurt]

as long as they add a way to get cool looking ascended items through WvW that takes around the same amount of time as getting them through PvE i don't think it's a big deal at all.  i understand some people are afraid that it might turn into a grind, but i think more people are turned off by having nothing left to strive for.  those people just quietly quit instead of making passionate forum posts though.

at least they aren't selling ascended stats in the gem store....

Edited by nurt, 22 November 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[General Typhus]

Omega X, on 22 November 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Sorry, I don't have time to deal with ridiculousness. There are too many games on the market with better services that deserve the money. Its their call. Fire the waitress that gives bad service or lose the business to someone else.

I think their message is pretty clear. You know where the door is. Thanks for stopping by.

[Galandil]

Illein, on 22 November 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Okay, so we agree that they have given their statement on what their goals are with Ascended gear and why they implemented it - but they didn't join the argument about whether its needed or not?

Good. Because saying they ignore the complaints, is a lie. Otherwise they wouldn't have given a statement to justify themselves. (And yes, I consider: We deemed it necessary to have proper progession, a legit answer - whether I like it or not, stands on another page.)

Because in your OP - you clearly state they haven't given a shit about the uproar so far. Might just be your inner drama-queen taking over?

This is incredible, after my post nonetheless. Are you a lawyer who tries to bend reality for his client's own advantage? Or just plain ignorant about the difference between "reply" and "answer"? Or you just love trolling?

Let me put it simply, so that even you can finally understand the difference:

- One asks you "Give me the answer of 2+2"
- You reply "A number"

Technically, you made a reply to my question, giving a generic answer but not satysfing the point of the question. Alas, you did not answer my question at all, you just replyed to it.

And with anet it was (is) the same thing. The community uproared and asked "why the heck increased stats on ascended items?", and they replyed with that uninformational post. Which gave NO answer to the question asked.

If you get it now, good. If you don't get it, well, too bad for you, you'll never get it at all.

Sincerely, your logical-drama-queen.