81 replies to this topic

[Arewn]

Galandil, on 22 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

This is incredible, after my post nonetheless. Are you a lawyer who tries to bend reality for his client's own advantage? Or just plain ignorant about the difference between "reply" and "answer"? Or you just love trolling?

Let me put it simply, so that even you can finally understand the difference:

- One asks you "Give me the answer of 2+2"
- You reply "A number"

Technically, you made a reply to my question, giving a generic answer but not satysfing the point of the question. Alas, you did not answer my question at all, you just replyed to it.

And with anet it was (is) the same thing. The community uproared and asked "why the heck increased stats on ascended items?", and they replyed with that uninformational post. Which gave NO answer to the question asked.

If you get it now, good. If you don't get it, well, too bad for you, you'll never get it at all.

Sincerely, your logical-drama-queen.

There's also a difference between the answer they give, and an answer you like.
In their reply, they answered the question, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can deny it as an answer.

[Galandil]

Arewn, on 22 November 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

There's also a difference between the answer they give, and an answer you like.
In their reply, they answered the question, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can deny it as an answer.

Guys, do you ALL have problems with logic? At this very moment, I think that it's so.

First, they replied with the post reported here, stating Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.

Which leads to the question "what reward there was before EXCEPT the skins?". Ascended have higher stats than Exotic, so in this regard the answer is profoundly illogical.

But let's go on.

They tried to specify more the thing, stating that they wanted to fill in the gap between Exotics and Legendaries. Ofc, another illogical answer, since there was NO gap between the two in terms of stats.

Then, again pressed by the community, the thinking one, they further explained that they were talking about a gap in terms of time and commitment to get exotic or legendary pieces.

Which, AGAIN, and for the 3rd time, brings no answer to why the Ascended pieces have higher stats than exotic, if the only purpose was to fill in the gap in terms of commitment, why not releasing a new tier of items with just different SKINS?

If you all easily drink to the chalice of illogical and vague explanations, it's your choice. Don't come to us people that want a clear answer on this matter telling that we "don't want to hear". Because they didn't say anything about why ascended items have better stats than exotics. And this is a fact, like it or not.

Edit: I forgot to mention the fact that this part has nothing related to their U-turn in comparison to what they said in the manifesto, etc. This part could be the topic of a total different thread.

Edited by Galandil, 22 November 2012 - 10:45 PM.

[Arewn]

Galandil, on 22 November 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

Guys, do you ALL have problems with logic? At this very moment, I think that it's so.

First, they replied with the post reported here, stating Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.

Which leads to the question "what reward there was before EXCEPT the skins?". Ascended have higher stats than Exotic, so in this regard the answer is profoundly illogical.

But let's go on.

They tried to specify more the thing, stating that they wanted to fill in the gap between Exotics and Legendaries. Ofc, another illogical answer, since there was NO gap between the two in terms of stats.

Then, again pressed by the community, the thinking one, they further explained that they were talking about a gap in terms of time and commitment to get exotic or legendary pieces.

Which, AGAIN, and for the 3rd time, brings no answer to why the Ascended pieces have higher stats than exotic, if the only purpose was to fill in the gap in terms of commitment, why not releasing a new tier of items with just different SKINS?

If you all easily drink to the chalice of illogical and vague explanations, it's your choice. Don't come to us people that want a clear answer on this matter telling that we "don't want to hear". Because they didn't say anything about why ascended items have better stats than exotics. And this is a fact, like it or not.

Edit: I forgot to mention the fact that this part has nothing related to their U-turn in comparison to what they said in the manifesto, etc. This part could be the topic of a total different thread.

For someone making such strong appeals to logic as the basis for your arguments, you really aren't using that supremely logical mind of yours to figure things out or make logical interpretations of the information provided.
And throwing around "logical" this and "illogical" that isn't making your point any stronger, you seem to have misconstrued ideas on logic.


And to answer "why do ascended items have higher stats than exotics": Because the dungeon they are being implemented with and for (Fractals of the Mists) has a primary goal of satisfying the subset of the player base who desires a progressive dungeon experience (generally speaking, requiring gear goals), the new gear needed to be a black and white upgrade, not a subjective "if you like it, go for it" in order to be a proper incentive for progression. And, as you mentioned, they decided on an entirely new tier of gear instead of just making infusions on exotics as the dungeon reward because they needed to fill the legendary gap.

[Khlaw]

Personally, I'm looking forward to the next totally dishonest, go get a refund, this is the end of GW2, Nexon is the devil, complete breach of The Manifesto Which Shall Never Be Violated.

This one's getting stale.

[FBRin]

Khlaw, on 23 November 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

Personally, I'm looking forward to the next totally dishonest, go get a refund, this is the end of GW2, Nexon is the devil, complete breach of The Manifesto Which Shall Never Be Violated.

This one's getting stale.

I don't think there is anything left on the 'Manisfesto" to go back on at this point lol.

[Keepy]

The game got released unfinished they are working as fast as they can in many aspects me myself have never seen any game company releasing content as fast as this game, yes we can feel something fishy like a problem with interests and monetary.. lets give them more time and be patient is too soon for us to judge.

[Illein]

Galandil, on 22 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

This is incredible, after my post nonetheless. Are you a lawyer who tries to bend reality for his client's own advantage? Or just plain ignorant about the difference between "reply" and "answer"? Or you just love trolling?

Let me put it simply, so that even you can finally understand the difference:

- One asks you "Give me the answer of 2+2"
- You reply "A number"

Technically, you made a reply to my question, giving a generic answer but not satysfing the point of the question. Alas, you did not answer my question at all, you just replyed to it.

And with anet it was (is) the same thing. The community uproared and asked "why the heck increased stats on ascended items?", and they replyed with that uninformational post. Which gave NO answer to the question asked.

If you get it now, good. If you don't get it, well, too bad for you, you'll never get it at all.

Sincerely, your logical-drama-queen.

"God damnit! The highway is full of wrong-way-drivers!" ~ The Wrong-Way driver

Edited by Illein, 23 November 2012 - 08:24 AM.

[Priest]

Illein, on 23 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

"God damnit! The highway is full of wrong-way-drivers!" ~ The Wrong-Way driver

Your counter argument to him may have been valid, except Anet answered the whole thing with a  lie, which defeats your, "they provided an answer" unless you are now going to consider lying as a valid response from a company. The worst part is their lie is in direct contrast with the manifesto they bragged about for years, and sold this game on the premise of.

Just to make it crystal clear, they're (Anet) claiming they added ascended gear to "bridge the gap" between exotics and legendaries. Here's the rub, there was never a gap between exotics and legendaries to begin with. Legendaries were nothing more than different skins. i.e cosmetic upgrades which looked better. If they wanted to bridge the "time" gap, then the ascended gear shouldn't have had increased stats, just taken less time than a legendary.

So unless you're a 5 year old who can't follow simple logic, or a raging fanboy, they haven't really answered the question as to why the reverted on their manifesto within the first 4 months of launch. I've clearly (and quite quickly and easily) shown that the bridging the gap response was nothing more than pr spin since there was no gap to bridge (stat-wise).

[Illein]

Priest, on 23 November 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Your counter argument to him may have been valid, except Anet answered the whole thing with a  lie, which defeats your, "they provided an answer" unless you are now going to consider lying as a valid response from a company. The worst part is their lie is in direct contrast with the manifesto they bragged about for years, and sold this game on the premise of.

Just to make it crystal clear, they're (Anet) claiming they added ascended gear to "bridge the gap" between exotics and legendaries. Here's the rub, there was never a gap between exotics and legendaries to begin with. Legendaries were nothing more than different skins. i.e cosmetic upgrades which looked better. If they wanted to bridge the "time" gap, then the ascended gear shouldn't have had increased stats, just taken less time than a legendary.

So unless you're a 5 year old who can't follow simple logic, or a raging fanboy, they haven't really answered the question as to why the reverted on their manifesto within the first 4 months of launch. I've clearly (and quite quickly and easily) shown that the bridging the gap response was nothing more than pr spin since there was no gap to bridge (stat-wise).

Bullshit.

Their answer is "WE ADDED A GEAR TREADMILL" - it's not what they call it, obviously, because it has exclusively negative connotations but that's what it narrows down to. Some throw a cow over it, some don't.

So if you don't like gear treadmills - you won't like the answer, but it's still a valid one so feel free to ship your condescending logical fallacy to a different shore.

It's obvious that THEY feel people want for a gear progression not only in a visual but also in a power-increase sorta way, otherwise they'd not have added it. I'd assume they'll take the feedback on it, for what it's worth and make an educated decision on whether they want to antagonize the one part of their population over the other, or the other way around.

In the meanwhile, everyone is free to put their doomsday glory out in the open for everyone to chip in and support them or tell them to relax. That's my take on it.

[KryTiKaL]

NuclearDonut, on 22 November 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Every 3 months does not count as forever my friend. I specifically remember seeing an interview with Mike O'Brian after this whole shitstorm went down where the interviewer asked him, "Will we be seeing better tiers of gear in the future?" and he responded something like, "I'm not going to say no because I don't want people to think I'm some kind of liar like what happened this time if we do introduce a new tier." It wasn't exactly that, but I'm going to try to find the source and exact quotes of that interview.

Yeah you keep trying to find that.

In the meantime even if he did say that do you not understand the context behind that? People called him a liar because they -assumed- that the introduction of the Ascended gear was the beginning of a gear treadmill which, as people stated during their main argument to the matter, goes against their manifesto. He said that because he doesn't want people to pull such an assumption again and be thrown insults like being called a liar like that again. He is staying away from specifics because there are those within the community that misunderstood what was going on and thus it lead to any and all of these threads appearing. He is not going to reveal anything specific for the future, mechanics wise, because apparently people -will- go off on those kinds of tangents due to not fully understanding how it all works or what its purpose is. Just like what happened here.

Saddening. Not the first time a company has had to dumb something down for the inept masses. Look at WoW. The game has become a facerolling barrel of ineptitude, thats exactly why I -quit- the game back in WOTLK because I just saw it coming and that is exactly where it started.

[cocodog13]

i know anet went back on what they said by adding ascended items(kinda. you can harldy call a small stat differnce between only 2 types of the gear a "tredmill" (learn how to use the word tredmill plx) BUT if you look at the games population its quite obvious some sort of change in policy was needed (not saying this is the right one).

when your game starts to die shortly after release (because every mmo community atm seems to be filled with over9000 crybaby carebears that will run back to WoW at the slightest misshap). that knee jerk reactions start to happen (because when it comes down to it. anet is a company and needs to generate profit to function)

i seriously cant understand this community. you constantly tell anet theyre rubbish instead of making constructive crits (every old constructive crit that made sence has ether been implemented or promissed as far as i can see). and then you wonder why they give you the finger?! i'll hopefully not see you all in a year or so once youve all gone back to being carebears and this game has become an epic underdog...

[Soki]

Zelxin, on 22 November 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

I preordered GW2 on April 10th 2012, I started playing August 25th 2012, I haven't stopped playing, I haven't stopped enojoying myself while I play.
I do spend some time reading these forums just to get a kick about what people are bitching about lately.
All I see is:
OMKG THERE IS NO END GAME CONTENT!!!, even though there are 8(which include 4 different paths, including story mode) dungeons and now fractals which can be completed. Getting 100% map completion, completing all jumping puzzles and world boss encounters. I'd like to mention that I have about 500 hours of playtime and still only have 64% map completion. I've only ran all the paths of 2 dungeons. I have done most but not all of the world bosses no where near done all of the jumping puzzles.

So to make the people who are bitching about lack of endgame content and progression ANET adds a new slightly more power tier of items as a gap filler between exotics and legendaries (This is obviously to quell the people who were quiting over the fact that they could not get their legendary items within 3 months).

Could Anet have released ascended items with the same stats as exotics but just had a different kind of infusion slot? Yes, and I would have prefered that.
Could Anet have just released that you found that would let you infuse a piece of exotic armor and bam now you're armor is Ascended and has an infusion! Yes, that would have also been a valid way to go about it.
But there would be people who wouldn't think that was fair, you can't make all people happy all the time. There is a very focal minority that likes to rage over the tiniest things.

Down the line if Anet decides that they want to charge me a monthly fee. Well then you have my support that we should burn down their HQ, but until that day. Let them work on their game. They want you to enjoy it, they don't do this for kittens and giggles.

I wish I could enjoy mediocrity.

[Priest]

Illein, on 23 November 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Bullshit.

Their answer is "WE ADDED A GEAR TREADMILL" - it's not what they call it, obviously, because it has exclusively negative connotations but that's what it narrows down to. Some throw a cow over it, some don't.

So if you don't like gear treadmills - you won't like the answer, but it's still a valid one so feel free to ship your condescending logical fallacy to a different shore.

It's obvious that THEY feel people want for a gear progression not only in a visual but also in a power-increase sorta way, otherwise they'd not have added it. I'd assume they'll take the feedback on it, for what it's worth and make an educated decision on whether they want to antagonize the one part of their population over the other, or the other way around.

In the meanwhile, everyone is free to put their doomsday glory out in the open for everyone to chip in and support them or tell them to relax. That's my take on it.

Nice that you glossed over their whole, "we're bridging the gap... when there was no gap to bridge" statement. They would have done themselves a tremendous favor had they simply said we've decided to add better gear due to the complaints of people wanting progression, instead of trying to blow smoke up all of our arses by adding pr spin and hoping we're too stupid to see the forest through the trees. I'll state again since you seemed to miss it. There was no gap to bridge, therefore their answer was a lie.

I wish Anet all the success in the world, but lying to people in hopes they don't understand isn't how to go about it. Most of the 300 people in my guild have already quit. And I know a large portion of our alliance is no more. And before you blow a gasket, it wasn't all due to ascended gear (more so the pathetic state of tourny pvp). But it was a  contributing factor.

[Illein]

Priest, on 24 November 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Nice that you glossed over their whole, "we're bridging the gap... when there was no gap to bridge" statement. They would have done themselves a tremendous favor had they simply said we've decided to add better gear due to the complaints of people wanting progression, instead of trying to blow smoke up all of our arses by adding pr spin and hoping we're too stupid to see the forest through the trees. I'll state again since you seemed to miss it. There was no gap to bridge, therefore their answer was a lie.

I wish Anet all the success in the world, but lying to people in hopes they don't understand isn't how to go about it. Most of the 300 people in my guild have already quit. And I know a large portion of our alliance is no more. And before you blow a gasket, it wasn't all due to ascended gear (more so the pathetic state of tourny pvp). But it was a  contributing factor.

What? There was a gap. As they stated they were talking about the accessibility of Exotics and Legendaries - as you are probably well aware of. Why they added stats then, though? I don't know, I could only speculate that its been a common request by a lot of people who are wont to that sort of personal progression. *shrugs* Apparently something urged them to do it. Your guess is as good as mine.

And I don't really give flying monkey faeces whether you leave the game or not, I don't even know you - don't be pretentious

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Edited by Illein, 24 November 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[DarkGanni]

Craywulf, on 21 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Okay so calling people spoiled isn't going win me any arguments, but I will say this. This Infusion mechanic is not a "gear treadmill" that the complainers are making it out to be. Agony is not a new thing, it's directly from GW1 so it's not like they suddenly turned around and said lets add a treadmill.

Not sure If you actually played GW1 by your comment. In GW1 ANet didn't tell you "your armor is useless and you need to craft a stronger one to advance", no they let you keep your current armor and add the infusion on it. It was more like of an upgrade.

GW2's Infusion carries only the name, other than that you're forced to craft the new accessory from scratch and may aswell trash your old one.

Take into perspective those who bought the guild backpack (costs 5 gold I remind you) because it was the strongest backpack just to find out there's a slightly stronger one which can be literally acquired for free just by grinding the first 9 fractal levels.


To me if ANet was like: hey you can keep your current backpack / accessories and upgrade them for say 100 ectos would have been a totally better deal.

There are casual players which don't have much time to play and if those same people want to do high level fractals in their free time, they're gonna hit the grinding wall to do just because getting the required item is a straight off mega grind.

[Stellarthief]

Did anyone ever really quote a direct post, interview, etc. from arena net where exotics are explicitly stated as the end tier of gear?

[HitoriJQ]

I don't really see what there is to complain about. You get to play an amazing game with no sub fee for as many hours per day / week / month as your heart desires. After your original purchase you are forced to pay ZERO more dollars.


Any other game on PC or console you buy "As is" you pay your money and play the game for what it is. here is a game that is constantly updated and tweaked, for free on your end, and yet people still whine about everything.


I wish MMOs went back to EQ days with massive death penalties and forced partying, that would weed out all the wet diaper players like OP who feel entitled to know every direction of a game, in advance, for all time.

If you don't like it, quit.

[Graka]

cocodog13, on 24 November 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

i know anet went back on what they said by adding ascended items(kinda. you can harldy call a small stat differnce between only 2 types of the gear a "tredmill" (learn how to use the word tredmill plx) BUT if you look at the games population its quite obvious some sort of change in policy was needed (not saying this is the right one).

when your game starts to die shortly after release (because every mmo community atm seems to be filled with over9000 crybaby carebears that will run back to WoW at the slightest misshap). that knee jerk reactions start to happen (because when it comes down to it. anet is a company and needs to generate profit to function)

i seriously cant understand this community. you constantly tell anet theyre rubbish instead of making constructive crits (every old constructive crit that made sence has ether been implemented or promissed as far as i can see). and then you wonder why they give you the finger?! i'll hopefully not see you all in a year or so once youve all gone back to being carebears and this game has become an epic underdog...

You have to understand the mentality now a days, for some reason over the last 10 years its gone from being impressed that a company keeps trying to add more and do better to basically bitching that everything isnt perfect all the time and you cant have your way all the time. Its kind of sad really. Its one of the reasons that gw2guru has become a cesspool of people just complaining, its funny how much they hate this game, its almost like they feel a need to justify their hate of the game so they come to these forums looking for more people that feel the same way instead of just quitting. Its basically "Guys please tell me you also think this game is crap so I dont feel alone, cause I kind of like the game but I feel I should hate it" then when they find people that also hate it they sit around talking about how terrible the game is and bitching, instead of just leaving for a so called 'better' game or actually giving constructive feedback on the official forums. If you look around you will usually find its the same people complaining.

[Illein]

Graka, on 25 November 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

You have to understand the mentality now a days, for some reason over the last 10 years its gone from being impressed that a company keeps trying to add more and do better to basically bitching that everything isnt perfect all the time and you cant have your way all the time. Its kind of sad really. Its one of the reasons that gw2guru has become a cesspool of people just complaining, its funny how much they hate this game, its almost like they feel a need to justify their hate of the game so they come to these forums looking for more people that feel the same way instead of just quitting. Its basically "Guys please tell me you also think this game is crap so I dont feel alone, cause I kind of like the game but I feel I should hate it" then when they find people that also hate it they sit around talking about how terrible the game is and bitching, instead of just leaving for a so called 'better' game or actually giving constructive feedback on the official forums. If you look around you will usually find its the same people complaining.

It DOES feel a bit like Doomsday-Sayer convention with everyone bringing their own soap-box to circle jerk onto their predictions from up high...Maybe you're onto something.

[Priest]

As opposed to the blind fanboys who will defend everything to their dying breath... irony knows no bounds it seems.

[Illein]

Priest, on 25 November 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

As opposed to the blind fanboys who will defend everything to their dying breath... irony knows no bounds it seems.

Thank god there are reasonable people on both ends of that spectrum

[Kattar]

Thread should have been locked days ago.