275 replies to this topic

[Ritualist]

1. Ascended gear AI trader that crafts ascended gear at a cost of 1 gold per piece. This gear comes in all possible stat variations, but in only one design - the starter one.
2. Remove waypoint costs, re-spec fees and armour repair fees.
3. Potentially increase the costs of crafting and/or trading post taxes.


Problem solved. Not only do we end up with a system that is better than the one we have now, it's actually a system that is in line with the game's Manifesto.

Edited by Protoss, 23 November 2012 - 05:01 PM.

[Rhubarb Pie]

This topic that started about people without money sense (like me) being restricted in playing the game. Yet, with the exception of maybe 3 people, this has become a discussion on "the importance of gold".

The most of the explainations have been well thought out and (for the most part) not needlessly rude. For the multitude of people that simply said (and yes I am implying you are simple) "don't die", I say to you... Stop farming lvl 10 centaurs with your lvl 80 toons. And before you post a reply saying you aren't callouslly bulling "baby foes" know that every one of us reading this post know that you are. You are weak and can't handle a real challenge. (Even if this is just an assumption, it is no different than you assuming I die alot, if at all)

Midnight_Tea, on 22 November 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

OO

Daesu, on 22 November 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

OO

Trei, on 22 November 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

OO

and others have had a great discussion about why gold sinks are necessary. And after reading through all your posts, For the sake of the TP I agree. However, all these arguements (for and against) have been based on the money system in the adventure MMO that I bought to play. They have failed to adress the fact that the adventure MMO that I purchased to play is being interfered with by the "Donald Trump" side game (that seems to be in eternal beta in every MMO except Guildwars 1). There are gold sinks ingame that do not interfere with game play, like the training books and user fees at the Trade Post. I have no problem with them. In fact I have a 74th lvl guardian that has not assigned any traits yet.

I purchased Guildwars 2 because of GW1. My mentality (and I know I am not alone) is I don't want to be obligated to pay a monthly subscription to play a game. I want to be able to play for 10 days in a month and feel that I am still getting my moneys worth from the game. Having said that, I have spent $120 through paypal to buy gems to upgrade my storage in bank and on my toons and to add toon slots. I am not above voluntarily spending money. The whole purpose to this post was to vent how frustrated I am at essentially being forced to pay for something. I wouldn't be griping if I had the option to use the waypoint for free within a zone and had to walk through the portal so I could access the next zons waypoints for free.

There players that don't rely on the TP to play the game. There will always be farmers that "work" the TP and cause prices to become "uncomfortable" to some people. Economies in games will always be broken to someone.

Krazzar, on 22 November 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

GW1's economy was broken within one year therefore the premise of your argument is invalid.

Guildwars 1's economy was never broken. It didn't have an an economy to break. there was no store to speak of. It was all about real trade. "you will give me what I want to get what I have". Plain and simple. I...we liked that. We liked the direct trade window. It was fair. This system is fair too. And I might add at this point that it is not lost on me that NOT having a direct trade window essentially forces me to deal through the TP thus entangling the money game with the adventure MMO further. I don't mind that because if I can't afford anything, I don't go to the TP.

I play with what I have.

Does anyone see my point yet? The whole money game does not effect my experience in the game except for these two currency bleeds. It's not that I can't pay them, it's more about being forced to play a second game, at the same time that I don't want to play.

Anet could easily get rid of these and impose a similar tax somewhere else that lets the amazing game they are creating stand on its own.

If I am at an event ant let loose my Barrage, but get downed before any of the foes die and/or get defeated before the champion gets taken out... I don't get any drops. I am fine with that. When soloing a veteran and die I have to run back and start from scratch. These are punishment enough without adding a 3s fine to us (1.5 for the nearest waypoint and an armor piece that will need to be fixed sooner or later). Did I not read somewhere that Anet did away with the DP because it seemed to punitive?

I can think of 10 more ways they could tax us players without directly interfereing with game play. I am sure all you money wizzards could come up with lots more than that.

[Green]

Arquenya, on 23 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

So it's not an argument against gold sinks per se. ANet could picked a lot of alternatives that people would have accepted without problems, like having all kinds of consumables like T-stones available as gold sinks, but they didn't.
In GW2, travel fees just aren't a good game mechanism to remove gold from the game.

Fair enough

[Rhubarb Pie]

Linfang, on 23 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Yet people like myself and other who played games like the above mentioned learned to suck it up and could roll with the punches. It's sad to see how carebear games and gamers have gone soft. Sure I dont expect naked corpse runs or losing items, but even how lenient a travel and repair cost is people still find reason to complain.

I played EQ for two weeks before I decided I didn't like looting/being looted by other players. GW1 and GW2 both cater to helpful player, not cut throat players. Anet was to bring positive aspects of all the preceeding games to this cooperative MMO but managed to drag this major negative element "just because" every other game does it and the players except it. You say "suck it up". That in itself says it is a negative aspect to the game. To enjoy that part of a game you either play without anything you care about loosing (which I don't) or you are one of the looters (which I am not)

Many of us don't fit those games. this game has more than enough challenge to it without being ownd by other players. Being as looting or competing for resource nodes is not an option in this game, I am guessing the people that like that sort of thing aren't playing GW2.

My complaint is not about making the game easier by removing two trivial (forced) taxes, but about making the game more enjoyable by removing a forced tax from the adventure game and putting it where it should be... in the money game.

This morning I tried to map down to do my daily duty in Orr and didn't have enough coin in the bank or my pocket.

"Insufficient funds-You cannot go where you want to go."

I turned the game off. I will of course log back on, sell something, then proceed to do what I could have done this morning, before this stupid restriction killed my desire to play. Eventually, the time it takes for many of us to return to the game will be days, weeks or months instead of hours.

Do you think a cooperative game that has nobody actually playing the game because they either quit or are stuck in the TP buying and selling, is going to be any fun to play?

[MrCats]

To remove gold from the game without tax ArenaNet would have to implement something which you can just funnel money into without getting any material worth back out. Guild Halls could do this if they let you buy decorations or build it how you wanted it to look. For people who arn't guild leaders it could be something like a weapon or armour customisation thing whereby you collect weapons or armour and combine them to get a unique looking design. Ofcourse thees would cost you money. Just an idea.

Edited by MrCats, 23 November 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[Tiglatpilesar]

Quote

Does anyone see my point yet? The whole money game does not effect my experience in the game except for these two currency bleeds. It's not that I can't pay them, it's more about being forced to play a second game, at the same time that I don't want to pla

Exactly, it's so wierd mechanism and i am 100 % sure that it wasn't in game at the begining when and idea of  multiple way points was introduced. It's so punitive to players who are not interested in making big wads of money but to play the game casualy, those players who wants gold will have it anyway, farmers will farm and swim in golds just the same. It's discouraging players from changing zones and participating in DE.

[Rhubarb Pie]

MrCats, on 23 November 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

To remove gold from the game without tax ArenaNet would have to implement something which you can just funnel money into without getting any material worth back out. Guild Hals could do this if they let you buy decorations or build it how you wanted it to look. For people who arn't guild leaders it could be something like a weapon or armour customisation thing whereby you collect weapons or armour and combine them to get a unique looking design. Ofcourse thees would cost you money. Just an idea.

They haven't even released clothing yet. I mean beyond a few novelty items at the gem store. They should make every NPC of the same race as the players curent toon able to "talk" So you could ask them what they are wearing. Then you could have the choice of either saying you would like the same outfit on the spot and pick the outfit up at the TP or have clothing stores in major forts, villages and cities where you could be directed to after obtaining a item token from the NPC, adding a bit of a scavenger hunt feel to shopping.

There will be our residences that will need more closet space to hold these outfits and other non game-usuable items. regular parties to wear these clothes to that cost money to get into. Parties that could help with food and drink titles amoung other things. Instead of standing on 9 rings with stacks of tokens in our inventory, Sign out of the game in a bar with 10 gold in your pocket and when you sign in the next day you could have earned 30 drinks to your drunkard title.

3s for travel/armor repair? really? Annoying and unimaginative.

[AKGeo]

Rickter, on 22 November 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

paying for travel is a rather scam.  i mean, they wont give us the option of a mount (which is a one time fee) and instead decided to nickel and dime us for waypoint expenses.

i agree with you there.

armor repair is a staple amoungst many a rpg.  and it makes sense.  battle is dangerous and unfogiving.  your equipment will take damage.  at least  your equipment doesnt get damaged over simple use, only when you die in combat, so i can deal with that.

Mounts don't fit into the GW universe. With asura gate teleportation already introduced in GW1, it would be stupid not to use that technology in GW2 as the means of faster travel. And charging for the use of the asura waypoints also fits into the story...Asura always had the ambition of controlling and profiting from scientific advancements in the world. Skyrim had fast travel AND mounts...and the mounts sucked. Fast travel made the game better for those who don't care too much about running around fighting the same animals and random bandits/thieves/assassins that came along, because there really was nothing other than that and ore bodies/alchemy ingredients to even bother with. GW2 has DEs, exploration points, and numerous closely-spaced locations with interesting things to do. And if you don't like that, you have waypoints. Sure, they charge. But if you NEED to get somewhere that fast, is it likely that there's 2s worth of stuff you can do at that location to make up for it? Hell, two green drops at high levels makes up for the waypoint charge.

As for armor repairs...I will say that this is one reason for PUG frustration. Someone is in a group that is either underpowered or underskilled for the content, and keeps wiping, racking up repair costs for little perceived reward, so they leave and everyone suffers from the self-fulfilled prophecy of failure, rather than sticking through it, getting the final reward, and eating whatever cost might occur, not understanding that there's a chance of a high-priced drop from the dungeon. It's hard to get past that when you go back to the anvil and see a 10s charge waiting for you. On top of that are the gem shop repair canisters....which further promotes the idea of an unfair gold sink. Therefore, I'd like to see repair canisters or BL keys dropping more often in PVE, and/or repair costs reduced by about half. As of now I haven't had a single key drop for me in 2 months, whereas I had one per day on average for the first month, and I'm playing quite a bit more lately.

[Sandpit]

I'm not a fan of armour repair costs, but I can see it as a valid mechanic and penalty for death.

Waypoint costs however, I hate. I think they are truly damaging to the game. They disuade people from joining group events and encourage players to make a choice between slogging through time consuming non-content (aka grind) or lose cash (whoch has to be replaced through grind).

This mechanism is dreadful. It must go; I think it's possibly the worst idea ANet ever had!

[ExplosivePinata]

My personal favourite is the double whammy of pay to travel to a waypoint then also have to pay for repairs.

Repairs are nonsensical anyway and should just be removed, not because I'm a miser or low on in game cash.  They should be removed because people with the survivor title have taken such a beating that it beggars the question, why do they not have to repair armour that should be in tatters?  At least have the gold sink make sense like a medical station to repair wounds etc.

As for travel, I've said it before but making people question whether they want to spend an absurd amount to map travel to help other Guildies/Players is without question a bad idea imho.  It limits participation and grouping up.

Whats next?  1 silver everytime we post a chat message?

Edited by ExplosivePinata, 24 November 2012 - 12:53 AM.

[Kaiarra]

Repairs don't really bother me - if I died it was probably my own fault, so why shouldn't I pay for it? I'm guessing most the frustration there is from pugging dungeons? I hate playing with random PuGS, so I just don't do dungeons, hence that aspect doesn't bother me. Maybe make the dungeon repair costs lower, or something.

Waypoint costs on the other hand are annoying as hell. They could at least give us one 'free' waypoint per map and then charge us if we didn't want to run from there to somewhere else on the same map. Sure I can easily afford them but I know I'm wasting gold so generally I'll  still end up running most of the time; ruins the gameplay a bit when you feel forced to run almost everywhere (not like I'm going to run from LA to Orr more than once). At least if I was running everywhere on a cool mount I'd have something decent to look at...

AKGeo, on 23 November 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

As of now I haven't had a single key drop for me in 2 months, whereas I had one per day on average for the first month, and I'm playing quite a bit more lately.

I didn't even know they COULD drop...? I thought it was for map completions or the store only; shows how much they've dropped for me.

[pumpkin pie]

we should put up an effort to come up with a map of how to travel with minimum cost.

[ExplosivePinata]

pumpkin pie, on 24 November 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

we should put up an effort to come up with a map of how to travel with minimum cost.

We should be told who the hell we are paying for map travel.  If it was British Rail I could understand the prices but who are my silver funding?

[Trei]

See the thing is I don't think the costs are unreasonable at all.

I have on average 3g on me at any one so I'm not exactly rich.
I use map travel discriminately but I do use it often. It is a convenience I find to be worthwhile paying for.

For me, the cost is not high enough to discourage frequent use, it is just nice to make it worthwhile if I choose to walk.
I feel that is a very important consideration.

This is not solely about the necessity of gold sinks.

[DuskWolf]

Kaiarra, on 24 November 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

Repairs don't really bother me - if I died it was probably my own fault, so why shouldn't I pay for it?

I hate this reasoning. I bloody hate it. I hate it!

It's the illogical nature of shikata ga nai, that basically means that if anything bad ever happens, then we should roll over and take the beating. We should allow ourselves to be kicked when we're down and never kick back. It's total apathy. It means that the person in question has absolutely no self respect.

Is a design decision detrimental to fun? In fact, does it completely fly in the face of the rule of fun? Is it something that most games journalists would speak harshly of in a single-player game? Oh well, shikata ga nai! There's nothing we can do. Let's just accept that this is the nature of things and move on. The only reasonable choice is to roll over and accept this, and if anyone is so bold as to disagree, then we will come up with fallacious reasons with which to debunk them because that's easier and lazier than facing the problem.

Shikata ga nai. Everything is fine!

I keep asking this but... why is basic self-respect so absent amongst us MMORPG players?

[Relair]

Are you guys serious? How can you complain about a few silvers which you can make back in 30 seconds from one or two junk drops/blue items. Do one DE and you get enough money from random trash to waypoint around all night.  If you don't want to pay for travel, then run - its not mandatory. If you don't want repair costs, then dont die. This game is already the easiest I've ever seen on players as pertains to a death penalty. I swear, people now would implode or curl up in the fetal position if they played earlier mmos, where you had to go find your corpse, lose xp, get debuffs, etc. on death. Not to mention still having to repair their armor.  People have such a sense of entitlement, its not some console game where you reload your save or go to a checkpoint, its a persistent world, there are consequences to your actions. So you have to pay a few silver if you die repeatedly. Wahhh. Sheesh, should ANet also come wash your car and walk your dog for you while they're at it?

Edited by Relair, 24 November 2012 - 05:23 AM.

[DuskWolf]

ExplosivePinata, on 24 November 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

Whats next?  1 silver everytime we post a chat message?

I'd love to see that. Guild Wars 2 really needs more irrational taxes. I mean, gold sinks are the best things ever. So providing a tariff on speaking is for the best. It would have so many fringe benefits - like stopping lower levelled people or those who don't grind as much from talking. And we don't like listening to them anyway! Bloody riff-raff.

To be honest, I think the game needs more gold sinks, not less! I think they should tax us for crossing zones, too. And if you can't pay the tax, you have to grind in the zone you're in until you can. Also, I think that selling items should have a 10% tax, because that'd be realistic. We're paying to our governments, scarcity exists so taxation is totally valid in a videogame! Real world economies are just like videogame ones!

Okay, I'm done being sarcastic. But these are the arguments I've been reading since this mess began. I've just been shaking my head at the lack of logic of it all.

Just so you're clear, I'm not attacking you ExplosivePinata, I'm using your brilliant point to launch off on a sarcastic rant, because I just want to make it incredibly clear just how singularly dumb this whole affair is. There's no scarcity in a videogame, real world economies are nothing like videogame economies, and there are plenty of games which have done just fine without having gold taxes. But them's the thoughts of a reasonable mind.

---New Reply---

@Relair

Not the point. Nice straw-man, though.

We're saying that it's bad design, because the gold sinks aren't necessary and go against the rule of fun. Does being taxed all the time sound like a fun activity? It isn't. It doesn't belong in a videogame. It's not fun. It's bad design that would get laughed out of a single- or multi-player game. Instead, we want more irrational gold sinks.

Some might not be able to afford it, and that would suck for them. But that's not the point. If it's just there to pad out the game and to make the game last longer artificially, which is what a gold sink does, then it doesn't belong in a good game. If GW2 has it, then GW2 is logically not a good game. It would be better without one.

A good game concentrates on fun without needing artificial methods to try and fake fun, or padding to make it feel longer just so you feel you've gotten your money's worth. (It wasn't fun, but it took up a lot of my time when I was grinding away! That must mean it's good value for money!)

I'm just so tired of arguments which clearly lack self-respect. As consumers, we deserve fun products for the money we lay down. Not products which try to induce people into believing that they might be kind of fun via artificial constraints, operant conditioning, skinnerbox models, et ctera, et cetera. Gold sinks don't do anything to make the game more fun. Opposedly, they're a tax. They make the game less fun.

If you're actively trying to make your game less fun, you're clearly doing something wrong.

---Edit---

to make a point... isn't adding lots of artificial constraints what WoW does? You pay for all sorts of different things, like using flying taxis and whatnot. How many WoW fans am I arguing with? That's kind of what I want to know. If I'm arguing with a lot of them, then I can understand. You haven't been playing games (which are fun), you've been playing WoW (which uses social engineering and various forms of conditioning to make you believe it's fun).

If you play a game, an actual game, you find that taxes aren't present. I was playing Scribblenauts Unlimited earlier. A brilliant little game. I was moving from place to place and having fun. I wasn't told at any point that I had to stop and repeat a task over and over in order to gain money. I just proceeded through the game. I didn't ever have anything taken away from me. I didn't find that I was suddenly bleeding starites or starite fragments because of ridiculous taxes.

When you play a game, you realise how ridiculous taxes are. And how detrimental to fun they are. They don't serve any purpose, they don't help the economy (if they did, Guild Wars 1 would have gold sinks, and yet it doesn't), they don't do anything other than elongate the game artificially. If you're a WoW player, you're in with the crowd that thinks an artificially elongated game is fun.

But I'm not a WoW player. I'm a gamer. I play a variety of games. And only a very tiny per centage of those (WoW-like MMOs) seem to believe they need taxes. But not even all MMOs believe they need them, GW1 doesn't have them, Champions Online/Star Trek Online doesn't have them. Any game that has a good grasp of what fun is doesn't have them.

Yet we'll continue dancing around this ridiculous argument.

And the argument of the opposition amounts to this: Guild Wars 1 should have lots of gold sinks added to it, because wtihotu being taxed for everything, it just isn't fun.

...I'm amazed that none of you have realised how nonsensical of an argument this is.

Edited by DuskWolf, 24 November 2012 - 05:47 AM.

[Trei]

You are then concerned only about your own fun.
You started the game in it's early days, with the player market at it's current stage.
Without control measures, it will be a very different market in 2013, where you and me early birds would have 1year worth of playtime to earn gold in the game.

The brand new player starting the game in November2013 will be looking at that new market with 0 gold.
Please try to consider from that aspect.

What kinda prices would you like to see in the TP as that new player?
Basic low level materials selling in terms of copper or gold?

[Gerroh]

What's that?
I'm sorry, I can't hear the complaints over the 30g+ I've amassed playing casually(and intelligently).
I must have too much money stuck in my ears from not dying every time I fight something.

[Anzuri]

Rhubarb Pie, on 22 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

In beta weekends I found this charge to severly handicap my ability to solo areas beyond starting areas. They have reduced the cost for both of these at earlier levels so, at launch, I was willing to give it a chance to grow on me. But now that I am lvl 80 it is again too much. And before you WoW players chime in and say how much more it costs in that game for these two usless expenses, I have never played any MMO but Guildwars... and I expect there is a reason for that.

I work for 8 hrs per day so I can have a house and feed my wife and kids. I love my family and enjoy my house. In a fantasy world I would pay my mortgage, put food on the table and then have the rest of my money to use for hobbies, go on vacation, drugs, hookers... whatever I decide to spend it on. But in reality I have to pay taxes, pay for gas to and from work and pay insurance on my car and my house. I also have to pay a monthly charge on natural gas and electricity in addition to what I use (I live in Canada so I can't just cut it off and not use any).

The point is I get far to much reality in real life. I have yet to find a person that says they enjoy these extra burdens placed on us players. Sure there are those that say they are use to it and have learned to manage their funds but as I play this game more, this involuntary spending of my cash is going to be what drives me back to GW1.

I have my share of usless drops and lagged events but I can easily get past those. I Don't understand how other ex-Guildwars players don't rip Anet a new one for putting so much effort into taking the best aspects of all games on the market but failing to bring along one of the greatest things about their own game and, in fact, draging such a negative function into this game simply because all the other games do it.

Paying for travel and repairing armor sucks. If it wasn't for this I would love this game. I hope people don't reply to this with ways around these chagres like the travel to Lion's Arch through the mists trick or easy places to farm where you don't die. I am against ANY charge for travel and armor repair. It really hurts those of us that like to choose what we spend our money on.

I didn't read through all the replies so its likely this has been said.

I understand how you feel, I hate them too but it is a necessary evil to remove money from the game (instead of just moving it from player to player but actually removing it) this is why you can also salvage items. so you break items down into components that can be reused instead of introducing more money into player economy by selling it to npc. This is why they also have the forge.

If you remove all of these gold sinks inflation will skyrocket and things on the tp would go to ridiculous amounts which then spiral to ppl being able to afford high end npc items like cultural armour) too easily

Protoss, on 23 November 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

1. Ascended gear AI trader that crafts ascended gear at a cost of 1 gold per piece. This gear comes in all possible stat variations, but in only one design - the starter one.
2. Remove waypoint costs, re-spec fees and armour repair fees.
3. Potentially increase the costs of crafting and/or trading post taxes.


Problem solved. Not only do we end up with a system that is better than the one we have now, it's actually a system that is in line with the game's Manifesto.

Not everyone wants ascended gear and that high of a price will deter most, nor do everyone craft or sell on tp. Gold sinks need to target people for things they do often ie travel or repair to constantly remove money from the game

Edited by Anzuri, 24 November 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[Green]

DuskWolf, on 24 November 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

I hate this reasoning. I bloody hate it. I hate it!

It's the illogical nature of shikata ga nai, that basically means that if anything bad ever happens, then we should roll over and take the beating. We should allow ourselves to be kicked when we're down and never kick back. It's total apathy. It means that the person in question has absolutely no self respect.

Is a design decision detrimental to fun? In fact, does it completely fly in the face of the rule of fun? Is it something that most games journalists would speak harshly of in a single-player game? Oh well, shikata ga nai! There's nothing we can do. Let's just accept that this is the nature of things and move on. The only reasonable choice is to roll over and accept this, and if anyone is so bold as to disagree, then we will come up with fallacious reasons with which to debunk them because that's easier and lazier than facing the problem.

Shikata ga nai. Everything is fine!

I keep asking this but... why is basic self-respect so absent amongst us MMORPG players?

I lol'd, then lol'd again.

[Ritualist]

Anzuri, on 24 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

If you remove all of these gold sinks inflation will skyrocket and things on the tp would go to ridiculous amounts which then spiral to ppl being able to afford high end npc items like cultural armour) too easily

That's a generous use of the word "skyrocket" given how this is a gold sink that a lot of us are now completely avoiding (even at the expense of shortening the game's life) and given how new gold sinks, gold sinks that target vanity, have been suggested.
Inflation WILL happen. The amazing thing is that we are dealing with a COMPLETELY artificial economy, which means we can simply make up rules that prevent, or at least lessen, the most unwanted effects of it. Sadly, I don't think the resident economist has the imagination for it.

[Anzuri]

Protoss, on 24 November 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

That's a generous use of the word "skyrocket" given how this is a gold sink that a lot of us are now completely avoiding (even at the expense of shortening the game's life) and given how new gold sinks, gold sinks that target vanity, have been suggested.
Inflation WILL happen. The amazing thing is that we are dealing with a COMPLETELY artificial economy, which means we can simply make up rules that prevent, or at least lessen, the most unwanted effects of it. Sadly, I don't think the resident economist has the imagination for it.

Yeah I like to deal with extremes . Very true though it will happen but they seem to be on the ball so far with lessening it. Like increasing the drop rate of precursors to bring them down a bit. I imagine they are reading through all of this though to get ideas from the community

[Cowwie]

I only have a issue with paying for repairs in wvw i feel players should not have to give up the fight because of high repair bills, in the pve world i have absolutely no problem with it, nor for that matter travel fees, as a casual player ive amassed enough $$ to pay my way easily.

[Anemone]

You need money sinks, every mmo needs them. Otherwise people will just hoard money, making prices grow for everything as gold and silver will devolve in worth making things too pricy for new players to get anything.

That and all those costs such as waypoints and armor repairs are already low, I haven't had to worry about them since lvl 40?

And its a good incentive to not die so much/ run around on foot longer. (as for mounts-every class has a speed boosting skills, use them instead to move faster)

[Sandpit]

I think one of the reasons why the waypoing cost is so high is that there is a fixed fee (even if you are standing right next to the wp) and an amount added for distance. It's the fixed fee that really burns the hgh level players and disuades people from travelling within a zone to join events.

The problem is that these gold sinks are changing player behaviour so that they are having less fun. Why would a game maker design something to be deliberately less fun? That's just plain stupid. It would hardly me more daft if they introduced a 1c fee for every hundred stpes you walked to stop people avoiding paying the waypoint fee. (Fixed an exploit; some players were avoiding waypoint costs by walking to their destination).

[Tiglatpilesar]

Quote

You need money sinks, every mmo needs them. Otherwise people will just hoard money, making prices grow for everything as gold and silver will devolve in worth making things too pricy for new players to get anything.

What exactly get too price for new players ? If like in GW1 max stat armor and weapons are avaliable from vendors at stable and not too price cost ? First i don't belive that removing gold sinks would cause gigantic infaltion in the first place, second there are gold sinks and glold sinks, charging for waypoints and armor repairs is ridiculous as would be charging for switching between alts or using elite skill but i bet someone would also argue with this argument that this kind of gold sinks are necessary. Second i belive infaltion is in mmorpg unlike in real world is actually is a very good thing and certainly is not hurting new players. The only "hurt" players are those who acumulated hoards of money and feel that not ingame money per se lost value due to infaltion but time theu used playing the game to get it. Seriously though these kind of people has better rethink their life then cry that others get tons of money in 2 months while they have to farm for a year and certainly they should not be cater too.

[RecentlyTaken]

Prices for both wp and armor repair are pretty low.......

Make sure you just port back to LA via heart of the mist. You only gotta pay 1-way really. And if your really cheap, you use an Asuran gate to get to the closest starting city of where your going to reduce the WP expense.

At least in GW2, travel is instantaneous; no waiting for ships and crap that might come only once every 5 mins, or watching yourself fly to your destination for 10 minutes...

With the WP system, there's basically no need for mounts (outside of vanity purposes), since you can always just wp directly there.

[RedStar]

Tiglatpilesar, on 24 November 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

What exactly get too price for new players ? If like in GW1 max stat armor and weapons are avaliable from vendors at stable and not too price cost ?

In GW1 armor sets are crafted. And to get those materials you either find/salvage them or buy them from traders at a variable price depending on available stock.
And even after 6 years, for some 1k armor, the materials are more expensive than the intial 1k.

[Ritualist]

RedStar, on 24 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

In GW1 armor sets are crafted. And to get those materials you either find/salvage them or buy them from traders at a variable price depending on available stock.
And even after 6 years, for some 1k armor, the materials are more expensive than the intial 1k.

If I remember correctly, there should be a fairly cheap set available for each and every class - if, on the other hand, you want a specific 1k skin, you are potentially paying the vanity-fee.
Still, your argument is pretty good - this absolutely is something that should be looked at if A.Net were to incorporate this system into GW2. But, this alone doesn't make GW1 system useless nor worse than GW2's.

Edited by Protoss, 24 November 2012 - 02:40 PM.