68 replies to this topic

[Eon Lilu]

Glass cannon builds suck in dungeons, and yes it annoys the hell out of me when thieves and warriors come into the dungeon and die / downed 5 times ....it also makes path 2 of cof impossible to complete if a few of the members are dieing to fast.

You need atleast some survivability in dungeons and especially fractals.

Pve world you can glass cannon all you like. Dungeons, bring some vitality / toughness and some defensive ability's.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 23 November 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[Xunlai Agent]

Glass cannon is the worse spec and packign Frenzy is just adding insult to injury. I would have left the group pretty early on.

[DarkGanni]

3-5 times in whole dungeon isn't much but as a general rule in my book is that warriors don't have much of a place in dungeons (no offense).

Personally I always accept any profession in dungeons but I don't consider the warrior as a good damage dealer in dungeons, for most bosses you have to play with rifle or bow which is a straight laugh in the face.

Warriors may do great damage but if they're downed constantly they're no better than a ranged class. Also many melee enemies they either knockback or knockdown.

Warrior has been my main in GW1 but here it feels like any other class can do it better.

Just my opinion

[supacc]

yes, i would be annoyed.  landing those two extra hits (for what, 5k extra damage?) is not worth the time it takes for your party to res you.  the best damage output right now is to get as many 100b hits in as you can before they telegraph an attack, and whirlwind you way out, bladetrail, and rush back in.  if you are counting on all your dps to be from 100b, you are doing it wrong.

and as a wise mmo veteran once said: "you can't *in dps if you're dead".

edit:  also, another note:  don't play so selfishly by bringing frenzy.  you will increase your whole team's dps if you bring something useful like FGJ.  you aren't pigeonholed to play pure dps or pure support, so you better find a middleground.

Edited by supacc, 24 November 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[Sithicus Dias]

matsif, on 23 November 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

I always facepalm when a dual axe/GS warrior with no vitality or toughness gets in a party with me.  had 2 in the same run of AC last night and both of them died 5 times at the queen spider, to which I double facepalmed and proceeded to leave the group.

I don't think I've ever had a repair bill on my warrior in a dungeon so far running a hammer with banner regen or shout heals.  Whenever I see full signets on a warrior in my party I highly question their ability to do anything worthwhile other than "lol 100b spam olololol big numbers"

Yeah, not having Toughness from Knights/Clerics etc, is a pretty untenable position. Ranged attackers can partially escape this if they are excellent with mobility, but since Warriors will get hit in the face with damaging skills, to not have some kind of defense is very poor indeed.

And yes, Signet Warrior = no team utility, and those people should be avoided... Deep Strike isn't even that good at Level 80.

[Warmaster Bacon]

Not really, if they go down like 3 times at each boss/section then ya I would get mad.

[francron]

Although you can demonstrate how well you're doing your job as DPS. your other teamates won't know and what they can see is how you re down serveral times and they are sacrificing their DPS / supporting role and picking you up, or even risking the whole team when there's 1 man down and cannot hold the formation.

[Falfyrel]

I get a lot of groups like that and it's always annoying since half of the time the Warrior is running full Berserker's, is failing to dodge out of the way of very powerful attacks, and is running Leeroy-style into the midst of a huge mob of enemies.

If the Warriors in the group are getting downed or dying significantly more often than most or all other members, it often sets off warning signals for me that either they're a YOLO warrior packing  a Greatsword and full Berserker's (and they ALWAYS use a greatsword, never something like axe/axe), or (rarely) they just don't know when to back off and use longbow/rifle.

But 3-5 downs? That's normal and as long as it keeps pace with the group average, nothing to worry over. But if they're the only group member to go down in the entire dungeon and go down 3-5 times, that's a bit more worrisome. Same goes for any other class.

Edited by Falfyrel, 28 November 2012 - 12:22 AM.

[Drekor]

Going glass cannon depends heavily on your group. I frequently go full glass cannon on my guardian and the only real downside is occasionally I have to switch to staff for empower to fill up half my HP bar but that also gives huge might stacks so either way damage doesn't stop.

[MisfitAndy]

3 to 5 times isn't so bad in a dungeon, as others have said.  Now, if you are dying more than the cloth armor wearers, that is sad.  As an elementalist, I go down from time to time because my HP pool is much smaller than other classes and I have less margin for error.  If I saw a warrior, who is supposed to have much more HP and armor than myself, downed more than I am, it might be questionable.

The worst thing is going down and seeing the DPS warrior not lending a hand and reviving you.  When I see people go out of their way not to revive me I do the same for them.

Honestly, though, as long as the dungeon is completed who cares if people go down from time to time.  It happens, that is why every class can do in-combat rezzes.  In a dungeon you are a team and you support everyone else, it isn't your time to shine with your final blow from 100b, because honestly nobody even knows how much damage you did but yourself (I'm pretty sure that there isn't a damage meter, and if there is I couldn't care less about installing it).  There is also much more to bring to a group than just raw DPS, and if you think that only raw DPS is the way to go, you are playing wrong.

[Sithicus Dias]

MisfitAndy, on 28 November 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

  If I saw a warrior, who is supposed to have much more HP and armor than myself, downed more than I am, it might be questionable.

That's slightly subjective though, since melee can be incredibly rough, leading to Warriors (almost by default) taking some aggro merely by being next to the mob. Ele's and other ranged characters can keep a much better eye on incoming damage from a distance, whereas Warriors (and other melee classes) might not get any warning.

But you're right about completing the dungeon, if it's done it's done. And yes, everyone can rez everyone, and the only reason for not rushing over and reviving someone immediately is your ability to determine if you can take a mob down within a few seconds and instead Rally your ally via a kill instead.

Edited by Sithicus Dias, 28 November 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[dawdler]

Sithicus Dias, on 28 November 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

That's slightly subjective though, since melee can be incredibly rough, leading to Warriors (almost by default) taking some aggro merely by being next to the mob. Ele's and other ranged characters can keep a much better eye on incoming damage from a distance, whereas Warriors (and other melee classes) might not get any warning.

But wasnt that the point? Sure Warriors might not get any warning and be in the hotzone more often than ranged classes, but if they are there you expect them to have the armour and HP to handle it.

That's all there is too it really. What OTHERS expect you to be as a Warrior. A glass cannon build isnt really a true Warrior - its a barbarian. You can have less armour and HP than the cloth wearing half-naked Elementalist and at the same time have so much metal on you that you look like a super magnet gone wrong in a frying pan factory. Its deceptive and wrong to give the impression of being a Warrior when you're really not.

It would be great if we actually had some decent looking barbarian armour (ie all damage sets) rather than plate. Loin cloths and nipple clamps for everyone!

[raspberry jam]

tmxkn1, on 22 November 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Last night, I did a COF path 1 as a semi-glass cannon warrior: roughly 2600 armor + 18000 HP in the dungeon. I was downed for about 5 times throughout the run because of some carelessness and insistence on finishing the hundred blades.

All I thought was I can't loose the 100 blades' last two hits, which deal huge amount of damage, (maybe) over 15 times than normal sword swings. I thought finishing the last two hits would be worth even if I downed and have someone to heal me up. Maybe this idea wasn't so wise.

I was downed because of 100 blades twice and my colleagues seemed to be annoyed. I gave up finishing 100 blades in the rest of the run but was downed because of some carelessness. I don't know if it was my carelessness or it was my semi-glasscannon build. I was targeted and hit by the boss, nearly in downed state (about 2000hp left, one hit and down), I dodged out for the next two hits from boss, and expecting any healing because the only healing skill I have is in its 25s CD, but only the ranger in my group place a ground healing, both guardian and ele did nothing. The boss targeted me with kind of fire, I downed very soon. OK, they started to laugh at me and I chose not answering.

I could have swapped to rifle that did less than half of output comparing to a greatsword. I could have put survival slot skills rather than frenzy and for great justice. I could have kept myself from being targeted by boss. I will do all that with my supportive ele and ranger, but as a warrior, I chose to fight in melee range, do as much output as I can and finish the run as fast as possible.

Do you really wish to see a warrior in easy dungeon having a supportive build or having 3200 armor with survival slot skills while guardian and ele are doing output?

I need your opinions. If you don't like a warrior like me, I would never use warrior for dungeon without my friends any more.

My opinion is that your healer sucks.

Oh wait.

No, just kidding, it's natural to get downed. That's why we can revive people in this game.

[Lunacy Polish]

Just change it up a little.  I went and got myself a shield for PvE.  I change out my elite and traits and sometimes utilities.   Viola instance dungeon capable warrior.

[MisfitAndy]

Sithicus Dias, on 28 November 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

That's slightly subjective though, since melee can be incredibly rough, leading to Warriors (almost by default) taking some aggro merely by being next to the mob. Ele's and other ranged characters can keep a much better eye on incoming damage from a distance, whereas Warriors (and other melee classes) might not get any warning.

But you're right about completing the dungeon, if it's done it's done. And yes, everyone can rez everyone, and the only reason for not rushing over and reviving someone immediately is your ability to determine if you can take a mob down within a few seconds and instead Rally your ally via a kill instead.

It would be slightly subjective if I wasn't a dagger/dagger elementalist, who is just as in danger as any warrior.  Well, except I have less hp, and less armor.  If I down less than that warrior, that is where I begin to question their ability to play their class.  If you are playing in a dungeon, you should either trait/gear for vitality or toughness, preferably both.  To neglect both of these attributes as a melee ranged character you are doing a disservice to your group, imho.

But yes, what is really important is whether the content is completed or not.  Especially if everyone is able to successfully rally or raise a downed player, who cares if there are a few downs.

[Siin]

So, you were doing your job, which is DPS, and got downed few times, which happens to melee DPS in this game. You had ranger, guardian and ele in the group and they were laughing at you, while not doing their jobs - support (scratch ranger, not sure what job they have in groups...). Gz on finishing and sry to hear you had to carry others through. That happens all too often.

Unfortunately, warriors are expected to never go down, melee bosses, kill everything and lets not forget - support your party too. People in PUGs get annoyed when warriors go down, but why don't they try to do same job then and see how they manage? They get annoyed at warrior going down under boss' focus, but then they die alone vs 1 silver mob and qq "I can't kill it alone".

[wxkinrc]

thats why most of  the warriors are using an axe.
but i  100% agree with you and i am raging when see warrios/thiefs playing  on dungeons with bows (range weapons)... You are doing it wrong!

[I've got your kisses]

I run CoF path 1 in 8~9 minutes. When we are farming it that fast every second counts. I'm expecting GS warriors to go down a few times but 5 times is excessive; you aren't doing damage when you are taking dirt naps. I normally have a list of people looking to be in my farm groups so if I feel the warrior is not performing I'll just get another.

The warriors that I prefer to run with use axe/warhorn.

[Xype]

I run sword/warhorn & rifle on my warrior. Shouts to support/heal my team and traited for condition removal with my warhorn.
Full rampager's gear for lots of damage and bleeds. I only switch to rifle when my HP is low.

The only place in CoF where I go down is on path 2 when we're kiting. If your warrior keeps going down, he's playing his class wrong.

Edited by Xype, 29 November 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[MrForz]

Arrogance all over, it's the only thing irritating me. I'm a build collector, I have hybrid, full tank, full crit %, full condition armor sets.

So, I'm teamed with a conditionmancer and an elementalist. I switch my Engi to glass canon rifle and Grenadier to avoid conflicting with the scholars. Nothing can go wrong when throwing nades at 1500 range + a sprinkle of support. I get to mention that full DPS engies are a rarity in this game, somehow understandable, the team warrior gets to mock me telling me that he can't hear me so much his DPS is higher than mine. Was like... Yeah, okay.

Boy, even when switching to Healing Turret, the bugged Super Elixir, Supply Crate + the Ele's sustain we couldn't prevent him to get downed every single time some action was going on.

That was for the little story. I only expect ANYONE to KNOW what they're doing, I don't care if they're glass canon or not, for my part I can always adapt on the fly to what we're severly lacking. Going down happens, I have an Elixir for that case and pressing a button is not a death sentence. I'm just expecting pulls and engages from the right person and careful actions based on roles.

[Murmer]

The main issue is that when people hear so much about warriors being so wonderful, they switch... without actually knowing anything but a signet build. Just slap a bunch of signets and press 1 and 2 forever. To many people do this mindlessly with no thought to teams or utility to bring to the team. I'd rather have an engineer who is knowledgeable about how to play his build (any build), rather then a signet warrior who is boastful as heck and gets downed all the time.

Edited by Murmer, 01 December 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[Keepy]

Well i dont mind that warrior gets downed, im a guardian and i have 3.2k armor and 20k+ HP i use shield and i have a lot of buffs. My teams/friends all of them are glass cannon - a elementalist, necromancer, mesmer and a engineer. Im sometimes if one of them is not online we get 1 pug and im already used to tank and support, im also so used to see them fall easy cause they are full power and no vit/tough... so yeah i know game is not supposed to be played like this but how can you convince people to do their part and make a balanced build if they dont want to?.

MY highest crit is 2.8k damage, i would like to have more but i cant because i already tried changing my build to a balance build and all my teammates kept dying, which sucks. Im always so stressed during dungeon runs because im the meat shield and if i get downed im so embarrassed...

Edited by Keepy, 01 December 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[coglin]

Glass cannon with high damage out put or not, you do no damage when downed.

[zeth006]

matsif, on 23 November 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

I always facepalm when a dual axe/GS warrior with no vitality or toughness gets in a party with me.  had 2 in the same run of AC last night and both of them died 5 times at the queen spider, to which I double facepalmed and proceeded to leave the group.

I don't think I've ever had a repair bill on my warrior in a dungeon so far running a hammer with banner regen or shout heals.  Whenever I see full signets on a warrior in my party I highly question their ability to do anything worthwhile other than "lol 100b spam olololol big numbers"

I think I may be one of those signet-heavy wars...

But I always make a good faith effort to dish out damage and back off and switch to long-range when I get down to 1/3 health.

That being said, I've been holding off on trying out hammer builds. Think I might see what it's like.

Edited by zeth006, 05 December 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[Bloggi]

It's hardly ever an annoyance for me personally, it's not as if I'm the one stuck with the repair bill. If anything, I'm embarrassed if I go down, and make every effort to minimize this.

And we shouldn't forget that dungeon runs are supposed to be about teamwork. It doesn't matter how 'tanky' we spec, I do not expect anybody to stay in the frontline and tank ad-nauseum, and even as a cloth class I would gladly take some aggro if my ally is about to die and has to make a run for it. And obviously, if we play support, then do a proper job. Support your team. Heal. Boon with protection, fury, might, apply CC etc. Regardless of build or profession, when safe to do so, rez...it only takes a few seconds. Some folk just get so excited in combat that they don't notice their frontliner is down, and all they can do is run around like headless chooks, auto-attacking at max range.

More crucial is that a teammate knows what to do and when to do it. This last bit is more tricky and running with PUGs is sometimes a little frustrating because of this...a reasonably well coordinated team makes such a big difference to a dungeon run. I'm sure at least some of us can recall cases where a three person team could mop things up painlessly (ie. face-roll easy) compared to a full team that has to wipe once or twice before everybody gets the picture.

[zeth006]

Xekk, on 05 December 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

It's hardly ever an annoyance for me personally, it's not as if I'm the one stuck with the repair bill. If anything, I'm embarrassed if I go down, and make every effort to minimize this.

And we shouldn't forget that dungeon runs are supposed to be about teamwork. It doesn't matter how 'tanky' we spec, I do not expect anybody to stay in the frontline and tank ad-nauseum, and even as a cloth class I would gladly take some aggro if my ally is about to die and has to make a run for it. And obviously, if we play support, then do a proper job. Support your team. Heal. Boon with protection, fury, might, apply CC etc. Regardless of build or profession, when safe to do so, rez...it only takes a few seconds. Some folk just get so excited in combat that they don't notice their frontliner is down, and all they can do is run around like headless chooks, auto-attacking at max range.

More crucial is that a teammate knows what to do and when to do it. This last bit is more tricky and running with PUGs is sometimes a little frustrating because of this...a reasonably well coordinated team makes such a big difference to a dungeon run. I'm sure at least some of us can recall cases where a three person team could mop things up painlessly (ie. face-roll easy) compared to a full team that has to wipe once or twice before everybody gets the picture.

The difference is often day and night. There are good teams that I can roll through FoTM and specific dungeons no problem Then there are others that cause steam to come out of my ears.

One team I ran CoF with last night was....really bad. I was the lone warrior on the team and grabbing a disproportionately high amount of aggro as always. I normally don't have problems with dungeons like CoF . When things are great, I seldom get downed let alone die except during the path with the kite run. But when I noticed my teammates tossing aside opportunities I'd created in drawing their aggro and getting mowed down in 2-3 seconds by regular monster groups, I almost left. Come to think of it, I would've probably saved myself the stress and extra time we burned just to finish

[dawdler]

zeth006, on 05 December 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

One team I ran CoF with last night was....really bad. I was the lone warrior on the team and grabbing a disproportionately high amount of aggro as always. I normally don't have problems with dungeons like CoF . When things are great, I seldom get downed let alone die except during the path with the kite run. But when I noticed my teammates tossing aside opportunities I'd created in drawing their aggro and getting mowed down in 2-3 seconds by regular monster groups, I almost left. Come to think of it, I would've probably saved myself the stress and extra time we burned just to finish

Yes... Well a team of 1 melee and 4 ranged isnt very balanced.

I would still be annoyed if a Warrior keep going down, but to be fair sometimes there is nothing you can do. Last night I did a TA exp pug. And I went down. Like, alot. I had aggro in every single engagement. Bosses I aggroed 90% of the time. And the ranged teammates, what did they do? They sure as hell didnt exploit it. In one particular scene where there dropped like 20 spiders from the ceiling, all aggroed me and chain-stunned me for like half a minute. I was literally standing in a field of spiders. Did fire rain from the sky? No. Did arrows tear them apart? No. Was there any berserkers or warden flailing about? Not a single one. No AoE at all. Lovely. Just lovely.

[ben911993]

Xype, on 29 November 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

I run sword/warhorn & rifle on my warrior. Shouts to support/heal my team and traited for condition removal with my warhorn.
Full rampager's gear for lots of damage and bleeds. I only switch to rifle when my HP is low.

The only place in CoF where I go down is on path 2 when we're kiting. If your warrior keeps going down, he's playing his class wrong.

Just curious, what do you do about defense in terms of healing and staying alive? I've been looking into running a build like this, and I've settled on using Galrath's Armor for the cond/prec/tou with crests of the rabid, along with banner regen, and cleric's jewelry. I feel it's lacking a little in damage, but without the healing and toughness I feel like I'd be torn down unless I'm in constant motion and always kiting. Should I switch to shouts and runes of the soldier?

[CepaCepa]

Whether if something is annoying to the group depends not only on what the person was doing, but rather what his attitude is and what is the general atmosphere in the group. In a frustrated group, mistakes draw blames and tolerance is limited. If the player is either loud or uncompromising yet always making fatal mistakes, that may trigger some complaints as well. In general, I don't mind humble players even if they're as glass cannon as they can be, in fact being humble WHILE being a glass cannon at the same time does say something about the player's general ability I believe.

I've been playing glass cannon of every profession (I also have alternative defensive/support/balanced builds/sets, but each have a glass cannon set, even two for some of them). I'd say first, in my opinion, warriors are not the best choices for glass cannons. Definitely doable, but some other professions just feels "made for glass cannons" since so many skills synergize well with a glass cannon play style. Going glass cannon means you'd want to maximize damage, which means you'd want to stay in melee as much as you can. But warriors as a profession do not have as many evasions and/or tricks that can allow you to dps AND survive at the same time, so too often glass cannon warriors die easier than other cannons even though they've got the most hp and toughness out of all glass cannon specs.

Elementalists and thieves, I find, are not the best PURE glass cannons either. Not because that they don't have tricks and evasion skills, they do, and they have lots, but their hp pool is simply way too small and armor way too thin that they'd die in 2 hits from a none-elite mob and/or even near death from burning/bleeding. At least some vitality is needed, and typically those are taken from traits since acrobatics and water are both very good trait lines. Professions such as mesmers can go pure glass cannon and retain much of their survivability, between evasions, clones attracting mob attention, feedback/nullfield, the mesmer is able to survive for quite long WHILE doing constant high damage.

Another thing that I found is that when you're in down state, requiring your group members to rez you means you're causing the whole group damage loss, and that is of course more damage loss than your last 2 bits of 100B. Unlike rangers or mesmers who can both quickly rally from down state due to phantasms and pets dealing high damage (F1-F4 works during down state, which means ranger can switch pet and mesmer can shatter), most other professions needs to rely on team mates to revive. Someone in downed state and a full group trying to rez is a very vulnerable state for the group, typically you'd see several people downed trying to rez one person. Also, that elementalist may have to blow both Mist Form and Arcane Shield to tank the damage while rezzing you, that glass cannon engineer may have used Elixir S early to save you or threw Elixir R revive circle on you when he'd otherwise save it for himself. The ranger may send the pet to rez you but that is of course significant dps loss for him, and the mesmer, in order to rez you, blew up all 3 of his 10K+ hitting phantasms so that he can evade the red circles under you. Necro can throw a circle on the ground and rez you if he anticipate you being downed but since necro's utility slots are where lots of his damage comes from, you're costing him a lot of dps too. Suddenly because they were trying to save you, several group members in your team just blew all their defensive CDs that can otherwise save themselves, is it worth it? It is definitely worth it to blow CDs to save you, a vital member of the team. But if you do that intentionally for the last 2 bits of 100B, not only is it not worth it, I'd even say you're demanding too much from your team mates such that it borders rudeness, ESPECIALLY for pug groups where people's roles aren't as clearly defined.

As for the elementalist and guardian not healing you, you're overestimating the healing that these professions can do. Before the evasive arcana nerf? The ele can bring you up from 1000 to 10000 in 2 seconds. But now after the nerf, you'd be lucky to get 2-4K healing from him if he's in staff, he really can't do much else by himself. Guardians, too, you can't possibly hope for them to shout heal you to full when you're at 2000 hp, again you'll be lucky to get 2-4K IF you're standing right beside them when you need heals. Really in that situation your best healing comes from a water field (and the ranger's healing spring is hands down the best water field in game) and chain blast finishers. If you've got a short bow thief in your group, he may be porting over and immediately spamming #2 on you and you'd be healed to at least half health. But if not, then you as a warrior has the next most blast finishers (If you're going GS + rifle and carry no other blast finishers at all, you need to know what you're missing out), and you're supposed to blast in the water field yourself. I play support ele and guardian, I know there are LOTS of ways that we can provide healing, but there is such a thing called CD and proximity and when someone suddenly drops from 100% to 10% health and needs a big heal immediately, there's simply a high chance that you won't have it ready to deploy. Our boons are strong, protection lasts long and regen heals for lots, but those won't help you at 10% health. Before EA nerf, if you're in my team and you didn't get 1 shotted and you ran out with 10% health, I can GUARANTEE that you'd live, and within 5 seconds you'll be back at 100% health no matter where you are and what you're doing. Not any more, now you've gotta at least put some effort into making yourself live, for example bring a few blast finishers to use with my water field, because I may have used mine on others and they're not always available. Trust me, I'd like to be able to single handedly save someone from the brink of death over and over again whenever I want, but in the current state, there are limitations; and instead of demanding direct healing from your support members you should at least make some minimal effort to active make use of what they can provide.

Now I wouldn't say change your spec, you should play what you find to be fun. But I'd say if you keep going glass cannon, the last 2 bits of 100B isn't worth downed state. Causing that mesmer to lose ONE attack on ONE of his iWarlock is already more damage loss than the last 2 bits of 100B. Causing the grenadier engineer 2+ seconds to rez you is already more damage loss than the last 2 bits of 100B. If you're able to pull it off, definitely, after all a glass cannon is supposed to do damage. But your priority should still be survival. An alternative is to bring a weapon set that has lots of blast finishers or defensive abilities (such as longbow, this way you can still do dps from ranged when range is required, and having support abilities and a short CD blast finisher) or maybe put on a banner for blast finisher + stats instead of full signets. Yes you'd do less damage in longbow compared to rifle, of course, and especially if you're taking advantage of weapon swap. But I'd say an offensive weapon set + defensive weapon set is always a good concept for any glass cannons.

Edited by CepaCepa, 07 December 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[Xype]

ben911993, on 06 December 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

Just curious, what do you do about defense in terms of healing and staying alive? I've been looking into running a build like this, and I've settled on using Galrath's Armor for the cond/prec/tou with crests of the rabid, along with banner regen, and cleric's jewelry. I feel it's lacking a little in damage, but without the healing and toughness I feel like I'd be torn down unless I'm in constant motion and always kiting. Should I switch to shouts and runes of the soldier?

Sorry, didn't check this thread in a while. I personally love all the condition removal I have with Runes of The Soldier and Warhorn. I run full rampagers, so damage is really not a problem. With Rampager's you don't heal for a lot, but every little heal is nice of course. I never really kite, like I said, only when things really get hot, I switch to my rifle till I regained some hp. It just comes down to smart dodging.