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Will you be annoyed if your Warrior group member downed 3-5 times in a dungeon?


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#61 Brizna

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 06:59 PM

Anyone going down is bad, heavy class going down is probably the worst case. That said I hate more warriors who abuse the rifle, sure it's a solid weapon with good damage when you consider it isn't ranged, but loooooooooong ranged. And if you compare rifle to elementalist spells just from a single target damage perspective eles are put to to shame, that said while the warrior is siting at 1200 range using the rifle he is not using his armor, the ele is using his or would be if she had more than a few layers of cloth that barely cover the chest, that is a waste of the warrior's armor and the ele's damage/control who is trying to get out of harm's way instead of using the serious AoE CC/damage she could be casting.

As I said I hate abusing it, rifle is a good weapon when used properly and in the right place.

#62 dawdler

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:26 PM

View PostBrizna, on 10 December 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Anyone going down is bad, heavy class going down is probably the worst case. That said I hate more warriors who abuse the rifle, sure it's a solid weapon with good damage when you consider it isn't ranged, but loooooooooong ranged. And if you compare rifle to elementalist spells just from a single target damage perspective eles are put to to shame, that said while the warrior is siting at 1200 range using the rifle he is not using his armor, the ele is using his or would be if she had more than a few layers of cloth that barely cover the chest, that is a waste of the warrior's armor and the ele's damage/control who is trying to get out of harm's way instead of using the serious AoE CC/damage she could be casting.

As I said I hate abusing it, rifle is a good weapon when used properly and in the right place.
I do not believe that is technically correct. The AI certainly seem to react to high toughness - even when I use a rifle my Warrior has a tendancy to instantly pull aggro. Today I encountered a group of 4-5 players fighting the champion Karka, all seemingly ranged dps builds. They had taken him down to about 70% and he was dropping fast, so they had clearly dealt some damage. I opened up with my rifle. The stupid Karka was on me like I was his best new friend.

But maybe the Karka was just f**king with me because of course on the opposite ends, many times it doesnt even help if you stand in front of the mob with your heavy armour and melee weapon while literally inviting it to kill you - it will go for the glass cannon elementalist behind you and completely ignore everything else.

Edited by dawdler, 10 December 2012 - 08:27 PM.


#63 Sword Hammer Axe

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:16 PM

View Postdawdler, on 10 December 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

I do not believe that is technically correct. The AI certainly seem to react to high toughness - even when I use a rifle my Warrior has a tendancy to instantly pull aggro. Today I encountered a group of 4-5 players fighting the champion Karka, all seemingly ranged dps builds. They had taken him down to about 70% and he was dropping fast, so they had clearly dealt some damage. I opened up with my rifle. The stupid Karka was on me like I was his best new friend.

But maybe the Karka was just f**king with me because of course on the opposite ends, many times it doesnt even help if you stand in front of the mob with your heavy armour and melee weapon while literally inviting it to kill you - it will go for the glass cannon elementalist behind you and completely ignore everything else.

Yeah, but then again, everyone reacts the same way when they're being specifically targeted by the mobs. You just don't notice when you DON'T get targeted, is all.

#64 Brizna

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:39 AM

I should have specified I was talking mostly about situations where most damage is from melee foes. If you are a warrior and a foe is firing at a friend there is little you can do that others can't do just as well or even better, but if a mele enemy is chasing an ele runing around like a beheaded chicken then yes, you should be there and try to cover your friend, not back there DPSing it.

But also there is more to tanking than just having the dps coming your way, tanking is also the art of having the enemy mobs gather at your location and keep them there so the rest of the team can use all the AoE skills and specially the AoE dots that abound in this game effectively, a cloth class can't do that in dungeons, that requires heavy armor and control skills.

#65 dawdler

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

View PostBrizna, on 11 December 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

I should have specified I was talking mostly about situations where most damage is from melee foes. If you are a warrior and a foe is firing at a friend there is little you can do that others can't do just as well or even better, but if a mele enemy is chasing an ele runing around like a beheaded chicken then yes, you should be there and try to cover your friend, not back there DPSing it.

But also there is more to tanking than just having the dps coming your way, tanking is also the art of having the enemy mobs gather at your location and keep them there so the rest of the team can use all the AoE skills and specially the AoE dots that abound in this game effectively, a cloth class can't do that in dungeons, that requires heavy armor and control skills.
All true, but GW2 is too random for the "art of tanking". If a mob is hellbent on attacking that cloth class, heavy armour cannot control it just for the sake of its heavy armour. Any class can control it (Engineer with a rifle is all about control, as an example). Even heavy classes can control it at a range. Warrior rifle has a very usefull slow.

A mace/sheild Warrior (ie one of the most tanky builds there is) doesnt even have a way to "gather the mobs", other than running in first. No pulls, no aggro (not that any class has), no nothing.

Edited by dawdler, 11 December 2012 - 04:44 PM.


#66 Brizna

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:21 PM

"GW2 is too random for the "art of tanking"

Which correctly implies two things:
That you can't perfectly control aggro in this game.
But that it isn't just random so you can influence it to some point so you should.

The holly trinity is there just diluted, but it is still there, it has its roots on class archetypes. Simply put a warrior will tend to be more sturdy than other classes and so it is more fit for certain party roles. Assuming since the game allegedly avoids the holly trinity you can play anyway you see fit without consequences is a mistake. You can certainly do a "glass canon" warrior but it will always be less glassy than a glass canon ele. Conversely you can do a tanky ele but it will be a laugh of a tank compared to a tank warrior.

Mace/shield (warrior) is a poorly designed weapon set no wonder almost no one bothers with it you do low damage and you can't control ....at most it is usefull as a secondary weapon set you switch to after you do some form of control with another.

#67 Coren

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:14 PM

Any profession who dies 3-5 times should look at their build again. Warrior or ele, heavy or light armor doesn't matter.

#68 dawdler

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

View PostBrizna, on 12 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Mace/shield (warrior) is a poorly designed weapon set no wonder almost no one bothers with it you do low damage and you can't control ....at most it is usefull as a secondary weapon set you switch to after you do some form of control with another.
Low damage compared to what? My Warrior build (ie tanky support) can kill things about as fast with a mace as with a greatsword (axe wins every time). Yes, I timed against Orr mobs, lol. On top of that, the mace/sheild combo has 3 interrupts, two blocks (combine with reflect on block and laugh at Karkas) and an auto-attack that apply AoE weakness with 100% uptime. Granted, other weapons (ie axe and greatsword, I dont even know who uses swords) are much more effective the further you get towards the glass cannon side of builds.

If you think the mace/sheild is a poorly designed weapon set, you really need to play a tanky Warrior more.

Edited by dawdler, 12 December 2012 - 04:29 PM.


#69 noblepaladin

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:10 PM

GS is great for mobility and tagging mobs in general PvE, but not that great for dungeons. Other weapons like Axes do more DPS over the long run. Also, you have to think about team DPS, not just your own. Something like For Great Justice increases your damage by a little but, but when you multiply that over a party of 5, that is a ton of damage. Also, power and condition damage scales linearly, so it is worth giving buffs to support characters.




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